I see Bishop Morris is to be licensed as a parish priest in St Asaph Diocese. I didn’t think he would have the good sense or humility to do that, and I’m pleased to note I was wrong. I hope it goes well for him and for the parish, and he learns what he needs to about healthy leadership along the way.
I'm delighted that perhaps your views regarding David Morris have mellowed, Duddleswell. The fact is that while he was so cruelly betrayed and 'prosecuted' by his Bench of Bishop peers as scapegoat for the gross failings of others - including them - he was overwhelmingly loved, respected and regarded by the mass of Bangor diocese congregants (the cathedral particularly) and if truth be told, many of the clergy - but clergy without the spine to speak out in his defence.
Sion ap Rhys had that ability to fool if not threaten all in his cross-hairs who stood in the way of his machinations. David was one of the few who saw through it and acted. The bag of worms which was then exposed, then also exposed the ineptitude of the RB, GB and Bench of Bishobs. David now was in the gun-sight.
If there were a Clacton-like by-election in Bangor to decide a new bishop with only two candidates, David Morris or the Reverend Binface there is little doubt the outcome. It's just pity there can't be.
The standing ovation he received after delivering his 'farewell' sermon at Bangor Cathedral spoke volumes. Anyone with eyes focussed on ++Cherry's reaction when she recognised the swell of spontaneous respect he had would have clocked her embarrassment as the likely mistakes that had been made; she at the helm.
Mind you [Breaking News] David might prefer to stay well clear of Bangor. Word is that having been booted out of Bangor Cathedral, booted out of his high earning job in some Cambridge college, Sion ap Rhys has now also been booted out of his London luxury love-nest and has returned, jobless, to live with mummy in Anglesey. One wonders if he still holds his 'licence to officiate' and if yes, why?
I sincerely hope David will do well. Im sure as I am as sicophantic as ad clerum, though. Popularity does not, and rarely, goes hand-in-hand with competence. Looking sincere whilst also lookong over your shoulder to see the next most important person in the room is a well sharpened skill for him.
However, he wad put in a position he shouldnt have been put in and simply did not have the expereince to be the wise leader he needed to be. And for that he has my overwhelming sympathy. The health of the apple can be corrupted by the rotteness of the barrel.
Has sion ap R been through any disciplinary tribunal of the cinw?
However, David’s conduct reveals a striking disparity between the values he professes and those he demonstrates.. Faced with the opportunity to support those who he could plainly see needed it, he instead appeared to favour deference to authority over integrity and moral courage. Such sycophantic tendencies may bring short-term (as it turns out) advantage, but they seldom earn lasting respect. Everyone would do well to remember the dywediad, be careful who you tread upon on the way up, for they are often the very people you meet on the way back down. A leopard rarely changes its spots and, based on nights of wine fuelled activity with David while I served on the Bishop’s staff before my move to the Diocese of Llandaff, I have little reason to believe he is any different today, "Dydw i ddim yn meddwl y gellir ymddiried ynddo fe."
Serving on 'the bishop's staff' is nothing I would be particularly boastful of, but Organ Player's indiscretions ref 'fuelled activity' with +David questions the integrity of the blogger. With friends like him who needs enemies. As a former bishop's staff member, Organ Player ought to know the correct channels for raising complaints. Ancient Briton is not one of them.
You're taking the Michael. Have you tried using the "correct channels"? Total waste of time and effort. Ask the two Davids, or at least the one who's still with us, about how their representations and concerns about the Llandaff Organ Appeal fiddle were received. How do you think "I am the accuser" Caiaphas earned her well deserved epithet? For an observer you're peculiarly unobservant, are you a planker perchance?
For the record, Subversive Canon, yes I do know how the CORRECT channels of raising concerns (and complaints) work when applied. Here in Bangor, a long-standing congregant of the cathedral raised some serious allegations against a particular 'senior' clergyperson of the diocese.
He set his grievance out in e.mail to Archbishop Vann on a Saturday morning. By the afternoon he'd swiftly received an 'acknowledgement' receipt from ++Vann and on the Sunday another asking if he would be prepared to allow her to 'deal' with the problem or whether he wished to procedurally formalise it. He chose the former.
The complained-of cleric was contacted by ++Vann that Sunday afternoon and hauled down to Monmouth on the Monday. ++Vann e.mailed precis to the complainant on Monday confirming that they had spoken and that he could expect a fulsome, personal, apology from the cleric in short-order. The apology was duely proffered - although apparently through gritted teeth. The matter had been resolved. For good measure, the complainant later found that the said 'cleric' had been removed from one of his more cherished appointments. Job Done.
