Happier times? Bishop Richard Pain with the Archdeacon of Newport and the vicar of Caerleon The Dean of Monmouth is behind them. Source: C in W |
Martin Shipton stirred up a hornets' nest when he published his article in the Western Mail, Unholy row in Diocese of Monmouth. It was short on facts so readers were left in the dark about the cause of the row but that has not prevented people from taking their chosen side.
Good discipline is essential to the effective working of all organisations and the Church in Wales is no exception. Good discipline for clergy involves:
i) setting expected standards of behaviour;
ii) informing clergy of the standards expected and what will happen if those standards are not met;
iii) taking appropriate action if those standards are not met.
Comments appearing on this blog suggest that the lack of information about the row has led to entrenched positions making resolution more difficult.
From the Introduction to the Church in Wales Disciplinary Policy and Procedure of The Clergy:
i) setting expected standards of behaviour;
ii) informing clergy of the standards expected and what will happen if those standards are not met;
iii) taking appropriate action if those standards are not met.
The Disciplinary Procedure applies to all Clerics exercising ministry in the Church in Wales.
Disciplinary proceedings can be instituted where misconduct or poor performance is alleged to have occurred. A single act or omission may be sufficiently serious as to justify instituting the procedure.
The grounds for instituting the procedure are as already set out in Section 9 of Chapter IX of the Constitution as follows:
(a) teaching, preaching, publishing or professing, doctrine or belief incompatible with that of the Church in Wales;
(b) neglect of the duties of office, or persistent carelessness or gross inefficiency in the discharge of such duties;
(c) conduct giving just cause for scandal or offence;
(d) wilful disobedience to or breach of any of the provisions of the Constitution;
(e) wilful disobedience to or breach of any of the rules and regulations of the Diocesan Conference of the diocese in which such member holds office or resides;
(f) disobedience to any judgement sentence or order of the Archbishop, a Diocesan Bishop, the Tribunal, or any Court of the Church in Wales.
All complaints should be forwarded to the Bishop in the first instance. Where the complaint concerns the conduct, behaviour or performance of a Bishop the complaint should be referred to the Archbishop and where the complaint concerns the conduct, behaviour or performance of the Archbishop the complaint should be referred to the next most Senior Bishop.
In this case it appears that the correct procedure was followed. The complaints were not upheld but the complainants refuse to work with the bishop.
Working relationships have broken down. Without the benefit of the facts of the case, parishioners have been left to speculate, championing the bishop or the complainants according to preference.
That may be based on personality, prejudice, having been favoured or disappointed when unpopular decisions have had to be made or conveyed, often by archdeacons.
That the bishop is reported to have been cleared may have come as no surprise to many. The bishops of the Church in Wales stick together under Barry Morgan's blanket of collegiality.
Their stance on same sex marriage, contrary to section (a), above, teaching, preaching, publishing or professing, doctrine or belief incompatible with that of the Church in Wales, does not encourage confidence.
Neither did the appointment of the former bishop of Oxford to validate Morgan's plan to reorganise parishes into ministry areas so how much confidence can there be in the appointment of 'independent investigators' in a cloud of secrecy?
Working relationships have broken down. Without the benefit of the facts of the case, parishioners have been left to speculate, championing the bishop or the complainants according to preference.
That may be based on personality, prejudice, having been favoured or disappointed when unpopular decisions have had to be made or conveyed, often by archdeacons.
That the bishop is reported to have been cleared may have come as no surprise to many. The bishops of the Church in Wales stick together under Barry Morgan's blanket of collegiality.
Their stance on same sex marriage, contrary to section (a), above, teaching, preaching, publishing or professing, doctrine or belief incompatible with that of the Church in Wales, does not encourage confidence.
Neither did the appointment of the former bishop of Oxford to validate Morgan's plan to reorganise parishes into ministry areas so how much confidence can there be in the appointment of 'independent investigators' in a cloud of secrecy?
