Most viewed posts in 2017

Listed below are the most viewed Ancient Briton posts in 2017.

Top of the list is Not another victim! The sad tale of David Wilbourne (left), the Ass bishop of Llandaff who resigned after speaking of a "sustained campaign forcing him to quit".

One of the Yes persons imported by archbishop Barry Morgan to substitute liberal feminism for faith, Wilbourne quickly became surplus to requirements after the Governing Body of the Church in Wales concluded that they knew better than the wider Church and voted in favour of women bishops, persuaded by the likes of Wilbourne and another import, Peggy (the pilot) Jackson who was responsible for reducing the code of practice to meaningless double speak as evidenced following the appointment of women bishops to St Davids and Llandaff.

Well known for reminding captive listeners that he knew the former Archbishop of York  John Habgood, the Ass bishop featured prominently in 'Spot the Dog' in the popular blog, The Llandaffchester Chronicles, sadly closed down after ruffling too many feathers.

With hindsight Wilbourne may regret his ridiculous claim that the ordination of women would rid the world of homophobia, misogyny, brutalisation of women in all situations including those in war zones but I doubt it. One thing that characterises progressives is their ability to say anything that aids their secular cause regardless of the facts.

'Llandaff' entries attract most attention for commentators. Even when writing on other subjects commentators have become adept at teasing out any nuance that might be used to take another swipe at what they regard as the unsatisfactory situation that has afflicted Llandaff Cathedral for many years, beginning under the stewardship of Dr Barry Morgan.

The Jeffrey John affair raised divisions in Llandaff to desperate levels, dragging the church through the mud with accusation after accusation in what was probably his last hope of preferment. Contrary to scripture, John had already threatened to sue the Church of England if he was blocked from becoming a bishop.

Some claimed that the bench of bishops opposed his appointment because they did not want to be overshadowed. Not a difficult task then or now but in reality the fear was that as an active campaigner, John who is "one of the most contentious figures in the Church", would attract too much unwelcome attention from the media.

Church in Wales bishops                                    Source: BBB/Church in Wales

Possibly as a penance for the truculent stance taken by the gay lobby and sympathisers in Llandaff  in demanding the appointment of Jeffrey John the bench imposed on them instead a female LGBT sympathiser with the self-satisfied smirk of someone who has achieved her goal.

All has blown over. The bench sitters have settled back into complacent mode as the church collapses around them. The new archbishop promises more of the same but quicker, apparently blind to the damage already done by the bench under archbishop Morgan.

The blabbing bishop remains anonymous. The complicit Canon carries on. The pew sitters continue to grin and bear it as they dig deeper to support a system which prefers the chosen few who continue to complain that they are not welcome while the faithful leave in despair.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

The 10 most viewed entries in 2017:

 1. Not another victim!

 2. Llandaff stalemate

 3. Consecration of the Bishop of Llandaff

 4. All change at the Cathedral

 5. Time for change

 6. The Victim

 7. New Bishop of Llandaff to be elected

 8. Decision time

 9. The Llandaff problem

10. Bishop of Llandaff: Stage 3

 No doubt the rumblings will continue through 2018.

That's rich bishop!

Bishop of Liverpool Paul Bayes         Source: Christian Today

The bishop of Liverpool,  Paul Bayes has criticised American religious leaders who support Donald Trump, saying they cannot justify their Christian faith.

Bishop Bayes told the Guardian: “Some of the things that have been said by religious leaders seem to collude with a system that marginalises the poor, a system which builds walls instead of bridges, a system which says people on the margins of society should be excluded, a system which says we’re not welcoming people any more into our country.

That's rich coming from one of the Church of England's senior bishops who is to chair a new charity aimed at promoting greater acceptance of LGBT people.

Most of the bishops of the Church of England along with the bench of bishops of the Church in Wales have no problem with marginalising faithful Anglicans, building walls to exclude them for remaining faithful to scripture and tradition.

The Bishop of Liverpool is to chair a new charity aimed at promoting greater acceptance of LGBT people by working with religious organisations around the world. He has been named as chair of the Ozanne Foundation, whose director Jayne Ozanne is a high-profile Anglican activist for LGBT inclusivity.

The Ozanne Foundation believes in a world where "all are accepted and equally valued", implying that they are not despite their over representation from bishops' thrones to church pews chairs based on the most recent statistics of just over 1 million (2.0%) of the UK population aged 16 and over identified themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual (LGB).

