You are here . on the pale blue dot


'Anonymous' comments are not published.
Comments for publication should be 'on topic' and not involve third parties please.
If pseudonyms are linked to commercial sites the comments will be removed as spam.

Tuesday, 2 May 2017

Your new home?


Christ Church, Rhosybol, on sale for £45,000                                                       Source: Daily Post


This is just one of twelve redundant churches currently offered for sale by the Representative Body of the Church in Wales following closure for worship which could be your new home. How many more to follow?

Worship often took place twice and more in bigger churches on Sundays, many with a daily Eucharist during the week. That was before they became the means of spreading political correctness, misapplying notions of gender equality to the priesthood, substituting equality for theology.

With few exceptions Church attendance continues to fall year by year. Ironically, in one of the largest ever surveys of peoples' attitudes towards the role and influence of churches in local communities published in Christian Today, more than a third of UK adults surveyed said that they would "campaign to keep their nearest church from closing because it provides 'vital' services to its local community." Without supporting members, who would maintain them?

MAE Cymru supporters. Source Church in Wales
 In former years five of the bishops of the Church in Wales held Oxford Firsts in Theology. The bishop designate of Llandaff studied social sciences. When interviewed by BBC TV News she was very much into gender parity so regardless of merit no doubt there will be an explosion of female appointments in Llandaff along with St Davids where the first woman bishop was appointed. Bishop Penberthy is a strong supporter of MAE Cymru, an organisation spreading feminism in the Church Wales under the guise of equality but only as they see it.

In response to my previous entry some commentators became exercised over a suitable spiritual home for disillusioned Anglicans. Sadly, as the declining numbers indicate in all but a few churches, most Christians do not look for an alternative. They give up in despair and stay home. Robbed of its mystery and otherness, church-going has for many become another weekly social occasion while others turn up at Easter and/or Christmas expecting their church to be there for them.

The obsession with gender politics has been a disaster. It has spread from the acceptance of the ordination of women to demands for acceptance of just about every sexual permutation including same sex marriage, the red line for many Anglicans.

Woe betide anyone who dares to hold a contrary opinion or to question the basis of different beliefs. Witness the Tory MP forced to stand down after a sixteen year old student and LGBT rights campaigner did not like the answer to her question after she asked him if he was planning on attending the Isle of Wight's first ever pride event.

Shades of Germaine Greer who was pilloried for expressing her personal opinion that she did not think post-operative transgender men are women, an opinion shared by experts.

Devout Christian Tim Farron the leader of the Liberal Democrat party was hounded until he gave a politically correct answer when asked if he thought that homosexuality was a sin. He had no support from the Church of England.

The first Church of England vicar to marry his same-sex partner has announced his resignation as a parish priest complaining that the CofE is 'institutionally homophobic'. He claimed that he and other gay and lesbian clergy were 'barely tolerated'.

That is an odd claim given the experience of remaining churchgoers, a claim which also contradicts the experience of the Rev Sally Hitchiner who told viewers of the BBC Breakfast programme on 30 April while discussing the marriage of Pippa Middleton that she was to "marry" her same sex partner next month.

Many, particularly younger, people today simply shrug their shoulders and say, So what? It doesn't affect me. But it does. As churches close some are converted into mosques while new Islamic centres are being built to accommodate the growing number of Muslims resulting from immigration and higher birth rates. Mohammed already tops the list of most popular baby boy names in England and Wales.

Islam is not tolerant of homosexuality. Woman count for less than men. It is ironic, then, that the politics which have split the Church will be unacceptable to the predominant faith group when Islam becomes the largest religion in the world by 2070.

If church leaders spent as much time exposing the ideology that is stamping out Christianity in its birthplace as they do on gender politics and affirming Islam there would be less need for GAFCON to send a missionary bishop to our shores to speak for traditional marriage.

Meanwhile in New Zealand a transgender weightlifter is causing controversy. Olympic Weightlifting NZ high performance manager Simon Kent described Hubbard's performance as 'magnificent'. "This is such a new issue for society to have a conversation about," said Kent, of the transgender question. "It really challenges how people respond to it - it's not something that is openly discussed and talked about." [My emphasis - ED.]

