Jackson: I feel sure the management and shareholders of other collapsed and now defunct organisations were also assured that they were part of a 'serious business' with rewards perhaps not in Heaven, but on the Stock Exchange. Organisations with far larger corporate senior managers and advisers to guide them out of doldrums than the paltry little C-in-W lot headed by the GB and RB. FW Woolworth, Burtons, Debenhams, Poundland, Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley ... all assuring their investors and customers they were 'serious businesses' until the Liquidators and Administrators moved in. No laughing matter Jacko.
Really interesting to hear Dean Manons sermon this morning. A little hypocritical considering my experience of her has been one where she adds plenty of fuel to the drama through her gossiping.
Was the sermon repeat of her Avent Sunday 1 pulpit address chastising those who gossip and trundle on wastefully about past mistakes rather than sharing her assurances (and the Bible's) that glorious days, riches, hugs-all-round await us as soon as the Advent clock ticks over to Christmas morn? Apparently that sermon wasn't met with much enthusiasm either as it was perceived to be an admonishment to any of the choir or congregants who complain and false hope that it'll all be sorted .... eh?
Oh dear. If her sermon was as you report it, that’s a bad move, in my opinion. I have quite a lot of experience of picking up pieces after disasters of one kind or another, and yes, there does come a time when if an organisation is ever to emerge to see another day, the things of the past must be left in the past by those able to do that. But it is way too early to be drawing that kind of line, and doing it effectively always rests on the issues of the past having been effectively and properly dealt with, and time allowed for people to air what they really think and sit with hurt, anger and the other range of emotions. If they are prematurely suppressed, all that will happen is the complaining, backbiting and undermining will go underground, and become all the more destructive for it.
There’s also the theological issue that if this admonition was linked to the season of Advent, it shows a disappointingly superficial theological grasp of the function and nature of the season for someone who taught in theological education. Looking forward with expectation is indeed one thread, but it is firmly anchored in themes of penitence and justice. If the justice element is ignored in favour of the chocolate box image of hopeful expectancy, the result is something of a theological distortion. There is such a huge danger in using the pulpit to address disagreements in any community…
Before commenting further, may I suggest watching the sermon? It's available on the Cathedral's Youtube channel. The Dean's "pertinent" comments come towards the end.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e05130wyno Hurrah indeed! Jam and Jerusalem but no more psychological nut cases. May common bloody sense long rule.
Was told over coffee this morning by a friend, that Joe Cooper's finally been given his marching orders from the Cathedral. Official announcement to be made on Sunday no doubt! Eye in the sky.
If true, then Sunday morning hymns - with or without choir - should be 'Praise My Soul the King of Heaven', followed by 'I Danced in the Morning' (375) and then 'Joy and Triumph Everlasting' (229). Meanwhile, in the choir practice room, they might prefer 'In the Bleak Midwinter'.
Again if true, sure sign that Dean Manon has taken a grip. The DOM and his belligerent choir don't run the cathedral.
And presumably, with this announcement (if accurate), the high-value Canonry property (grace and favour perk provided to the DOM and previously cathedral organist) can be returned to the benefit of the cathedral and its dire needs for revenue-income.
What a disgusting comment from someone who clearly has no grasp on the environment at the cathedral. You don’t understand how much the DoM has contributed to the life of the cathedral.
Well shame on the RB then for wasting this prime property's income potential over the many years since Sion ap Rhys announced it to be unsuitable for cleric residence (along with the Deanery that he then moved into) due to city centre noise nuisance. It hadn't been used as a Residential Canon's place since Rev. Canon David Fisher was gifted a new almost £400,000 house and his Dean, Kathy Jones, was re-housed to another new-purchase costing more than £450,000.
Most in Bangor simply assumed this madness was down to its inept cathedral sub-Dean and out of the hands of the RB. Now you say otherwise. Foundations of the whole pyramid seems totally undermined in commercial acumen if true.
You claim I am 'Disgusting' for having simply reported on earlier local rumour that DOM Joe Cooper has been fired by the Dean and Chapter over series of 'issues'.
Well I hope that you have now had that rumour confirmed by reading the official statement released by the Dean and Chapter today that they have, in fact, deliberated and chosen that inevitable path. He is to depart 'with immediate effect'.
Whereas I am sure all in Old Testament times rejoiced that old Zechariah, father of John the Baptist - who was origin of your pseudonym 'Benedictus' - found his voice and was able to speak again after the visit of the Angel and Baptism of his son, you his name-sake simply keep yours firmly shut for the time being. You and a couple of others (on this site and other social media) are simply making fools of yourselves. But no. Far from having 'no grasp' of cathedral thinking, I am MUCH closer to matters of Bangor cathedral functioning than you might imagine.
Joe's sacking is an insignificant 'blip' in the 1,500 history of the cathedral - nothing more. But like the Dean, I wish him well for his future.
