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Saturday, 9 July 2022

Mutual flourishing

Former archbishop of Wales Barry Morgan in his empty cathedral

The Church of England is taking steps to safeguard 'mutual flourishing', a concept dropped by the  bench of bishops of the Church in Wales at the earliest opportunity after securing the vote to allow women bishops.  

From the Church Times - Twelve Church of England people of "varying backgrounds" have been appointed members of the Standing Commission on the House of Bishops’ Declaration and the Five Guiding Principles:

"The setting up of the Commission was recommended by the Implementation and Dialogue Group (IDG), established in 2018 in response to the Independent Reviewer’s report of matters surrounding the nomination — and subsequent withdrawal — of the Rt Revd Philip North as Bishop of Sheffield (News, 9 February 2018). It was tasked with reviewing how the House of Bishops’ Declaration and the Five Guiding Principles — part of the settlement that made possible the admission of women to the episcopate — are understood, implemented, and received in the Church.

"Last year, the General Synod took note of a report from the IDG on whether the Five Guiding Principles, established in 2014 to enable those unable to receive the ministry of female bishops or priests to flourish within the Church’s life and structures, were still “fit for purpose” (News, 16 July 2021).

"The Church House statement says: “Members have been chosen by the House of Bishops, in consultation with the Prolocutors of the House of Clergy and the Chair and Vice Chair of the House of Laity, because of their experience and varying backgrounds.

"The membership has been carefully balanced to ensure there is fair representation of theological viewpoints and a commitment from all to the Five Guiding Principles and mutual flourishing."

While becoming increasingly secularised, as has the Church in Wales, to their credit the Church of England has remained true to its promise to enable those unable to receive the ministry of female bishops or priests to flourish within the Church’s life and structures.

The Church in Wales has not despite implied promises. 

From their Code of Practice: "Since the Church in Wales continues to share the historic episcopate with other Churches, including other Churches of the Anglican Communion, the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox Churches, which continue to ordain only men as priests or bishops, the Bench of Bishops acknowledges that this decision on ministry and gender is set within a broader process of discernment and reception within the Anglican Communion and the whole Church of God.

"Within the Church in Wales, those who on grounds of theological conviction and conscience are unable to receive the sacramental ministry of women bishops or priests continue to be within the spectrum of teaching and tradition of the Anglican Communion. The Church in Wales therefore remains committed to enabling all its members to flourish within its life and structures as accepted and valued. Appropriate provision for them will be made in a way intended to maintain the highest possible degree of communion and contributes to mutual flourishing across the whole Church in Wales."

The Code implied provision for mutual flourishing but it soon became clear that the bishops had no intention of honouring their commitment, frustrating mutual flourishing at every turn.

Sir William Fittall the Independent Reviewer wrote of the situation in England, "To expect someone whose theological conviction does not enable him to receive the sacramental ministry of women routinely to turn up to a celebration of Holy Communion when he cannot discover in advance whether he will be able to receive Holy Communion seems to me to be asking too much."

That is exactly what archbishop Barry Morgan did. From a previous entry  Welsh Primate abandons twin integrity:
"In his newly created role of Acting Dean of his own Cathedral, the dictatorial Archbishop of Wales and Bishop of Llandaff, Dr Barry Morgan, has decreed that the Cathedral Office is not to publish the names of officiants at each of the Cathedral services. The intention is to put a further barrier in the way of those who, for theological reasons, are uncomfortable with a woman presiding at the altar. Rather than being able to plan ahead to avoid unfortunate pastoral situations, it would appear that the only way of knowing who is celebrating the Eucharist at Llandaff is to see who appears at the entrance procession."

The Church in Wales prides itself on being inclusive - but on their own terms. It does not extend to making provision for faithful Anglicans whose only desire is to keep the faith with appropriate sacramental and pastoral provision.

Rather than expand The Kingdom the bench chose secularism for the Church in Wales, as the emptying pews testify.

71 comments:

  1. Barry no-mates.
    Looking more and more like Star Wars' Senator Palpatine/The Emperor.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lux Et Veritas10 July 2022 at 16:05

      In the Llandaft script from Anumpti Productions, some of his former Lay Clerks and choral Scholars had him down as Hannibal "the cannibal" Lecter.

      Delete
    2. Sith Lord Morgan the Malignant of Llys Ego; described variously over the years as two-faced back-stabbing under-handed power-hungry self-important publicity-seeking cruise-loving money-grabbing Dean-losing allthingsqueer-loving church-wrecking champagne-socialist golfing hypocrite imp of Satan.

