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| Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby welcomed female priests at St Paul's Cathedral |
Today's march of ordained women from their picnic in Westminster to St Paul's Cathedral was no walk of witness to Christ. It was a triumphal march celebrating what has become an issue of so called equal rights for women. The Anglican Communion has no authority to ordain women other than that which Provinces have taken upon themselves, thus setting Anglicans apart from the rest of the Holy Catholic Church.
Archbishop Welby, who had been permitted to Deacon at the women's celebratory Eucharist, said "In 20 years we have come a long way". Indeed we have. Such a long way that men and women of conscience have to beg to be considered faithful Anglicans in this increasingly women's church. ++Welby added, "How did we not see that women and men are equally icons, witnesses, vessels of Christ for the world?" - What?!! - There appears to be little hope for true Anglicanism outside Africa!
Archbishop Welby, who had been permitted to Deacon at the women's celebratory Eucharist, said "In 20 years we have come a long way". Indeed we have. Such a long way that men and women of conscience have to beg to be considered faithful Anglicans in this increasingly women's church. ++Welby added, "How did we not see that women and men are equally icons, witnesses, vessels of Christ for the world?" - What?!! - There appears to be little hope for true Anglicanism outside Africa!
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| How to misapply the obvious! |
Postscript
Read also: Why are we celebrating 20 years of the ordination of women? From Susie Leafe, Director of Reform
Read also: Why are we celebrating 20 years of the ordination of women? From Susie Leafe, Director of Reform
"We did not see that women and men are equal icons" ...
ReplyDeleteI have to assume that ++ Welby uses the term 'equal' to mean indistinguishable representation . Thus ++ Welby's statement is illogical. Men and women are not the same and thus they cannot be said to be an equal representation .
Christ was made man-that is in human form- but made as a male ,and the Holy Catholic Church has not violated the tradition of male representation. If we profess to be part of the One Holy Catholic Church (as we do so in the Creed), then the Anglican Church is in error to ordain women to represent Christ at the altar.
Neither can any of us, whether male or female, be equal witnesses,for we all have differing ways in which we witness to God : it is imperative that we do witness in an individual way in response to our separate calling.
We do not have a 'right' to anything .
We are here for God's purpose , and God is powerless without our hands. It is thus required of us that we do not abuse the free will that God has given us ,and also that we seek to discern God's own will and not confuse the Will of God with the issue of self - fulfilling human rights.
God have mercy on the CofE.
ReplyDeleteNo more anonymous comments on this thread please. See Introduction in right hand column.
DeleteThe Archbishop was "permiitted to Deacon" the Eucharist?!
ReplyDeleteI understand the misguided but well-intentioned gesture by the principal person concerned, but really this alone says a great deal about the understanding of those present regarding the role of a bishop, and even more so the Archbishop and Primate of All England, but also of who really exercises authority in the Church and how.
Did people notice that the service took place after a celebratory picnic? If it was (or purported to be) the Eucharist this seems to have been an act of grave irreverence. Even the RCs fast for an hour before Communion...
ReplyDeleteThe ‘Archbishop was permitted to Deacon the Eucharist’ – that goes to show how the take over is almost complete. Perhaps at the thirtieth anniversary celebrations the Archbishop will be permitted to a Sidesman at the door of the cathedral handing out the hymn books?
ReplyDeleteIt is entirely likely that at the thirtieth anniversary celebrations both Archbishops will be women - and male clergy will be as rare as barn owls.
ReplyDeleteAs will pew-sitters and open Churches.
DeleteThe CofE has every right to decide how to conduct its affairs, including who is eligible for ordination. Plenty of other churches (eg methodists, baptists, pentecostals) were ordaining women long before the CofE started. So the CofE was not doing something that wasn't already happening elsewhere in the global church. And plenty of theologians take the view that restricting ordination to men is contrary to Scripture.
ReplyDeleteBut not the one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church as per the Creed.
DeleteWhich of your 'theologians' were at the last supper?
I believe every gathering of christians is part of the one holy catholic and apostolic church, no matter what label they attach to themselves. And I'm not sure what you meant by your question about the last supper.