I too had similar 'good outcome' experience with the late +Bishop Anthony Crocket in Bangor. I raised a serious complaint against a well known Bangor priest with him; he listened and offered me the same option: 'leave it with me or go through the process'. The former seemed the faster and easier route. Within four days, that particular priest had been fully removed from his office and 'living' and persuaded to take his 'vocation' elsewhere. He did. He had no choice.
Both examples, Subversive Canon, executed via the correct channels without any 'subversion' which you appear proud to boast.
So when you ask whether I am 'taking the Michael' I'll suggest that you ought perhaps not Take the Piss. There are those on Ancient Briton's site who are not to be minced with. Meanwhile, I remain in full admiration for folk like +David Morris who refuse to rise to the disloyalty of former colleagues who he may or may not have enjoyed a glass or two of wine as reported by cringe Organ Player.
I’m not one to normally comment t, however A Observer, I have to say, Fascinating….Two anecdotes, several bishops, a handful of personal endorsements and somehow we’ve arrived at the conclusion that everyone else’s experience must therefore be invalid. That’s rather like insisting the NHS has no waiting lists because your own appointment started on time. Your entitled postulating is nauseous, every example ends with you or the subject of your attempts at validating your position emerging vindicated and the subject of the complaint dispatched. It makes for an entertaining memoir, but a rather less convincing argument that the Church’s complaints process is equitable, impartial and worthy of universal confidence. I think it is rather you that is ‘ cymryd y piss ‘ you appear quiet frankly to be no more than a chwilen ddu.. which is exactly why I have been moved to comment….
Experiences may vary, considerably. By all means speak as you find but others must be able to do likewise. AO is the only person I've ever heard of speaking positively about the process and outcomes. The smart money says the disgruntled mistreated outnumber the satisfied by multiples. Bewildered
Maybe there are two Rob Jones's; one of them isn't him and the other seems to think we're all daft or as Converted Exile observes: 'a lot more stupid' than he was while in Bangor.. Rob Jones (the real one, not the one that's not him) would reasonably give himself the moniker 'Organ Player' as he was an 'Organ Scholar' at Bangor. There was only one member of +Andrew's Staff who deserted his post to take refuge in Llandaff: Rob Jones the Organ Player. Rob Jones (the real one not the 'its not me' one) was part of the cathedral cabal and close enough to +David to share a few social slurps of wine ... hence his outburst here. So, Rob Jones it is. Yep, the same one who shares something in common with that other loopy-tune castration Sion ap Rhys: both were ordained against all warnings not to by the equally failed bishop Andy John. Further example of ++John's astonishing failures
I don’t know Mr Jones, so have no idea if it is him or not. But if it is, whilst I would never seek to silence anyone who wishes to publicly identify inappropriate behaviour by clerics, provided they do so entirely accurately and truthfully to the best of their knowledge and understanding, I would advise proceeding with caution. I’m all for being honest if the person disclosing has also been involved, but as they warn when giving testimony as a witness in the Courts, a witness can so very easily incriminate themselves and find they, too, are facing allegations. In this case, if the behaviour is inappropriate for a Bishop, is it also inappropriate for a priest, or indeed an ordinand going through discernment?
If you didn't want to be identified, why would you give so many identifying features? But it has gained you attention, so i suppose mission accomplished.
To be honest, something very dodgy was going on with that whole gang. The archdeacon, the sub dean, the Archbishops chaplain, the assistant bishop, and whatever mr jones' status was at the time. How mange tout has made it through this unscathed is beyond belief.
If a certain Bishop elect (Manon) ever translates to my diocese then I will be handing in my License and heading to greener pastures. She is poison Organ Players butt pimple
If anybody is in need of a diverting amusement on this hot day even across the pond, do have a look at the introductory video from old ‘by name and by nature’ ex of St Paddywhack’s now of Emmanuel Theological College. Apart from the strange delivery of the words, take a good look at the hand gestures…. I’ll say no more!! Here’s the link to the Facebook page: https://fb.watch/InqIaDWNw-/?
Sad thing is, they have moved the St Padarns Problems sideways to another training institute, to an episcopal position and yet some of the rot still remains as the incompetent director of formation is still in post. Duffmans gut
I’m not sure that that’s completely correct although prepared to be corrected, I believe whilst he has notoriously no back bone he did have an opposing view to the ofnadwy Copyn Manon…
As predicted, the Manon pre-installation exodus of key staff at Bangor has already begun. Two already quit in the past week alone including her personally hand-picked cathedral 'operations manager' who couldn't even wait to see out his notice or probationary period and another far more senior. Presumably this is just the warm-up before some of the diocesan clergy up-sticks too. Watch this space. 'Ofnadwy' indeed.