The charity's trustees and council of reference include the Dean of St Paul's, David Ison, Rev Steve Chalke, Ben Bradshaw MP and the Dean of St Albans, Jeffrey John, someone well known to readers for his personal interpretation of scripture in support of personal preferences.

Bayes said: "The Church of England has committed herself to what our Archbishops have called radical new Christian inclusion, and has publicly stated that we are against all forms of homophobia. If we mean this, and I believe we do, then we need to find appropriate ways of welcoming and affirming LGBTI people who want their love recognised by the Church."

The duplicity is mind blowing. Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are not excluded from the church. They appear to be in the driving seat. To claim that their 'love' is not recognised by the Church without a shred of supporting evidence is disgraceful when same sex marriage is clearly the objective.

Love has many forms. To imply that love is not recognised by people who are opposed to the redefinition of marriage is not just unworthy of the bishop, it is difficult to understand how people holding such views can justify their Christian faith.

Wishing you a Happy Christmas and a Peaceful 2018

L'Adoration des bergers 1689 Charles Le Brun  

Christianity in Britain to take more knocks

Fatima Salaria has been put in charge of the BBC's religious programming             Source:Express

The atheist Director of religious programming at the BBC, James Purnell, has indicated that Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and Jewish holy days will be marked on popular programmes including The One Show and Chris Evans on Radio 2.

Earlier this year it was reported that the BBC had replaced one Muslim with another, Fatima Salaria, in charge of religious television shows making her responsible for all the BBC’s religious content including Songs of Praise, now a pale reflection of what it used to be. Ms Salaria has previously commissioned Muslims Like Us, a reality style show and produced Britain’s Jihadi Brides. 

It is right that we all should seek to understand faith in the widest context and the practices of others but it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the portrayal of Islam as the religion of peace is at variance with experience.

Most Muslims believe it is their religious duty to try to convert others to the Islamic faith. According to the Pew Research Center, in every country where the question was asked, a large majority of Muslims say all or most of their close friends share their faith. The survey found that even in countries with substantial non-Muslim populations, a large majority of Muslims say most, if not all, of their close friends share their faith.

Multiculturalism in Great Britain has resulted in the creation of Islamic areas. Some have been described as no-go areas for non-Muslims. Relatively few Muslims find the idea of inter-marriage acceptable but in Egypt, Muslims abduct Egyptian Christians, forcing them into marriages and conversions to Islam – "a fourfold atrocity" that is reaching "epic proportions". In some countries apostasy is met with a death sentence

This dark side is rarely reported. When it is, it is reported as the actions of people who are mentally disturbed or the acts of extremists who do not represent true Islam.  But "Islamists" take their authority from the same Muslim texts that are used to protest that Islam is a religion of peace despite all the evidence to the contrary for 1400 years with Jewish holy sites and Christian churches converted to mosques as witnessed in Jerusalem, Istanbul and elsewhere.

It has been suggested that Parish churches could host multi-faith worship in their battle to stay open, using them as "social hubs for people of all ages, spaces to offer hospitality and vital services to the vulnerable". Churches are already being used to provide accommodation for the homeless over Christmas and many more are involved providing food banks for the needy but using churches to provide Muslims with more space to pray is a serious error of judgement as explained here. Once a place has been used for Muslim worship it is ipso facto a mosque.

Some Christian leaders are so keen to outdo each other in demonstrating brotherly love that they have effectively proclaimed to the world that Mohammed is greater than Jesus. Prince Charles declared his wish many years ago to be Defender of Faith to reflect Britain's multicultural society. It is a one way traffic. As Christian symbols are removed to avoid upsetting Muslims, non-Muslims are expected to observe Muslim customs by removing shoes while women are expected cover their heads in deference implying that only Islam is worthy of respect.

In my previous entry I referred to the Christmas message from the Archbishop of Wales and his use of the word 'love' which has become a password for progressives. In an interview for Christian Today he was asked "You were a key speaker recently at a Muslim Council of Wales event: how important is inter-faith dialogue?"

The Archbishop replied: "Very important. Again if you look at the caricatures, what a lot of people appear to believe about Islam is profoundly misguided. If you look at Islam, Christianity, Judaism, here you have religions and creeds that seek at the most fundamental level human flourishing and the good of mankind. It is very easy to interpret tiny bits of scriptures as wishing harm on others, when that is not representative."

