 |
| The Bishop of St Asaph, the Rt Revd Gregory Cameron blesses the Revd Lee Taylor and his civil partner, Fabiano da Silva Duarte. Source: Church Times |
From Premier Christian News:
"The Church of England has moved closer to offering standalone services for the blessing of same-sex couples. Members of the Church’s legislative body have backed proposals to trial the specific services from 2025 as part of the Living in Love and Faith process.
"The services are set to begin in 2025 as part of a three-year trial, pending the provision of 'pastoral reassurance' which would allow clergy and congregations opposed to the new arrangements to be overseen by like-minded bishops." Details here.
So the Church of England is following the Church in Wales in which a couple received the first same-sex blessing in 2021.
Commented at the time: "On Monday 6 September, the Church in Wales voted to allow its clergy to bless same-sex ‘marriages’ and civil partnerships. This was not entirely unexpected given the decline of Christian doctrine and ethics within the Church in Wales in recent years." - The Church in Wales abandons the Christian faith.
It has also abandoned those Anglicans who strive to keep the Christian faith.
At last!
ReplyDeleteJust admit that most of you bigots, misogynists etc etc are all closeted men who have nothing better to with their time than sit behind their computer screens. Pathetic
RR
@RR
DeleteWe sit behind our computer screens and protest anonymously because we know that your like would persecute and try to cancel us relentlessly. What for? For believing what Christians have always believed on sexual ethics.
Dim Diolch
Just admit you're a deviant or at least a supporter of other deviants.
DeleteThe outcome of the Living in Lust and Filth project was predetermined before it was launched. It's a window dressing process designed solely to give the appearance of meaningful debate over several years before arriving at the desired results.
The queered objectives have never been in doubt.
Please don't think that only 'bigots', 'misogynists' - 'closeted men' are against this drive away from Biblical Truth.
DeleteThere are still some straight thinking women left too, despite the seemingly overwhelming number of deceived women who are now in positions of authority in a church which is increasingly defiant of God's mind.
Precisely, AA, and well said.
DeleteTo hell with our false Bishops and Bishopesses.
Quite so.
DeleteMartha, Ruth and AA are, I suspect, spinsters. Whilst there's clearly a place for such in the church, I don't find their views on theological matters to be remotely edifying. Too embittered.
DeleteStraightFeminist
Interesting that someone who would consider themselves liberal and open-minded suspects that any female who believes the apostolic Biblical teachings must be unmarried, or that any male who believes such is a bigot.
DeleteIt must give them great satisfaction to have all but destroyed Anglican Christianity in the UK, and I wonder what their next target will be.
Who would have thought that 21st century UK Christian persecution would come, not so much from other religions, but from those within who claim to be but are not.
"For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."
@StraightFeminist. I find it rather amusing that people who speak the truth according to God's Word have to be put in negative boxes. Usually people who lose an argument take refuge in getting personal, as in this case. At least one of us is definitely not a spinster.
Delete@StraightFeminist.
DeleteI bet my King James Bible that you're neither straight nor a feminist but TP/LG/RR/untRuthy under yet another name.
Either way, long term contributors and readers of AB will know I have grandsons.
You couldn't be more wrong about everything, little bitch.
A married spinster I suspect. Bundle of laughs.
DeleteStraightFeminist
Just hope one of those grandsons isn’t gay. Not that they’d tell you Ruth - you’d disinherit them. The God you worship would require you to cut them off completely.
DeleteMay your chickens come home to roost.
Rooster
You disgusting vile creature.
DeleteWhy would you wish deviancy, mental illness, anguish and a disordered life on anyone, much less children?
The children ask for bread and you would give them a stone.
Fresh meat to your Grindr is it?
If you're the kind of human detritus the cult in Wales and the Church of England want in the pews (and pulpits) with their queered theology and Living in Lust and Filth agendas, they're welcome to you.
I think Ruth’s comment here is absolutely deplorable. To call a fellow Christian a “vile creature” and to suggest that they are grooming fresh meat on Grindr! It’s just totally unacceptable. I’m really surprised that ancient briton published that comment. I doubt he’ll publish mine.
DeleteRooster
Anon, if you wish to support and possibly engage in sexual practices which the Good Lord has told all believers to refrain from, why not remove yourselves from the Christian Faith following the guidance of The Bible and form your own Faith and remove the guidance from your Bible.
DeleteTo wish one of her Grandchildren turns out to be gay is beneath contempt and confirms you're no Christian.
DeleteI've wiped nicer things than you off the sole of my shoes.
Wow! You’re just as bad. I thought I’d read the worst on here until these recent postings. I’m deeply saddened and shocked by their vindictiveness and abhorrent homophobia.
DeleteRooster.
What's truly abhorrent is your rampant Heterophobia and utter disrespect for Scripture
DeleteIf you don't like it here then bugger off
Bewildered
Burn in Stonewall hell Rooster and take your queered blasphemy with you.
DeleteVile, burn in hell, you’d swear this blog was sponsored by Trump.