The Dean of Monmouth was the first to defend himself. Coming from a supporter of such clerics as the progressive professor Dean Martyn Percy who works to the detriment of orthodox Anglicanism as he strives to secularise the Church, readers may draw their own conclusions. Not that the bishop of Monmouth or the rest of the bench have done anything in support of Anglican orthodoxy. In that sense they are all tarred with the same brush
The bishop's style is not to everyone's taste as regular readers of this blog will have observed from previous entries.
Similarly, the dean's expressed progressive views are an affront to traditionalists who were promised appropriate sacramental and pastoral care as faithful Anglicans who could not, in conscience, accept the ordination of women.
That promise evaporated on the retirement of the late Bishop David Thomas.
Petertide Ordinations 2018 Source:@MonmouthDCO |
Similarly, the dean's expressed progressive views are an affront to traditionalists who were promised appropriate sacramental and pastoral care as faithful Anglicans who could not, in conscience, accept the ordination of women.
That promise evaporated on the retirement of the late Bishop David Thomas.
The accused archdeacons have said nothing that I am aware of. Often having to convey unwelcome advice, or doing the bishop's dirty work as some would have it, they find themselves in a difficult position.
Accusations of bullying have been made. That is a serious matter. There is a procedure for dealing with bullying but it is unclear whether the correct procedure has been followed.
Accusations of bullying have been made. That is a serious matter. There is a procedure for dealing with bullying but it is unclear whether the correct procedure has been followed.
Until the facts are known, speculation and damaging accusation are destined to continue.
There have been frequent calls, particularly from the diocese of Llandaff, for Martin Shipton to investigate unease in the Church in Wales but the requests fall on deaf ears. The decline continues.
There have been frequent calls, particularly from the diocese of Llandaff, for Martin Shipton to investigate unease in the Church in Wales but the requests fall on deaf ears. The decline continues.
Update [11/01/2018]
"An end to Bishop of Monmouth’s long absence may be in sight"
Bishop is likely to return to work in February - Church Times
I cannot understand why, if Bishop Richard has been exonerated, is he not back at his desk . If his senior team are refusing to work with him then either disciplinary measures are taken against them or they resign their positions.
ReplyDeleteConcerned member
Constitutionally there is no reason why the Bishop should not be back at his desk. However the Archbishop has asked him to refrain from duties until the mediation process has been completed (if it ever will be).
ReplyDeleteBishop Pain should take the Archbishop to an Employment tribunal for constructive dismissal!
DeletePP. Unfortunately the clergy don't have the same rights as normally employed, so he cannot do the tribunal root.
ReplyDeleteWhat is needed is a vote of no confidence by the diocesan conference in the process, the instigators and reinstate the Bishop. An extra ordinary conference can be called, one wonders why the laity are kept out of the loop. They are after all the paymasters in the diocese. Even the Cathedral PCC can do much more.
Where is the diocesan registrar surely his legal status has some merit. The longer the situation goes on, the less tenable the diocesan becomes, or is that the plan? If the UK media get this story it will be so toxic, for the whole Church, who are charged with bringing the joy a d love of serving Christ into the population Some example they are
Thank you for your suggestion about an extra ordinary Diocesan Conference.
DeleteI am a lay member of the conference so I guess that I could request a meeting.
Does anyone know the process for doing so?
Newport Parishioner, you will need to write to the Conference Secretary (Paul Glover at the Diocesan Office) to request such a meeting. I think he would need to receive letters from 10% of the membership of Conference (so about 20) before calling a meeting.
DeleteSo if there are other Conference members (clergy or lay) reading this blog they may also want to write to request an extra-ordinary meeting.
This process may circumvent the instransigence of the Archbishop.
PP, the following guidance for extraordinary meetings is give on the CinW website link is
Deletehttps://www.churchinwales.org.uk/resources/constitution-handbooks/constitution-of-church-in-wales/chapter-4a-regulations-relating-to-the-diocesan-conference/
@PP
DeleteI disagree with your assertion that Clergy don't have Employment rights.