Churchill was not so misguided. He warned of appeasement. He also warned of the perils of the Mahommedan religion:

  "Indeed it is evident that Christianity, however degraded and distorted by cruelty and intolerance, must always exert a modifying influence on men’s passions, and protect them from the more violent forms of fanatical fever, as we are protected from smallpox by vaccination. But the Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword, and ever since its votaries have been subject, above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness."

Postscript [23.12.2017]

Church can remove pews to attract local Muslims, court rules

St Thomas Werneth in Oldham has been allowed to remove its pews in order to cater for local Muslims. It has been given permission to remove the pews to allow it to hold more events with the wider community which is 88 per cent non-white British and "broadly Muslim". St Thomas C of E Primary School in Werneth was earlier this year reported to have only Muslim pupils.

Christmas messages from the bench of bishops

The bishop of Bangor gets quite a lot of stick from commentators on this blog but again, following his Easter message, out of the six diocesan bishops of the Church in Wales I have found his Christmas message most engaging, even if somewhat disconcerting in the way he keeps looking aside as if expecting a visit from the constabulary.

As for the rest, the bishop of Monmouth makes a bold attempt as he concentrates his attention on an Orthodox icon of the nativity but sadly such spirituality is not reflected in the move to non-conformity embraced by the bench.

In her first Christmas message, the bishop of Llandaff says gifts are not just for Christmas so she devotes just one sentence to the Christmas story in an otherwise secular discourse.

The bishop of St Aspah muses about a colander Christmas as he reminisces about his mother's Tupperware, well removed from "a pregnant unmarried teenager, no place to stay, rural folk seeing visions, and strangers seeking attention from the East" which he refers to.

The bishop of St Davids compares the "saccharine nature" of the Christmas bonanza with the "increasingly uncertain world we live in" - the more so for traditional Anglicans.

Last to deliver, the Archbishop of Wales, who is also bishop of Swansea and Brecon, writes of Love: "real, blood-red love – is the most powerful weapon the world has, and Jesus shows how it should be used and must be used for the sake of the world he was born to renew".

Because Jesus said that we should love one another 'love' has become a password for progressives to permit just about any deviancy but Jesus added, "As I have loved you, so you must love one another". In that context the meaning of love is clear. His true message is simply ignored.

Divinity? - Who needs divinity, we've moved on!

The speech therapist, the oil executive and the midwife.    Credit: Christian Today

The former Presiding Bishop of the US Episcopal Church was an oceanographer, the current Archbishop of Wales was a solicitor. The bishop of Llandaff is a social scientist, the bishop of St Davids has aspirations in Quantum Physics while the bishops of Bangor and St Asaph studied law.

The bishop of Monmouth was a civil servant and still appears so as he busily converts his patch to ministry areas with the zeal of a compliant functionary to the despair of all except those committed to self-advancement at the expense of others.

The absurdity of the appointment of an ex-nurse and midwife to be the 133rd Bishop of London, the third most senior post in the Church of England after the Archbishops of Canterbury and York is neatly summed up in this tweet

but more seriously in the "box-ticking" account here as the Church of England continues to fall for the mistakes of the US Episcopal Church, slavishly followed by the Church in Wales leading to the destruction of true Anglicanism in England and Wales.

Postscripts

[19.12 2017]

That the Anglican faith, catholic and reformed, should be reduced to this:

New bishop of London could pave the way for female archbishop, say campaigners

So sad.

[20.12.2017]

First female Bishop of London: God loves gay people too - Pink News

Of course He does, the 2% of the population which demands 98% attention and increasing.

A more accurate view from Christian Today:

Sarah Mullally, like Justin Welby, is no theologian. The CofE is losing its nerve

The Archbishop of Canterbury says: The Church of England “is very confident in its faith”

What faith?

Bogus bishops destroy Anglicanism

Parliamentlive.tvStephen Cottrell is a member of the House of Lords in his current role as Bishop of Chelmsford.                       Source@ Christian Today

It is rumoured that the next Bishop of London, the third most senior post in the Church of England after the Archbishops of Canterbury and York is to be the current bishop of Chelmsford, Stephen Cottrell.

