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| The Archbishop of Wales (right) and gay pride supporters, the sub-dean of Bangor and former Mayor. Source: Twitter |
A problem has occured with Blogger comments. Four comments recived today for publication have not appeared. I have not found a solution. Others have had a similar problem.
If this publication workers commentators may have more success here. Fingers crossed!
If no more comments appear readers will at least be aware of the problem.
Postscripts
25 June 2025 Representative Body Statement on Bangor Cathedral:
"The Representative Body of the Church in Wales met today to consider matters relating to Bangor Cathedral. After extensive and detailed discussions, the meeting has been adjourned, and a statement will be issued in due course."
27 June 2025
This report from Martin Shipton of Nation Cymru includes details of a letter written to the Church in Wales’ Bench of Bishops by an angered worshipper of more than 40 years. Well worth a read. AB
"Statement from the Archbishop of Wales, the Most Revd. Andrew John
Dear Friends,
I am writing to you to announce my immediate retirement today as Archbishop of Wales. I also intend to retire as Bishop of Bangor on August 31st.
It has been an enormous joy to serve in the Church in Wales for over 35 years. I cannot thank you enough for the privilege of working at your side for the sake of our Saviour Jesus Christ.
I would very much like to thank the clergy and congregations of this wonderful diocese before I retire and I will be in touch again about the way in which this might happen.
Thank you, and Christ give you joy and peace in believing.
+Andy"
1 July 2025
Have you been hacked by His --Darkness?
ReplyDeleteSuccess, Thank you LG.The bench will be disappointed.
ReplyDeleteWho would have imagined that Ancient Britain would have drawn the attention of Cyber-hackers of Iran, China, Russia, North Korea etc to 'thwack' this blogsite. Such action is certainly outside the abilities of the loonies in the IT or PR department of the RB.
ReplyDeleteWell done AB for 'restoring normal service' as the old BBC would have said.
Now, where were we .... ?
Still no sign of the missing comments on the previous thread.
ReplyDeleteI think they must be regarded as lost Matthew. They were from Jo Cooper, Kernow, 'Job for the boys' and yourself. All were received after 1400 Hrs yesterday, 9th June.
DeleteThese commentators may wish to resubmit here using this post as an extension to the previous entry.
They are visible on previous post. It says ‘Load more’ on the bottom of post and they’re included? Fred
DeleteSo simple. I don’t recall seeing the option yesterday but problem solved. Thank you Fred.
DeleteI seem to recall this occurring only once previously many years ago and it caused consternation and confusion then too.
DeleteIt's to do with the maximum number of comments being reached that can be displayed on a "page" at one time.
I think the previous occasion might have occurred over one of the many Llandaff scandals, maybe "Morgan's Organ", the Cathedral choir redundancies, the Songs of Praise fiasco, Janet Henderson's sudden disappearance or the two Davids reporting the Dean & Chapter to the Charity Commissioners.
AB will know in any case.
Correct Simple Simon. I recalled a similar problem when I used the same solution. I cannot recall the post.
DeleteThis may be it. 'The journey's end but for whom?' attracted 258 comments,
Deletehttps://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-journeys-end-but-for-whom.html
That's the one AB.
DeleteAlmost exactly a decade ago and just look who was the star of the show then too by reading the first few comments.
None other than the chocolate teapot himself, alias Andy Pandy, Andy Cr*p, Randy Pandy.
Over the last decade he's learned precisely zilch.
It does appear the former sub-dean is wearing his cappello with the cord 'tuft' on the wrong side.
ReplyDeleteVestments Manager
Cardinal cosplay
DeleteWalter Mitty
Exactly. The sad truth behind all of this is (likely) a cosplay that has morphed into reality - with near cataclysmic results.
DeleteVestments Manager.
I was talking to someone earlier today, who told me, without me asking, that Sion Rhys Evans has been dismissed from his post at Westminster College. How true that is I do not know. My confidante has links with the United Reform Church.
ReplyDeleteThe Loose Canon
It's true.
DeleteSir Omicron Pi.
SRE's latest peregrinations have been fairly.wodely reported but it appears that his probationary period at Westminster College was unsuccessful, according to this article by Martin Shipton: https://nation.cymru/news/priests-call-for-probe-into-running-of-archbishop-of-wales-home-diocese/
ReplyDeleteI have posted my comment below elsewhere, but thought it might be of interest here as I also tried to post my letter in full on this blog, but was told it was too long!
ReplyDeleteAfter considering what I felt was a rather empty reply last week from the Bishop of St Asaph and discussing it with others, and with the increasing feeling of a number of people that the great difficulties in which the CinW now finds itself need to be expeditiously and openly progressed, I again wrote to him yesterday. I have tried to copy my letter as a comment on here, but it seems it’s too long! If anyone wants to read my letter in full and has suggestions how to post it here, I’d be very grateful.
Very briefly, my letter expressed disappointment at the course of action proposed by the CinW bishops and went on to set out my sole motivation for calling for Andrew John to resign as archbishop – basically my great concern at the huge reputational damage now being suffered by the Church, along with some other significant issues. I added that the CinW should not be expected to take any more damaging revelations and concluded by calling on the bishops to act urgently, decisively and openly in the face of the most grievous crisis the CinW has had to face in its century-long existence.
I hope it is something of a contribution to the debate and could help in a very small way to bring this tragic episode to a resolution for the good of the CinW, its ministry and mission, and for the very many devoted clergy and lay volunteers who undertake such amazing work right across Wales, despite the flawed leadership.
I can confirm that I have received an acknowledgement of my email dated 11 June 2025 from the Bishop of St Asaph's office. I believe he is away for the second half of this week in any event, so I would not expect anything more at this stage.
DeleteI believe I omitted to include my name on my previous update on my email to the Bishop of St Asaph. I'm better using a proper fountain pen than these new fangled IT things.
DeleteJohn, may I commend you for your bravery and persistence. One method previously employed in the 'Llandaff crisis' days was to submit separate numbered pages, eg, 1 of 6, 2 of 6, etc. Best of luck.
