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Thursday, 8 February 2018

Mutual flourishing - that it should come to this


Synod voting to approve women bishops in 2014                                                  Source: BBC video


The Movement for the Ordination of Women (MOW) campaigned for women to become priests in the Church of England from 1979 to 1994 when the ordination of the first women took place at Bristol Cathedral. The Priests (Ordination of Women) Measure was passed by General Synod on 11 November 1992.

MOW was succeeded by Women and the Church (WATCH). In 2014 the General Synod of the Church of England formally approved plans for women bishops. There are now 2 diocesan women bishops and 10 suffragan bishops, one of which, the bishop elect of London has already been tipped to be the first woman Archbishop of Canterbury. But that is not good enough for WATCH. Their way must prevail and they are 'Just getting started'.

Following the selection of the first women bishops support was reportedly growing within the Church of England to rewrite its official liturgies to refer to God as a female and same sex marriage is high on the agenda.

In a BBC interview after the 2014 Synod vote which approved women bishops Canon Rosie Harper said "This is the culmination of many people's lifetime work and we've got there and it's been hard, it's been painful and all we've achieved is equality. We're not looking for superiority for women but we do now have equality."

That is not how it appears with the passage of time.

Also interviewed by the BBC, Archbishop Justin Welby said, "We rejoice that we have this opportunity to show a point. These remarkable women. There are some very wonderful ones. Today we can begin to embrace a new way of being the church and moving forward together (my emphasis - Ed.). We will also continue to seek the flourishing of the church of those who disagree."

Perhaps Canon Harper's name was on the archbishop's mind when he referred to "embracing a new way of being the church and moving forward together". Listening to Canon Harper's presentation at the Faith Debate on the future of the Church of England in December 2014. She said that without some considerable changes "the future of the Church of England is very bleak".

Harper went on to say, "In the context of global agony at the effect of bad religion, the C of E has simply lost the trust of the Nation and leaders in the spiritual and ethical values of our society. As a church which will not sign up to equalities legislation and scorns some aspects of human rights, it has moved in the opposite direction from the changes that society see as fundamental, ethical reform.

"OK they were bemused by the struggles to allow women to become bishops but I tell you, they are repelled by the way we claim to have God's authority to treat LGBTI people not only with discrimination but with downright cruelty."

If the church didn't follow Canon Harper's way of thinking she hoped the church does die out. It has followed her way of thinking and the Anglican church in the UK is constantly shrinking. The C of E has moved to reflect society rather than inform it. The LGBTI agenda is firmly established pressing the church to abandon the traditional view of marriage. Politics not faith has become the motivating force.

In 2016 the C of E’s decline was expected to continue for another three decades with figures of 18 people per 1,000 regularly attending church falling to 10 per 1,000. An 81-year-old was eight times more likely to attend church than a 21-year-old.

WATCH has gained so much influence that in 2018 Christian Today reports that the Archbishops of Canterbury and York find it necessary to call on parishes to recommit to a 2014 agreement that allowed for women bishops but also promised traditionalists who oppose female ordination 'mutual flourishing'.

There is no mutual flourishing in the Church in Wales. where two of the six diocesan bishops are women with the same agenda as their counterparts in England. The bench appears unable or unwilling to recognise the fact that the Church in Wales is on the rocks even after throwing the faithful overboard.

The Church of England supposedly supports 'mutual flourishing' but the Philip North Sheffield fiasco casts doubt on the integrity of those who signed up to mutual flourishing simply to achieve the culmination of many people's lifetime work to achieve equality as Canon Harper claimed.

That it should come to this!

35 comments:

  1. Invaluable comment, but until you come out - your identity I mean - it cannot be as effective as it might be. Such articles appearing in the press would accomplish more. Much more. Why not AB?
    Rob

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    Replies
    1. What's your real name Rob?
      June?