Of course it’s insignificant in the grand scheme of things. We all are. But right now it is very significant to Joe, and others affected. Your comment was unkind.
You claim to be close to the cathedral’s thinking and functioning, so perhaps you can explain so me why the only matters to have been investigated appear to have been the DoM or the choir? If they’re so insignificant, why the focus? I’d be intrigued to see how others would fare, subject to similar levels of scrutiny.
I’m not going to comment on the DoM’s dismissal, but ‘@A fool’s errand’ is right to raise the issue of others who have not been investigated, and whose behaviour may well have been far worse. That they have not been remains an utter disgrace and for as long as that remains the case, my view is the Dean will face too great an uphill struggle if she hopes to achieve any kind of genuine reconciliation or facilitate those dreadful terms ‘moving on’/‘closure’.
I’m now waiting to see if any follow-on action is instigated by anyone who may feel wronged by recent developments. Should such action take a legal turn, there is always the risk of things being disclosed in evidence that others may prefer remain firmly under the genuine Axminster…
You’re twisting my words, and obfuscating your own words. You should keep your own mouth shut. My point was your entirely inappropriate and unfunny suggestion that triumphant hymns should be sang on Sunday is disgusting. The cathedral is free of nothing expect its rich musical heritage. This will be a burden for future generations. I would love to hear you, or anyone in the congregation sing even the simple hymns that you suggested without his leadership.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g4321yk44o If it smells like a cover-up, walks like a cover-up and quacks like a cover-up then it's a cover-up. Bewildered
"Sorry Cherry, but Andy John couldn't make it despite all these cameras being here ... so here I am instead!"
ReplyDeleteStop laughing you two, the Church in Wales is still serious buisness
ReplyDeleteJackson: I feel sure the management and shareholders of other collapsed and now defunct organisations were also assured that they were part of a 'serious business' with rewards perhaps not in Heaven, but on the Stock Exchange. Organisations with far larger corporate senior managers and advisers to guide them out of doldrums than the paltry little C-in-W lot headed by the GB and RB. FW Woolworth, Burtons, Debenhams, Poundland, Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley ... all assuring their investors and customers they were 'serious businesses' until the Liquidators and Administrators moved in. No laughing matter Jacko.
DeleteReally interesting to hear Dean Manons sermon this morning. A little hypocritical considering my experience of her has been one where she adds plenty of fuel to the drama through her gossiping.
ReplyDeleteDisgruntled Exile
Was the sermon repeat of her Avent Sunday 1 pulpit address chastising those who gossip and trundle on wastefully about past mistakes rather than sharing her assurances (and the Bible's) that glorious days, riches, hugs-all-round await us as soon as the Advent clock ticks over to Christmas morn? Apparently that sermon wasn't met with much enthusiasm either as it was perceived to be an admonishment to any of the choir or congregants who complain and false hope that it'll all be sorted .... eh?
DeleteOh dear. If her sermon was as you report it, that’s a bad move, in my opinion. I have quite a lot of experience of picking up pieces after disasters of one kind or another, and yes, there does come a time when if an organisation is ever to emerge to see another day, the things of the past must be left in the past by those able to do that. But it is way too early to be drawing that kind of line, and doing it effectively always rests on the issues of the past having been effectively and properly dealt with, and time allowed for people to air what they really think and sit with hurt, anger and the other range of emotions. If they are prematurely suppressed, all that will happen is the complaining, backbiting and undermining will go underground, and become all the more destructive for it.
DeleteThere’s also the theological issue that if this admonition was linked to the season of Advent, it shows a disappointingly superficial theological grasp of the function and nature of the season for someone who taught in theological education. Looking forward with expectation is indeed one thread, but it is firmly anchored in themes of penitence and justice. If the justice element is ignored in favour of the chocolate box image of hopeful expectancy, the result is something of a theological distortion. There is such a huge danger in using the pulpit to address disagreements in any community…
DeleteBefore commenting further, may I suggest watching the sermon? It's available on the Cathedral's Youtube channel. The Dean's "pertinent" comments come towards the end.
DeleteDarth --Insidious was there to give it all the kiss of death so it's business as usual.
ReplyDeleteThe mere sight of the fool is nauseating.
Bewildered
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7n921wyzvo
ReplyDeleteAt least the Girl Guides have woken up to common sense although it is long overdue.
Hurrah!
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e05130wyno
Enough of the Stonewall trans ordure!
Women's Institute just followed suit. No Trans fingers in their Jam-Making sessions!!!! Not even Cherry Preserve !!!!
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e05130wyno
DeleteHurrah indeed!
Jam and Jerusalem but no more psychological nut cases.
May common bloody sense long rule.
I’m fairly certain that that photograph showed the forthcoming interim Bishop of Bangor. Watch this space.
ReplyDeleteCymro Alltud
@Anonymous... which foreigner and which photograph please...
