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| Former Commons Speaker John Bercow with Commons Chaplain Rose Hudson-Wilkin in the royal box at Wimbledon in 2015. Source: Church Times/PA |
From MailOnline: Church of England gives staff 'unconscious bias training' to help ensure that half of its leaders are female by 2030
The Bishop of London, Sarah Mullally, "hopes the change will stop men hiring employees in their own image and create a 'different' kind of conversation in the Church." She told The Times: 'I certainly think that having women as priests enables different types of conversations that probably wouldn't happen if you're a man. My background as a nurse means people often talk to me in a different way.' - Pass the sick bowl?
The Church of England has appointed its first black female bishop, Rose Hudson-Wilkin. She came to prominence when the first Jewish Speaker, John Bercow, controversially appointed the first black female chaplain to the Commons against the wishes of the dean of Westminster.
Committed feminist Emma Percy, chairwoman of Women and the Church (WATCH) who likes to refer to God as a 'she', said: 'The Church of England needs to show that it is a church for all, where women are taken seriously, where women are good enough for leadership and, consequently, seen as good enough for God.' - As Percy sees it!
If the Church of England were a church for all, WATCH would not undermine traditionalists. But it is no longer a church for all. It is being turned into a feminist institution dedicated to overturning moral values and traditional family life.
If these women were secure in their beliefs they would seek to convert the majority of Anglicans who profoundly disagree with them and Christians in the wider Church. Instead they look to society for support as if the Church existed to provide secular employment.
The Archbishop of York designate put his finger on the problem as the Church of England prepares to ignore biblical teaching in favour of street credibility among people who neither know nor care about the Church.
From CBN News: New Church of England Archbishop Says Bible Must Bend to Modern Sexual Morality
The politically correct Church of England is spiritually lost.
Its 'unconscious bias training' will keep it that way. Designed to expose unconscious bias and eliminate discriminatory behaviors, when difference of opinion is labelled bias and discrimination it will be seen only in one direction. Against males.
That there has been no outcry clearly illustrates where the Anglican Church is going.
Similarly in Wales the bench of bishops effectively waved two fingers at their membership at Holy Synod yesterday with confirmation of the appointment of a women bishop in a same sex relationship before the issue has been resolved by the Governing Body.
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| Cherry Vann confirmed in Sacred Synod as Bishop of Monmouth Source: Twitter |
By their fruits you will know them.
"By their fruits you will know them"
ReplyDeleteIs this a quote from Shakespeare?
'... as the Church of England prepares to ignore biblical teaching in favour of street credibility among people who neither know nor care about the Church.'
ReplyDeleteThat appears to be the practical outcome, even if it wasn't the original conscious and deliberate intention. It came home to me a while ago when I read that the lady vicar of Great Missenden, in the Oxford diocese, had railed against the lack of 'inclusivity' in the Church's attitude to same-sex relationships. What was striking for me wasn't so much that she'd done that; rather it was the rationale which she offered for doing so.
It went along the lines of 'I don't want my children growing up to realize that the Church holds attitudes which everyone these days recognizes to be totally wrong'. And it immediately came to my mind that during the first three centuries of its existence the Church back then also held attitudes and beliefs which 'everyone in those days' - i.e. the general educated consensus - recognized to be 'wholly wrong', and that there are numerous surviving writings from classical antiquity to demonstrate the fact!
But that the Church then didn't shift towards conformity in the face of that, but if anything argued that its distinctiveness was its 'unique selling point': 'I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.'
If the Church decides that it can't be counter-cultural, is there any point to it?!
John, it's also interesting that last Sunday the epistle reading from Ephesians 1, spoke of Christians being called in Christ to be "holy and blameless". Holiness implies being set apart for God. This is obviously lost on the bench of bishops in England and Wales. If the Church is set apart, it implies a separateness from society, not jumping into bed with it. The early martyrs preferred death rather than conform to what society required of them.