All employees have basic fundamental rights as soon as they are taken on and even more rights after two years service.
Bishop Richard would be well advised to take the Employment Tribunal route and put it to the test for at least three reasons.
One, to establish clergy employment rights.
Two, it's free to start the process.
Three, the process now includes an automatic referral to the independent arbitration service provided by ACAS, guaranteeing him a fair hearing of his situation (would you honestly trust the Church in Wales to carry out anything fairly and truthfully nowadays?).
If the instigators refuse to engage in mediation, surely the focus of possible disciplinary action should shift from the exonerated Bishop on to them?
ReplyDeleteAlso, Ancient Briton refers to people supporting one side or the other, but according to the comments on this blog at least, the support appears to be going in one direction only.
Martin
Fair point Martin. I should have been clearer.
DeleteDuring the prolonged silence during which the bishop's name was not even mentioned, information reaching me from within the diocese and without suggested that there was a case to answer. The prolonged silence led to speculation which did not show the bishop in a favourable light.
Clearly the correct procedure was followed with, for some, an unexpected result which could explain the refusal to work with the bishop.
Nice letter in today's Western Mail that you might like to add to this thread AB.
DeleteI have not seen today's Western Mail LEV and have been unable to find the letter online.
DeleteIt's actually a half page article on page 14 that quotes extensively from a letter from all the area Deans.
DeleteIt does not appear to be online.
Clergy support bishop in formal complaint absence
DeleteWestern Mail – 29th December 2018
By Martin Shipton, Chief Reporter – martin.shipton@walesonline.co.uk
Senior clergy in the Monmouth diocese have written to the Archbishop of Wales in upport of their bishop, who has been off work for months following a formal complaint made against him by other clerics, including the dean.
Rt Rev Richard Pain has been the bishop since 2013.
Sources have told us that he has been at loggerheads with the dean, Very Rev Lister Tonge, for several years. The dean took up his post in 2012.
The Church in Wales has issued a statement which says:
“In recent weeks there has been speculation regarding the Bishop of Monmouth and about relationships within his senior team. The Archbishop of Wales is aware of these issues and remains actively engaged, with all parties, in a formal process of mediation which seeks to resolve them. It is not expected that the Bishop will return to his duties until nect year, but the work of the diocese continues, and the staff in the diocesan office and the senior clergy of the diocese will continue to provide guidance and support for those who need it.”
Now six area deans and eight ministry area leaders in the diocese have written a letter to the Archbishop of Wales, John Davies, supporting the bishop and saying they want to see him back at work as quickly as possible.
The letter states:
“During the time of Bishop Richard’s absence a variety of rumours have been circulating within the diocese concerning his health, well-being and good standing as a Bishop of the church in our province. With the exception of two emails – the first from our diocesan secretary when Bishop Richard first went off duty and the second from the Bishop himself shortly before the Diocesan Conference, we have been kept in the dark about the Bishop. While recognising that there may well be matters which require dealing with confidentially, the silence about Bishop Richard and being told to respect his privacy has meant that our Bishop has been in isolation from friends and colleagues in the diocese. It has also not served the diocese well as the lack of information about his well-being has only served to allow the most ridiculous of rumours to take hold. As a body we would like to express our complete and unreserved support for, and total confidence in, Bishop Richard. We are aware that allegations that were considered serious enough to warrant investigation were made against him by some of his colleagues. Without exception we have known our Bishop to be a deeply kind and caring pastor to his clergy who has supported many of us in some of the most challenging aspects of our ministries. Bishop Richard is much loved and respected not only among the clergy of the diocese but also amongst the lay members of the church from across the diocese in the parishes and communities amongst which he has served as curate, incumbent, area dean, Archdeacon and Bishop. His tireless work as our Bishop has been at great personal cost and the giving of his time by working on his days off and taking only a fraction of the holidays owed to him. We all want to see Bishop Richard back in post, as soon as his health allows, and we look forward to working as a team with him. We will work to ensure that he is supported, encouraged and enabled in his ministry as our chief pastor once again and we assure you that we will all do our utmost to support his personal wellbeing.”