Christian Today reports that if the appointment of Bishop Cottrell goes ahead it could cause major tensions in the diverse diocese with a number of powerful conservative parishes opposed to both women's ordination and gay relationships:

"Cottrell called for thanksgiving services for gay couples earlier this year, warning the church was seen an 'immoral' because of its opposition to gay marriage. Some conservative parishes in his diocese called for him to 'repent' in protest and later declared 'no confidence' in both him and the Archbishop of Canterbury over the issue."

Bishop Cottrell's entry in Wikipedia shows that he is a member of the Society of Catholic Priests (SCP), and a member of Affirming Catholicism. In December 2014, he was selected as president of the movement, taking up the appointment at the start of 2015.

Affirming Catholicism it is not. It is a self affirming organisation "noted for holding that Anglo-Catholic belief and practice is compatible with the ordination of women. It also generally supports ordination into the threefold ministry (bishops, priests, deacons) regardless of gender or sexual orientation".

It had ties with Inclusive Church , "a Christian organisation with the aim of advocating for the full inclusion of all people in the Christian churches (especially the Church of England), including in the threefold order of bishops, priests and deacons, regardless of ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation. More broadly, it seeks 'to raise awareness about the ways that people feel excluded by the church'.

"In 2013, Inclusive Church started hosting an annual lecture related to the organisation's goals. The inaugural lecture was given by Martyn Percy, then principal of Ripon College, Cuddesdon, and later Dean of Christ Church, Oxford, and was entitled 'Beyond Inclusion: Whose Church is it anyway?'"

Percy is married to the Chair of Women and the Church (WATCH), another self-fulfilling organisation which ranks feminism above faith. In an article headlined Our Mother who art in heaven: Group of Church women want to refer to God as a 'She' to combat sexism in 2015, the Mail Online reported: "One of the supporters of the idea, the Rev Emma Percy, chaplain of Trinity College, Oxford, said the dominance of male language makes women feel that they are less holy. The chaplain, who is also a member of Watch (Women and the Church), the pressure group that helped win the argument for female bishops in the Church of England, said using the word ‘She’ for God would be more inclusive."

Faith matters little today as the Anglican Church in Great Britain treads the same path to ruin  followed by the US Episcopal church. Ideology matters. Feminism, gender issues dressed up as equality with demands for 'equal' marriage. The "mass hysteria" transgenderism banner is the latest to be waved in the name of equality.

Faith built on compromise is not faith it is an ideology as many ex-members of the Church in Wales can testify.

Postscript [18.12.2017]

Wrong again!

After the feting of Mo debacle at the BBC Sports Personality of the Year awards when the favourite to win came fourth, the Bookies again backed the wrong horse when they declared the bishop of Chelmsford 2/1 favourite to be appointed the next bishop of London.

Instead Downing Street has announced an ex-NHS Chief Nursing Officer, Dame Sarah Mullally, the bishop of Crediton, has been appointed the 133rd bishop of London in a move that "will delight campaigners for gender equality but dismay conservatives in the church" according to a Guardian report.

Another ideological triumph for the feminist movement and trendy progressives in the Church of England in their race to the bottom.

Always welcome gift

If you are still stuck on what to buy for Christmas, how about a gift of water for life instead of an unwanted present?

Many of us take water for granted, often joking about the weather and rain in particular.

It is no joke for the world’s poorest people who have no access to safe water, sanitation or hygiene. This crisis is ruining lives and holding back development.

WaterAid's mission is to transform the lives of the poorest and most

marginalised people by improving access to safe water, sanitation and hygiene.

There are 844 million people living without clean water and 2.3 billion people who do not have a decent toilet.

A gift of clean water would make their Christmas happy too.

Over-egged

Australian Labor MP Linda Burney jumps into the arms of Liberal MP Warren Enstch  after 
parliament passed legislation to allow same-sex marriage in Australia. Michael Masters/Getty

This was the scene when Australia overwhelmingly voted to legalise same-sex marriage on Thursday. More pictures here.

There was considerable drama. An emotional Liberal MP fought back tears to propose to his long-term partner in the House of Representatives shortly after the same-sex marriage bill was introduced to the Lower House.

The vote was "greeted with applause from all sides of politics and the public gallery" (here). Spectators in the public gallery began singing “I Am Australian” (here) but such enthusiasm was disproportionate and inappropriate.

The reality has been exposed in Great Britain by the Coalition for Marriage. Quoting a study by academics at the University of York: "There are around 40,000 places of worship in Britain in which a traditional marriage may be solemnised. Only 182 of these are registered to conduct same-sex weddings. Half of those which responded to the researchers had never done so.