DeleteRooster
@Rooster It is quite clear that this blog is sponsored by someone who actually believes wat the God of the Bible says and means. If you care to read God's Word, it couldn't really be clearer. Any sexual act outside of marriage between a man and a woman is an abomination to Him.
DeleteAnyone who does not believe that creates his/her own god.
Thanks for that clarification Altar Angel. Most helpful buddy.
DeleteRooster
@Altar Angel. St Jerome, one of the great Doctors of the Western Church, phrased it thus. "Misinterpretation of the Scriptures turns the Gospel of Jesus Christ into the gospel of man; or perhaps something even worse, the gospel of Satan."
DeleteThe Loose Canon
Yes Loose Canon - certainly something very satanic about the vilification of lgbtq vulnerable peoples in history. Quite a misreading of the biblical texts.
DeleteRooster.
Why such a grossly disproportionate percentage of gays in the clergy? No wonder normal people want nothing to do with church anymore.
DeleteIt’s the same in most caring professions or those industries that require a high degree of creativity,, charisma, emotional intelligence and artistry. You’ll find the gay gene is a great carrier of those much needed attributes within the human race. Survival of the cutest.
DeleteDarwin
@ Dr.Doctor
DeleteBelieve it or not gay clerics have been around for quite sometime now (I know you lot won’t ever admit that. In your little world the church has always been full of straight, white men) and have given us some of the finest priests the church has ever seen and continue to do so.
This whole blog is a sad and rather dismal affair and fortunately the people on here are a complete minority and have been for many years now. Give it a few more years and thankfully most of you will be dead and buried and this nasty website will be a thing of the past.
Good riddance to the lot of you
RR
So which is it dimwit?
DeleteEither gay clerics have been around "for quite sometime" (and I would agree with you and suggest for at least a hundred years) or gays were excluded, ostracised, condemned, victimised, bullied and prevented from being in the cult in Wales.
Either it was one or the other but it can't be both.
As a point of fact I remember dear old Canon Rew mincing around the Green in Llandaff in the 1960s and buying his Newspapers along with a 1/4lb of Barley Sugar sweets every Sunday morning from Mr Pickard's corner shop.
You queers and queens can't have it both ways.
Canon Rew ? Mincing about the green and sucking on his barley sugars, sounds like something out of Dick Emery. He deserves an entry on his own. I’d love to hear more.
DeleteAgatha
Anyway Here's the Recipe for brownies
Delete1/2cup butter
2eggs
1cup sugar
1/3cup cocoa powder
2teaspoon vanilla extract
1/2cup flour
Brownie Monster #1
The disthergraceful chairing of the 2021 debate on by the then senior Bishop Andy John was prejudicial to the vote. He allowed a hostile atmosphere on the floor against those arguing for othodoxy. Since the House of Clergy passed by one vote, his partisanship chairing may well have tilted it.
ReplyDeleteWe are still waiting for all the young people to come into the church since it was argued by +June that SSB would be a beacon for mission.
Instead we lost some godly young and talented priests and 100s of laity. Crazy own goal, unfairly legislated.
The damage in the CofE with their version will be cataclysmic.
Dim Diolch
"The English word "church" comes from the word kuriakon, which means "dedicated to the Lord.""
ReplyDeleteWhich means neither the pretenders in England or Wales have any right whatsoever to be referred to or call themselves a church. Dedicated to glorifying sin and perversion is their goal.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteBaron Harkonen.
DeleteThe similarities are uncanny.
Hilarious.
🤣🤣
Bravo Bewildered.
As the Bishop of St. Asaph presided, were there lots of pies at the 'reception'?
ReplyDeleteWhat an embarrassment you lot are 😂😂
ReplyDeleteRR
Is RR merely the latest false ID for TP/untRuthy/LG?
DeleteThere's no mistaking the support for queered agenda.
No Menai. Now move on
DeleteNotUntruthy
@RR I presume the 'embarrassing lot' refers to those who prefer to adhere to the Word of God, rather than go along with the spirit of the age?
Delete+ June ? Surely, - June.
ReplyDeleteSir Omicron Pi.
After the bizarre sermon of the BBC-employee 'Lay Canon' reported in AB last week it seems that Bangor cathedral's pulpit is gaining the reputation of London's 'Speaker's Corner' or some anything-goes soap-box.
ReplyDeleteLast Sunday's sermon was apparently delivered by an Emeritus Canon (dunno which but apparently female) lambasting those who engage in 'social media' to take swipes at colleagues. She blurted that she was so very very angry, angry, angry with the wickedness and audacity of people to comment adversely that she later had to apologise to God for her fury. An obviously sensitive soul.
Parishioners were apparently left perplexed by the outburst especially as no clue was given to who, or what, or on what platform such venom had been triggered and against whom.
Surely not anything published in 'Ancient Briton'!!! My hearing is that it is a standing order of ++Andrew - a dictate even - that no priest of his domain shall read or reference Ancient Britain (although most do if only to be informed as to what's going on in their secretive diocese and the madness of their Beloved Leader).
All very curious if not entertaining.
Here's a personal message for the chocolate teapot. 🖕🤏🤌
DeleteJust read the Church Times.