Transgender athlete Laurel Hubbard  Source: NZ Herald Photo: Doug Sherring

47 comments:

  1. The ground gained by Islam will parallel the the way in which women's ordination has grown, because the teaching was half- hearted,even from those priests who subscribed to the work of Credo Cymru.
    I wonder how many priests chose to explain their understanding of the priesthood from the pulpit on a Sunday morning?
    I was an active member of Credo Cymru and I was frequently told when attempting to engage in conversation about the ordination issue "I don't know much about it really".

    "Don't mention the war "

    ReplyDelete
  2. You have hit the target yet again SS. My own experience was of the "I don't see why not" response. The blame for this lies squarely upon the shoulders of the Bishops, the vast majority of whom abandoned their teaching role. The ordination of women is based upon Episcopal dereliction of duty.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Thanks AB - that could well be the venue for the 'little gay church' some contributors to this site have encouraged me to set up. I think once we pink-pounders got out hands on that redundant church we could make it into a thing of beauty; tasteful and with style. Whilst we're at it I think I might brush up one my Polari so that we can take over from where the guys (and gals) of Westcott left off. Of course, we would have to re-dedicate the church to St. Bona-Venture - naughty!

    ReplyDelete
  4. North of the Dyfi3 May 2017 at 09:26

    This is a perfect snapshot of what is happening on Ynys Mon as Andy Pandy tries to placate the opposition while planning more church closures than his hated predecessor, Barry the Golfer. Next Sunday, you will not be able to attend Anglican worship ANYWHERE on Anglesey. This is because Andy Pandy has ordered that all churches close down and gather for a festive jamboree in a school hall in Llangefni. And there was me thinking that his is what non-conformist chapels did in August, when everyone clears off to Brittany after the Eisteddfod. Interestingly, the preacher is the Vicar of Baghdad - a sign, perhaps, of the level of opposition our beloved (not!) episcopal leader is expecting.

    Meanwhile, anyone who is not a 'member of the club' who wants to receive the sacraments in their local parish church will be locked-out. It's just like John Evelyn's account of Christmas during the Commonwealth. It's also a damning indictment on Andy Pandy's understanding of Anglican ecclesiology and mission.

    ReplyDelete
  5. The Diocese of Bangor has become like a federation of non-conformist chapels, with a comparable rate of dire decline. No-one takes the Bishop seriously any more (if they ever did). What's worse is that we are subjected to him and his soon-to-be-ex wife playing out their attempts at resolution in public. It surely cannot be right that someone who has deliberately declined to exercise public ministry as a deacon for over the last 20 odd years, and has not even attended public worship until recently, when news of the break-up was made public, is about to be priested by her ex-husband. The sight of Mrs John acting as a deacon at the diocesan Chrism service was as excruciating for the congregation as it undoubtedly was for the Bishop. This is how ordained ministry in Bangor has been reduced to a role of convenience, with no discernment or accountability. What a sorry state our Church is in.

    ReplyDelete
  6. They should both resign their posts. He has disciplined and suspended others for brining the church into disrepute. Does he regard himself as infallible? Coward answer and come out! Or get Queene to do it for you.

    ReplyDelete
  7. To compare the antics of Andy Pandy and the decline within the diocese of Bangor to that within non conformity is silly and unrealistic. The latter, (non conformity) appears more in tune with a monastic order to compare what's taking place here in Sodom.

    Boston Strangler

    ReplyDelete
  8. Evans the Song4 May 2017 at 08:10

    Silly and unrealistic, Boston Stranger? I think not! You obviously have no experience of the car crash in slow motion that is life in the Diocese of Bangor. Morale was already at rock-bottom. Now we know that the Diocese is bearing the cost of housing Ex-Mrs Bishop in Penrhosgarnedd Vicarage, and that she is going to be priested (presumably in order to avail of a stipend), even though she has shown no sign of being interested in going to church since Pandy was imposed as a our Bishop. Disreputable in the extreme.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The 'Boston Stranger' I am not. I am the 'Boston Strangler' of 'Boston House, Gay Avenue, Llanddewibrefi'. Neither am I a stranger within St Davids and the gower plain. You, on the other hand require an eye test at Specsave at the earliest possible convenience. To compare the antics of your bishop in Bangor (possibly future Archbishop) to the decline within non conformity is 'silly and unrealistic'. The former behaving as if in Sodom whilst the latter resembles a monastic order in comparison. In other words "No sex please, we're non conformists". The Covenanted Churches will soon end , and it can't happen too soon.