DeleteWhat is interesting is that society, in general, doesn't get where the liberal elite are going. The amount of people with whom I converse who just don't comprehend it. They expect the Church to be true to the values of the New Testament, and to be counter-cultural. Instead, the bishops think that their task is to be a Churchill dog saying "Oh yes!" to anything and everything.
Why the Archbishop thinks that the Supreme leader of Iran is going to listen to his call for restraint when his own Church thinks that the archbishop is a joke is beyond me. Obviously, to be a bishop, let alone an archbishop, you need an ego bigger than Mount Everest.
Two interesting snippets of information:
1. The parishes of the Diocese of Swansea and Brecon - His Grace's own diocese, none the less - failed to meet their parish share by over half a million pounds last year. It would be interesting to know by how much the other Dioceses reported a shortfall. Perhaps the worms are turning.
2. A friend of mine reports that Gafcon have had enquiries from over thirty parishes here in Wales about seceding from the heretical-led Church in Wales. As the Governing Body prepares for its meeting whereby the Bench of Charlatans will ask it to approve the blessing of same-sex marriages in church, Gafcon expect that figure to rise even further.
2020 - the year when the Church in Wales will celebrate its destruction. Happy New Year to you all!
Seymour
@ Seymour:
Delete'Holiness implies being set apart for God.'
Exactly and literally. The basic root meaning of the ancient Hebrew word קָדוֹשׁ - translated into English as 'holy' means 'set apart', 'separate' - think in terms of 'the Holy of Holies' in the ancient Jerusalem temple.
In the context of your comments about enquiries to GAFCON I think attempts at secession will hit legal snags in that, by virtue of the Welsh Church Act 1914 which formally disestablished Welsh Anglicanism, my understanding is that parish churches are vested in the Representative Body and are therefore legally the property of the Church in Wales and not the parish itself and its congregation. I recall that when 'the new reformation' struck Anglicanism in the USA - nearly a generation earlier than here - some parishes sought to break away from their bishop, and whether they succeeded depended on whether the diocese or the parish held title to the church building and other parochial properties. In the USA the situation in respect of that varied from diocese to diocese, whereas here it doesn't.
I hear that a few large and thriving conservative evangelical parishes in England have effectively cut ties with their bishop, to the degree that they will neither accept his ministrations nor pay their parish share. As neither is legally enforceable, the diocese is, in the short term at least, pretty helpless. But of course they can't formally 'detach' themselves, and when an incumbency falls vacant the diocese may then move to - from their point of view - 'put matters right'!
John is correct. All land owned by Church in Wales, including churches, vicarages, burial grounds and glebe land has, since dis-establishment in 1920, been held in title by "the Representative Body of the Church in Wales", a charity set up to manage the finances of the church. Local parishes or dioceses do not own land, although they may retain use and income, and also responsibility for the upkeep of buildings etc.
DeleteBUT who would want some drafty old Victorian building with no toilets, uncomfortable pews and no car park? Let CiW keep - and pay upkeep for - the building; the church is the people. Much cheaper to rent the village hall for a few hours on a Sunday morning, or use a room at the local pub!
Well said, Evangelical Ed! I think this is where some parishes and clergy are thinking of going by the sound of it. The RB can have the problem buildings and show great gratitude the Bench of Charlatans for bringing this situation about; whilst the parish can move on, minus their heretical bishop and money pits of buildings! I suspect that if a parish were going to leave the CiW en bloc, the RB would try to get them to take the church building for a peppercorn rent, and all the costs of maintaining it. If it were me, I'd shove two fingers up to them and move to the village hall. As you say, much cheaper and probably warmer too!
DeleteSeymour
It's interesting to notice how significant buildings can be for the worshipping community. My sister used to live in a small village in East Anglia. The church was small, ancient, inconvenient, toiletless, remote and next to the old manor house. Average congregations were 7, most of the village people stayed away as they still thought in feudal terms, that it "wasn't for the likes of them".
DeleteEventually English Heritage decided to fund a major refurbishment. This meant closing the church for six months and moving services to the not-very-exciting tin hut of the parish hall, situated on The Street; and also - as the Vicar put it - "Doing Church Differently". Attendances rose to an average of between 20 and 30.