In many organisations, advancement is not always determined solely by competence or the ability to lead or inspire others effectively. Some individuals become highly skilled at “managing upwards,” devoting considerable effort to impressing senior leaders through confidence, polished presentations, and visible displays of loyalty, while those who work alongside or report to them may experience poor leadership, manipulation, or a lack of genuine support. Because those like Vann rarely observes the realities of day-to-day operations, they often rely on reports, meetings, and carefully curated outcomes that can present a selective picture of performance. Organisational politics also plays a significant role; the ability to cultivate influential relationships, avoid blame, and build strategic alliances can be rewarded even when these skills are not matched by effective leadership. Psychological research has further shown that confidence is frequently mistaken for competence, meaning that those who project certainty are often perceived as more capable than they actually are. Similarly, managers may receive disproportionate credit for the achievements of high-performing teams, while responsibility for failures is attributed elsewhere. The proof as reports of the premature exodus from Bangor Demonstrates. This dynamic can contribute to what is commonly known as the Peter Principle, whereby individuals are promoted because they appeared successful in a previous role rather than because they possess the qualities required for the next one, although it has to be said…this positioning of Manon was as clear as day to those who cared to see back as far as her failed attempts at becoming the Bishop of St Davids. It is also important to distinguish between being unpopular because one makes difficult but necessary decisions and being ineffective as a leader; genuine leadership is measured not by appearances or political success, but by the ability to develop others, inspire trust, foster accountability, and consistently deliver results through the people one leads. Non of these qualities are applicable to this particular nasty individual. God help Bangor.
Whoever St Asaph Regular is he/she is spot on in his/her assessment of senior career progress in 'corporate' organisations. I can vouch for it. I worked for a couple of them (Big Boys) to director and executive board level and as industry advisor to the then Sec. of State Employment. Even in lower-management level appointments, most if not all medium-large companies deploy the advanced accuracy of psychometric testing specifically set to whatever strengths or weaknesses needed. Then exhaustive rounds of background checks, references, previous career opinons from independent outsiders etc. To become a Bishop in Wales (?) Cosy up to equally unqualified 'pobol pwysig' write a letter proposing yourself as a self-proclaimed highly competent person, buy a 1st Class Royal Mail stamp, post it off and wait until the Board of Incompetents gifts you your Mitre. What Toy Town practise this is. It smacks of cronyism (sometimes nepotism) the Bench of Tossers keen only to appoint another inadequate who won't outshine them. The whole thing needs urgent overhaul.
When in the Church of England, I haven’t found it that much better there, just more people involved and different. It’s still about who you know and crawl to, as there’s a list held centrally of suitable people - both suitable now and suitable in the future. Only Diocesan Bishops can put people on that list, so if your face doesn’t fit, you don’t go on it. When it comes time to appoint a Diocesan bishop a combination of central panel members (who are all members of General Synod) and Diocesan people (appointed by insiders in a Diocese) do the appointing. Again, if your face doesn’t fit you don’t get on those Panels, nor does your paperwork ever get put before them as a candidate. When it comes to appointing Suffragan Bishops, the Diocesan Bishop has the last say, and s/he takes advice from a Panel put together for that purpose. So if your face doesn’t fit, you have no say who gets on the Panel, won’t get to be on it, and your name will never come up in its discussions. I’ve first hand experience of what happens when suggestions of names are asked for in adverts placed publicly and the names aren’t considered ‘suitable’ by those receiving them - they’re carefully forgotten about without any investigation or asking around about their abilities - I’ve been in the room when it’s happened, on more than one occasion.
Many will have seen the Bench's proclamation about the recent High Court judgement regarding the legal situation of transgender persons. How far is it possible for a cleric to disagree with the Bench's statement and remain in the Church in Wales?
"The publication of the EHRC's Draft Code of Practice has caused fresh pain and anxiety to many trans people. We want to respond clearly.
"A year ago, following the Supreme Court's ruling, we said that every human being is a precious child of God, deserving of dignity and respect. We say so again today - without qualification.
"The Code tells organisations what the law permits. It does not tell us who we are as the Body of Christ. We are not called to the legal minimum of hospitality. We are called to the radical welcome of the one who sought out the excluded and the overlooked. The Church in Wales will not use equality law exemptions to exclude trans people from our worship, our sacraments, our pastoral care, or our common life.
"We ask all our churches to be places of genuine sanctuary for trans people and their families, especially now. And we call on public bodies to pursue a way forward that upholds the dignity of all, rather than treating the protection of some rights as justification for eroding others.