      No-one's perfect.

      Delete
    3. That sounds like an old advert for Pepsi-Cola 😂😂

      Delete
    4. @DP
      Don't forget dirt-digging rule-bending law-breaking daughter-consulting (Llandaffchester) chroniclers-hunting report blocking layclerk-sacking Pilate-backing skeleton-hiding
      Organ Appeal accounts-concealing CatholicCurate-ostracising payoff-dealing gagging clause-employing truth-denying b'stard.

      Delete
    5. The Golfer, the Dark Lord, His --Darkness, His --Irrelevance, His --Disgrace, the grand Mufti of all the faiths, bully boy, byzantine, the worm in the apple, it's as if there are no words bad enough that are good enough to describe him.

      Delete
    6. The habit of dipping his hands into the collection plate to top up the unaudited "discretionary" funds should not be omitted.

      Delete
  2. To coin a phrase - "Never,never trust this ex-archbishop!"
    Ex Llandaff parishioner

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Never never never trust a Bishop10 July 2022 at 19:37

      Rest assured, no-one with a brain ever did!

      Delete
    2. Cheering for Janet31 July 2022 at 08:26

      Janet Henderson certainly didn't.

      Delete
    3. Not for more than nine weeks anyway!

      Delete
  3. As Nadine Dorries is going to step down from Front Line Politics, I think she'd be admirably suited for the recently advertised position for Dean of Llandaff.
    Unison Off

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Has the post and job description been advertised yet or are we facing another stitch-up without any competitive interviewing process?

      Delete
    2. https://www.llandaffcathedral.org.uk/category/news/

      All the details are published here, including a glib reference from Caiaphas to recent "turbulence" - who does she think she's kidding?
      Read it and weep.
      Interviews to take place during first week of September.
      Here's hoping no-one is mug enough to apply.

      Delete
    3. Athelstan Riley12 July 2022 at 16:45

      The advert was in last Friday's Church Times.

      I had understood that the Bishop of Llandaff wished to undertake an extensive process of consultation, not a hurried one. The job description (of which I will not attempt an analysis here as I imagine it will be the focus of a separate thread before too long?) seems to have been compiled quite quickly. One wonders how far-reaching the consultation was in the time available. Presumably, there are people closer to the Chapter and Cathedral congregation who could shed light on that? Was anyone expecting to be consulted but was not?

      I will simply say, at this stage, that a contact of mine in the Church of England said he had dug out the job description for the decanal vacancy in Salisbury in 2005 and that I might see some similarities. When it arrives, I will report back.

      Delete
    4. Caiaphas must go!12 July 2022 at 18:28

      And which mug applied for that job?
      🤣 🤣 🤣

      Delete
    5. Seb from Sarum13 July 2022 at 17:21

      I think it might be more pertinent to ask 'which self-serving, self-promoting person engineered her way into that job'?

      After insisting (I kid you not) that the Bishop of Salisbury at the time put her name on the preferment list for an English deanery, and after making no progress (probably because no other bishop wanted her anywhere near his cathedral or senior staff), the Deanery of Sarum falls vacant. The senior appointments secretaries in both Downing Street and Lambeth tell the aforementioned Bishop that, after pressing so strongly for her to be appointed to other deaneries, he now has the perfect opportunity for her to be his Dean. Not what the Bishop had in mind, I can tell you.

      In a further twist, she gets wind of this (I think the Lord Lieutenant was sufficiently indescreet to tell her that a reference had been requested), and leaked the likelihood of her appointment to a journalist, thus backing the Bishop and the Crown into a corner. She was probably savvy enough to realise that the Bishop would be moving heaven and hell to prevent her appointment.

      The rest, as they say, is history. Except, for people in Llandaff, it's probably all too immediate.

      Delete
    6. Caiaphas must go!13 July 2022 at 18:44

      Juno's biggest problem is that she claims to be a self-made woman but she's also in love with her creator.

      Delete
    7. Seb your entry did not quite make sense. Can you be more explicit. Are you saying that Juno is a failed candidate for bishoprics in England despite putting herself forward for several? It would make sense.

      Llandaff

      Delete
    8. That's as well known as Peggy the Pilate failing a dozen times to be given an Archdeaconry in England until Morgan the Malignant of Llys Ego took pity and forced her on Bonaparte and Llandaff.