Then the work in the church building was finished. The suggestion was made that, at least once a month, services should continue in the Parish Hall. You can guess the rest ...
But it does make one ask: what is more important? - the conservation of tradition in terms of liturgy and sacred space, or reaching out to the local community? (The church has now been "regrouped" into a different set of parishes, and there is now one service in church each month, and one "village breakfast" in the Parish Hall).
'I think this is where some parishes and clergy are thinking of going by the sound of it.'
DeleteI knew one parish in the diocese of Lichfield which did exactly that in the late '80s, after the Church of England determined that women could be made deacon. Well, not quite 'exactly', because they didn't hire a hall - there was a disused former Methodist church in a neighbouring village which its trustees had been unable to sell, and the parish and its sympathizers managed to scrape enough money together to buy and adapt it.
The rumour went that on the first Sunday after the vicar's resignation came into effect the local rural dean went to celebrate the Eucharist in the parish church, but found no one there; the entire congregation had followed their former vicar to the new building which they'd acquired.
However I can't be sure of the total veracity of that story, as the former vicar himself related it to me, and he was prone to hyperbole! But that he succeeded in taking much of the congregation with him was beyond doubt.
I know personally of a very similar Baptist church story where there was a split and the former minister took most of the congregation to form a new church at the Community Centre, with just a few "die-hards" left back in the old chapel.
DeleteAttendances at Llandaff Cathedral continue to plummet so the reality is that more people are to be found in the Butcher's Arms anyway, with the additional benefit of the company being much nicer.
Delete@Subversive Canon, many parents of Llandaff Cathedral Choir choristers frequent Jaspers for coffee on a Sunday morning instead of sitting through the vast clouds of incense at the 11 o'clock service. So long as their offspring get a subsidised education at the Cathedral School, they don't care about attending the religious stuff. It wasn't always thus!
Delete@Seymour, interesting to hear that Swansea and Brecon fell far short of their Parish Share giving. What happened in Llandaff Diocese? Pew sitters in the Landavian parishes will be overjoyed that £60K of funds are diverted annually to keep the Cathedral afloat. When the music stops there will be a very large hole in diocesan finances and the viability of the whole shebang (Llandaff, Brecon and indeed the whole C in W) will come crashing down.
It's a pretty feeble outfit if 4 out of the 5 present CinW bishops can't see to hang their scarves straight.
ReplyDeleteSame thought occurred to me, but I thought I probably ought to focus on the principled stuff!
DeleteBut then perhaps seeing how things ought to be in a well-ordered church isn't their forte?!
Perhaps it signifies something. Like having an ear-ring in the left ear lobe.
DeleteIt is a secret message to those 'in the know'?
Green carnation?
DeletePP. Some very poignant thoughts herein. It will nevertheless, in this year of 100,how 2020,will reveal the future polity and politics of the CiW, as the 50/50 lead the charge!
ReplyDeleteApologies to LW. This comment was deleted in error. AB
ReplyDeleteOne wonders what the Church stands for any more, when it can parade a practising lesbian and her partner in front of the altar with the smiling acquiescence of a bench of Bishops.
Absolutes have gone out of the window.
LW
The Church in Wales stands for nothing and its "Bishops" are false prophets.
DeleteIf your eye aileth you, pluck it out.
How much healthier the Church in Wales would be if every one of those Bishops - answerable to no-one - were to be given their marching orders.
DeleteLW
I hate to cause precipitation on anyone's bonfire, AB; and much as I admire this blog for holding arrogant bishops to account when they behave as if they believe themselves to be unaccountable to the people they serve; I have to say that your characteristic eye for detail and accuracy seems to have suffered adversely over the festive period.