ReplyDeleteInteresting developments at Bangor. The Cathedral’s Director of Music, Joe Cooper, has now publicly questioned the two reports published following the safeguarding inquiries. In a post on his Facebook account he says, ‘We worked so hard to create something joyful and respectable. Now to see our reputation in tatters due to poor management is heartbreaking.’
ReplyDeleteThis follows the letter published in the CT calling for a wider inquiry. It seems the two named priests have given Cooper the courage to go public himself. Will others follow or will they allow their own reputations to be tarnished as collateral damage to the falling out between Archbishop and Sub Dean?
Again, AB, I failed to sign my comment before publishing. Sorry. It is Resistance.
ReplyDeleteAB I made a comment to Joe Cooper which was published then taken down. Why was that. My apologies if I violated some rule?
ReplyDeleteNolongeranglican
It was probably thought too personal.
DeleteAh fair enough. I will refrain from that in future.
DeleteNolongeranglican
Announced to congregants of St Deiniol's cathedral (Sunday) was that after lengthy advertising (presumably in the Lunatic's Gazette) there has been some response to vacant position of new Dean. They must either be tight-rope-walkers or those suffering Freudian 'Thanatos' Syndrome. One wonders how many might actually be ordained and hetrosexual. Exciting times eh!!! ?
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is that whatever assurances are given to the naive victim who is offered the job, the day after they land in the deanery, things will change. Their hands will be tied, their authority
ReplyDeleteundermined and the timebomb ticking to their resignation will have begun. It will be a lost cause until John resigns.
Whamab
Surely the sensible thing to do here would be to pause the appointment, and try to find a suitable, solid, respected interim dean (if one can be found, maybe by asking someone to come out of retirement) to steady the ship and gain some stability and trust, especially among the congregants? This was suggested in the splendid Church Times letter from John Prysor Jones and Gordon McPhate. Going ahead like this seems too much like a hurried, knee-jerk, even rash, reaction and most, if not all, potentiallly good candidates would not touch the job with a bargepole. Another vitally important point is that the appointment is, ultimately, in the gift of the Bishop of Bangor, and the current holder of that post has shown himself to be completely incompetent in doing this.
ReplyDeleteAgain, an interim Dean who is respected with the requisite experience and record of delivery would be too much of a threat to John's ego. People of necessary calibre know its a poison chalice from the start.
ReplyDeleteIf John wanted to give David Morris preferment, why on earth didn't he offer him the post instead of making him a Bishop? This is why you don't appoint a curate-in-training as sub Dean. Really, the man is clueless when it comes to leadership.
Whamab
To be fair Whamab, Sion ap Rhys was still effectively 'in post' as sub Dean when David Thomas was elevated to Assistant Bishop and some might argue that this too was another illustration of ++John's cowardism to confront issues: appointing David to oust ap-Rhys. In fact, I suspect that many within Bangor would have favoured David's appointment as Dean; if only to steady the boat for a couple of years and then, while still young, pursue his 'vocation' to purple with added credit to his name. But as with others, he'd first have to show clean hands in matter of ap-Rhys money and perks 'preferment'.
ReplyDeleteDavid Morris, surely?
DeleteSD
Morris the family surname. David Thomas his Baptised/Christian names. Just like most references to the plonker were Sion ap-Rhys with Evans being his family name. Happy with that SD?
DeleteI wouldn’t have thought many set out with the explicit ambition of becoming a Bishop—or do they? Traditionally, roles such as Dean or Archdeacon would provide valuable preparation for such an important position. Rising through the ranks so swiftly, especially at a young age and with relatively limited experience, is certainly uncommon and unwise. But perhaps it’s a sign of the times—many younger clergy seem eager to ascend quickly, sometimes chasing titles and preferment almost as soon as they’re ordained. It feels like a symptom of the age.
DeleteRetired Rector
Prime example of chasing titles and preferment is the inflated ego of St Giles newest poster boy
Delete…the Rector of St Giles will need to take great care his star is not suddenly plucked from the sky as fallout from any part he may have played in the Bangor fiasco, or indeed should he fall foul of the issues alleged among the St Asaph senior staff. He may well find chasing preferment, as the former Sub-Dean and others have found before him, leads to nowhere except being chewed up and spat out….or as some might put it…’mange tout’!!
Delete….or even….’mange tout forges the path to mange Tout’
DeleteAd Clerum
DeleteMange tout, in prayerful context presumably meaning 'Peas Be With You' often pronounced 'Peace be with you ... ' etc.
You are so transparent Ad Clerum, David Morris lets you use the cathedral to process the army around Bangor and suddenly you are all over him.
ReplyDeleteAmazing what can be forgiven when you get what you want eh?
Totally happy - thank you! SD
ReplyDeleteI read somewhere that Evans resigned as Diocesan Secretary in February 2024. Has a successor been appointed? Over 15 months later there is no name on the diocesan website.
ReplyDeleteCymro Alltud
Has SRE still got PTO?
ReplyDeleteAskingforafriend
He doesn’t (at last check) in either Ely or London at present (where both bishops and dioceses are aware). Strange he didn’t ask for one. Others across the Severn are watching.
DeleteVestments Manager.
Why would PTO be an issue? I thought that SRE had left his orders and is no longer a priest. Sad about that tbh as he’s gifted in so many ways, even if delusional in others. On balance, I thought his strengths outweighed his weaknesses and that he’s certainly redeemable.
DeleteOptimist
Who is SRE? Im getting very confused with the names now.
DeleteGoner
@Optimist
DeleteSurely, you jest?
Sion ap Rhys-Evans is demonstrably a complete cretin.
@Optimist you know the man, I dont. However, whatever talent the man had, his (alleged) behaviour is so serious, it should mean he cannot serve at incumbent level. His weaknesses were always going to lead to a disaster. If only John had respected Evans'q provincial panel who could not recommend him for training. Instead John ordained him and made him sub Dean, I mean what could go wrong?
DeleteWhamab
As he did with his first wife. And that went well. Where is she now ???
DeleteSir Omicron Pi.