"To trans people in Wales, in our congregations and who serve God faithfully in the Church: you are known. You are loved. You are welcome here, as you are, always."
T
We affirm that every trans person is a precious child of God, and a beloved part of the life of this Church.
This statement leaves me saddened and deeply concerned, not because it speaks of dignity, compassion and welcome, but because it does so with scarcely any reference to the authority of Holy Scripture or the faith the Church has received, presumably written by some legal beagle at the square rather than from an ecclesiastical heart. Let us remember the Church does not exist to echo the moral language of the age, however sincerely expressed. It exists to proclaim Jesus Christ, crucified and risen, and to remain faithful to the truth He has entrusted to His Church. Our calling is not to accommodate the spirit of the age, but to be continually reformed by the Word of God. Every person is made in the image of God and should be treated with dignity, love and respect. That has always been the Church’s teaching. But love without truth is sentimentality, and welcome without discipleship is not the Gospel. Christ welcomed all who came to Him, yet He always called people to follow Him, to deny themselves, and to live under His lordship. Not to suit the imagination and whims of individuals, how ever elevated they have managed to become… What is most striking is what this statement omits. There is no engagement with Scripture. No attempt to show how its conclusions arise from the teaching of Christ or the apostles. No recognition of the Church’s historic understanding of creation, humanity or holiness. Instead, it presents a conclusion and assumes the Church should simply accept it. That should concern every Christian, whatever their theological tradition or position on this blog. The authority of the Church does not rest in its ability to reflect contemporary values or reassure a changing culture and it is no good presenting it as an institution that does just because of recent senior appointments. Its authority rests in its faithfulness to the Word of God. When the Church speaks without clearly grounding itself in Scripture, it weakens its own witness, I’m sure this is not what was intended but has in my humble opinion, been achieved, again probably because of those advising knowing very little about reality and the arrogance of assumptions. This statement gives the impression that the Church’s first responsibility is to affirm the assumptions of the present age rather than to proclaim the eternal Gospel. That is a profound mistake. The Church is not called to sanctify the culture’s understanding of the human person, but to proclaim God’s revelation of what it means to be human in Christ. If we cease to let Scripture shape our pastoral practice, then it is no longer Scripture that governs the Church. The language of compassion remains, but its foundation begins to shift. That is not renewal. It is accommodation. The Church has faced this temptation in every generation, to soften its witness so that it better reflects the values of the surrounding world. It has never been strengthened by doing so. Its faithfulness has always depended on its willingness to stand under the authority of God’s Word, even when that Word is difficult, costly or deeply unfashionable, currently the CiW seems to be capitulating to the weakest, possibly as it is lead by the weakest…. My prayer is that the Church will once again find the confidence to speak first with the voice of Scripture, not the voice of the age; to love every person without partiality, while refusing to surrender the truth that has been entrusted to the saints, to put some meaning behind the rhetoric.
All are precious but some are more precious than others apparently. It is all covered by Scripture The Trans drivel is the new religion and was only invented in the last three decades, but had it existed two millennia ago they would have been treated as mentally ill and their demons cast out into pigs
Disgraceful, dehumanising and degrading comment from Menai. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself for not only misappropriating scripture but also diminishing and demonising trans people with your offensive and pernicious language.
100% agree, Deiniol. Abhorrent, Menai. Abhorrent.When Jesus cast out spirits into swine he was liberating a suffering human being from the scapegoating forces that degraded his humanity and isolated him from his community. Christ’s ministry was always about restoration, dignity, and wholeness, never about dehumanising people. While medical understandings surrounding gender identity have evolved in recent years, diverse experiences of gender have existed across cultures and centuries for millennia. What has remained a constant is the destructive phobia of things we don't fully understand. The drivel is yours, Menai.
Interesting exercise in diversion right there….are we really as ‘green’ as to not see that this disgusting comment was designed to distract from the worrying topic in question, st Asaph seems to have hit more than one nerve. I’m with him/her.
Larry noMates and Oxygen thief.
ReplyDeleteDoes it still draw breath?
Alive and still ordaining. A witness to us all.
DeletePadarn.
Witless is nearer the mark.
DeleteA bully and all round bad egg.
I see Bishop Morris is to be licensed as a parish priest in St Asaph Diocese. I didn’t think he would have the good sense or humility to do that, and I’m pleased to note I was wrong. I hope it goes well for him and for the parish, and he learns what he needs to about healthy leadership along the way.
ReplyDeleteI'm delighted that perhaps your views regarding David Morris have mellowed, Duddleswell. The fact is that while he was so cruelly betrayed and 'prosecuted' by his Bench of Bishop peers as scapegoat for the gross failings of others - including them - he was overwhelmingly loved, respected and regarded by the mass of Bangor diocese congregants (the cathedral particularly) and if truth be told, many of the clergy - but clergy without the spine to speak out in his defence.