ReplyDeleteYes, CBN news has indeed provided the headline that Bishop Cottrell 'says Bible must bend to modern sexual morality.' But Bishop Cottrell himself has never said this. His written statements, and responses to questions in interviews, have been quite clear. Not only has he acknowledged that his authority as a bishop (and archbishop) does not allow him to take sweeping unilateral decisions on questions of ethics and doctrine; he has consistently said that the Church of England is 'having a conversation' as it seeks consensus. In other words, he is affirming the Catholic principle of Consensus Fidelium. That is rather different from what the headline writers are claiming - and we all know how the media is notorious for its lack of nuance when it comes to theological detail.
As for the Synod to confirm the election of Archdeacon Cherry Vann as Bishop of Monmouth, and the involvement of her same-sex partner in the photograph, prior to any consensus being sought in the Governing Body? That is an entirely different matter and in stark contrast to Bishop Cottrell's stated commitment to Consensus Fidelium. To what extent Cherry Vann can be a focus of unity in Monmouth (and I gather the exodus of new and long-standing clergy, despite some archidiaconal attempts at bullying, is already beginning) remains, sadly, a matter for speculation.
What a silly picture! What on earth are these bishops trying to prove? It can only be yet another attempt to force their aberrant thinking on to the public in general as it's clear that they have no intention of observing true Christian teaching This pressure will obviously be exerted on the next meeting of the governing body so, come on GB members, stick to what you know is right and throw out all erroneous teaching . You had the guts to reject Peggy Jackson's selfish and arrogant proposal so exert your power here too and stand up to this bunch of wolves in sheep's clothing. If you fail to do so, you will be complicit in the demise of the C in W sooner rather than later and your reputation will end in tatters.
DeleteNemesis
Talking of Peggy, Nemesis, an advert in last Friday's Church Times suggests that she is back. And here was me hoping that the 'sabbatical' was a means to a humane end. Obviously June doesn't do humane ends!
DeletePP. Their cannot be that many FT clergy left to bully in Monmouth! NSMs/HfD priests can simply down tools. The new Bishop, despite personal status, has a huge task and that is no mean feat. If one reads the comments in the sacred synod blog (FB, Twt, Lin etc) there appears welcome comments to this new episcopal reign from some clergy. Time will tell no doubt
ReplyDeleteGood point Anonymous. Bishops don't serve, they "reign". Ever seen a straight banana?
DeleteTender Hook
You cannot give bishops their marching orders LY. They "reign" not "serve". Their favourite hymn is a must
ReplyDelete"Onward we continue,
just as we bloody please"
(to the tune onward Christian soldiers).
Henry Paget
It would be really funny..if it were not for the fact there are souls at stake.
ReplyDeleteAfter seeing this picture, it makes me wonder whether the Catholic church is right - our Anglican orders are absolutely null and utterly void. I almost wish it were so.
ReplyDeleteAnglican orders have been utterly null and void since the Apostolic succession was shattered by the ordination of Priestesses.
DeleteWhat nonsense. Clearly this position represents the opinion of someone who has not experienced female clergy at first hand
DeleteCymro
For me the especially droll thing is that Anglican bishops and scholars have, at least since since the early 17th century, have frequently been reproaching the Roman church over their departure from the order of the universal Church by asserting the universal jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome. Thus, consciously or otherwise, associating themselves with the centuries-long objection of the eastern and oriental churches to that same doctrine; I remember hearing a Serbian Orthodox priest years ago affirm that the claim to universal jurisdiction effectively made the Roman pope the first protestant, in that he led the Latin church away from believing καθ'όλου ('according to the whole') which is the original and root meaning of 'catholic'.
DeleteOnly for the Anglican churches, within a mere two generations, to depart from catholic order even more fundamentally than Rome had done by unilaterally claiming the authority to ordain women to the priesthood and episcopate. At that point it seemed to me that the 'Anglican way' which I'd learned was to be jettisoned, and that the Anglican church was now content to be just another denomination among many rather than a local expression of the Church Catholic, which is how I'd been taught to interpret the creeds.
Speak for yourself Cymro, you have no idea of other people's experiences of Priestesses.
DeleteMy own is not good but I am aware that others have suffered far more.
I speak as I find and Priestesses have been a disaster, the deceitful lying Peggy the Pilate being a well known example.