      Boston Strangler.

      Delete
  9. North of the Dyfi4 May 2017 at 15:24

    I think, Boston Strangler, your repetitious reaction has prevented you from reading the vital word 'like' in my original response. The Diocese of Bangor has become LIKE non-conformity, with no-one uniting around a bishop, declining congregations, and - worst of all - closing down Sunday services for the benefit of the 'members.' I can't see how that attributes the decimation of non-conformity to Andy Pandy. By the way, Evens the Song is accurately describing Bangor, which is no-where near St David's or the Gower plaine (sic).

    ReplyDelete
  10. Might I suggest that my Facebook posting of April 30 with pictures from Salisbury Cathedral (where our gain concerning the Dean is surely your loss in Llandaff) should not be seen by the children at bedtime for fear of giving them nightmares. I could not copy any pictures into this comment - which is probably just as well. Edwin Barnes

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So scary that you seem to have taken it down: no post on your FB between 22 April and 3 May.

      Delete
    2. Matthew, don't know where they have gone. I have posted daily right up to yesterday on Facebook..

      Delete
    3. Not sure Edwin where you're comment on the Dean of Salisbury belongs in relation to the Bangor scandalon. Although I agree, neither should be read by children, and both are the stuff of nightmares. Does the Provincial Safeguarding Officer read this blog? Obviously, Barry appears to be an avid fan.

      Delete
    4. Regarding the pages 'missing' from Mgr Edwin's Facebook, in one of the many anonymous comments which are not published (see introductory header) it was stated that "You can only see all posts if you are friends with that person on Facebook". Hope that helps.

      Delete
  11. Safeguarding Officer? Now why didn't I think of that.The photo is a display of unacceptable behavior. Surely, we must have confidence that she is being properly regulated by Llandaff. I demand that she be 'cautioned' by the 'Kyser' forthwith.

    Boston Strangler

    ReplyDelete
  12. Long Suffering of Caernarfon5 May 2017 at 17:48

    Can anyone help me? I have been trying to obtain the contact details for the Diocesan Chancellor in Bangor. Neither the Bishop's office, the Diocesan office or the Diocesan Secretary seem to want to give me the information. Can any helpful readers of this blog furnish me with m'Lud's name and address? I am sure the reticence I am encountering has nothing to do with anxieties about objections to a forthcoming ordination, has it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No. I am sure not 'Long Suffering'. The forthcoming candidates for ordination, although an item of massive public interest on this occasion, will not be featured in the local smutty press, unless someone purchases the editorial. Somehow, I don't see His Darkness showing any interest in this one.

      Delete
    2. LSoC, a kind reader has sent me the relevant details. The Chancellor of the Diocese of Bangor is Professor Norman Doe, School of Law and Politics, Cardiff University, Law Building, Museum Ave, Cardiff, CF10 3AX http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/people/view/478847-doe-christopher

      Delete
    3. Has the 'Si Quis' been declared? You may want to object then.

      Ganon Gyfraith

      Delete
    4. In Wales Canon Law is subject to the Constitution of the Church in Wales, in, and as when, convenient. Rev David Norwood, deposed by the bishop of London, given a parish by the Church in Scotland, was later appointed to a parish in Monmouth by Rowan Williams sometime 1999. He was later returned to Scotland following media pressure until retirement to Wales where he officiated within St David's diocese even though deposed in England. The disestablishment of the Church in Wales moves mountains when it suits them. As it happens, it is probably decided that Andy will ordain his wife. End of story.