DeleteIan - hello -
Delete1). the Church of England conducts its affairs by means of democratic synodical government , which means that profoundly important theological decisions are being made by an elected synod ,some of whom have had no theological training of perhaps no other sort of training.
2).Ministers 'ordained' in the Methodist,Baptist or Pentecostal Churches are not ordained within the Apostolic succession, and are thus not ordained with the same sacramental authority, and such ministers are not priests as is understood in the Church of England (or indeed the Church in Wales).
Simple soul, as I'm sure you know, motions in synod (such as women's ordination) have to be passed by all three houses, and the members of two of those houses certainly do all have theological training. So even if something was proposed by the untrained laity, the clergy and bishops would have to be persuaded of its merits or it would fail.
DeleteAnd, being a simple soul myself, I can't find any scriptural basis for the concepts of "apostolic succession", "sacramental authority", or a christian priesthood. Your comment here seems to imply that non-comformist clergy are somehow second-class, which is incredibly disrespectful, not just to the clergy, but to the millions of people in those churches.
To declare that one is part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church requires that one believes the teaching and accepts the doctrine of the Church.
ReplyDeleteAn analogy is that you cannot say you belong to any 'organisation' unless you are prepared to accept the rules ;to endure it is not 'pick and mix'.
Forgive my ignorance, which branch of the Church must one believe the teaching and doctrine of? And must one accept all the doctrine or just certain parts of it?
DeleteIan- the simple answer is that you accept the rules and organisation of whichever church you choose to commit yourself.
ReplyDeleteIn your original posting on May 6 ,you commented that the Methodists Baptists and Pentecostal churches had been ordaining women for a long time. My point in reply is that the Non-conformist churches have 'rules' which are not accepted by the Church in Wales (at the moment! ) or indeed the Holy Catholic Church ,to which the Church in Wales professes to a part.
The Church in Wales subscribes to the threefold ministry of Bishop,Priest and Deacon and to the Apostolic succession,( that is ministry derived from the Apostles by succession ).Thus,I trust you can see that ministers ordained in the non- conformist churches are 'ministerial leaders' but are not priests in the Holy Catholic Church.
The following is taken from the Church in Wales website:
"Formal statements of faith.
The Constitution -
The Church in Wales is a fellowship of dioceses within the Holy Catholic Church, constituted as a Province of the Anglican Communion. It maintains the threefold order of bishops, priests and deacons which it has received, and acknowledges as its supreme authority in matters of faith the Holy Scriptures as interpreted in the Catholic Creeds and the historic Anglican formularies, that is, the Thirty Nine Articles of Religion, the Book of Common Prayer and the Ordering of Bishops, Priests and Deacons as published in 1662. "
Very interesting thread. Simple soul or maybe Ancient Briton, outside of the governing body, which voted in this farce, is there a way that those who believe in the sanctity of the apostolic succession can have their say on this most profound of issues? Surely the Church in Wales cannot simply disregard the views of what must be a considerable minority (possibly even a majority of its parishioners)?. Here in West Wales, we had a "consultation" on the Harries report but nothing was said on women bishops. We can't just lay down. There must be something we can do online?
ReplyDeleteWelcome Melchizedek.
DeleteThere were diocesan consultations on the Code of Practice, three in fact in the Diocese of St Davids, see http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/event/code-of-practice-meeting-st-davids-diocese/
My understanding is that the overwhelming desire was a return to the sacramental and pastoral assurance provided by the Provincial Assistant Bishop until his retirement when Barry and the Bench sitters decided to abandon the position having achieved their objective of women priests.
Similar provision appeared to be offered to get the women bishops legislation through but the Archdeacon of Llandaff did her best to scupper that when she was allowed to speak at Governing Body to undo what she and the Rector of Radyr appeared to promise.
A scheme similar to that offered by The Society in England would no doubt be appreciated in Wales but organisation is lacking. Hence the powers to be must be rubbing their hands in delight since the so-called 'dissenters' continue to support financially a system that is increasingly separated from the Apostolic Church.
One possibility is to strike where it hurts, that is financially. Giving is voluntary. All that is needed is for someone to organise an opt-out so that their giving is not to be used for the Parish Share. The Church in Wales is already in a mess financially but Barry and the Bench sitters simply ask for more.
Time for action?