Caiaphas, "I am the accuser" is another.
Mercifully, both are fast approaching 70 and will soon be gone.
Well said Gabriel.
DeleteIf only a few more like you were on the Governing Body maybe the Church in Wales would not be in terminal decline.
There is no such thing as a "Priestess" in the Anglican Church. There are however, in some of the Provinces, female Priests.
DeleteSome of these female priests, much like some of their male counterparts, may have proved unequal to the job.
The Apostolic Succession which before the 8th Century may well have passed through a female line, is in no way endangered by the ordination of women, no more in fact than the succession of a large number of utterly disgraceful Popes.
I have to think that the reported decline in Church membership is in some way related to the internecine strife that is so characterised by this silly argument
Cymro
IN my tradition - which has had women ministers since the 1920s, although not many and often subordinated to men - we do not regard our Ministers as "priests" nor believe in Apostolic Succession except in terms of passing down the Apostolic faith. This would be true across Nonconformism. Are we therefore not "proper" servants of Christ or, indeed, "proper" Christians?
Delete@Cymro
DeleteOf course there are Priestesses, just as there were Abesses, Prioresses and Deaconesses.
You call them whatever you like and so will I.
As for internecine strife, Caiaphas, Peggy the Pilate and Wigley have demonstrated they are experts.
The acid test of the Priestesses 'experiment' is how many more people are coming to church on Sundays now compared with 26 years ago?
DeleteI know literally dozens who have left but I cannot think of a single person who started coming to church because of the Vicar of Dibley innovation.
QED
Contrary to Exodus's assertions, nothing has been demonstrated by his presentation of a few random statistics, or should I say anecdotes.
DeleteHis logic teacher must be squirming to read such a facile set of assertions, based on hot air.
Cymro
There's precious little random or anecdotal about the disastrous decline in attendance figures recorded annually in the Governing Body's reports of the last quarter of a century.
DeleteSpeaking of a lack of logic what rationale do you claim for assigning a gender to Mr. Mrs. or Miss Exodus?
Mea Culpa Ruth
DeleteNo logic, merely common usage until very recently.
Nevertheless;Mea Maxima Culpa
Cymro
"There's precious little random or anecdotal about the disastrous decline in attendance figures" - sadly true for most denominations. But I very much doubt if the average person on the Pontypandy omnibus (other routes are available) cares two hoots about the gender of the person at the front. There may be many reasons why they don't come to church, but it having a female Minister is way down the list (if it's even there at all).
DeleteYou miss the point again BT.
DeleteWe're not discussing "most denominations", just the Church in Wales.
If, as you suggest, the average person in the street doesn't give two hoots whether it's a Priest or a Priestess at the altar, you have proved the point Exodus makes, specifically that no one has joined the Church because of the ordination of women.
The statistics clearly indicate thousands (of men and women) have, for whatever reason(s), left.
And they continue to do so.
DeleteRegardless of the deviant Bishops, the Governing Body, project 2020 or the squandering of £10 million, they continue to do so.
What 1662 and Exodus have forgotten to mention is that in the run-up to the GB voting to permit women priests, one of the arguments made time and again was that congregations would grow as a result of women being admitted to the priesthood. This is demonstrably not true, as per the CiW's own statistics.
DeleteSeymour
PP. I have to agree my experience women priest is limited but I have notice the abrasive attitude in some, but not all. However the other denominations with more embedded ministry of women, I find less about status more getting on with the role.
ReplyDeleteMy experience of many women priests is good. However, all I read and see is that those who have risen to senior positions such as Archdeacon and Bishop has been utterly disastrous. I except the Dean of St David's and the new Archdeacon there in this as I don't know enough about them.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it just the wrong women are being selected and for the wrong reasons? I mean why elect Cherry Vann when as an Archdeacon of many years' standing she was not on the preferment list in the Church of England - not even for a suffragan let alone a diocesan? This is what you get when you load the electoral college with heavy numbers of the hierarchy. We have only ourselves to blame for allowing this.
We all know why she was elected and it wasn't based on biblical criteria.