From what Ive been told of the electoral college at Andy Pandy's appointment , he was very much an afterthought. Sue working really hard to make sure Meurig didn't get it, some Irish guy being asked and then turned it down. It was very much last minute Andys name was thrown in and here we are. Perhaps it should never have been in the first place? Very much like SREs appointment.
ReplyDeleteI think all those who had any involvement or complicit knowledge of these events need to be suspended pending investigation. I know that will mean Andy, Morris, Tout, and vast majority of the chapter. But they are having ample opportunity to cover up what might have been criminal actions.
I seriously think the truth behind the archdeacon of merrionydd disappearance is linked with this, they were all in the same gang.
Exbangorworshipper
Should have been Jeffrey John of course. Much might have been avoided had he become bishop.
DeleteRetired Rector
Jeffrey John would have been another disaster, a different kind of disaster granted, but the last thing that Llandaff needed.
DeleteCaiaphas was also a disaster as she demonstrated par excellence.
Well ye'all of little faith; it seems that we're reached crunch stage. But first to Exbangor worshipper and his feeling that Ven Andrew Jones demise as archdeacon was linked to the Bangor fiasco. No it wasn't. What befell him was, apparently, of his own silly doing except of course that Andrew John should never have appointed him knowing his unfortunate public toilet background.
ReplyDeleteBut to the news. There's to be an 'extraordinary' or emergency meeting of the RB in Cardiff on Tuesday. Only item on the agenda is the 'Bangor Problem' and of course, the Media - not cathedral - being blamed for it!!!! Proposal will be for a further 're-visitation' inquiry into WTF has gone on but not who to blame.
There is only one exception to the exclusion of the Bench of Bishops' involvement in discussion and that, of course, will be the lunatic central to the whole fiasco, Andy John who alone retains a seat on the RB. Understanding is however that the six bishops are divided with the power base being Andy cronies; those who attended his 60th birthday bash in Bangor earlier this year for instance ... much like Rhys Evans's Ritz-celeb in London.
Should decision be taken on a re-examination of evidence and complaints in Bangor and the wider Province under ++leadership then pound-to-a-dollar it will be led by some unheard of theologian, washed-out academic or like Medwyn Hughes, chair of an irrelevant brace of Welsh quango organisations with no bearing whatsoever on the core-participation of congregants.
More curiously, the C-in-W hasn't found it necessary to inform its congregant base that there is to be an extraordinary RB session in Cardiff next Tuesday. Another rather arrogant effort to try and brush things under the carpet so as to advertise later 'We had a meeting and decided to do nothing. Take it or leave it'. That's what committees and panels do. They meet to decide that nothing can be decided on!!! The RB and GB are the masters at this (Then, as the recent e.mail to all RB members suggests, submit your hotel and travel expenses to us for repayment. We've got loads of dosh.). Yeah, this RB meeting is apparently so important delegates need to appear in person not join on Team/Skype/Zoom or whatever.
But at least it's nice to know that the RB will enjoy a lovely day in Cardiff and perhaps even a charabanc trip for ice-cream and kiss-me-quick hats in Barry Island thrown in to nullify them and a silly-grins group photo with Andrew-Pratt before they all return to their parishes saying 'Job Well Done'! There's nothing more to see here Guv.'
They need to get one the current Deans to do is a favour and move over to Bangor. Nigel at St. Asaph is a wonderful preacher and Welsh speaker - might he be persuaded to step in and sort out the mess? He has experience in management and is not in the least bit self-promotional.
ReplyDeleteRetired Rector
@Retired Rector I hear he was instrumental in promoting Capon to be appointed Archdeacon of Montgomery. Hardly inspires confidence does it?
DeleteWhamab
@Retired Rector There is no incentive at all for current Deans to move over, if there were a new Bishop one of them might be tempted but not with the current episcopal oversight. There are some very fine Welsh speaking priests of good reputation and with a record of delivery in parish life. They are ready for promotion and could sort Bangor out as long as John keeps his nose out and just turns up when he needs to. The question is why aren't one of these emerging to become the Dean? Is Bangor so broken no-one wants it?
DeleteWhamab
Disagree. Love that Capon was eventually able to lift two fingers to Juno. Don’t think I’m alone in believing that she did us no favours. Again, Jeffrey John should have got her job !!!!
DeleteRetired Rector
No confidence inspired here.
DeleteLots of elderly subversive Llandaff widows were very happy to stick two fingers up at Gerwhine as he headed East to Thaxted.
DeleteDidn't cut the mustard there earlier, did he.
@Retired Rector I think some of Capon's problems actually predated Juno, so to blame her for his woes is somewhat of a convenience. Jobs for the boys: as it is in Bangor so it is in Llanelwy. Juno was catastrophe for Llandaff, I give you that.
DeleteWhamab
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGreat fuss has been made about Bangor Cathedral's good work going noticed. What good work?! For a while now that cathedral has been nothing more than a pantomime putting on a good performance. Thats not a cathedral! People with no faith being paid to perform to enhance the worship. Spending hundreds of thousands on furniture, dressing up, and performing show tunes, yet claiming their work is good because of two tins of baked beans in the food bank basket. Has there ever been a closer alignment to the trumpeting pharasees and the widows mite?! The church is not a social group that happens to open with a prayer. It's has been serving itself and its own interests for too long. When will the CinW realise God is not blessing this type of church!!
ReplyDeleteNo God required when they've got £3billion god's stashed.
DeleteBewildered
So sorry AB that previous post was ment to be signed off:
ReplyDeleteHOPELESS WANDERER
I have just read the Archbishop’s personal statement about this mess. It is far more than I thought he would do, and give him due credit for publishing it. However, in situations as serious as this one in public life, someone who holds the top job and truly recognises and accepts their culpability and failings would usually demonstrate it by resigning, realising their continuing presence in that role acts against the organisation in question moving forward. Are you going to demonstrate that you still have some shred of integrity as a priest and as a leader, Archbishop, and do what is so clearly best for the Diocese, Cathedral and indeed the Church in Wales?
