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Sunday, 6 April 2014

Assisted killing of the Church in Wales (continued).

In my 3 April entry I wrote about two agenda items to be discussed at the Governing body of the Church in Wales later this month, Assisted Dying and Same sex Marriages. Papers here.

Sandwiched between the two items is a third, "Church in Wales response to the Proposals from the Gathering of the Covenanted Churches 2012". It makes interesting reading.

Here is a taste:

10. Long-term Recommendations

10.1 The Working Group recommends:
10.1.1 That the Commission invites the five Covenanted Churches to think of
themselves as the Church Uniting in Wales.
10.1.2 That this Church will be congregational, presbyteral and episcopal in
tradition and mode of pastoral oversight.
10.1.3 That the Church will have nine jurisdictions – the six existing Anglican
dioceses plus a Methodist jurisdiction, a Presbyterian jurisdiction and a
URC/Covenanting Baptist jurisdiction, each of which will be invited to
elect its own bishop.
10.1.4 That a description of the bishop’s role be drawn up and agreed by all
five Covenanted Churches (see Annex 1).
10.1.5 That, when and if the Methodist jurisdiction, the Presbyterian jurisdiction
and the URC/Covenanting Baptist jurisdiction each elect a bishop, the
bishop will ordain all those who are to become ministers within that
10.1.6 That this bishop will be a bishop in the Church Uniting in Wales and will
share collegiality and full interchangeability with all the other bishops of
that Church.
10.1.7 That the bishops of all nine jurisdictions in the Church Uniting in Wales
consult with each other at least twice a year.

At their GB meeting last November, the Bill proposed by the bishops of the Church in Wales to enable women to be consecrated as bishops was successfully amended by the  Archdeacon of Llandaff, the Ven Peggy Jackson, and the Reverend Canon Jenny Wigley. Their amendment substituted a voluntary code of practice for the statutory provisions contained in the bishops' bill. 

Here is what they said in explanation:
Our amendment seeks to reflect the overwhelming view of Governing Body members (as expressed in questionnaire responses in 2012), that:- 
 a) there should be provision for women to be consecrated as bishops in the Church in Wales, 
 b) there should be recognition and provision allowed for those who in individual conscience dissent from this move, 
while also keeping faith with other aims, as expressed:- 
 a) in 2008 – that provisions for conscience should not be included in the body of  formal legislation, 
 b) in 2012 – that legislation should not include structural provision to accommodate dissent. [My emphasis - Ed.]

That there should be women bishops in the Church in Wales gets over a covenanting hurdle but in the light of 10.1.6 above (That this bishop will be a bishop in the Church Uniting in Wales and will share collegiality and full interchangeability with all the other bishops of that Church), the agreed amendment to the bishops' Bill "that legislation should not include structural provision to accommodate dissent" now looks particularly spiteful if structural provision were thought credible.


  1. It doesn't say anything about abolishing the Apostolic Succession !?
    So how is a person in the Baptist Church suddenly to become a Bishop when that person has never been ordained to the priesthood ? It seems a bit like the police force where the plan is to choose a Chief Constable from an outside industry.
    So all sorts sects may have a Bishop, but traditional Anglo- Catholics may not.
    What a holy muddle. Archbishop Barry will have ,at last, his own Protestant Church of Wales.

  2. Spiteful describes the situation perfectly.

  3. The Church in Wales says it is part on the One Holy Catholic Church, which church believes that our Bishops are consecrated within the Apostolic Succession. A Bishop is an overseer ,but not simply a manager . It is outrageous that the proposed non -conformist 'bishops' would be interchangeable with the Bishops duly appointed in the Church in Wales. The non conformist ministers will not have been ordained in the Apostolic succession , and as far as I can understand cannot be Bishops of the One Holy Catholic Church.
    This is the absolute end of any prospect of unity between the (Roman) Catholic Church and the Anglican Church, that is assuming the the line in the sand has not already been carved out by the women Bishops Bill.
    Why,Ancient Briton, is there so little response to this blog? Are your readers too aghast?

  4. No-one on this blog seems to have picked up on the facts that ++Barry has had the RB taking over and spending £1.7million refurbishing St Michaels' College and keeping it going since 2007. But The Church Times reports that the 15 staff have now been called to meetings and another "consultation process" initiated. The staff at St Michael's had better remember what happened to the Cathedral Choir last December and start looking for new jobs now.

    1. Llandaff Pewster14 April 2014 at 22:19

      According to Anna Morrell, all is well at St. Mike's.
      But "business as usual" actually means losing another £150k

  5. The unity scheme is rather reminiscent of the late Ronald Knox's Reunion All Round

  6. Llandaff Pewster15 April 2014 at 15:16

    ++Barry's darkness continues to spread

    1. To summarise.
      £1.7 million refurbishment since 2007.
      £150,000 per annum since 2007 to keep the place financially afloat = £900,000.
      Another £150,000 for 2014, 2015 and 2016 until the place can be closed = £450,000
      This for a college that was a dead duck and put up for sale in 2004.
      Grand total of the profligacy = £3,050,000.

      If such a sum of money had been invested by the RB into a Choral Foundation for Llandaff Cathedral Choir, it's future would have been secured into perpetuity.
      As things now stand, Wales (the land of song) has neither a professional Cathedral nor a Theological College.

      ++Darth Insidious must be so proud of himself.
      When are the good people of the Church in Wales going to wake up to the reality and sack him?
      He should be impeached, stripped of office and lose his pension to help repay the losses that have occurred on his watch.
      It must be obvious by now to all and sundry that Barry couldn't run a bath successfully.

    2. Sorry, I omitted the word Choir, and this should have read
      Wales (the land of song) has neither a professional Cathedral Choir nor a Theological College.

  7. For God's sake impeach the Archbishop15 April 2014 at 20:41

    It seems that nepotism is not dead in Llandaff either.
    Having been thwarted in appointing his wife as Diocesan Registrar (due in no small part to negative publicity on this blog) it is alleged that David Lambert's replacement is none other than the daughter of Canon Mari and Judge Philip Price.
    As usual, wheels within wheels in ++Barry's demesne.