DeleteRuth.
That last comment is NOT from me
DeleteScumbag untRuthy is back once more.
No Ruth. I’ve said before, Ruth is a common name and too don’t have a monopoly on it. You do whoever seem to have a Monopoly on filthy degradation of others. I bet your grandsons are proud of you. Not !!
DeleteRuth
What exactly should we be reading in the Church Times Ruth or Unruthy? And what's the personal message for the 'chocolate teapot'. Mind-reading is not yet inducted into the Ministry.
DeleteTrue, Ruth is a common name, but it wasn't here and you deliberately tried to deceive AB and his readers a couple of years ago.
DeleteYou could have had the courtesy to name yourself Ruth2 or RuthB but no, deceit was your motive.
Go forth and spread your poison elsewhere you Satanic into.
The prediction of Britain becoming an Islamic nation may well be the case as Islam laughs all the way to the Mosque as the decline in Anglicanism continues.
DeleteGay blessings are no different from gay marriage in being anti-biblical, losing the Church credibility, respect, and authority.
Consequently - with exceptions - parish churches are almost empty on Sunday morning. No surprise.
LW
Get over yourself.
DeleteRuth
@Cerri Llan It was not just in the Church Times but also on the radio, that the newly ordained female priest in Bangor, had received some very negative comments on presumably X (Twitter).
Delete@ Altar Angel. Oh was that it??? Someone whingeing about photos of Rev Godfrey in her ordination vestments as reported in Church Times?? What a kerfuffle over nothing. Surprise is that the elderly Emeritus Canon of the cathedral's pulpit is actually an X/Twitter nerd!!! And to froth so angrily that she had to utter extraordinary prayers to God to apologise for her wrath ? Poor God having to listen to such trivia.
DeleteI’ve checked last week’s Church Times several times, and can still find nothing at all about it in there! Perhaps it will be in tomorrow’s edition and some commentators here are blessed with the dubious gift of clairvoyance…
Delete@Fr Duddeswell. It was in the edition of July 5th, so no clairvoyance involved.
Delete@Altar Angel. Many thanks. I had a look in the archive at that issue and unfortunately I can’t find anything in there either.
Delete@Fr Duddeswell Perhaps the online version is different? If you google 'Church Times Josie Godfrey' you will find Photo story; Blessed. Complete with photo. I would give the link, but not sure if that is allowed here.
Delete@Altar Angel. Thank you, I finally found it! Just a quick mention of what used to be Twitter, I see. From the comments, I was expecting something more extensive, and aimed at this blog. I appreciate you helping me find it.
Deletehttps://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2024/5-july/news/uk/photo-story-blessed
DeleteHere's the link
One has recently had cause to visit a cult in Wales place of "worship" after a gap of some time.
ReplyDeleteOn the sign outside the south door I saw reference to "the inclusive gospel" being practised.
What a crock of crap.
The true message of Christ is exclusive, in that refusal to repent of one's sins and seek genuine forgiveness will result in eternal damnation.
Ruth (the original) is correct, our children are being given stones, not the bread of Life.
I see what you’re saying Epi but it’s not the message that best sums up the ministry and teaching of our Lord.
DeleteThrough his actions Jesus seemed anxious to reach out to and include those previously excluded. I wonder if that’s what the note on the south door was expressing?
I trust you yourself felt welcomed and included after your gap, or did you feel yourself somehow better than those in the church you re-visited? If it was the latter, you probably do have something to repent, but be assured, Jesus loves you. That’s the story we need to keep telling ourselves and our children.
Naomi
@ Naomi Jesus did reach out to the previously ignored and excluded, which now includes the biblically orthodox in the CiW incidentally, but he reached out with the exclusive message @Episkopos articulated, unless you don't believe it's Jesus speaking in John 3?
DeleteYes Jesus loves us all, but too much to sanction sin in our lives. The universalist 'gospel' is another gospel not the invitational gospel of Jesus, to repent and believe the true gospel of the Kingdom.
Dim Diolch
@Dim Diolch. I think it's the wrong emphasis if you don't mind my saying. But Jesus loves you too - very much. So do not fear.
DeleteNaomi
@Naomi When you recite the Nicene creed before the Eucharist and say, 'He will come again in glory, to judge the living and the dead'. What do you think it means?
DeleteDim Diolch
That when he comes again his judgement will be to ask those living and those dead, how well did you love?
DeleteNaomi
I genuinely can’t wait for the day that this vile excuse of a blog is shut down. A disgusting excuse of “Christians” masked as bigots, racists, misogynists, homophobes and so on.
ReplyDeleteWelsh AC
I think you meant bigots, racists, misogynists and homophones masked as Christians didn't you?
DeleteWhile there is clearly some of that here, there is equally an attempt at cancel the biblically orthodox caricaturing them in such a way.
We have only believed what Christians everywhere have believed about marriage. Thats why we are hated and despised.
Dim Diolch
I can't wait for the day the cult in Wales collapses and implodes under the weight of its own queered filth.
DeleteFollowed closely by the cult of England and its Living in Lust and Filth blasphemy.