ReplyDeleteAgree.
ReplyDeleteFD asks a very pertinent question... one that should also be asked of other dioceses where there are questionable behaviours.
ReplyDeleteTime for more dismay I wonder?
FD is absolutely correct. However sincere the Archbishop's comments may be, the situation is such as to make his position untenable. He must realise that he is the author of his own misfortunes and that the buck stops at his door. For the well-being of the C in W and Bangor in particular, a resignation must come soon.
DeleteNemesis
@Nemesis
Delete'Author of his own misfortunes..?' Now anyone with even a smidgen of understanding in the 'science' of Forensic Linguistic - even without using computer algorithms - will quickly realise that the two statements of the archbishop and Mr. Medwyn Hughes published by the C-in-W are by the same person. Words used, sentence construction, sentiments and nuances punctuation, etc. etc. etc. are so much like fingerprints that Forensic Linguistics is even permitted in criminal court trials. So which one wrote the sickly guff ... perhaps neither; perhaps the C-in-W PR department again.
I'm hearing from a NW Wales contact that there may be something on Newyddion S4C at 7.30pm tonight. I know no more than that and had no involvement. There's a simple one line statement on the CinW website, but it does promise a fuller statement. Not much I know, but more than the total secrecy of the past few months, I suppose.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/share/v/19HAdcBGnv/?mibextid=wwXIfr
ReplyDeleteCan’t open a door let along govern a province in the Anglican communion
Knockatthedoor
Clearly emotions are running high. Many people feel let down. But there’s value in recognising that issuing a public statement at all—especially one acknowledging mistakes—is no small thing. It’s rare, and it takes humility.
ReplyDeleteResignation may feel like the only path to some, but others might argue that taking responsibility can also mean staying in place to help repair what’s broken. That’s not an easy route either.
It’s clear the Church has work to do—in this diocese and others but it’s better done with open dialogue, prayer, and persistence, rather than scorched earth. The alternative is a vacuum where disillusionment grows and nothing heals
Thanks Peacemaker - I for one agree with you. An apology and true remorse accompanied with ownership and action to address the issues and shortfall would seem sensible to me rather than resignation. I have more respect for someone apologising and sticking around to sort out the issues.
DeleteAncient Briton, kindly note.
DeleteWe have another imposter among us, the comment above was not from me.
The original Simple Simon.
There’s a working principle in the judicial world that when it comes to conduct issues: failings grounded in competence are potentially remediable, but failings grounded in deep seated attitudes and/or behaviours are far more difficult, if not impossible, to remediate. In my view, the Archbishop’s failings are primarily the latter. It’s for this reason I fall on the side of resignation.
DeleteI've read both statements in full. If this were just Bangor then maybe John could survive. However, he was already tainted by the Monmouth scandal as was Gregory Cameron being the last surviving members of the then bench. John has basically admitted 'gross inefficiency' an offence answerable to the Tribunal according to the Constitution. If this sort of leniency was afforded parish priests, then all least there would be consistency.
ReplyDeleteHowever, this facility only seems available to the episcopate in Wales, not to the rank and file. I suspect John has been forced into this mea culpa by the grandees of the RB because anyone truly reflecting on the shortcomings he has admitted in writing could not stay on in good conscience.
How can the Chair of the RB oversee the Cathedral's Oversight Board in lieu of the diocesan bishop? If he can't do that with any confidence, then his moral authority to lead the Diocese and his cathedral church is non-existent. Going forward the bench needs reforming and the Archbishop needs an oversight group to hold him/her accountable.
Finally, I still find it extraordinary that Evans has not been brought before the tribunal, assuming he'd co-operate.
Whamab
What would the Archbishop’s resignation actually achieve for the Church? It won’t undo past failings, nor will it guarantee better practice in future. On the contrary, his departure risks further destabilising leadership at a time when steady, accountable reform is urgently needed.
ReplyDeleteThe "leadership" 🤣 of the chocolate teapot has been a significant part of the problem.
DeleteLet him reflect in his own time after he's resigned or been dismissed for failing to do so.
Bewildered
Steady, accountable reform is certainly needed but this cannot occur if the archbishop remains in place. He is central to what has occurred in Bangor and cannot credibly be part of any enquiry into matters in which he himself is so closely involved. Far from destabilising leadership, his departure would enable a more transparent process and create more confidence in the outcome of any future investigation.
ReplyDeleteNemesis
@Cut to the Chase I did write a response to you last night but deleted it as I wanted to sleep on it. I don't want to be judgmental or unloving, I really don't. However, @Nemesis has summed up my feelings exactly - any risks with John's departure are clearly outweighed by the benefits that new leadership would bring.
ReplyDelete+Tyddewi is the junior on the bench, but I think he is best placed to succeed to the Archiepiscopate, he is a very safe pair of hands and pastorally astute. A new Bishop of Bangor would have to be elected first I believe.
Whamab
Am I right in thinking that St David's was the original primatial see?
DeleteBe careful what you wish for Whamab.
DeleteVestment Manager.
St. David's was never the Primatial See. However, The Ancient Archiepiscopal see of Lichfield was said to include the four Welsh Sees.
DeleteSir Omicron Pi.
WWJD? I can't help but feel deep compassion for +Andy. He (mis)placed his trust in someone who has sadly brought about such harm and heartache. The aftermath has been devastating, and it’s clear he carries the weight of that. He’s shown remorse, and he’s taken steps to gather a team to help bring healing and care to those who’ve been hurt. I don’t stand with those calling for his resignation. Yes, accountability is important and necessary. But not at the cost of tearing someone down with ridicule or shame. Let’s hold space for truth, responsibility, and also grace.
ReplyDeleteWWJD
My support for his resignation is nothing to do with "tearing someone down with ridicule and shame." Far from it. if I may say with respect, this comment seems to have more to do with emotion rather than reason. I share your desire for truth and responsibility but remain firmly of the view aims cannot be achieved without a truly independent investigation. Perhaps the archbishop did misplace his trust in the former sub-dean but I believe I'm right in saying that he made the appointment against the better judgement of the original selection panel. His own judgement and actions are therefore open to serious questioning as is his competence to continue in his present position.