The study showed that "the total number of same-sex marriages that have been solemnized in the
places of worship comprising the sample is 83. Over half of the places of worship that have
solemnized a same-sex marriage have done so on only one occasion. 19 places of worship report that they have solemnized one same-sex marriage, eight report that they have solemnized two same-sex marriages, and four report that they have solemnized three same-sex marriages. Only five places of worship have solemnized four or more same-sex marriages, with the highest number of  same-sex marriages solemnized in any place of worship reported as 10".

The gay marriage plebiscite in Australia was estimated to cost Australia $525 million but a poll suggests that the millions of dollars spent on television advertising by the ‘Yes’ and ‘No’ sides during the same-sex marriage campaign had little impact on voting intentions.

The population of Great Britain in 2016 was around 66 million compared with 24 million in Australia so in the unlikely event of exceptional demand the number of same sex marriages in Australia compared with the 118,401 marriages registered should be tiny.

The enthusiasm for gay marriage when compared with this reality is baffling. There are so many deserving causes which could benefit from money wasted on providing self-satisfaction for a few people with little or no regard for the sanctity of marriage as generally understood which is the union between one man and one woman for the procreation of children, without whom civilization would cease.

They talk of love and equality with no apparent understanding of either. Civil partnerships granted equality whether couples loved one another or not.

Same sex 'marriage' has over-egged a wrong which was put right at considerable cost with no benefit whatever to society.

It has been egged on by the media, often portraying the church as out of touch yet only a week after his enthronement in Brecon Cathedral the Archbishop of Wales John Davies is referred to in his local newspaper as the 'Archbishop of Brecon'. The Most Rev John Davies is also the diocesan bishop of Swansea and Brecon.

Twitter advises that the Archbishop of Wales will be discussing the role of the church in Welsh life on BBC Radio Wales Sunday Supplement this Sunday at 8am. Clearly he has much to do. On its own web site, the Church in Wales regularly refers to its clergy as, for example, Rev Smith instead of the Rev John Smith or the Rev Mr Smith.

Given the record of the bench of bishops in the Church in Wales, no doubt 'Right Rev John' as he was referred to in a BBC news article will be thrilled for the people of Australia in another giant leap for secularism.

Postscript [10.12.2017]

Readers who tuned in to listen to the Archbishop of Wales talking about the role of the church in Welsh life will have been disappointed if they expected any hint of the Great Commission. In his first presidential address to the Governing Body of the Church in Wales, bishop John Davies urged, "Put evangelism at heart of ministry".

There was little evidence of putting his words into practice. Instead we had the political face of a progressive church which, allegedly, "respects the consciences of people who feel differently" while providing their own answer to the Archbishop's question: "What would Jesus do?"

Ignoring what Jesus actually did when appointing His apostles and using 'love' as justification for departing from scripture and tradition, the Archbishop misleadingly pointed to the Governing Body as being representative of congregations when we all know from experience that it has become a tool to be used or ignored by the bench of bishops as have parish soundings and expensive diocesan consultations.

But the pièce de résistance came with the Archbishop's closing comments when he cited the Church of England's traditionalist bishop Philip North as an example of the church's concern for the poor.

Philip North is the bishop who was denounced by WATCH stooge, Martyn Percy, Dean of Christ Church, Oxford. He urged Philip North to either renounce his membership of the Society, a C of E organisation that rejects female priests, or decline his nomination as Bishop of Sheffield.

Perhaps we should not be surprised.  The new archbishop "signalled that the Province will continue to develop the vision begun by his predecessor, Dr Barry Morgan" but he hoped to "increase the tempo of change".

Archbishop's high-five

The new Archbishop of Wales, the Most Rev John Davies, with the other five diocesan bishops                                                                Source: Church in Wales

Preaching at his enthronement service on Saturday, the new Archbishop of Wales, John Davies, sought to identify himself with a generation that would probably give Job a "high-five or even an affirming hug". 

The archbishop spoke of "a commitment to an overdue drive to rehabilitate and refresh how we explain our Gospel message, helping others really grasp that it’s not simply about going to church". 