I can't wait for Christmas ... with or without bigots, racists, or even turkeys.
DeleteIn other words, anyone that doesn't agree with your own bigoted queered point of view and isn't afraid to say so.
DeleteIf you don't like it here, you know what to do.
I really would recommend to readers and contributors of this blog that they read Phyllis Tickle’s book The Great Emergence. In it she argues that every 500 years the church goes through what she called ‘a great rummage sale’ in which everything was shaken up and where we reconsider a lot of our assumptions. Every 500 years it seems that the church is forced to reconcile the fact that God's love is much more expensive than most of us are inclined to think.
ReplyDelete2000 years ago God came into the world in the person of Jesus, not just for those of us who are good enough, but, for those who knew there were not. 500 years later, with the collapse of the Roman Empire, which by that point had become deeply entwined and interconnected with the church, we were reminded that God's love is much broader than the bounds and borders of a single country or empire. God's love is more expensive than we think. 500 years later, with the Great Schism as the Eastern Church in the Western Church split, we were reminded that God's love is larger than a group of Christians that claims a single city as its centre. God's love is much more expensive than we think. And then 500 years later, in the great Reformation, we were reminded that God's love extends further than just a single denomination. God's love extends much further than we think.
Each one of these great rummage sales caused, I'm sure, anxiety and unanswered questions, and uncertainty. But each one of these 500 year markers also indicated a new chapter where the church was being called to understand that God's love was broader, richer and so much deeper than we might imagine.
Tickle suggests that we are being called to carry God's love further than we may think in our own day. It’s a very interesting and intelligent thesis, don’t you think?
Naomi
In which of the previous hypothesised 500 year cycles did the church go queer?
DeleteDidn't think so.
Total tosh.
Sadly Naomi, I am not convinced by Phyllis Tickle's hypothesis. It is another way of saying, "We are where we are, so lets accept it. And whilst we are at it, we will just tell everyone that it is God's love at work in the world today."
DeleteAgape - spiritual love - has nothing to do with some warm sentimental feeling. St Paul tells us that Agape changes the world and human perspective. Whilst the Corinthians revelled in their spiritual gifts, the one gift they lacked was agape. If they had that, they would have realized that all their boasting was mere noise. If they possessed agape, they would have realized that even their miracles were worth nothing. If they had possessed agape, similarly they would have known that their most generous act was worthless.
Agape was the very thing that drove Jesus to the cross. It is clear from the Gospels that he didn't want to go to the cross, but agape and his obedience to the will of God drove him there. What we are seeing in today's 'church', and I use that word cautiously, is a cheapening of God's grace. I once heard GRACE described as Great Riches At Christ's Expense. If this grace was won for us at the death of our Lord, the church has no right to cheapen it.
When a child dies, families do extraordinary things to preserve the memory of that child, and to make their child's life a worthwhile life. The 'church' claims salvation through the death of Jesus, yet it has trashed his teaching, and put two fingers up to God. God says: This is my Son, my beloved, listen to him. The 'church' and its leaders say, "Who cares?"
It might be a case of 'being where we are', but it doesn't mean that we have to stay where we are.
The Loose Canon
Loose Canon - Do read the book. I may not have done it justice in my short summary.
DeleteAs for total tosh, this epoch is possibly the epoch in which we see the queer reformation. Challenging stuff.
Naomi.
Any "queer" reformation is simply the creation of a new religion or culture and has zero, yes, zero, to do with the Word of The Lord which very explicitly states more than once that homosexuality is a sin. Yes, the Church should welcome sinners but it should also be helping those sinners to repent and convert to living as Christians, not brushing those sins under the carpet as if they didn't exist.
DeleteWhat's the point in the Absolution if we don't recognise sin?
Naomi.
DeleteAnother one full of queer crap.
Bewildered
I’m straight actually. But I do get the whole queering of Christianity thing. Genuinely excited but it.
DeleteNaomi
You mean the queer deformation.
Delete@Naomi. I didn't say at any point in my response that what you had written was total tosh. So, please, do not put words in my mouth. As for the queer reformation, society can do as it pleases, it always has, it doesn't mean that the 'church' has to follow. If it became the societal norm to jump off a cliff, would the cult in Wales and its leaders - I cannot call them bishops because they are apostates - join them? Would you find a book to advocate this view and encourage people to go and jump?
DeleteThe Church of God is called to be faithful to her Lord rather than society, and he has a message for those who refuse to be faithful and who advocate deviancy instead: "I will come and remove the lampstand from its place". What is the point of a lampstand that gives no light?
Slowly but surely, all across Wales, churches are closing because they cannot pay their way, The money that once flowed into the CinW coffers is drying up. The Lord is removing the lampstand from its place. The queer reformation, as you call it, will become the curse of the Cult in Wales. As St Peter put it: "Judgement begins with the household of faith".
The Loose Canon
I was referring to another contributor who used total tosh as name for their entry Loose Canon.
DeleteNaomi
Calm down, dear.
DeleteNo you didn't.
"Total tosh" is a description of and/or a response to your post, not a nom de plume.
So it was, thanks for the mansplaining.