Neither the bishop nor the dean wished to comment, and the Church in Wales has said it would be inappropriate to comment further.
Thank you Llandaff Pewster.
DeleteThe available evidence supports 'Monmouth Observer' and suggests 'Lukas' is either badly misinformed or full of bullsh*t.
Is Sister Lister preaching tomorrow?
DeleteMight almost be worth going to listen.
In addition to the suggestion above about the extra ordinary Diocesan Conference, the other way in which the parishes could get a response from the Diocese and the CinW is to withhold the Parish Share until the Bishop is reinstated. So Parish Treasurers should contact the Diocese (Accountant or Secretary) and tell them they will not pay their share until the Bishop is back (and maybe some of the numerous vacancies for which they are still paying, are filled).
ReplyDeleteWithholding significant amounts of money (Parish shares and collection monies) is far more likely to bring matters to a head than any number of calls/letters for an emergency Diocesan conference.
DeleteThere is absolutely no point in trying to play the game on their park with their ball following their rules.
A letter writing campaign addressed to Martin Shipton might also assist especially if it includes the amounts of money being withheld by Parishes and congregants.
I think that members of the Diocese of Monmouth should pursue both of the suggestions that have been made.
DeleteWithholding share payments will get attention but as the payments are made quarterly it may be some months before it has an impact. In the meantime letters of intent are always useful.
The advantage of a special conference is that it would allow a wide range of clergy and lay people to express their support for their Bishop and request that he returns immediately. The Archbishop would not be able to overturn the will of the Diocesan Conference. Therefore, I would also recommend letters requesting the conference.
Would it not be a wise move to invite a previous Bishop of Monmouth i.e. Rowan Williams to arbitrate between the Diocesan Bishop and the Senior Staff and try to seek some form of Christian reconciliation?
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if the Chichester Diocesan Registrar knows just what he is letting himself in for in moving to the west of Offa's Dyke?
I suspect that Lord Williams has had a belly full of this nest of vipers Father David. Let him enjoy his return to academia with our prayers, with our blessings and with our gratitude.
ReplyDeleteThere is bullying in Bangor Diocese. This lead to an ordinand being denied ordination at the last minute, as the bully (a gay Roman Catholic priest, now a CiW ministry area leader) said they could not work with them. The bishop is fully aware, but has totally failed to follow the procedures, resulting in the ordinand (and 30 others including retired clergy, lay readers and church wardens) leaving CIW for other local churches.
ReplyDeleteThe bishop's actions (or lack of) were reported to the Archbishop - no action! So all the evidence was sent to Canterbury.
Looking In from the Outside, one thing that is curious - to say the least - is that Dean Lister is apparently engaging in exactly the same kind of secretive shenanigans in Monmouth that he deplores when his chum in Oxford is subjected to them.
ReplyDeleteIn England, by this stage the Archbishop would have both instituted a formal Visitation and appointed a retired or suffragan bishop to caretake the diocese whilst the dispute is resolved. Nor are English Deans guaranteed jobs for life, as the former Deans of Peterborough & Exeter found out. In Peterborough the Dean jumped before being pushed, for lacking business acumen; but in Exeter the Bishop operated the trap door to remove a troublesome & under performing dean.
Further to the suggestions for action in the Monmouth Diocese I have just delivered a letter to my PCC Secretary requesting a meeting to discuss withholding our Ministry Share until Bishop Richard is reinstated.
ReplyDeleteI am confident that other parishes in the Abergavenny Ministry Area will follow our lead. The MA contributes over £200,000 per year so someone should listen to our call.
We are planning something similar in the Monmouth MA and we also contribute £200,000.
ReplyDeleteMaybe money will talk more than letters to Archbishop John.