DeleteWhat larks! Neither of them enjoy the company of another starlet beside them, stealing the limelight.
ReplyDelete#HandbagsAtDawn #BangHer
uwch y llwyfan
Was told over coffee this morning by a friend, that Joe Cooper's finally been given his marching orders from the Cathedral. Official announcement to be made on Sunday no doubt! Eye in the sky.
ReplyDeleteIf true, then Sunday morning hymns - with or without choir - should be 'Praise My Soul the King of Heaven', followed by 'I Danced in the Morning' (375) and then 'Joy and Triumph Everlasting' (229). Meanwhile, in the choir practice room, they might prefer 'In the Bleak Midwinter'.
DeleteAgain if true, sure sign that Dean Manon has taken a grip. The DOM and his belligerent choir don't run the cathedral.
And presumably, with this announcement (if accurate), the high-value Canonry property (grace and favour perk provided to the DOM and previously cathedral organist) can be returned to the benefit of the cathedral and its dire needs for revenue-income.
DeleteAn Observer.
DeleteWhat a disgusting comment from someone who clearly has no grasp on the environment at the cathedral. You don’t understand how much the DoM has contributed to the life of the cathedral.
Benedictus
Statement published today: https://bangor.eglwysyngnghymru.org.uk/newyddion/2025/12/04/datganiad-cadeirlan-bangor/
DeleteEye in the Sky
Now let's see the Choir walk out en masse in support of Joe.
DeleteAll property is owned by the RB parsonage board so will make no difference to the cathedral income.
ReplyDeleteWell shame on the RB then for wasting this prime property's income potential over the many years since Sion ap Rhys announced it to be unsuitable for cleric residence (along with the Deanery that he then moved into) due to city centre noise nuisance. It hadn't been used as a Residential Canon's place since Rev. Canon David Fisher was gifted a new almost £400,000 house and his Dean, Kathy Jones, was re-housed to another new-purchase costing more than £450,000.
DeleteMost in Bangor simply assumed this madness was down to its inept cathedral sub-Dean and out of the hands of the RB. Now you say otherwise. Foundations of the whole pyramid seems totally undermined in commercial acumen if true.
Room for change at all levels eh?
@ Benedictus (somewhere above)
ReplyDeleteYou claim I am 'Disgusting' for having simply reported on earlier local rumour that DOM Joe Cooper has been fired by the Dean and Chapter over series of 'issues'.
Well I hope that you have now had that rumour confirmed by reading the official statement released by the Dean and Chapter today that they have, in fact, deliberated and chosen that inevitable path. He is to depart 'with immediate effect'.
Whereas I am sure all in Old Testament times rejoiced that old Zechariah, father of John the Baptist - who was origin of your pseudonym 'Benedictus' - found his voice and was able to speak again after the visit of the Angel and Baptism of his son, you his name-sake simply keep yours firmly shut for the time being. You and a couple of others (on this site and other social media) are simply making fools of yourselves. But no. Far from having 'no grasp' of cathedral thinking, I am MUCH closer to matters of Bangor cathedral functioning than you might imagine.
Joe's sacking is an insignificant 'blip' in the 1,500 history of the cathedral - nothing more. But like the Dean, I wish him well for his future.
@An Observer
DeleteOf course it’s insignificant in the grand scheme of things. We all are. But right now it is very significant to Joe, and others affected. Your comment was unkind.
You claim to be close to the cathedral’s thinking and functioning, so perhaps you can explain so me why the only matters to have been investigated appear to have been the DoM or the choir? If they’re so insignificant, why the focus? I’d be intrigued to see how others would fare, subject to similar levels of scrutiny.
A fool’s errand
I’m not going to comment on the DoM’s dismissal, but ‘@A fool’s errand’ is right to raise the issue of others who have not been investigated, and whose behaviour may well have been far worse. That they have not been remains an utter disgrace and for as long as that remains the case, my view is the Dean will face too great an uphill struggle if she hopes to achieve any kind of genuine reconciliation or facilitate those dreadful terms ‘moving on’/‘closure’.
DeleteI’m now waiting to see if any follow-on action is instigated by anyone who may feel wronged by recent developments. Should such action take a legal turn, there is always the risk of things being disclosed in evidence that others may prefer remain firmly under the genuine Axminster…
Observer.
DeleteYou’re twisting my words, and obfuscating your own words. You should keep your own mouth shut. My point was your entirely inappropriate and unfunny suggestion that triumphant hymns should be sang on Sunday is disgusting. The cathedral is free of nothing expect its rich musical heritage. This will be a burden for future generations. I would love to hear you, or anyone in the congregation sing even the simple hymns that you suggested without his leadership.
Benedictus (and thanks, I know its etymology).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g4321yk44o
ReplyDeleteIf it smells like a cover-up, walks like a cover-up and quacks like a cover-up then it's a cover-up.
Bewildered