DeleteNemesis
Nemesis
And if you all get your pound of flesh, will you be satisfied then? Or cry out it's still not enough.
DeleteThis comment is not worthy of a response.
DeleteNemesis
@WWJD
DeleteIs that you Andy?
🤡
Bewildered
No it's not Andy. He's not the first Bishop to go against the recommendation of a selection panel. He won't be the last.
DeleteWWJD
He's gathered a great team to help healing? Well he appointed the gin soaked gym cruising David Morris to a not needed position of Assistant Bishop, who is now also acting dean. How long before this appointment blows up in his face?
DeleteSir Omicron Pi
Do I sense a touch of jealousy there Sir Omicron Pi
DeleteTo which Simple Simon should one reply?
DeleteSir Omicron Pi.
WWJD? I can't help but feel deep compassion for Andy. He placed his trust in someone who sadly brought about such harm and heartache. The aftermath has been devastating, and it’s clear he carries the weight of that. He’s shown remorse, and he’s taken steps to gather a team to help bring healing and care to those who’ve been hurt.
ReplyDeleteI don’t stand with those calling for his resignation. Yes, accountability is important and necessary. But not at the cost of tearing someone down with ridicule or shame. Let’s hold space for truth, responsibility, and also grace.
WWJD
See today’s Private Eye, page 22: ‘Have We Got Pews For You’. An informed piece on Bangor Cathedral’s ‘troubles’. Evans is named, but not His Grace.
ReplyDeleteCymro Alltud
what does the piece in the Eye say?
DeleteTo quote the introduction: ‘High days and holidays for Welsh Anglicans as tales emerge of extravagant spending on designer pews, foreign jollies and, er, a culture of boozing’. The rest of the article enlarges on these points at Bangor Cathedral.
DeleteCymro Alltud
The article finishes with a reference to Evans being both sub-dean and diocesan secretary - possible conflict of interest. After being on gardening leave for much of 2024 he became bursar of Westminster College, Cambridge, but he no longer in that post.
DeleteCymro Alltud
Must buy my copy tomorrow.
DeleteFar more reliable than the 💩💩💩💩 published by the RB.
The imposter again, the comment above was not from me.
DeleteThe original Simple Simon.
Why is it some people are too lazy/thick/lack the imagination to come up with an original idea of their own rather than engage in plagiarism?
Simple Simon the original and best.
I am simple simon.
ReplyDeleteWill the real slim Simon, please stand up!
ReplyDeleteThis is getting silly. Presumably AB has email addresses for the various Simons and pseudo Simons and can weed out the imposters?
DeleteNot so Matthew. Blogger comments are received on a 'noreply-comment' basis.
DeleteHowever, I would ask commentators to show the courtesy to others that they expect to receive for themselves as, presumably, fellow Christians.
This isn't the first time this has happened, it's unnecessary, confusing and downright rude.
DeleteI quite agree.
DeleteBewildered
The courtesy extended here to others is certainly in the main not what I would consider Christian.
Delete☝️Not from me once again.
DeleteUnTruthy is back it seems AB.
If I wanted your opinion I'd have let you know what it is first.
🤡 🤡 to the left and 🃏🃏 to the right with the Cult in Wales amidst them all.
An impressive comment on the whole sorry situation by a Bangor Cathedral worshipper just added to Nation Cymru.
ReplyDeletehttps://nation.cymru/news/church-in-wales-charities-probed-by-charity-commission/
DeleteTed
Wow what an excoriating letter by Rowena Lewis published on Nation Cymru. I encourage commentators to read it. This scandal just gets worse and worse. The reputational damage John has caused is cataclysmic.
DeleteWhile the shoots of renewal are being reported nationally with encouraging Easter attendances, the Church in Wales happily implodes and no doubt puts off enquirers in attending. How does the church demonstrate to its members and the world, it is a competent, safe and holds it beliefs with authenticity? Certainly not by pretending to take a phone call, pathetic.
Whamab
The roots of all the problems certainly extend back to the Arch cretin and Satan's imp 👿 Barry Morgan of Llys Ego.
DeleteIn all this nonsense, we forget that our curates, vicars, rectors, rural deans etc. across the Diocese of Bangor are supposed to be 'Shepherds' - not SHEEP. Where are they? They know and so often share the views and despair of their parish congregants but none - other than those who have simply vacated their 'livings' to other Diocese mainly in England - have the decency, courage or strength to collectively shout out. What cowards they are; hiding behind the voice of their congregants to do the dirty. All probably ready to kow-pow to their Great Leader at the next Diocesan Conference in hope that he might even care. Shepherds who Andrew John treats as brainless mutton.
ReplyDeleteThey're all cowed and craven.
DeleteTo whom do you think they owe their patronage?
🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
You are delusional.
ReplyDeleteHow much power do you think the ordinary clergy have? The power lies with The RB and The Bench of Bishops.
It is they who are cowards
Not delusional at all Celt. The whole fiasco has been exposed by and fought by the pew-sitters with the sheepish parish clergy of the diocese muttering their weak support but without adding voice. How much 'power' do the 'ordinary' clergy have you ask. A helluva lot if collectively they added their voice to the Lay petitions and even more if when the Andrew John calls a diocesan meeting, they each write back saying: 'No thank you - not while you are our Bishop'. Stick by my guns: The bravest and best of our Bangor diocese clergy over years while kilted MacJohn has been here have quit. We are left with cowards who while agreeing he should be toppled are too piss-poor to say so.
DeleteOh dear. Any clergy in mind?
ReplyDeleteSo there we are. He's gone. Have we got news for you indeed .... !!
ReplyDeleteBuy yourself a copy of Crockfords, stick a pin in any clergy of the diocese of Bangor, and there's your answer. Crockford's however, is out of date, Andrew John now moves to the rear pages of 'retired clergy'. Yahoo..
DeleteThe plank is somewhat straighter now needs a new head to dip it again.