DeleteNaomi
How about that, Naomi: you're all about love apparently when it comes to unrepentant sinners, yet you're apparently a misandrist. How very hypocritical.
DeleteI’ll have to tell my husband that. He’ll think it’s a hoot.
DeleteNaomi
So pointing out the facts and your errors are mansplaining?
DeleteVery thin-skinned for a feminist.
Looks like you’re jumping on the mansplaining wagon too, Menai.
DeleteNaomi
It's SO obvious you're a gay bloke.
DeleteThe husband remark seals it
Bewildered
Bewildered? Befuddled more like it.
DeleteNaomi
@Naomi your comments sound more like the antithesis between sin and Grace. Your type have selective representation of righteousness. Do not forget that John the Baptist and Jesus deliberately told people to repent, something that the hypocritical so called teachers in the Church of Wales fail to mention.
ReplyDelete@Naomi I wonder how long it will be before the Church in Wales commissions an author to re write the Bible just like the Jehovah Witnesses have done with their bible, are you up for the job ?
Not a job for me Mathafarn. My Hebrew is too rusty. Besides, quite happy with the NRSV. Which is your preferred translation?
DeleteNaomi.
Never mind Hebrew, your English comprehension is too rusty.
DeleteHilarious.
DeleteNaomi
@Naomi and Methafarn Eithaf Actually when you think about it, the Islamic Holy Quran when originally written was almost a mirror image of our own Bible right down to the damnation of sodomy, buggery (the a.k.a. words for LGBTQ+). The difference is that the Moslems stuck rigidly to their version right through to the present (including steadfastness to the sins prescribed by their Allah/God) whereas our bumbling, corrupted, Christian faith has edited it, tweaked it, re-written it, misinterpreted it, redacted it, added bits and generally used it to the whims of the clerics of the day as and when the tides change. Time perhaps to return to the Original for a total return to the Bible as it was first instructed to be followed. Perhaps for independence and unbiased translation to its roots we could employ some agnostic Artificial Intelligence programme to do the job. Oddly I am growing to have more belief in the Holy Quran than I have in the new versions of the Holy Bible which some espouse.
ReplyDeleteThe new "versions" can at least be used for toilet paper.
DeleteAs can all versions of the koran, which as we all know it was invented in a drug induced state by the rapist paedophile warlord.
Bewildered
As I say, read the book. A remarkable theologian and prayerful woman.
ReplyDeleteNaomi.
More like another deluded dyke.
DeleteYou’re entitled to think her deluded, but in point of fact, she was married and she and her husband had seven children.
DeleteNaomi
ReplyDeletePsalm 24
3
Who may ascend the mountain of the Lord?
Who may stand in his holy place?
4
The one who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not trust in an idol
or swear by a false god.
Wasn't Jeremiah 23 a sobering read on Sunday? Woe to the shepherds that destroy and scatter the flock. Ouch...
ReplyDeleteDim Diolch
Yes. I was personally challenged by Jeremiah’s call to balance justice with righteousness when executing prophetic leadership.
DeleteNaomi.
"This people honours me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines."
DeleteTrue prophets turn the people back from their evil ways, speak the truth, glorify God and strengthen the faith and unity of the church.
A true prophet does not "get excited" by the prospect of abhorrent and sinful behaviour becoming normalised.
By your logic, that makes me a false prophet, but the hell, excited I am.
DeleteNaomi
Sounds as though you're on the plank in Wales.
DeleteNewport perhaps?
You’re right. The prophets found injustice abhorrent, particularly when the scales were weighted in favour of the rich. That’s what they appeared to find so sinful and raised their voices about more than anything else. More of that kind of righteous indignation on this blog please.
ReplyDeleteRooster
@Rooster Not 'more than anything else'. These few verses are hijacked by those who want to turn people's attention away from the real overall message.
DeleteIdolatry, transgressing God's commandments, and teaching others to do so is far more abhorrent in God's eyes.
But that requires a reading of the whole text, not just a few verses that might support one's own ideas, or human precepts, as in the excellent comment by Veritas.
I don’t agree Angel. Christ picks up the prophets call for justice. It’s a cliche, but nevertheless true, that he speaks more about money than he does sex. You’re guilty of the complete opposite. That’s not a huge error to make, but one you ought to reflect on.
DeleteRooster
@Rooster You appear to completely and cconveniently overlook what Christ teaches about marriage (the original subject of this blog), that it is a divinely appointed union between a man and a woman - not a same-sex arrangement. Quite apart from what the rest of the Bible says on this subject.
DeleteConcentrating on justice is a red herring which is used all too often by those who refuse to obey His commands.
In view of the Scriptures I do not accept the accusation of being either guilty or in error.
FairPlay.
DeleteRooster
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, speaks more about sex, than the Stonewall shower. It dominates their existence along with trying to force their twisted viewpoints on everyone else.
DeleteIt's obvious, btw, that Rooster, Welsh AC, untRuthy, Naomi and now Agatha are all one and the same fool.
Weight. Attach. Accordingly.