Do not all priests have to swear allegiance to the bishop in all things legal and honest? This includes deans and archdeacons. Perhaps they all should read today’s New Testament reading Colossians 3.12-17
ReplyDeleteQuite as I was reading the NT this morning one could not help thinking of Monmouth. Is the Lord trying to be heard in all this?
ReplyDeleteI now have 5 members of the Monmouth Diocesan Conference who will contact the Conference Secretary to request an extra ordinary meeting. Not enough yet but a good start in the last 2 days.
ReplyDeleteI am sure there will be others....
PP The NT reading is inspired and may prick a conscious or too.
ReplyDeleteThe mention of Canterbury is intriguing. How can Canterbury become involved in CinW matters?
Praying for the Godly outcome that will restore the diocese to its rightful standing with His Lordship back in his rightful place among his people.
PP, I was wondering about that Canterbury reference too. If there's any prospect of oversight from Canterbury it would certainly change things but I'm doubtful whether it could happen.
DeleteMaentwrog Maestro, was there any response from Canterbury when they received the evidence?
No, Simon S, there was no response.
DeleteMaentwrog Maestro
PP. I know there is a mechanism in the constitution for Canterbury to become involved in election of Bishop's, if there is an impasse but in a matter like this, I have no idea. But surely if the AB can't solve it, there must be some mechanism. So if Mon has these issues and Bangor has issues who knows. Seems strange no pastoral oversight is not in place, like noted above.
ReplyDeleteAny "mechanism" is utterly irrelevant because in the Church in Wales "we continue as we please".
DeleteFor Christ's sake wake up to the reality, stop your giving and stop paying your Parish shares.
The "Province" has been ripping you off for decades, Parishes are disappearing, Priests are all but extinct and still the gullible pew sitters are expected to cough up.
39 Cathedral Road is being left to fall into disrepair, the pen-pushers are living the life of Riley in Callaghan Square, the homeless are still homeless the hungry remain unfed and Caiaphas is still taking her clergy on a jolly to Santiago di Compostela in about 20 weeks time.
John Pockett's letter was ignored and he was subsequently treated by Caiaphas to a bollocking.
Judges and their family are kicked out of the Cathedral on Christmas Eve and still the Capon and the Toad strut around crowing from the top of their dung hill.
When are you normal people going to wake up to the reality, pull the plug and drain the stinking swamp?
Can you tell us where in the Constitution this information is found please. I can't find anything about the ABC getting involved in elections in CinW
DeleteApparent Parishioner
Canterbury has no formal influence in Wales since 1920 and disestablishment.
Delete"no formal influence" but you would hope there could be a quick phone call - Archbishop to Archbishop - suggesting some action may be required?
DeleteExcept in marriage law of course with the ABC licence.
ReplyDeleteThe Archbishop of Canterbury did once have a vestigial role in the Constitution of the Church in Wales. If the Electoral College failed to agree on an appointment after three days the nomination passed to the Archbishop of Canterbury, who — it was assumed — might be sufficiently detached to rise above a squabbling melée.
ReplyDeleteThis was changed to the nomination passing to the Bench of Bishops during the period of office of — you’ve guessed it! — His Most Revd Darkness Dr B. C. Morgan: he who ruthlessly removed all the portraits of his predecessors from the bishop’s residence in Llandaff and, with cynical determination to destroy the past and forge the brave new future as he envisaged it, succeeded all too well in reshaping this once-great Province into the dispirited wreck we now have.
Pegasus
I think the Archbishop is being naive if he thinks that mediation will mean happily working together in the future. Trust has gone.
ReplyDeleteIn his excellent book "total forgiveness" R T Kendall points out that forgiving someone and moving on, doesn't mean that you want that person to dinner each week. You can genuinely forgive and move on, but that doesn't mean you want to work with, or trust, the senior staff that stabbed you in the back.
Employment Tribunals are of no use to members of the clergy because they are not employees but office holders. (There may be an exception in the case of hospital, prison or military chaplains.)
ReplyDeleteThis is well-established law, with priests/ministers of various denominations failing to get hearings in ETs.