DeleteSion ap Rhys had that ability to fool if not threaten all in his cross-hairs who stood in the way of his machinations. David was one of the few who saw through it and acted. The bag of worms which was then exposed, then also exposed the ineptitude of the RB, GB and Bench of Bishobs. David now was in the gun-sight.
If there were a Clacton-like by-election in Bangor to decide a new bishop with only two candidates, David Morris or the Reverend Binface there is little doubt the outcome. It's just pity there can't be.
The standing ovation he received after delivering his 'farewell' sermon at Bangor Cathedral spoke volumes. Anyone with eyes focussed on ++Cherry's reaction when she recognised the swell of spontaneous respect he had would have clocked her embarrassment as the likely mistakes that had been made; she at the helm.
Mind you [Breaking News] David might prefer to stay well clear of Bangor. Word is that having been booted out of Bangor Cathedral, booted out of his high earning job in some Cambridge college, Sion ap Rhys has now also been booted out of his London luxury love-nest and has returned, jobless, to live with mummy in Anglesey. One wonders if he still holds his 'licence to officiate' and if yes, why?
With the Menai Suspension Bridge almost permanently closed, how on earth was Sion ap-Rhys Evans able to travel back to Anglesey to live with 'mummy'?
DeleteCan he REALLY walk on water???
No, I should think he purchased a magic carpet as part of his bulk buy from the Temu Tat Emporium when created Ersatz Cardinal…
DeleteI sincerely hope David will do well. Im sure as I am as sicophantic as ad clerum, though. Popularity does not, and rarely, goes hand-in-hand with competence. Looking sincere whilst also lookong over your shoulder to see the next most important person in the room is a well sharpened skill for him.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he wad put in a position he shouldnt have been put in and simply did not have the expereince to be the wise leader he needed to be. And for that he has my overwhelming sympathy. The health of the apple can be corrupted by the rotteness of the barrel.
Has sion ap R been through any disciplinary tribunal of the cinw?
Converted exile
However, David’s conduct reveals a striking disparity between the values he professes and those he demonstrates.. Faced with the opportunity to support those who he could plainly see needed it, he instead appeared to favour deference to authority over integrity and moral courage. Such sycophantic tendencies may bring short-term (as it turns out) advantage, but they seldom earn lasting respect. Everyone would do well to remember the dywediad, be careful who you tread upon on the way up, for they are often the very people you meet on the way back down. A leopard rarely changes its spots and, based on nights of wine fuelled activity with David while I served on the Bishop’s staff before my move to the Diocese of Llandaff, I have little reason to believe he is any different today, "Dydw i ddim yn meddwl y gellir ymddiried ynddo fe."
DeleteServing on 'the bishop's staff' is nothing I would be particularly boastful of, but Organ Player's indiscretions ref 'fuelled activity' with +David questions the integrity of the blogger. With friends like him who needs enemies. As a former bishop's staff member, Organ Player ought to know the correct channels for raising complaints. Ancient Briton is not one of them.
DeleteYou're taking the Michael.
DeleteHave you tried using the "correct channels"?
Total waste of time and effort.
Ask the two Davids, or at least the one who's still with us, about how their representations and concerns about the Llandaff Organ Appeal fiddle were received.
How do you think "I am the accuser" Caiaphas earned her well deserved epithet?
For an observer you're peculiarly unobservant, are you a planker perchance?
For the record, Subversive Canon, yes I do know how the CORRECT channels of raising concerns (and complaints) work when applied. Here in Bangor, a long-standing congregant of the cathedral raised some serious allegations against a particular 'senior' clergyperson of the diocese.
DeleteHe set his grievance out in e.mail to Archbishop Vann on a Saturday morning. By the afternoon he'd swiftly received an 'acknowledgement' receipt from ++Vann and on the Sunday another asking if he would be prepared to allow her to 'deal' with the problem or whether he wished to procedurally formalise it. He chose the former.
The complained-of cleric was contacted by ++Vann that Sunday afternoon and hauled down to Monmouth on the Monday. ++Vann e.mailed precis to the complainant on Monday confirming that they had spoken and that he could expect a fulsome, personal, apology from the cleric in short-order. The apology was duely proffered - although apparently through gritted teeth. The matter had been resolved. For good measure, the complainant later found that the said 'cleric' had been removed from one of his more cherished appointments. Job Done.