Bewildered
Even if not the same fool, at least all part of a perverse group of so called 'christans' who are trying to push through their sinful agenda.
DeleteThey're not Christians but false prophets and familiars of Satan.
DeleteTreat the deviants appropriately.
Marriage is between a man and a women. What a massive sin it is for the Church to teach otherwise through promotion of same sex blessings and tolerance of LGBT perversion.
ReplyDeleteLW
How exhausting it must be to live your life trying to limit what love is, judging others and then to cap it all, using God as your excuse. I'm tired just reading the stuff that gets spewed out on here.
ReplyDeleteAgatha
You can construe love however you want, but God made man and woman differently to be married together for the creation of children.
Delete'To limit what love is' - a blandishment we hear so often from the guilt-ridden LGBT lobby seeking an excuse for their obvious deviance.
LW
Reported in tonight's news.
ReplyDeleteOnly Halal meat is served for school lunches at Cowbridge Comprehensive school in the Vale of Glamorgan, despite only 0.2% of the local population being muslim.
One female pupil asked for a non-Halal meat option only to be told none was available.
Why are Christian children having this imposed upon them, and by stealth too?
What about any Jewish children at the school, do they have a Kosher option available to them or is it only one demographic being pandered to?
What's the betting this is county-wide or even country-wide?
Do the plankers have anything to say about it?
Shariah being introduced on the sly and through the back door.
DeleteEnough is enough, let them eat bacon.
I am happy to quote the late Pope Benedict XVI.
ReplyDelete'The Church belongs to Jesus Christ. It is not a laboratory for theologians to conduct experiments' .
Sir Omicron Pi.
If not Theologians then definitely not perverts and deviants.
DeleteBewildered
Referring upwards to the comments of Bewildered and Altar Angel and umpteen more before over years of questioning whether X is the same and Y; if Y is posing as Z etc., the answer rests entirely with Ancient Briton (himself) and the sooner he acts to stamp it out the 'clearer the air' will be and the fraudsters debunked.
ReplyDeleteEach of us when we first subscribed with our pseudonyms or true names provided our source e.mail addresses and Ancient Britain can simply tally these with contributors names. Hands up, I use the e.mail facilities of my old friend 'Ad Clerum' simply because in my remote cottage up the Ogwen Valley I don't receive and nor do I particularly want internet signals. But our co-sharing has been known for years ever since some subscriber asked whether Old Bill was Ad Clerum.
But if LW and UnRuthy and the now silent TCP, Agatha et al are all the same, then surely Ancient Briton has the wit and systems to block them if they all originate from the same e.mail address by blocking that single sending point they might all be using. Long overdue. Its very frustrating - and time-wasteful - having what was once a decent blog-site cheapened by fraudsters.
Give it a shot AB.
It doesn't work like that, AB has no means of knowing who's who anymore than he has of identifying IP addresses etc.
DeleteThis blog, and most others, rely upon honesty and integrity.
Which is precisely why it's so frustrating when imposters, fraudsters and downright liars from the satanic gay cabal make an appearance.
But you shall know them by their fruit.
They're actually pretty easy to spot and identify.
They are NOT all the same!
DeleteLW
Thank you Exodus. Spot on.
DeleteYou're most welcome AB, pleased to be of assistance.
DeleteLW, kindly note that it is patently obvious to (most of) us that you are NOT one of the imposters, in fact just as obvious as Old Bill's lack of IT expertise.
Do they have running water up in the Ogwen Valley yet?😂😂
No Exodus. No running water as yet but buckets full of rain, rain, rain drenching my magnificent allotment cabbage patch and as with Plaid Cymru local wallah's decree that we are Nuclear-Free (Putin please take note) we are still free of internet signals, broadband and websites. Oh joy! But we are also generally free of the LGBTQ+ same-sex married types which we hermit locals put down to the fact that we don't have a parish church which seems to draw them in. It's Queer-Free. Even our mountain-sheep seem to honour the scriptures of their Good Shepherd in they obedience to this although our lone macho randy-Ram, 'Ronald' doesn't quite understand what's wrong with a bit of bigamy and certainly not the Commandments bit about adultery. Other than that, its a good, God-given way of life with or without a lacking in IT expertise !!!
DeleteThere is a thriving gay outdoor club in the Ogwen Valley. You'd be very welcome to join us on one of our days out Old Bill. We promise not the randy-Ram you unless of course you asked.
DeleteBettws
What all the deniars of God`s word do`nt realise is that we have discernment through the Holy Spirit and we know who the pretenders are and what they are doing. What should make them concerned is that we have power through prayer and our faith !
ReplyDeleteI was saddened on Sunday evening to hear that a baby had had a naming ceremony instead of a baptism but what shocked me is the fact that the celebrant is a local chapel minister; as someone said what do you expect from a Methodist minister these days !
ReplyDeleteThen on Tuesday`s Heno Welsh language programme whilst announcing from inside St Mary`s Church in Conwy the presenter reminded everyone to join her in a coming Pride parade !
There seems to be plenty of pride these days but no shame.
Saddened that the child’s parents loved them enough to want to celebrate their birth with friends and family? It was be so exhausting to live life so meanly.