The former Archbishop of Wales and the Dean of St Albans have been there before, re-interpreting the Gospel to embrace secularism and accept same sex marriage, a theme continued by the bishop of Bangor in a contribution submitted by a regular commentator, Evangelical Ed: 

"The Bible and Human Sexuality

The church has taught that marriage is the faithful and exclusive union of one man and one woman for life’s duration. It has based this on texts from the OT (eg Gen 2:24) and NT (1 Cor. 7) and the long unbroken tradition of the church. It has also taught that sexual relationships between the same gendered, is prohibited. It has done so on the basis again of OT texts (Leviticus 18:22) and NT texts (1 Cor. 6:9, Romans 1:26f). The case for marriage as the only lifelong union involving sexual contact is the traditional teaching of most of the churches in the East and West.

However, this norm has been challenged in the latter part of the 20th Century and more recently too. Appeal has been made to Scripture, tradition and reason to argue for a development of the classic understanding of faithful, exclusive and permanent unions for couples irrespective of gender.

What is the basis for this development?

1. The church’s task to be faithful to God – what is morality for?
What is the purpose of a moral code? In other words, why does God give law and guidance?


Firstly, to enable faithful belonging to God who makes a relationship possible through Jesus. Habits and practices which are destructive undermine this. In 1 Corinthians 6:12f Paul illustrates how disordered lifestyles and practices are ruinous for a healthy relationship with God. But relationships which are mutual, loving, faithful and life giving do not appear to be the focus for Paul’s thought here.

Secondly to provide a framework for life in which mutual human flourishing can occur. In 1 Cor. 7 Paul unpacks a set of rules concerning marriage. The creation of these unions is clearly to create mutuality and belonging. If that same mutuality and belonging is present among same sex couples how is this obstructive or contrary to God’s will? It creates inconsistency viz God wishing faithful belonging but denying its reality among certain human relationships.

The parable of the Good Samaritan highlights the mandate to love one’s neighbour. This broad moral principle is helpful because it does not specify how such demanding love is expressed but contains within it the conditions which make love possible – it must, in order to be loving, not be selfish, exploitative, insincere.

Thirdly, there are Biblical principles which position fruit as the key criteria for discerning the authenticity of action and faith. Jesus taught that fruitfulness (Matt. 7:15, John 15) was a sign of this authenticity. Can we discern signs of fruitfulness among same sex couples? St Paul listed the evidences of godliness in the epistle to the Galatians (the fruit of the Spirit in 5:22f). When we encounter people living in same sex relationships where there is an increase in grace and clear signs of Christian fruit, how are we to interpret this? To suggest it is other than a work of God is to set the word of the NT against the Spirit of the Living God. Put another way, how can we sustain a view which pits the activity of God against the revealed will of God at a certain time?


2. The church engaging with the world with a willingness to develop appropriate moral codes (eg slavery, head covering and worship) for service and faithfulness

The reality of some moral guidance in Scripture is that it supports principles which are expressions of faithful obedience to God. But when that obedience is not any longer expressed via a social norm it cannot effectively do this.

In the NT, it was the practice of Christian women to wear hats to show they were under the authority of a man. It is likely this practice referred to married women. But mutual belonging in relationships (eg marriage) no longer requires a hat to signify anything. They are now purely decorative. However, the teaching of NT is unambiguous. If we appeal to the NT text to support exclusively male/female relationships, it seems inconsistent not to insist on head covering!!

Likewise, some of the cultural and social norms of the day have now been subject to many centuries of development and scrutiny. Where the Bible is ambivalent about slavery and is adamant on the issue of divorce, the church has developed understandings and approaches which attempt to reflect the essence of Biblical teaching recognizing that morality is complex and nuanced. No-one would argue today a Christian view on slavery which is ambivalent and yet that is the position of the NT (Philemon, Col. 3:22). Few would argue that divorce, if regrettable, is on occasions both necessary and the kindest and fairest response to a failure in relationships.

3. The experience of people
The experience of gay people cannot be ignored even if experience is not the first determining factor. Our sisters and brothers are not spiritual misfits or errant or deviant. They find their greatest purpose and identity as disciples in the context of loving another human being who happens to be the same gender. This reality is self-evident to such couples in much the same way in which it is to opposite gendered couples. It is a Christian virtue to listen with respect to what is being described before attempting to press experience through a particular mould with a pre-determined outcome in mind.

We believe in a God of justice and fairness. It is hard to see how the gospel can be good news and truth if it allows injustices which deprive people of certain permissions in law and society which bring joy and happiness.

+Andrew Bangor"

Or to put it another way from an anonymous commentator, the Gilbert and Sullivan Mass