DeleteSpirit level
I’m pleased the writer to Nation Cymru chose to speak out as she did. Her letter was very powerful. I take no pleasure in the Archbishop’s resignation, sorry, retirement - this sorry mess doesn’t lend itself to taking pleasure in anything to do with it, in my view. But I do think it’s the right thing to have happened. Perhaps now the Cathedral and Diocese can begin to look towards a better future - I do hope so, and will be praying for the people and clergy of the Diocese.
DeleteYes Old Bill. Gorn. 'Retirement' is the word; but quit it is. Well done all on the AB site, along with letter writers, Nation Cymru et al ... but as Ceri Llan point out, not the weaklings of the diocese clergy ... for pushing this inevitable ousting on. Thank you AB for giving us the air to breathe.
ReplyDeleteAd Clerum.
According to a statement released earlier on Archbishop John is 'retrining', more like jumping before being kicked out! Grumpy
ReplyDeleteAs I read the Constitution, it is in fact a resignation (whatever they’re choosing to call it). Retirement before the age of 67 is on grounds of incapacity only, but it’s expressly provided that a bishop or archbishop can resign at any time.
DeleteRB
Yes. It is our only method of having our say
ReplyDeleteAll official complaints get swept under the rug.
Please God let The Holy Spirit, discernment, wisdom and love be with us all.
Is this a good time to sort the chaff from the wheat in other dioceses before we are faced with yet more dismay?
ReplyDeleteCan we start a list?
ReplyDeleteHow bizarre CELT. Only three hours ago at 17.31 your were accusing those of us who wanted to shame clergy for their sheepish silence, now you are asking for us to begin a List of those to expose. 'Can we start a list'??? Very odd.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI feel the incompetent Church hierarchy need to be named. Not the ordinary hard working clergy. It's not odd at all.
DeleteGood bloody riddance to the cretin.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteYou got what you wanted. I hope he feels relieved and I wish him wellness and peace. Bless you +Andy.
ReplyDeleteWWJD
Here here - he’s been made a scapegoat.
DeleteThe comment above is NOT from Simple Simon.
DeleteThe real and original SIMPLE SIMON is glad to see the back of the idiot.
He wasn't bright enough to be a scapegoat.
Nor is the comment ref the choir master from Ceri.
DeleteWWJD? Kick over some tables and call out the hypocrisy of those who use the structures of religious authority for their own personal gain maybe?
DeleteFor the record, it's not what I wanted - he should have to stay, face an inquiry and explain what has been going on for the last decade. This is a coward's way out.
Scarlet
Andy John has done the correct thing in resigning. He hasn't retired by any accepted definition of the word - he did not reach 40 years of service nor has he reached 66 years of age. Whatever ever the backroom pressure was I do have to commend him on agreeing to do the right thing. I think there is a massive sigh of relief in the province except from his loyal acolytes.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope and pray the Church in Wales can finally stop these acts of self-harm and choose a pastorally gifted, godly priest to be Bishop of Bangor. For Archbishop, the only credible candidate for me is Bishop Dorrien. Cameron has too much baggage, Stallard is too close to Bangor still to be a fresh start, Vann does not have the charisma to lead the province, Lomas is a good communicator, but he is tunnel visioned and not that gifted pastorally. Morris needs experience as a diocesan away from Bangor.
I was wrong about one thing. Andy John was not the last Archbishop of Wales after all.
Whamab
There's not one of them worthy of the vocation.
DeleteIt's not a bloody job!
@Whamab. People - at least, the ones I speak to - in the Diocese of S&B speak well of their bishop, (as do people in the Diocese of St Davids), and that John Lomas is gifted pastorally. Apparently, he has been a breath of fresh air after the micro-managing Shirley of unhappy memory. The Chrism Mass was so badly attended under Shirls that they could seat the entire congregation in the choir stalls. This year, it was very well attended, which shows that the Diocese has responded well to their bishop.
DeleteThe Man in the Watchtower
From what I've heard of the much-vaunted RB meeting on Tuesday, you'd be very disappointed in your beloved Dorrien, Whamab, as he was chief amongst the voices calling for 'forgiveness and compassion' towards His Dis-Grace!
DeleteThe next double-plus will undoubtedly be Big Greg - it's never not gone by seniority before. Not much of an improvement really, but there we go. Baby steps.
Scsrlet
David Bartlett was the senior bishop when Glyn Simon was elected Archbishop - there is a precedent.
DeleteSir Omicron Pi
I stand corrected. Here's hoping, anyway!
DeleteScarlet
@The man in the watch tower John Lomas is well liked by the majority granted and he took on a diocese in absolute free-fall so he has steadied the ship at least in Swansea. If you look at the north of S&B it is a wasteland like Ynys Mon. Maybe he would do a good job as ++, but from what I hear he can't wait to retire. Another 66 year old as are Cameron and Vann.
DeleteWhamab
Morris now appears to be out of his depth and, for all intents and purposes, without a job, given +Andy's retirement. I hope he can show the humility to acknowledge his involvement in Andy’s misjudgment, and then focus on securing a parish position within the province, where he can engage in the steady, dedicated work of a parish priest. He so clearly lacks the necessary experience to serve as a diocesan bishop, and I would hope that any competent electoral college would recognise this—without even considering the concerns many have around his association with Sion and the trips he accompanied him on to Rome. He may be a pleasant individual, but he is not what Bangor needs at this moment.
ReplyDeleteEpiscapuss
Oh, not sure that David Morris is 'to all intents and purposes without a job ...' as Episcapuss maintains. He's still got title to Bishop of Bardsey with the added bonus that his congregant base of Cormorants, Gulls and pilgrim porpoise are hardly likely to rebel against him.
DeleteAs long as we keep the military parades
DeleteDavid Wilbourne was left unemployed once Barry retired. An assistant bishop to an Archbishop is jobless once the Archbishop retires, unless they take on a Diocese. Wilbourne was fortunate - he had his writing and experience to fall back on, and by all counts, has thrived. A gifted preacher and bishop.