I too had similar 'good outcome' experience with the late +Bishop Anthony Crocket in Bangor. I raised a serious complaint against a well known Bangor priest with him; he listened and offered me the same option: 'leave it with me or go through the process'. The former seemed the faster and easier route. Within four days, that particular priest had been fully removed from his office and 'living' and persuaded to take his 'vocation' elsewhere. He did. He had no choice.
Both examples, Subversive Canon, executed via the correct channels without any 'subversion' which you appear proud to boast.
So when you ask whether I am 'taking the Michael' I'll suggest that you ought perhaps not Take the Piss. There are those on Ancient Briton's site who are not to be minced with. Meanwhile, I remain in full admiration for folk like +David Morris who refuse to rise to the disloyalty of former colleagues who he may or may not have enjoyed a glass or two of wine as reported by cringe Organ Player.
I’m not one to normally comment t, however A Observer, I have to say, Fascinating….Two anecdotes, several bishops, a handful of personal endorsements and somehow we’ve arrived at the conclusion that everyone else’s experience must therefore be invalid. That’s rather like insisting the NHS has no waiting lists because your own appointment started on time. Your entitled postulating is nauseous, every example ends with you or the subject of your attempts at validating your position emerging vindicated and the subject of the complaint dispatched. It makes for an entertaining memoir, but a rather less convincing argument that the Church’s complaints process is equitable, impartial and worthy of universal confidence. I think it is rather you that is ‘ cymryd y piss ‘ you appear quiet frankly to be no more than a chwilen ddu.. which is exactly why I have been moved to comment….
DeleteExperiences may vary, considerably.
DeleteBy all means speak as you find but others must be able to do likewise.
AO is the only person I've ever heard of speaking positively about the process and outcomes.
The smart money says the disgruntled mistreated outnumber the satisfied by multiples.
Bewildered
Either Rob Jones has become a lot more stupid since i last saw him or someone wants us to think its rob jones.
ReplyDeleteConverted exile
I don’t think it’s ok to use names. It’s not me.
DeleteMaybe there are two Rob Jones's; one of them isn't him and the other seems to think we're all daft or as Converted Exile observes: 'a lot more stupid' than he was while in Bangor.. Rob Jones (the real one, not the one that's not him) would reasonably give himself the moniker 'Organ Player' as he was an 'Organ Scholar' at Bangor.
DeleteThere was only one member of +Andrew's Staff who deserted his post to take refuge in Llandaff: Rob Jones the Organ Player.
Rob Jones (the real one not the 'its not me' one) was part of the cathedral cabal and close enough to +David to share a few social slurps of wine ... hence his outburst here.
So, Rob Jones it is. Yep, the same one who shares something in common with that other loopy-tune castration Sion ap Rhys: both were ordained against all warnings not to by the equally failed bishop Andy John. Further example of ++John's astonishing failures
Ceri llan, I and my partner are happy in Llandaff, you on the other hand seem bitter and sad…enough said.
DeleteI don’t know Mr Jones, so have no idea if it is him or not. But if it is, whilst I would never seek to silence anyone who wishes to publicly identify inappropriate behaviour by clerics, provided they do so entirely accurately and truthfully to the best of their knowledge and understanding, I would advise proceeding with caution. I’m all for being honest if the person disclosing has also been involved, but as they warn when giving testimony as a witness in the Courts, a witness can so very easily incriminate themselves and find they, too, are facing allegations. In this case, if the behaviour is inappropriate for a Bishop, is it also inappropriate for a priest, or indeed an ordinand going through discernment?
ReplyDeleteIf you didn't want to be identified, why would you give so many identifying features? But it has gained you attention, so i suppose mission accomplished.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, something very dodgy was going on with that whole gang. The archdeacon, the sub dean, the Archbishops chaplain, the assistant bishop, and whatever mr jones' status was at the time. How mange tout has made it through this unscathed is beyond belief.
Converted exile
…there’s time yet!!
DeleteIf a certain Bishop elect (Manon) ever translates to my diocese then I will be handing in my License and heading to greener pastures. She is poison
ReplyDeleteOrgan Players butt pimple
If anybody is in need of a diverting amusement on this hot day even across the pond, do have a look at the introductory video from old ‘by name and by nature’ ex of St Paddywhack’s now of Emmanuel Theological College. Apart from the strange delivery of the words, take a good look at the hand gestures…. I’ll say no more!! Here’s the link to the Facebook page: https://fb.watch/InqIaDWNw-/?
ReplyDeleteSad thing is, they have moved the St Padarns Problems sideways to another training institute, to an episcopal position and yet some of the rot still remains as the incompetent director of formation is still in post.