      Mission Impossible

      Delete
  13. There are many church people in North Wales who are very unhappy with the state of affairs. May I remind you once more that the Anglican Catholic Church is here for you: a bilingual, biblical, catholic and orthodox Church: the Mission of the Good Shepherd and St Tudwal. I attended my first annual synod last week in London and it was a joy to be there amidst kindred spirits and like-minded people. For further details, please visit the ACC website and take a step in faith.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Long Suffering of Caernarfon6 May 2017 at 11:55

    Thank you. It's good to know where one can access information when the official channels are closing ranks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Difficulty getting my oar in here L.SofC. What a grand title you have chosen, or been given. Don't waste your energy on Professor Doe young man. Other than donning a wig and gown, he has no authority over a bishop who suffers challenging behavior, since "Ecclesiastical law ceased to be law in Wales in 1920" (Rev Professor Watcyn Wynne School of Law Bangor & formerly Cardiff). You've heard it before - on this very blog.

      Mission Impossible.

      Delete
  15. Long Suffering of Caernarfon7 May 2017 at 09:06

    Thank you for all the helpful information here. I am now advised that it is the Diocesan Registrar who needs to be contacted in the first instance. Strangely (or not) that information cannot be gained from the Bangor Diocesan website, I wonder why? Sorry to bother readers of this blog, but could anyone else oblige with the information?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Bangor Diocesam Registar: Gwyn Eurig Davies; Tudor Owen Roberts Glynne and Co, 157 High Street, Bangor. LL57 1NU. 01248 362315.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As I have already indicated, these Registrars, whether 'learned' or simply High St solicitors, such as the latter, are merely ornaments in a disestablished church. Providing he is not in breach of divorce law, +Andy Bangor is perfectly entitled to ordain his spouse. End of story.

      Mission Impossible

      Delete
  17. I am not aware of any untoward comment made in my last attempt which hasn't been published, other than Mission Impossible may have a point concerning bishop Andy. For example, as bishop of Bangor he appears to have support on Anglesey, at least. At a guess, an image on Facebook of the congregation at the Mission Area Eucharist last Sunday suggests 400+ communicants. Not bad to consider, that, where once stood the last bastion of the Druids, the faithful were forced fed with an edict to close their churches that morning. From the standpoint of loyalty during domestic upheaval it was generous and thoughtful, but from it's Catholicity, more of a "None of our hymns have been tested on live animals".

    ReplyDelete
  18. Quite so Enforcer, nothing is sacred, anything goes. They must have had a ball!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Long Suffering of Caernarfon10 May 2017 at 08:15

    Mission Impossible doesn't quite get the point. Any objection will not be on statutory legal grounds (I only want the contact details of the relevant people to advise them, as a courtesy, that an objection will be raised). The objection is this: that a candidate for the priesthood, who has not exercised a ministry of deacon for 20 years, and who has shown scant evidence of Christian discipleship in the Church in Wales until the marital problems surfaced, is being ordained with no further discernment or opportunity for the people of God to make an informed decision about whether they assent to this 'ordination of convenience.' That makes it constitutionally irregular and the lawyers will have an interpretative role on the day. This, it seems, is the only way it can happen, because the publication of the Si Quis is being kept well away from the Cathedral noticeboard from what I can see.

    It is the usual fusion of arrogance and naivety that is the hallmark of Evangelicals who are convinced that are right all the bl**dy time. It betrays a deluded belief that, because God has called them, they cannot be challenged. Doubtless, Andy Pandy will have run this intended ordination past the Golfer, before the end of last January, and got the green light. No surprises there. But we are in new territory and one wonders how Madame Dean of Sarum will view being part of a Bench of Sitters where such flagrant disregard for Catholic order is being exercised by one its less than accomplished members...

    This is why we are getting all this spin about last Sunday's non-comformist 'united' service on Anglesey. Cor! 400 communicants? You think that's impressive when every parish is supposed to have closed down and gone en masse to a school hall, and Holyhead alone can do well over a 100 on an average Sunday in the summer? Bob the Builder will have to do better than this if he is to promote his Lord and Master more effectively in the future.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bob the Builder's Lord and Master? Do you mean his wife?

