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| Church in Wales bishops Source: Church in Wales |
"Now a bishop must be above reproach, married only once, temperate, sensible, respectable, hospitable, an apt teacher, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and not a lover of money."
On 29th of July the Church in Wales Bangor charade moves to the diocese of Monmouth, the see of the second most senior bishop after the bishop of St Asaph, for the election of the 15th Archbishop of Wales.
Concerns have been expressed over the venue for the election but that the pantomime takes place in Monmouth appears curiously appropriate give the obsession of the bench with sex and same sex marriage and firsts. The bishop of Monmouth is a partnered lesbian who uses the Holy Eucharist to promote her sexual preference under the banner Beware! Our God welcomes all.
All, that is, who share the views of the bench. Believers in biblical orthodoxy are not welcome. There is no longer a pretense of twin integrities. Those promises were broken years ago.
Despite the elaborate electoral college procedure, Buggins' turn usually prevails but given the advancing age of the three most senior bishops who knows.
The choice beyond Buggins' turn is lamentable. It could have been avoided had the bishop of Bangor not delayed his retirement until after the new archbishop is appointed but there is no transparency, only rumour and speculation indicating self interest rather than the interests of the Church.
Given their penchant for 'firsts', the second most senior bishop, the bishop of Monmouth, would as archbishop give the bench two more firsts but a very long way from those of the past when firsts were in Theology,
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For what they're worth, I've posted my comments on the forthcoming election on Thinking Anglicans; this site told me they were too long, so I gave up.
ReplyDeleteSorry to read that John. Another blogging mystery!
ReplyDeletePresumably the comment referred to is the one contained in this link
https://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/election-of-the-archbishop-of-wales/#comment-487951
Diolch yn fawr.
ReplyDeleteI’m probably risking my virtual life by saying this on here, as I realised lesbian clerics are, shall we say, not ‘flavour of the month’ with some contributors. But in my view, the CiW could do an awful lot worse than elect +Monmouth as Archbishop. She may not be the most charismatic of people (and is certainly not what used to be known as a ‘show pony’) but my sources in Monmouth, Manchester and the national Church of England consistently praise her leadership skills and integrity. I also gather that she has a lot of respect from traditionalists in the C of E, and fully supports appropriate provision being made for them. So in comparison with the ineffectual catastrophe that has been the last Archbishop’s attempt at leadership, things would appear to promise to be very different in the hands of +Monmouth.
ReplyDeleteTraditionalists (who used to go by the name Christians, before the modern push to throw the Bible out with the Font Water) would object to any woman being a "Bishop" in the first place, the fact of her being lesbian is almost a minor detail after that great heresy.
DeleteFortunately I have chosen to no longer have any dealings with those who deny the Apostolic teachings so blatantly, I can but pray that some of them will be led back to the right path eventually.
Offa's trench has no respect from here.
DeleteI refuse to accept she's a priestess, much less a Bishopess.
Merely another deviant dressed as a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Bewildered
Traditionalists respecting a female lesbian bishop is an oxymoron.
DeleteYou could post your comments here John, and spread them over several pages if necessary.
ReplyDeleteIt has been done before successfully.
We wouldn't go far wrong with the Bishop of Monmouth. She's sorted out the mess left behind from Richard Pain and healed the rift between those who supported him and those who reported him. Quite something.
ReplyDeleteEpiscopuss
One believes you to be full of crap 💩💩
DeleteWell not really Episkopos, the evidence in Monmouth speaks for itself.
DeleteEpiscopuss
What evidence?
Delete🤣🤣You provide none.
ReplyDeleteThe meeting to elect a new Abp of Wales has been moved from Llandrindod to the very south-east tip of Wales, to the rather splendid St Pierre Manor Hotel, Spa, Golf Course etc, just outside Chepstow, with St Peter’s Church at the hotel entrance in the grounds. Why has it been moved?
Whatever the reason, and perhaps there is a justifiable one, in the eye of the public, especially that of the CinW worshipper, the question is why it’s necessary to use a hotel regarded as possibly the grandest in the County of Monmouthshire? The point here must be that spending, yet again, by the powers-to-be in the CinW, is not kept sufficiently in check. They never learn any lessons. Given the stories swirling around Bangor about utter profligacy - an alleged ordination party held in the Royal Thames Yacht Club in Knightsbridge at a cost of £52000 etc - surely it is not unreasonable for the congregants and contributors to the Church to expect careful stewardship? I’ve dined and stayed at the St Pierre more than once, and I cannot imagine it has changed and is now offering bargain basement prices. So the value for money argument holds no water for me at all.
All that's needed is a decent standard of accommodation, study bedrooms come to mind, so, what would be wrong with, say, St Padarn’s Institute in Llandaff, or St David’s College, Lampeter (which seems to need all the help it can get currently)? If they need to choose a different location from Llandrindod, why not use hotels owned and run by local families and give them support? The St Pierre is a Delta Hotel, a part of the huge multi-national Marriott organisation. It all beggars belief, but they evidently have no regard for the court of public opinion, and even less for the ordinary person in the pew.