DeleteDuffmans gut
I’m not sure that that’s completely correct although prepared to be corrected, I believe whilst he has notoriously no back bone he did have an opposing view to the ofnadwy Copyn Manon…
DeleteAs predicted, the Manon pre-installation exodus of key staff at Bangor has already begun. Two already quit in the past week alone including her personally hand-picked cathedral 'operations manager' who couldn't even wait to see out his notice or probationary period and another far more senior.
DeletePresumably this is just the warm-up before some of the diocesan clergy up-sticks too.
Watch this space. 'Ofnadwy' indeed.
In many organisations, advancement is not always determined solely by competence or the ability to lead or inspire others effectively. Some individuals become highly skilled at “managing upwards,” devoting considerable effort to impressing senior leaders through confidence, polished presentations, and visible displays of loyalty, while those who work alongside or report to them may experience poor leadership, manipulation, or a lack of genuine support. Because those like Vann rarely observes the realities of day-to-day operations, they often rely on reports, meetings, and carefully curated outcomes that can present a selective picture of performance. Organisational politics also plays a significant role; the ability to cultivate influential relationships, avoid blame, and build strategic alliances can be rewarded even when these skills are not matched by effective leadership. Psychological research has further shown that confidence is frequently mistaken for competence, meaning that those who project certainty are often perceived as more capable than they actually are. Similarly, managers may receive disproportionate credit for the achievements of high-performing teams, while responsibility for failures is attributed elsewhere. The proof as reports of the premature exodus from Bangor Demonstrates. This dynamic can contribute to what is commonly known as the Peter Principle, whereby individuals are promoted because they appeared successful in a previous role rather than because they possess the qualities required for the next one, although it has to be said…this positioning of Manon was as clear as day to those who cared to see back as far as her failed attempts at becoming the Bishop of St Davids.
DeleteIt is also important to distinguish between being unpopular because one makes difficult but necessary decisions and being ineffective as a leader; genuine leadership is measured not by appearances or political success, but by the ability to develop others, inspire trust, foster accountability, and consistently deliver results through the people one leads. Non of these qualities are applicable to this particular nasty individual. God help Bangor.
Whoever St Asaph Regular is he/she is spot on in his/her assessment of senior career progress in 'corporate' organisations. I can vouch for it. I worked for a couple of them (Big Boys) to director and executive board level and as industry advisor to the then Sec. of State Employment.
DeleteEven in lower-management level appointments, most if not all medium-large companies deploy the advanced accuracy of psychometric testing specifically set to whatever strengths or weaknesses needed. Then exhaustive rounds of background checks, references, previous career opinons from independent outsiders etc.
To become a Bishop in Wales (?) Cosy up to equally unqualified 'pobol pwysig' write a letter proposing yourself as a self-proclaimed highly competent person, buy a 1st Class Royal Mail stamp, post it off and wait until the Board of Incompetents gifts you your Mitre. What Toy Town practise this is. It smacks of cronyism (sometimes nepotism) the Bench of Tossers keen only to appoint another inadequate who won't outshine them.
The whole thing needs urgent overhaul.
When in the Church of England, I haven’t found it that much better there, just more people involved and different. It’s still about who you know and crawl to, as there’s a list held centrally of suitable people - both suitable now and suitable in the future. Only Diocesan Bishops can put people on that list, so if your face doesn’t fit, you don’t go on it. When it comes time to appoint a Diocesan bishop a combination of central panel members (who are all members of General Synod) and Diocesan people (appointed by insiders in a Diocese) do the appointing. Again, if your face doesn’t fit you don’t get on those Panels, nor does your paperwork ever get put before them as a candidate. When it comes to appointing Suffragan Bishops, the Diocesan Bishop has the last say, and s/he takes advice from a Panel put together for that purpose. So if your face doesn’t fit, you have no say who gets on the Panel, won’t get to be on it, and your name will never come up in its discussions. I’ve first hand experience of what happens when suggestions of names are asked for in adverts placed publicly and the names aren’t considered ‘suitable’ by those receiving them - they’re carefully forgotten about without any investigation or asking around about their abilities - I’ve been in the room when it’s happened, on more than one occasion.
DeleteChanging the subject.
ReplyDeleteMany will have seen the Bench's proclamation about the recent High Court judgement regarding the legal situation of transgender persons. How far is it possible for a cleric to disagree with the Bench's statement and remain in the Church in Wales?
Link please?
DeleteMeh!
DeletePast caring
And yet here you are.
DeleteHere is the Statement:
ReplyDelete"The publication of the EHRC's Draft Code of Practice has caused fresh pain and anxiety to many trans people. We want to respond clearly.
"A year ago, following the Supreme Court's ruling, we said that every human being is a precious child of God, deserving of dignity and respect. We say so again today - without qualification.