      Mission Impossible

      Delete
    2. @LSoC

      You'd better get used to us Evangelicals since God is calling more and more to Holy Orders.

      Since you are of better stock than us Evangelicals in that you recognise that, on occasion, you can be wrong unlike us pesky, naive enthusiasts in our blissful and bl**dy ignorance - ask yourself, could you be possibly wrong in this instance?

      Futhermore, in examining the 'hallmarks' of others take a look at the mote 'yn dy lygaid hunain' before making generalisations about the future largest constituency in the CiW.

      Alleuia!

      Delete
  20. Thank you for being so long suffering with me Caernarfon. Statistically, I agree with you. The figure 400+ does not sound high, yet a remarkable improvement considering the number of bums you have on pews on your average Sunday on the island. As for Holyhead and their 100 communicants during summer, records for a small parish such as Benllech shows similar results throughout the year during the 80s and 90s.But then an evangelical Cledan Mears was at the helm during this period. With due respects long sufferer, both Catholics and Evangelicals have one thing in common, its called the 'Authority of Scripture' Many thanks to a parishioner of Benllech for disclosures.

    However, Long Suffering, although I do look forward to Petertide this year at Bangor Cathedral, I do predict that it will be 'bishop on top' in this case. There needs to be a total reformation of the system.

    ReplyDelete
  21. From the wording of the Si Quis Document, Long Suffering you have direct access to the Bishop with your objection. If you can find where the Si Quis document is displayed in the case of one who has been so elusive for 20 years or so.

    SI QUIS

    HYSBYSIR TRWY HYN fod....................................
    o Goleg........................................ac yn preswylio ar hyn o bryd yn y plwyf hwn yn Ymgeisydd am Swydd Sanctaidd Offerirad yn Ordeiniadau nesaf Arglwydd Esgob Bangor; ac os gwyr neb achos neu rwystr cyfiawn fel na ddylid ei (th) dderbyn i Urdd Sanctaidd Offeiriad myneged hynny yr awr neu ei hysbysu yn ddioed i Arglwydd Esgob Bangor.

    Job done!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Alwyn from Abertawe10 May 2017 at 12:10

    Following this from 'down South' and becoming increasingly open-mouthed about what appears to be being planned in Bangor, are we going to sit here and let Long Suffering do this on his own? My sources tell me that quite a number of clergy in Bangor are unhappy, but unwilling to say anything because of the usual reprisals (the ghost of one Sue Jones of these parts is still alive, it seems). But those of us who owe no canonical obedience to a Bench Sitter are, surely, free to raise questions? Letters to the Bench Sitters (and Sitter-elect) should be being furiously written. Unless I am mistaken, and the apathy of malaise and resignation is greater than I realise.

    ReplyDelete
  23. North of the Dyfi10 May 2017 at 15:15

    And a direct objection to the Bishop of Bangor would be productive, would it? I think not. Bottom. Drawer. Out. Of. Sight are the five words which spring to mind.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Forget Canon Law, we are in Wales. The infallible "Constitution of the Church in Wales" is what matters. Unless Andy is in breach of any bye-laws of this document he will, (or somebody else will) ordain his estranged wife into the Anglican priesthood. He might as well do it in any case since we are no longer catholic.

      Delete
  24. Long Suffering of Carnarfon11 May 2017 at 09:05

    Thank you, Whamab. You've proved my point entirely.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Whilst I wish you well with your public objection at the ordination service of the bishops estranged wife 'Long Suffering', till then, do guard your identity well, lest 'Bob the Builder', who was recently spotted by a non-conformist minister, as one armed with a posh camera, and loitering menacingly by the cenotaph in Caernarfon. What ever does this little bas...d get up to next?

      Harri Coed Helen

      Delete
    2. Looking at the cenotaph and nearby church, he's probably exercising his vast imagination, "Soon, I will be the 'soul' agent in this area". (Please stop crying everyone).

      Delete
    3. My pleasure LSoC. Always happy to oblige.

      Delete
  25. "Vengeance will be mine spoke the mouse". No one even mentioned Gerald Williams (Safe Harbour)? His line of questioning always gave proceedings the flavour of TV's Mastermind, if nothing else.You could almost expect it to be followed by, "And your special subject Madam?".