DeleteEpiscapuss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg4nw7xvyvo
ReplyDeleteBest news the Church in Wales has had in years.
Only too delighted to see the back of the gurning gormless fool.
Enormous Greg also needs to retire as he has shown poor leadership and lacks discernment . But please, please don't promote the bullying, self promoting Archdeacon of Wrexham .
ReplyDeleteThe Archdeacon would be unwise to accept preferment, even if it was offered, and she is a long way from being a stupid person, so I would hope she would realise that and play it safe.
DeleteThe thought of E G as Archbishop aided and abetted by the failed Dean fills me with dismay. None of this is right... it should not be happening. Let's get things straight again.
DeleteIt would seem that we ought to be very grateful for Barry Morgan's legacy. Carl Cooper. Joanna Penberthy. Richard Pain. Andrew John. Dean Janet. Dean Gerwyn.
ReplyDeleteSir Omicron Pi.
Caiaphas, typhoid Mary.
DeleteAn ideal opportunity to implement old recommendations and do away with at least two, if not three, Dioceses.
ReplyDeleteWhilst I fully agree with you, Episkopos, that is unlikely to happen. Since the Harries report was published, there has been numerous opportunities to amalgamate dioceses, and we have had June Osborne, Mary Stallard, Cherry Vann, Joanna Penberthy, Dorrien Davies, and John Lomas elected. Andrew John even appointed two assistant bishops. The last time this was raised at the Governing Body, the enquirer was told that the bishops were working on it.
DeleteThe Loose Canon
Just like Starmer is working on stopping the boats and smashing the people smuggling gangs.
DeleteBewildered
@Episkopos I'm told that there has to be a least 4 dioceses to qualify as a Province.
DeleteWhamab
Ten thousand Sunday worshippers across the entire Principality doesn't warrant being a "Province", does it?
Delete@Whamab:
ReplyDeleteWouldn't Bardsey with its own Bishop count to make up the fourth diocese???? On second thoughts, Bardsey Island is about the same size and remote location as St. Helena to where that other somewhat unseemly and unpopular dictator Napoleon Bonepart was expelled. There's no Royal Mail or Post Office there either, so think of the RB savings on not having Andrew John cashing in his early clergy-stipend cheques.
Barry Morgan's toxic ☢️☣️⚠️ legacy revealed at last in all its filth.
ReplyDeleteDrain the swamp.
The toxic Church in North Wales is continuing. More reports of bullying in Wrexham Archdeaconry. Gregory is catatonic and useless
ReplyDeleteYoung clergy desperate. What is going on. What has become of us?
Tell us more… Before Arch Wrex becomes +Bangor.
Delete+Minus
or even Arch Monty goes for +Bangor. Double dismay
DeleteArchdeacon Paul Mackness is your man for Bangor. Cheerful, happy, care-free disposition and sartorially a match for anything Bangor has hitherto seen. Not yet married, still looking?
ReplyDeleteMischievous
Archdeacon Paul Davies now a suffragen in Guildford. Cymro who is Cymraeg speaking
ReplyDeleteA loss to the Church in Wales, and used as part of Andy’s “games” with his so-called friends. Why would he or any other Cymro want to come back to a hierarchy that has defecated on them and that treatthem (and other Cymros who cross the Severn) with contempt?
DeleteVestment Manager.
For Archbishop I would go to Abergwili. For Bangor I would go to Mallow in County Cork.
ReplyDeleteCymro Alltud
The process for electing a new Archbishop is in the Constitution. Within thirty days after a vacancy arises in the archbishopric, the senior Diocesan Bishop (currently the Bishop of St Asaph) shall summon each member of the Archbishop’s Electoral College to a meeting to be held not less than fourteen and not more than thirty days after the date of such summons. So the meeting must be held not later that 26 August.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason for delay is if a see is vacant or becomes vacant within 14 days of the archbishopric becoming vacant. In that case the process does not start until the vacant see has been filled. But Bishop John has delayed his resignation from his see by more than 14 days, so the timetable above must be followed.
This means that the next Archbishop will be elected from the current Bench of Bishops with no opportunity for an external candidate to emerge. It would not be surprising if the other bishops have already decided who will succeed Andrew John and only one will stand. They will then try to convince the Electoral College that this is the best way forward for the Church in Wales.
Unfortunately they are all complicit in recent events and many are tainted directly by what has happened in Bangor - SRE’s conduct was hardly a secret, anymore than Andrew John’s behaviour as Bishop of Bangor was, as detailed in Rowena Lewis’s excellent letter.
But the problem of covering up poor episcopal behaviour is entrenched in this Bench and they have proved they will protect colleagues and circle the wagons on numerous occasions, to the cost of individuals and the wider Church in Wales. The longer serving bishops are all implicated in this up to their armpits.
The only hope is to appoint Bishop John Lomas on a short-term basis, given his age, and provide him with a competent team that will enable him to deliver the fundamental change that is so urgently needed. We pray and we wait.
Northern Faithful
Forlorn hope and complete waste of time NF.
DeleteLet the entire stinking edifice implode and collapse under the weight of its own filth.
No loss to anyone.
There's no Christianity there that I recognise, it has been infected, invaded and overwhelmed by all things queer and politically correct.
There's no pastoral care or concern for the elderly, sick, dying or orthodox faithful unless and until the ghouls want your money.
Bewildered
These last two comments show hope amongst the criticism. Difficult to see how anyone other than +S&B can fill the log term gap that Bewildered identifies so accurately. Keep praying in our ongoing dismay.
DeleteS+B would not be good news for LGBTQIA+ but then that make him a good candidate for many of you here. Obvious choice is +Cherry - she’s sorted out the mess in Monmouth.
DeleteCherryonthecake
🥱🥱🥱
DeleteCherry's girlfriend?
@Cherryonthecake +S&B has remained remarkably neutral on his 'orthodoxy' much to some of our frustration who had hoped he would openly distance himself from revisionists on the bench. Perhaps he knows they would throw him under the bus at the first opportunity if he did. It is an insane world when believing the church's doctrine on sexual ethics might count against you.