      Delete
    9. Seb from Sarum14 July 2022 at 09:36

      Apologies if I was too opaque. I was referring to the shenanigans by which she engineered her way into the Deanery of Salisbury. She had been Canon Treasurer and, realising that this might be as far as she was likely to go, started piling pressure on the Bishop of Salisbury at the time to get her a deanery. When other deaneries passed her by, the Bishop of Salisbury was told by the men in suits at Downing Street and Lambeth Palace that he had the ideal opportunity to appoint the candidate he had been supporting so enthusiasticall for other deaneries a long way from Salisbury!

      Delete
    10. Sounds as though the Bishop of Salisbury to whom you refer was utterly spineless on more than one occasion.
      How many other people of greater talent and ability were shoved to one side to make way for Caiaphas?
      There's more than one way of sabotaging any possibility of "mutual" flourishing.

      Delete
  4. The only person Barry Morgan gives a sh#t about is himself.
    No 1 first, No 1 second and if there's anything left over then it's No 1 third.
    A complete and utter b'stard.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Instinct after reading AB's opening report was one of despair at yet another time-wasteful, costly, explosion of hot air and waffle instrumented by some appointed lunatics to examine the lunatic activities of their predecessors 20 years ago. A Standing Committee of the House of Bishops Declaration etc. and Five Guiding Principles. God forbid!!! And really, who cares any long whether ++Morgan was Attila the Hun or Rasputin incarnated. Focus ought to be on the current archbishop.

    But perhaps the whole debate has been overtaken by today's Daily Telegraph report of the General Synod's official response to a written question asked by a Royal Navy Anglican chaplain asking for contextual clarification of 'women'. And now we know: "There is no official definition of women" replies the Bishop for Europe the Rt Rev. Robert (or Roberta) Innes. So there we have it. A woman can't be defined. Who appoints these idiots? What hope is there that the Anglican church can regain any credibility with anyone looking in from outside the madhouse?

    How welcome it would have been to have Rudyard Kipling appointed to the Bench of Bishops or General Synod. He at least was able to define women, especially the sorts of women appointed to roles of Deans and Bishops. His: 'The Female of the Species ...' ought to be compulsory reading to all except gynocologists who might be able to draw pictures for Bishop Innes.

    And how outrageous that the Church of England and/or Church-in-Wales should set themselves up to 'define' what makes a woman. The growing majority of clergy are themselves of confused sexual identity or blinkered by their homosexuality.

    The Telegraph's piece is worth a read ... if only to confirm that we're being led by buffoons.

    Ad Clerum

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There's been only buffoons on the plank in Wales for literally decades. As discussed on previous threads, the rot started with Glyn Simon and it has been downhill ever since.
      Anyone that doesn't want to be led by a donkey only has to follow what so many have already done, walk out and stop giving.

      Delete
    2. If there is no definition of women, how do they define men?
      Is it any wonder they can't define the sacrament of marriage accurately any more?
      Bewildered.

      Delete
    3. Lux Et Veritas11 July 2022 at 20:37

      Do you have link to the article please AC?

      Delete
    4. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-62183869

      Here's the next problem for the Church of England.
      Do they have an official definition of a mother?
      Somehow I doubt it and then the problem will be how they define Mary's position and role in the stories they peddle to the gullible.

      Delete
  6. I found it through www.bing.search typing in church of england definition of women daily telegraph. By this morning, there are dozens of other media reports of the same bizarre report. Maybe Google as well as Bing? Hope this helps LEV.

    Ad Clerum

    ReplyDelete
  7. Merely one of the outcomes of the typical political correctness of the Grand Mufti Morgan.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-61983584

    ReplyDelete
  8. Bangor escapee13 July 2022 at 05:53

    Sadly few English cathedrals publish who is presiding now post covid. Even Blackburn where a flying bishop, Burnley, is a residential canon does not publish. Pretty shoddy really!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quite deliberate.
      They're doing everything possible to get rid of traditional anglo catholics but their hard cash is still wanted of course.

      Delete
  9. Menai Straight14 July 2022 at 11:06

    From what I have seen of matters the only thing that has flourished is the tiny minority gay cabal. Absolutely everything else has withered away from neglect.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm afraid I have to disagree with you MS.
      The other group that have flourished are the priestesses and bishopettes.

      Delete
    2. Menai Straight14 July 2022 at 13:17

      Agreed Enoch.
      But since so many of them are lesbians I believe I catered for the majority of them.

      Delete
  10. Oh 'Menai Straight', I wouldn't describe the gay cabal as the 'tiny minority' and certainly not in your Diocese of Bangor. Its spreading faster than Japanese Knotweed; and like Knotweed, once its rooted it's damn'd difficult to eradicate ... short of using SEMTEX 'H' which they would probably transpose in anagram to some new meaning within LGBTQ. I leave it to 'TP' to take up the challenge!!!