    Llygoden Yard

    ReplyDelete
  26. Will the real Dean of Bangor please stand up?

    Having been challenged to 'Shock' him during his address at the installation of Dean Kathy, it is unlikley that the Bishop of Bangor meant closing the cathedral to the public on many occasions during the week - including market day and between services on Sundays. It is equally unlikely he expected that any visitor fortunate enough to find the place actually open, would then find it as cold and gloomy as it was during the reign of the notoriously tight-fisted Sue Jones.

    Now we hear that the deanery, the lovely house next to the cathedral in which Dean Kathy refused to live, is to become the weekday home of the diocesan secretary and his London chum! Meanwhile, a house owned by the cathedral in Orme Road continues to deteriorate and there are two empty almshouses within the close. Doubtless these latter properties are nowhere near grand enough to suit the day-to-day needs of these two fine gents but one wonders at this turn of events, why the anticipated development of the cathedral site shows absolutely no signs of progress and who is paying for this accommodation?

    Shockingly, this is probably the clearest indication to date of who is really pulling the strings in Bangor?

    Baffled of Bangor

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can only assume 'Baffled of Bangor' that properties mentioned by you do not meet the specification required. The bishop obviously agrees that the diocesan secretary should have a dwelling that is fit for a 'Queen'. Hmmn......Shut that door!.

      Delete
  27. With reference to the church for sale at the top of this entry ought not the caption be?

    CLOSING DOWN SALE; EVERYTHING MUST GO!

    ReplyDelete
  28. North of the Dyfi24 May 2017 at 10:42

    Baffled of Bangor is getting close to home. 'Dean Kathy' as she now masquerades, has never been happy with Church-provided housing. The hospital chaplain's house in Bangor was deemed 'unsuitable' for her plus husband (whom she later gave the heave-ho). But (what is now) the Archdeaconry on Belmont Road, with 6 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and 3 reception rooms, did very nicely thank you. Now the Deanery is not good enough, even though it seems to have been good enough for Alun Hawkins, whose tastes in interior design and living space were way off the Gok Won scale.

    Is this the same 'Dean Kathy' who was known as 'Deacon Kathy' when she was a curate in Holyhead? You the one I mean, who was constantly absenting herself from work, coming up with spurious excuses, never where she was supposed to be. When the Rector was on holiday, or her fellow curates were away, the parish church would be dead-locked at the advertised time of Morning and Evening Prayer?

    And is this the same 'Kathy' who was chaplain of Ysbyty Gwynedd when a clergy child sustained a serious attack? All the clergy of the Diocese were in Dublin for the annual clergy school... except 'Kathy' who told Barry the Golfer that she could not be released from her duties as chaplain and had to stay in Bangor to work. When the priests' son (Yes, the apostrophe is in the right place for those who know the story) was admitted to Ysbyty Gwynedd, they tried in vain to contact 'Kathy.' They were told by Ysbyty Gwynedd, 'She's away. She's had to go to Dublin to a conference which the Bishop of Bangor has insisted she attends.' Oouch!

    Mind you, Archdeacon Slaphead of Meirionnydd must be feeling very put out. The Diocese now has an even bigger semantic circumlocutory 'dignitary' than himself. I must hand it to Andy Pandy. Not only has he lost over a dozen gifted clergy of unquestionable integrity during his time at Ty'r Esgob; but he hasn't half got a knack of putting the wrong people in the wrong place at the right time. Meanwhile, the Diocese slides towards oblivion...

    ReplyDelete
  29. But North of the Dyfi, when she was Vicar of 'Betsi Coed', a News of the World reporter and his photographer had the Vicarage door shut in their faces and told to p..s o.f, when photos of her, and hubby to be, showed them emerging from the handsome' curate's house of a neighbouring parish one morning,soon after breakfast, looking rather pleased with each other. She told the reporter she was separated, and it was none of their business. Story blocked from publication, and the then bishop of Bangor gave a loud Amen to that!

    Peak Perfromance

    ReplyDelete