DeleteI sincerely doubt he would want the job since, from what I hear, he has expressed informally an intent to retire shortly. Mind you the thought of an even bigger pointy hat might sway him? The only credible candidate for me who is under 65 is +Tyddewi.
With the constitutional timescales for elections there are only possible 5 candidates after all because +Bangor will be filled second after ++Cambrensis.
Whamab
They would be doing everyone a big favour if they ALL packed it in and retired now, en suite.
DeleteWould anyone notice the difference?
Bewildered
@ Whamab and Bewildered
DeleteI doubt if many would notice the difference as you suggest. Indeed, rather than reduce the number of Welsh diocese by two, why not accept that the Disestablishment Act - while a good idea at the time perhaps - didn't pan out and ask England if we can maybe return to the fold; perhaps as an associate member. It seems that post BREXIT that's the mood swing with Europe so why not on more parochial level too. OK, the C-of-E doesn't have a sitting Archbishop either at the moment; but the CofE seems to be ticking over relatively well without one. Knock this provincial nonsense on the head, re-combine with England, pool resources and investments and grow stronger. Or are we Welsh folk so backward thinking that maybe Owain Glyndwr can be seduced to return from his hideout to become next ++Wales?
Hen Will.
I see a solution emerging. Let's cull the CiW whilst there is still some life left in it and return back to the fold in England. Between us we could make something great out of what I believe is being offered from above. With barely an exception, none of the surviving "leaders" of the CiW that I can see have the ability or the guidance to do what is right and put away their false detractions. Dismayed or what?
DeleteSeveral flies in that tub of ointment, not the least of which is that the Church of England has been queered at least as much as the Cult in Wales, if not more.
DeleteThen there's the calibre of the English plankers to consider and the notion of having anything to do with Cottrell, Mulally, Hudson-Wilkins et al with their Living in Lust & Filth drivel is vomit inducing.
The CofE is only a couple of steps behind the CinW and is a far larger swamp.
Has anyone tried having a conversation with Cherry Vann? It's like talking to cardboard cutout!
DeleteSir Omicron Pi.
The failure to deal with gross misconduct isn't limited to the Cult in Wales, the Church of England and plod are every bit as useless.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3velqy9rzo
the Bishop of Bardsey has been removed from the Bangor webpage.
ReplyDeletehopeforthebestplanfor theworse
Is he in Rome?
DeleteNoholesbardsey
Last seen at Kensington Yacht Club.
DeleteHello Sailor
He's still on the website (as is the Bishop): https://bangor.eglwysyngnghymru.org.uk/cyngor-esgob/
DeleteAfter today's damning press release from the RB, not sure how long that will be. Senior leadership in Bangor take a real hammering.
DeleteAsaph
Got a link please?
DeleteBewildered
https://www.churchinwales.org.uk/en/news-and-events/statement-from-the-representative-body-of-the-church-in-wales-on-bangor-cathedral/
DeleteThank you for the link, Anonymous.
DeleteThe question remains, why the hell wasn't all of this ALREADY in place?
It's not as though there haven't been problems elsewhere over the last 20 years, is it?
John Lewis flogging off Llandaff Cathedral endowments to try and cover up the holes in the Organ Appeal accounts, you all know, the accounts that were never kept.
Or Janet Henderson's departure after just ten weeks?
Or the curious case of the disappearing little curate Ceirion Gilbert?
Or bully boy --Bazza publicly stating at a Friend's meeting that the Organ Appeal had cost Llandaff Cathedral £750k?
Or Peggy "the taxman will never know" Pilate making the Assistant Organist and Lay Clerks redundant on the lie that the Cathedral couldn't afford them when it had just banked £300k from the sale of a property to the RB?
Gerwhine and the Aga Saga along with his ex-gratia payments to.r Toad.
As for the Charity Commissioners, don't make me laugh.
If anyone is stupid enough to believe that the RB isn't in on it as usual, then you're all mugs.
I wouldn’t say no to Gregory for a year or two. But who would be his assistant? Perhaps he’d make Nigel his Dean an assistant bishop. That would be a good result for the province.
ReplyDeleteAsaph
Gerwhine?
DeleteFFS don't be absurd.
Absolutely no need of the position of Assistant Bishops in The Province. It's only the self perpetuating Bunch that think that there is. One is mindful it was said, at the time, that The Province could not afford to replace Bishop David Thomas; but we know that was just malign spite .
DeleteSir Omicron Pi
You couldn't afford the fodder.
Delete@Asaph Are you kidding me? St Asaph is on fire and you'd promote Cameron?
ReplyDeleteWhamab
👍 This 🤞
DeleteNo surprises here.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/01/pride-surrey-founder-told-rape-victim-12-keep-secret-crime/
Living in lust and filth.
And again.
Deletehttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/01/priest-ran-abuse-cult-amid-lingerie-wearing-lycra-nuns/
You mean, Menai, that even the heterosexuals are it it now and not just the LGBTQ+. deviants you drew our attention to above? Lycra loving nuns?
DeleteHail Mary
Certainly. It's all due to the permissive bien-pensent liberal(illiberal) elite DEI self-identifying twisted Living in Lust and Filth.
DeleteHow else is it possible for the likes of the Bangor shenanigans to occur in the first place?
Forgot to label last comment as mine, apologies to Ancient Briton.
DeleteNo surprises here either.
DeleteTypical woke DEI Stonewall infected local authority.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/02/christian-artist-reported-to-police-gender-critical-views/
Our entire society doesn't seem to know how to conduct itself appropriately anymore.
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g8zz840ydo
DEI Stonewall infected Armed Forces.
I've just seen photographs from Bangor cathedral, of the ordination on Saturday. It looked a joyful celebration, but, considering the cathedral and it's bishop are the centre of a hugely damaging and on - going situation, the apparent haughtiness of his Lordship, was, truly, beyond belief. As Shirley Davies was preaching, would it not have been more appropriate if he had actually presided over the whole rite and left the two Bangor 'bishops' out of the occasion altogether ???
ReplyDeleteSir Omicron Pi.