      Delete
    2. No, there's nothing untrue about Rob. I support AB thoroughly. Yet I firmly believe his necessary witness would be stronger if he declared his identity. After all, he spends so much time researching and writing.
      Rob

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  2. AB presents a viewpoint not heard in deaneries or the GB. Hurrah! for that. But his identity revealed in the Western Mail or national press would widen his influence.
    Tim

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    Replies
    1. You wouldn't know whether coming out would widen his influence or not until he had actually come out, by which time it would be too late to chage his mind. How it would affect his influence depends partly on who he is. I think he is wise to leave things as they are.

      Delete
  3. No it would not.
    It would merely provide bully boy --Bazza, Caiaphas and Capon to close down debate and dissent to their perverse and deviant doctrine .
    Did learn nothing from the Llandaffchester Chronicles and their demise???
    You fools.
    There is a war taking place for the very soul of Llandaff and you advocate appeasement and surrender?

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  4. I don't think that AB's anonymity is due to cowardice, but I have to agree that seeing his name in print would be likely to make him a force to be reckoned with instead of an unknown although informed, traditional Christian writer.
    St George

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  5. Yes, why not make your witness public? You can stand the pressure. And you may find you have more supporters than you think.
    Noreen

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  6. What do you say Ancient Briton? Why do you not declare your identity? I have not seen anything libellous in your blog. Why not tell the world? Surely the Western Mail would pay good money for a well researched, opinionated column such as you could supply?
    Stuart

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  7. Perhaps not so much Mutual Flourishing but more Mutual Admiration Society - heard yesterday in a speech by Justin Welby at the C of E's General Synod telling of the time he was interviewed for the post of ABC he recounted that representing the Anglican Communion on the Interview Panel was none other that Barry Morgan, Welby said of him "the Archbishop of Wales who is a wonderful man who did a wonderful job as Archbishop of Wales"
    From what I read on A B's Blog not all Walian correspondents would agree wholeheartedly with Welby's assessment!

    ReplyDelete
  8. On the contrary...Ab is anything but an informed traditional writer. His blog is often littered with hap hazard guesses at what is happening across the Church in Wales and almost always lacks insight. His blog smacks of someone writing from the outside who desperately wishes that he was inside. The level of theological debate is appalling and is rooted in a desire to stay put and shore up his position with sandbags. The content is often un-Christian in its treatment of people who hold differing viewpoints. No, I say let AB carry o playing with his blog where he is doing relatively little harm, and no-one takes much notice.Despite visitor numbers (I suspect many people visit when they are need of a good laugh) it would seem it is the same dozen or so bitter contributors who prop up his hyperbole. I struggle to think he would be taken seriously in the real world. Leave the poor demented soul be as he sinks ever deeper into his pit of bitterness and despair. Perhaps we shouldall pray for healing instead? Or at least a sense of humour!
    La Sophia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. La Sophia (what a vainglorious name!) yours is just the kind of dismissive comment that adds conviction to AB's posts. You are kind opponent any one would wish for who has a cause to promote. Keep writing in!


      Delete
  9. LA Sophia,
    Unjust. AB only has to put pen to paper to out write you. His copy is professional, and,therefore, respected. Yours is simply small time disagreement. He accesses many sources, has his ear to the ground and is one of the few traditional Anglican voices in the CinWs. His theology seems sound - certainly on female ordination and same-sex unions.
    I agree that some posts are poisonously gossipy, and that often contributions are marked more by their insults than remembered for their arguments. I also agree that, though he provides a safety valve for Anglo Catholics, insofar as his views appear anonymously on a blog rather than in a newspaper, that lose more than half their potential effect. Ancient Briton, tell us why.

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  10. Last comment should be signed Rob.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AB are you MW by any chance?
      St George

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    2. Comments for publication should concentrate on the message, not the messenger please.