"The Code tells organisations what the law permits. It does not tell us who we are as the Body of Christ. We are not called to the legal minimum of hospitality. We are called to the radical welcome of the one who sought out the excluded and the overlooked. The Church in Wales will not use equality law exemptions to exclude trans people from our worship, our sacraments, our pastoral care, or our common life.
"We ask all our churches to be places of genuine sanctuary for trans people and their families, especially now. And we call on public bodies to pursue a way forward that upholds the dignity of all, rather than treating the protection of some rights as justification for eroding others.
"To trans people in Wales, in our congregations and who serve God faithfully in the Church: you are known. You are loved. You are welcome here, as you are, always."
T
We affirm that every trans person is a precious child of God, and a beloved part of the life of this Church.
This statement leaves me saddened and deeply concerned, not because it speaks of dignity, compassion and welcome, but because it does so with scarcely any reference to the authority of Holy Scripture or the faith the Church has received, presumably written by some legal beagle at the square rather than from an ecclesiastical heart.
DeleteLet us remember the Church does not exist to echo the moral language of the age, however sincerely expressed. It exists to proclaim Jesus Christ, crucified and risen, and to remain faithful to the truth He has entrusted to His Church. Our calling is not to accommodate the spirit of the age, but to be continually reformed by the Word of God.
Every person is made in the image of God and should be treated with dignity, love and respect. That has always been the Church’s teaching. But love without truth is sentimentality, and welcome without discipleship is not the Gospel. Christ welcomed all who came to Him, yet He always called people to follow Him, to deny themselves, and to live under His lordship. Not to suit the imagination and whims of individuals, how ever elevated they have managed to become…
What is most striking is what this statement omits. There is no engagement with Scripture. No attempt to show how its conclusions arise from the teaching of Christ or the apostles. No recognition of the Church’s historic understanding of creation, humanity or holiness. Instead, it presents a conclusion and assumes the Church should simply accept it.
That should concern every Christian, whatever their theological tradition or position on this blog. The authority of the Church does not rest in its ability to reflect contemporary values or reassure a changing culture and it is no good presenting it as an institution that does just because of recent senior appointments. Its authority rests in its faithfulness to the Word of God. When the Church speaks without clearly grounding itself in Scripture, it weakens its own witness, I’m sure this is not what was intended but has in my humble opinion, been achieved, again probably because of those advising knowing very little about reality and the arrogance of assumptions.
This statement gives the impression that the Church’s first responsibility is to affirm the assumptions of the present age rather than to proclaim the eternal Gospel. That is a profound mistake. The Church is not called to sanctify the culture’s understanding of the human person, but to proclaim God’s revelation of what it means to be human in Christ.
If we cease to let Scripture shape our pastoral practice, then it is no longer Scripture that governs the Church. The language of compassion remains, but its foundation begins to shift. That is not renewal. It is accommodation.
The Church has faced this temptation in every generation, to soften its witness so that it better reflects the values of the surrounding world. It has never been strengthened by doing so. Its faithfulness has always depended on its willingness to stand under the authority of God’s Word, even when that Word is difficult, costly or deeply unfashionable, currently the CiW
seems to be capitulating to the weakest, possibly as it is lead by the weakest….
My prayer is that the Church will once again find the confidence to speak first with the voice of Scripture, not the voice of the age; to love every person without partiality, while refusing to surrender the truth that has been entrusted to the saints, to put some meaning behind the rhetoric.
All are precious but some are more precious than others apparently.
DeleteIt is all covered by Scripture
The Trans drivel is the new religion and was only invented in the last three decades, but had it existed two millennia ago they would have been treated as mentally ill and their demons cast out into pigs
Disgraceful, dehumanising and degrading comment from Menai. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself for not only misappropriating scripture but also diminishing and demonising trans people with your offensive and pernicious language.
DeleteDeiniol
100% agree, Deiniol. Abhorrent, Menai. Abhorrent.When Jesus cast out spirits into swine he was liberating a suffering human being from the scapegoating forces that degraded his humanity and isolated him from his community. Christ’s ministry was always about restoration, dignity, and wholeness, never about dehumanising people. While medical understandings surrounding gender identity have evolved in recent years, diverse experiences of gender have existed across cultures and centuries for millennia. What has remained a constant is the destructive phobia of things we don't fully understand. The drivel is yours, Menai.
DeleteTheGerasene
Interesting exercise in diversion right there….are we really as ‘green’ as to not see that this disgusting comment was designed to distract from the worrying topic in question, st Asaph seems to have hit more than one nerve. I’m with him/her.
ReplyDelete