The other relevant and intriguing issue is why this election is being held in the very south-east corner of Wales, as far as you can get from some other parts of Wales? Others, far more versed in CinW constitutional matters than am I, have quoted the chapter and verse where it is laid down that the election of the archbishop is to take place in Llandrindod. There may be good reasons to hold it elsewhere, but again, with their usual lack of transparency, openness or basic common decency to the membership of the CinW, there was no explanation of the change of venue in the announcement that appeared on the website on Tuesday. So much for transparency.
More follows ...
ReplyDelete...continued from my previous post
Finally, on the matter of money, I know from the three parishes with which I am connected/where I worship (all in the South Wales Valleys, and not flush with cash) that it is very frustrating, galling even, to be expected to raise well over £150,000 this year for their Parish Share whilst the CinW centrally seems to have no money worries.
Please let me turn briefly now to the matter in hand next week, the election of the Archbishop of Wales, the fifteenth to occupy the post. Whatever the rights and wrongs, the constitution lays down that only the diocesan bishops can be candidates and that cannot be changed at present; others will no doubt be passing comments on the pool available and the talents thereof. All I would say is that, with the resignation, sorry I mean retirement of course(!!) of Andrew John, there are only five possible candidates. Of those, surely to heavens, anyone linked in any way with the Bangor debacle or with close links to Andrew John, cannot be seriously considered until and unless that whole matter has been transparently, fully and independently investigated, full findings published and recommendations made and accepted. This calls for total accountability and honesty from those involved.
Mary Stallard was Archdeacon of Bangor from 2018 and then Assistant Bishop of Bangor, albeit briefly; she was, in effect, Andrew John’s right-hand woman. Sadly, the affable, kindly and very pastoral Dorrien Davies, whom I have known since his time at St Michael’s College in the 1980s when he helped me in my role as Welsh tutor there, publicly endorsed and supported Andrew John during this crisis, and, I understand, was very strong in his backing for him during the relevant ‘crisis’ meetings recently. I feel that neither of these have clear water between themselves and both the goings-on at Bangor and Andrew John’s weak and ineffective leadership there. So, for me, there are but three potential candidates. I pass no comment on any of those.
We need to be able to look forward to a Church in Wales that makes the headlines for the good reasons, rather than the truly appalling stories, rumours, lack of transparency and, dare I say, attempted cover up, of the past few months. There are so many really splendid priests and laypeople working so hard in their communities right across Wales, flying the flag of the Gospel. They, and we, deserve so much better from the leadership. Let us hope that the work of rebuilding trust transparently and openly with us all is seen as a foremost priority. Whoever is elected as Primate next week will have a very hard job convincing me and, I venture to say, many others of this fundamental change.
Well said John.
ReplyDeleteWhy wouldn't the Malsters pub in Llandaff suffice?
Presumably not expensive enough?
You’ve had your win, John, Archbishop Andy has now laid down his crozier, removed his mitre, and taken off his episcopal ring, and all in full view of the Church and the wider world. His resignation was not just a stepping aside; it was an act of public shaming. For many, yourself included, who voiced strong and accusatory views on this blog, this was the outcome you wanted. I hope you’re satisfied. And yet, I can’t help but notice the apparent silence on this blog since this has happened. It’s been striking. The kind of silence that often descends on a community after a scapegoat has been ‘othered’, violated and cast out. There may be a sense of relief, even peace, for a time. But it is illusory, and not grounded in reconciliation, but in removal. In this case, the removal of Andy.
ReplyDeleteOf course, this kind of peace never lasts. And it is certainly not the peace that Christ gives: the peace rooted in grace and the hard work of listening and understanding. When a community turns against one of its own and convinces itself that unity can only be achieved by pushing someone out, the result may look like harmony, but it is such a false harmony, built on violence, scapegoating and blame. The deeper wounds remain unhealed. The pain is simply displaced and buried for a time, until it inevitably resurfaces and is directed at the next victim. Who will that be, I wonder, and what, oh, what have we done?
Kapparis
Andy Crap was NEVER one of our community and wasn't wanted but imposed by the usual suspects who think they know best, and don't.
DeleteAny silence on the blog I interpret to be a massive sigh of relief that the cretin has gone, and good riddance too.
Bewildered
I wholeheartedly agree with John's comments in his final paragraph above. I have been utterly dismayed at the behaviour of many of our senior clerics, not just in Bangor, but elsewhere and not just recently. The commitment from those struggling to build their local churches is betrayed in the face of bullying and misogynistic deans, bishops who are content to stay in their offices and not be seen far from home whilst openly disregarding that they must be above reproach in all things as pasters of our God. Anyone out there wishing to be an Archbishop, or Bishop as a result of these recent shenanigans should perhaps read and inwardly digest the writings of St Jude in his 'Letter of St Jude' (it's only 25 verses) before agreeing to promoting themselves and their whims upon the already damaged Church they are supposed to champion. Sadly, I expect to be dismayed again. But, I pray not!
ReplyDelete