Another nice article by Martin Shipton on page 15 of today's Western Mail AB.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the poison Tonge and Shirley are losing the PR battle....
ReplyDeleteFlock rebel over absent shepherd
1st January 2019
Western Mail, Page 15
By Martin Shipton, Chief Reporter – martin.shipton@walesonline.co.uk
Worshippers in the Diocese of Monmouth are considering withholding hundreds of thousands of pounds from the Church in Wales in protest at the continued absence of their Bishop.
Bishop Richard Pain has been off work for months following unspecified complaints made against him by the Dean, Lister Tonge, and other clerics.
Although complaints against the Bishop have not been upheld, he remains off work while a mediation process is under way.
Many clerics throughout the diocese have written in support of the Bishop. Now the campaign to see him back at work is being stepped up.
A member of Abergavenny Parochial Church Council (PCC) said: “Parishioners in Abergavenny have been appalled by the way our Bishop has been treated and want to demonstrate their dissatisfaction with the Church in Wales by withholding the payment of share.
“We have arranged PCC meetings for next week and will then confirm our intent to the Diocesan Accountant. The total share for our ministry area is £235k per year.”
It is understood that at least one other ministry area is also likely to discuss the withholding of funds.
We have also been passed copies of an exchange of letters that took place in November between staff in the Diocesan Office and John Davies, the Archbishop of Wales. The staff letter said: “[We] are deeply concerned about recent information that has come to light which suggests that his return to work is being hindered by senior colleagues… The continued uncertainty is causing incredibly low morale throughout the office and lack of leadership and direction is starting to impact on workloads. This difficult situation is having a real impact on our wellbeing and we are deeply concerned about how we move forward.”
In response, the Archbishop said: “In the current circumstances of an ongoing highly sensitive and confidential process, it would be quite improper and completely inappropriate for me to either make any comment upon the content of [your] letter other than to say that the fact that any “information” has come to the attention of the letter’s authors… indicates that the exceptionally important confidentiality which I and others have respected and sought to maintain has been breached. That is a very serious occurrence indeed which I will ask to be looked into.”
Responding to the possible threat to withhold funds, a spokeswoman for the Church in Wales said: “We understand that many people are frustrated with the situation but we continue to ask for their patience until the matter is resolved. We can confirm that no parish or ministry area has contacted the Diocese about withholding their parish or ministry share.”
Shirley obviously doesn't like receiving a letter of concern from the gophers in the Monmouth Diocesan office.
DeleteWhatever became of the investigation into the breaches of confidentiality by a Bishop during the recent Llandaff electoral college over the Jeffrey John affair?
The cloak of 'confidentiality' is too frequently used by the Church in Wales as a means of covering up its errors, shortcomings and incorrect or inappropriate actions or inaction. It is just too easy to say "we can't comment on that". People need to be held responsible for their actions or inaction.
DeleteSt Woolos Parishioner
PP. I hope the situation is defused soon as untold damage will be too hard to repair. Surely the way forward is to allow the Bishop back to his work, deal severely with the instigators. This is not an image one should expect from a Church. It makes mission impossible to engage and causes great pain to faithful clerics, diocesan officers and parishioners. Surely before it becomes a major media story, sensible leaders need to act and act fast.
ReplyDeleteTo the contrary.
DeleteThe Bishop's supporters would be well advised to send the story to the national broadsheets, tabloids, Private Eye and the Church Times.
One suspects being pilloried in the national press might provide Shirley with sufficient incentive to get off his backside and do something effective.
Quite so Episkopos, the chocolate teapot in Brecon squirming under the glare of national publicity might well be a catalyst for good.
DeleteToo Late P P.
ReplyDeletePP Thanks Watchman. So it's watch this space for fallout So very very upsetting for the faithful.