ReplyDeleteRupert
One troubling feature of our society in general in recent decades, and of the Church, is polarisation. In one way, it makes things easier: things are either right or wrong, black or white (and I'm speaking metaphorically here, not about skin colour). Either one embraces the LBGTQ+ agenda wholeheartedly, supports gay marriages and blessings in church, hangs rainbow flags from cathedral towers, has altar frontals in rainbow colours, participates enthusiastically in Gay Pride marches- albeit not necessarily gyrating on the streets wearing a thong OR one is a fundamentalist who condemns homosexuals and their behaviour and sends them to hell. I'm thinking particularly of the hate preacher in the US, Stephen Anderson, who has been rightly banned from a number of countries. We who read our Bibles regularly are well-acquainted with the scriptural passages pertaining to homosexuality - and yes, they are there. However, so are many other things. All of us - and that includes conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists- can be selective about quoting scripture when it suits them. I think what is lost in polarising things is that invaluable middle ground (and I don't mean indecisive, fuddy-duddy, fluffy liberalism) in which there are many God-fearing, orthodox people who genuinely struggle with their sexuality through no fault of their own. After all, it is very easy to condemn those sins in others, by which we have not struggled or been tempted. Yes, the Bible condemns fornication- in all sexual tastes but not all gay people are fornicators and many try their very best to live holy lives. Jesus does talk about marriage being between man and woman gor life - and I agree with Him- but He doesn't mention homosexuality at all. He does, however, have a lot to say about self-righteousness, which is the easiest sin to conceal. We all need the discernment of the Holy Spirit on this matter, and to avoid outright condemnation of people whose struggles we do not know, lest we ourselves be found guilty of trying to take out the speck in our brother's eye and forget the log that is on our own eye.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
DeleteJulian
Sodom and Gomorrah
DeleteThou shalt not commit adultery.
No sex before marriage.
Marriage is between one woman and one man.
Thou shalt not lie with a man as though he were a woman..
Seems pretty STRAIGHT FORWARD to me.
I may be wrong but it seems to me that not many here would condemn and even less send to hell any homosexual who is struggling.
DeleteWhat is so sad is that bishops and leaders of the church are happily condoning and endorsing open sexual unions outside of the divinely instituted marriage between one man and one woman. Thereby they are completely discarding the teaching of the church which was for centuries in accordance with God's Word.
I agree with you Altar Angel, regarding your point about the Bishops of the Church in Wales/Church of England not teaching their flock about Christian marriage, but rather leading people astray. Holy Matrimony is the lifelong union of one man and one woman.
DeleteCobblers, J. Gareth Parry.
DeleteWhat happened to the option of "Love the sinner but condemn the sin"?
Subversive Canon. What exactly is 'cobblers'? I am quite happy to have an extensive discussion with you if you have the courage to reveal yourself. I don't do things anonymously.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't know the meaning of Cobblers, you're already beyond help.
DeleteI'd rather have an extensive discussion with Jehovah's witnesses but thanks all the same.
You could try and answer the single simple question though.
Ungracious. Rude.
DeleteRTB.
Yes RTB, I agree with you. 'Subversive Canon' is ungracious and rude. Pity he/she hasn't the guts to reveal his/her identity.
DeleteFor either of you to provoke or upset me I would have to value your opinions.
DeleteThe question still stands and remains unanswered.
I am not sure that things are as simple or as straight forward as Menai Straights would like to suggest and this is because our understanding of marriage has always evolved and there are no model marriages presented to us in the Bible. Allow me to explain.
ReplyDeleteYes there are plenty of marriages mentioned in the Bible, but most of these would not be legal in the UK today. Take King Solomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines. Not quite the one man one model of marriage that so many contributors on this blog seem to think the Bible promotes. Nevertheless, it is a form of biblical marriage. We have evolved away from this understanding of marriage precisely because society has become less patriarchal than that of our biblical forebears.
What about the Prayer Book and its understanding of marriage? For us Anglicans, perhaps we should return to the model of marriage present there? If we did, we’d need to return to its understanding of marriage as coverture where the wife becomes the property of the husband, given away by her father such that the woman may not have property in her own name, not even a bank account. We’ve evolved from that nonsense too, thank God.
There is another evolution in our prayer book understanding of marriage that came about in 1907 with the deceased wife sister legislation. This legislation drove a coach and horses through the central concept of affinity hitherto found in Christian historic teaching. All those tables of affinity you find in the prayer book – who you can and cannot marry – were suddenly re-written. And the result of this Act was to contravene the prayer book’s understanding of marriage by allowing a widower to marry his wife's sister (as did also the Deceased Brother's Widow's Marriage Act 1921). The result was a conflict between state and ecclesiastical law which the Canons of the CofE finally caught up and amended in 1946.