    Old Bill

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Menai Straight14 July 2022 at 12:37

      I thought it was obvious I referred to them being a tiny minority at the outset and before they flourished, becoming so prevalent as the result of preferential treatment.

      Delete
    2. I decline the childish challenge if you don't mind Old Bill - just another of your facile posts.

      You protest too much about LGBTQ+ issues so I suspect you're one of those many closeted homophobes who hang about cathedral precincts in the hope of picking up a bit of fun. I see you.

      TP

      Delete
    3. So Cathedralling is the new Cottaging.

      There's the problem. Right there.

      Delete
  11. Past and present particle of 'is the' and 'were the' confused me. But from across the Menai Straits were're on the same hymnsheet. I was tempted to say they're breeding like rabbits, but of course the poor darlings can't. Where they think the Adam and Eve biblical 'fairy' story of how babies are made is beyond them. Left to the two camps (no pun intended) of Homosexuals and Lesbians then there would be no future reproduction of humans so who cares about Global Warming or World Famine.
    Old Bill

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What are you trying to achieve with this comment - it's just pure homophobia from start to finish. Are you proud of that? What place in you does this comment come from? Why the hate?

      TP

      Delete
    2. This dyslexic believes in Dog14 July 2022 at 21:11

      I see no hate but only facts.
      Homosexuals don't usually reproduce.
      You're playing the victim card again.

      Delete
    3. Menai Straight14 July 2022 at 22:02

      Not breeding so much. More like buzzards attracted to carrion. The stink of the rotting corpse of the Church seems irresistible.

      Delete
  12. Was it only a couple of weeks ago 'TP' that AB gave you his final warning regarding assertions and defamations you wildly direct to co-subscribers. His final warning before he might shut you down? Be very careful in your 'posts' when directed against me. Two, at least, fellow correspondents know already who I am and while you might cower behind your anonymity, I am sure abusiveness of yours might prove awkward to AB if you continue to personalise your vendom towards individuals.
    Qui scribit bis legit.
    Old Bill

    ReplyDelete
  13. Cuts both ways Old Bill - you ought to think twice (perhaps even thrice) about the things you post.

    TP

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And you mught try thinking once.

      Delete
  14. Menai Straight15 July 2022 at 09:37

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/vicar-henry-hoover-sex-church-b2123488.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0bnrrHrReuHlzdxZ-TOABcfhzDh9kQ0UIhk7ELkty6eT4tijnZl0WtixU#Echobox=1657863589

    The perverts are everywhere, they walk among us!

    ReplyDelete
  15. At what point does satire / wordplay become hate speech? A line tested by the comments on this site generally, but I think probably crossed by this thread through mention of explosives, be they plastic or otherwise.

    Interestingly, to me at least, SEMTEX-H is so called because it was generally used for the 'explosive hardening' of certain metals... I presume it is Old Bill's weapon of choice because that is what happens to him (and probably some of his fellow contributors) at the thought of what all those naughty gay boys are getting up to in the cathedral!

    Scarlet

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Time to draw a line. Back to topic please.

      Delete
    2. Menai Straight15 July 2022 at 14:01

      As the topic is "mutual flourishing" I rather think these comments provide the perfect example of why it hasn't occurred. The six tactics you recently listed as used by the LGBTQIA are demonstrated here in microcosm from "TP" and "Scarlet".

      Delete
  16. Before closing the book on latest (ill-informed) comments two quick points please AB. SEMTEX is not named for any metallurgical effects it might or might not have on explosion. SEMTEX is named from its place of 'invention', Semtin in Czechoslovakia, and the factory where it was produced: Explosia.a.s. It was not, as asserted, used in the hardening of metals but rather (before it became explosive of choice of terrorists) in quarry blasting ... granite not steel. Shan't bore you with more. As for Scarlet who begins by denouncing 'hate speech' and then dives headlong into it, its a sick-bag rather than explosive which would be my weapon of choice.
    Over and Out.
    Old Bill

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps Scarlet is Anna Morrell?
      She also doesn't check her facts before spouting off.

      Delete
  17. How clever of Cymru'r Groes to connect Scarlet with Ms Anna Morrell and not just because of the latter's reputation for not checking her facts. Film buffs will of course know that like Ms. Morrell, the Scarlet Pimpernal wove his deviousness during the French "Reign of Terror" (France) whereas Ms Morrell's reign of terror is the modern period between Barry Morgan and Andy Pants. Both pretty terrible but not terrifying.