ReplyDeleteI am astonished that the all AD's and MAL's have supported the Bishop so early, without knowing the nature of the complaint. The original Martin Shipton article says it is not "sexual or financial". Indeed, these would, I suspect, have been very straightforward issues to prove. But there are issues which would be less difficult to prove, particularly those things were of a nature that could impair behaviour and decision making. I'm not a fan of the Archdeacons of Newport and Monmouth by any stretch of the imagination; the Dean - who is largely absent from the Diocese as a whole - is also difficult to warm to. However, these are the people who would have worked closest with the Bishop and would have seen any difficulties in his behaviour, which is why a mediated conclusion would be less than effective. I think the call to arms by Reverends Inclusion and Cellophane may get them a seat in the Cathedral if +Richard returns, but it simply managed to split the Diocese even more. The Dean and the Archdeacons have had some difficult things to do over the last couple of years; the fact that they have done them with grins, scheming and a marked absence of grace, is the reason - I suspect - the knives are starting to move towards them. A very sad situation that needs a quick conclusion and I fear Shirley isn't the man he thinks he is, otherwise he would have acted, instead of trying to detract attention from the issue by talking about breaches of confidentiality. Come on ladies, sort things out!
ReplyDeleteLukas
It has been widely reported that the complaints made against our Bishop are not sexual or financial in nature, have been found to be groundless by those tasked with carrying out the investigation and our Bishop cleared of any wrong-doing.
DeleteThe nature of the allegations are therefore irrelevant and it matters not a jot what the Area Deans know or don't know about Sister Lister's allegations.
The original Martin Shipton report referred to "an official of the Diocese who did not wish to be named" who said, "It is important to make it clear that there is no question of any sexual or financial impropriety on behalf of the Bishop". The article continued, "We now know that the Dean and some Archdeacons raised grievances about him [the bishop].
ReplyDeleteThe dean and two archdeacons must have felt sufficiently strongly about an unresolved matter or matters that they quite properly resorted to using the Church in Wales Disciplinary Policy and Procedure of The Clergy.
A grievance is a real or imagined cause for complaint, especially unfair treatment. Mediation is when an independent, impartial third party discusses a problem with the parties to try and find a solution.
That appears to be the position so it is preferable to allow the procedure to take its course especially since no details have been made public.
PP Totally agree AB. However, given the long standing an we'll accepted ministry of the Bishop, prior to his episcopal office, the Good standing of this humble man remains tarnished while this situation takes its toll on him his family and diocese. He must continue to be held in our prayers and support. As does the AB who needs the wisdom of Solomon in sorting this out.
ReplyDeleteSo if the bench entirely go against the constitution, to whom then can the 'plebs' turn to make a complaint? Are the bishops entirely untouchable? A vote of no confidence at GB?
ReplyDeleteSadly the bishops, like +Bangor in the recent bullying case which lead to an ordinand leaving the CiW just before ordination last year, simply ignore the rules if the offender is one of their pals. Nothing can be done, I'm afraid.
DeletePP Sue certainly has a good reputation from Durham they were sad to see her go. Perhaps tainting with the CinW bureaucratic nightmare maybe the problem. Whatever happens the diocese may end up reabsorbed into the wonder of Llandaff, now there's a tainted thought.
ReplyDeletePP, what are you taking? It is powerful stuff. Don't you realise that the Church in Wales only gets rid of Indians? Chiefs, however many there are, remain in post and their numbers grow. Monmouth reabsorbed into Llandaff - no way. They are more likely to split the diocese into two and have a Diocese of Newport and a Diocese of Monmouth, than to get rid of it altogether. That way, they could add an extra bishop, and extra Dean and two more archdeacons for the pew sitters to find money for.
DeleteSeymour
PP. Taking nothing Seymour. We all see the toxic situation with the hierarchy and agree to a point. Perhaps a game of musical thrones might be in order. Who ends up where, would be interesting. Until the RB gets heavy what will change, not a lot. Mon is just one problem to many.
ReplyDeletePP a good article in the Church Times today about Monmouth.
ReplyDeleteProbably a plant by the Bench PP. Nobody I know recognises the bishop from the glowing description of one of their number. Job
ReplyDelete