Even as late as 1992 our understanding of marriage was being radically redefined in the courts when legislature took on the issue of marital rape. Before this time, consent within marriage was backdated to the day a woman got married. Standing there in her virginal white, it was understood that the woman thereby gave her consent to all sex from that day forward. Her ‘I do’ was really a ‘you do whatever you want to me’. This consent was one her husband could cash in whenever he chose, even after returning home drunk from the pub. That was what we had understood as sex-within-marriage – something so prized by those fascinated by those who have sex outside of it. It really is extraordinary to think that it took us until 1992 to change that, and even more extraordinary to think that many Christian types argued against it at the time.
It seems that marriage has been radically redefined throughout human history. Furthermore, there’s no sacrament of marriage mentioned in the New Testament at all, nor for that matter, any one size fits all model of marriage presented there for us to try and emulate. You can quote Jesus’ ‘a man leaves his mother and joins his wife’, but in context, that teaching was all about protecting women from hasty divorce, something that happened often back then and so is characteristic of Jesus’ concern for those who were left vulnerable in society.
All that same-sex marriage does is redefine marriage yet again and in a very positive direction. As we have seen - our understanding of marriage has evolved away from concepts of property, or ownership, or coverture, or complementarianism or headship or even sex (e.g. a civil partnership does not assume the relationship is sexual). Marriage now embraces notions of love, mutuality, equality, friendship, companionship and fidelity. Far from detracting from, destabilising or threatening a ‘traditional’ understanding of marriage, same-sex marriage has much to teach us, enriching what we mean by marriage and so it is no surprise that thirty-one countries across the globe now celebrate it.
RTB
@RTB When God designed marriage, He pronounced it “very good” (Genesis 1:31). He still pronounces it “good” when we follow His design. All perversions of His design, including divorce, sexual promiscuity, and homosexual activity, destroy families and therefore weaken society. God is the designer of marriage and the only One qualified to give us instructions about how to use His gift. We do well when we decide to follow His design for marriage.
ReplyDeleteBut what design should we follow? Adam and Eve? King Solomon and his many wives, not to mention the odd concubine ? St. Paul who said not to marry unless you're burning in passion? Child marriage once a girl has completed puberty, which for some can be around is 12/13 (see Ezekiel 16 and 1 Cor 7 - note the use of the greek word hyperakmos)? The disciples who were asked to divorce themselves from their family and follow Jesus? The list goes on.
ReplyDeleteMarriage and our understanding of it has evolved. We do well when we inform ourselves of the many ways it has been redesigned and for the better.
RTB
@RTB Marriage was irrevocably set forever by Christ's apostles as being between one man and one woman. If you want an apostolic faith and say the creed in good conscience, you cannot believe otherwise. Make a cult if you don't agree, but don't steal our church.
DeleteDim Diolch
Interesting that you should suggest that: the creeds don't mention marriage.
DeleteDiolch yn Fawr
Lol, Diolch yn Fawr. You should be more worried why the creeds don't mention marriage rather than think its a 'get of of jail free' card that they don't. The reason why marriage is not mentioned in the creeds is because the doctrine of marriage was so settled it didn't need codification. It would be like saying 'I believe the grass is green and the sky blue', totally unnecessary.
DeleteThe traditional doctrine of marriage may not be explicit in the creeds but it is implicit since the apostles believed marriage is between one man and one woman. We say, 'We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church'. 'Catholic' meaning universal, i.e. we believe what Christians have always believed and 'apostolic', in true succession through the laying on of hands but as importantly in teaching the doctrine of the apostles of which the moral law is a part.
Dim Diolch (Stop the Steal!)
I suppose that by following RTB's lengthy thesis on the flexibilities of God's edict, ie that Man can twist and turn as some Darwinian right of evolution, we can apply that to almost anything. Thou shalt not Murder. Ah, we could argue, but God never met my mother-in-law did he? So I can bend the rules to suit the situation in 2024. RTB seems to miss the point that Marriage - as with Murder (and often they are akin) - is God's province. It is not for Man to tweak it. I doubt if God was too happy with King Solomon any more than he was with Henry VIII and his beheadings of betrothed.
ReplyDeleteI knew it wouldn’t be long before someone responded with a lazy reductio ad absurdum.
DeleteRTB.
@RTB. It is all very well to accuse of Ad Clerum of reducing things to the absurd, but your whole hypothesis above is equally absurd. Jesus is the Head of the Church; and if we are to call ourselves Christians then we need to follow his teaching. The nonsense of Levirate marriage or polygamy was not a sentiment that Jesus espoused. Marriage was between a man and woman for life, according to the Lord of the Church. The New Testament also describes the Church as the Bride of the Lamb, not Brides of the Lamb.
DeleteWhile society goes off on a wild goose chase pursuing its wild fantasies, Christ's people are called to remain faithful to him and his teaching. I have no problem with that.
The Loose Canon
I’m not sure mine was a hypothesis. I was merely reporting fact.
DeleteRTB
He is The Bridegroom The Church is His Bride.
ReplyDeleteIndeed so. Such a helpful metaphor of the church as it fully supports the ordination of women. The priest celebrates mass not just in persona Christi, but also in persona ecclesiae. That's why having men and women in the priesthood is both rich and doctrinally sound.
DeleteJanice
Schizophrenic drivel from one with multiple personalities and Stonewall tendencies.
Delete