    But my clever niece working as a TV/Film animation producer in Germany reminds me of another Scarlet of massive comic-book following and perhaps more appropriate to Anna Scarlet Morrell: Scarlet Witch. She - like the C-in-W press office - was infamous for an ability to alter probabilities and realities. She was known as the 'powerful sorceress'.

    Only difference is that the Scarlet Witch came to fame by altering realities ... Ms Morrell doesn't fool anyone; not even comic book editors.

    Well done Cymru'r Groes for your keen connection. Scarlet: maybe a new listing in the C-in-W Directory of Names.

    Ad Clerum

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anna Morrell is one of the most professional, insightful and intelligent people I know. It disheartens me to read this blog and see her good name attacked. I wonder if AB can apply a simple rule before posting entries 'if it's personal then do not publish'.

      Integrity

      Delete
    2. It disheartens so many that she works for such a disreputable employer.

      Bewildered

      Delete
    3. There is a difficult line to be drawn when someone is part of the system but again, enough please.

      Delete
  18. You have your wish Integrity, your comment has not been published because you mention the name you do not want to see mentioned. I see nothing spiteful or vindictive in defending the faith unlike my critics who regularly attack commentators for attempting to do the same.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I quite agree with Integrity. Many of the posts on this thread have tipped the balance. My own included. Let's draw a line shall we.

      Old Bill

      Delete
  19. Well, well, well. Seems we've moved into a whole new depths of deviousness AB. The above comment signed off in my name 'Old Bill' was MOST CERTAINLY NOT sent by me!! I've been too busy darting in and out of the house to catch up on Wales RFU and grab some sunshine. Perhaps, AB, you'd search back to the e.mail originator of the 'purporting' Old Bill and expose the culprit. Impersonating a ******** officer is an offence!!! Culprit blog was posted at 16:45 today. I look forward to your forensic analysis of the scammer.
    The Real Old Bill

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Apologies - just a bit of fun this end. Weather getting to me.

      the new old Bill

      Delete
    2. The living proof there are more horses ars*s in the world than horses.

      Delete
  20. Vouch for the above AB. Old Bill uses my WiFi and hasn't sent any messages this afternoon. Whodunnit?????

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This dyslexic believes in Dog16 July 2022 at 18:50

      It's obviously "TP", they still haven't learned how to use a question mark.
      ?

      Delete
    2. One can only conclude "Integrity" knows nothing about the meaning of integrity.

      Delete
  21. Well, to the 'new' Old Bill pleading affects of sun-stroke as mitigation for his/her childishness, it's NOT fun. What is threatened is the veracity (I decline use of the word Integrity) of AB's energies creating this blogsite umpteen years ago, the debates he encourages and the excellent value of such a platform ... for good or bad.

    To hi-jack a subscriber's nom-de-plume in hope of fooling others - and even the gatekeeper AB himself - simply illustrates how AB might well have been right in his previous theme of 'Affirming the Truth' whereby the other 'camp' have a programme of disruptive cadres including:
    (a) confuse the neutralise the church and members, (b) slander/defamation (c) bait and switch (to hide their true nature) and (d) intimidation. We ought not, I suggest, point fingers at 'TP' (bless him) or Integrity or other suspects. AB is the only person who can identify the source of his/her user-name and, perhaps 'out' him/her for future
    He/she has achieved nothing as the entry was spotted and reported. But its a sad warning to us that this otherwise excellent blog-site has been compromised by an idiot and that if future years of reading-enjoyment - and contribution - have value, AB himself should perhaps act to quash it. There are school-girly 'troll' sites for fantasists and wannabe's that 'New' Old Bill can join if that's his low mentality.
    New Old Bill thinks it a bit of fun. No smile on my face ... I was watching the defeat of Wales v. Boks which depressed me more than this stupidity.

    Old Bill (The Genuine one)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Menai Straight16 July 2022 at 21:34

      Take no notice.
      There's only one Old Bill.

      Delete
    2. Are there no depths to which the LGBTQIA cabal will not stoop in pursuit of their deviant agenda?

      Delete
    3. Dear Mr. AB: Unless you have perhaps put your editorship onto Auto-Pilot is it not time, perhaps, to call out this Beano-readers (or perhaps Dandy) and prohibit the silly nonsense of 'identity theft' degrading your otherwise lively site.

      If you can't, then all the enjoyment over umpteen years is lost and I'm out.

      Old Bill

      Delete
    4. That's a valid question.

      Delete
  22. Comments are closed unless strictly on topic.

    ReplyDelete