      Delete
  11. That's all very well but it's time you came out of the shadows.
    Jim

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  12. For goodness sake leave A/B alone. You are very spiteful, inquisitive folk. Are you trying to close down the blog?
    He does a fine job.
    Catnap

    ReplyDelete
  13. You stay safely tucked away old codger, well away from the reach of Darth --Insidious, calamitous Caiaphas, the Capon and MrToad.
    There is still much important work to do in restoring Godly order to Llandaff and the Church in Wales.
    All the new nom-de-plumes all sound and write like the same person.
    The Siren voices are to be ignored.

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  14. I wouldnt recommend going public but I salivate at the thought of AB being interviewed on Anglican Unscripted!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. 2018 at 16:58
      Oh what an episode THAT would make. However I spoke out against Islam using my name and I was hauled over the coals, my wife and I suffered abusive calls and colleagues have distanced themselves from me, I was told by my Archdeacon,so have the bishops an Archbishop. However I also received support from all over the world (my case was in the press and on the Breitbart website and radio) including from a Cardinal Bishop. I can only suggest AB carries on as He feels comfortable. But carry on I hope he will for a long time.

      Delete
  15. Therefore remain ineffective bloggers consoling one another: no more.
    St George

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  16. The commentator posing with a number of identities demanding AB's exposure is either the Bishopette herself, or the new Chaplain doing her ladyship's bidding. If AB's contributions were worthless gossip, then the Bishopette's High Command would just ignore him. The fact that there is a concerted effort to exposure him only goes to prove that he is publishing many uncomfortable truths.
    As the pond shrinks, those who would be big fish appear to get bigger. But when the pond dries up, all that is left are the stinking carcases of the beached big fish. The water level is dropping in the little pond that is the CinW. The big fish are exposed, and the fetid odour of decay is everywhere.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, speaking personally, I do not even live in Glamorgan. As it happens I identify with most of AB's views - strongly. I simply believe that what can be achieved through an anonymous blog is limited. It's AB's decision, of course. But the danger is of operating within a bubble. There'll be no more from me at any rate.
      St George

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    2. St. George won't go public him/her self but when challenged takes flight?
      Typical invertebrate!

      Delete
    3. 1549 - some rally wishful and disillusioned thinking on your part. I wouldn't flatter yourself or AB into thinking that you had any influence on the CinW or is thinking regarding the future. As for the swamp, if this blog were to disappear, then job done! La Sophia

      Delete
  17. I know from personal experience that if you raise your head above the parapet in the CiW and disagree with the Bishops, you and your Church pay. It's sad but explains why people use pseudonyms on this blog.
    Without the blog many of us would have no idea of anything that is happening.
    I don't agree it is useless as we all know many on the Bench plus diocesan officers read it, so at least they can see how people are feeling.
    Many of the CiW high ups, use lies and deceit, therefore this blog, I believe is a justified response.
    Sorry to be off topic AB, but you are doing a great job and don't deserve this attack!

    ReplyDelete
  18. None of you get it. AB has not been attacked - rather admired - by most of the respondents. You do not read what is written, and, therefore, respond in a petty way. The question is how to work to maintain the Faith most effectively. Even if some of the bishops do read the blog occasional!y, what of the rest of the Church?
    Rob

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    Replies
    1. No, it is you that doesn't get it.
      What of the rest of the Church?
      Read the viewing numbers.
      More and more are reading this blog daily and you could tell all your friends to do likewise!
      We're still waiting for you to come clean about your own true identity "Bob".

      Delete
    2. Yes, the viewing numbers are large, yet I am dubious whether an anonymous blog can produce the changes we want. Trump is effective because he is known to write his own tweets.
      However since AB has written strongly against Islam, there would undoubtedly be a fearful backlash if his identity were to be disclosed, as an earlier commentator suggested. So it's a lot to ask, probably too much. But anonymity does weaken the witness.
      Rob

      Delete
  19. The new Archdeacon of Bangor is hotly tipped to be Rev Mary Stallard, formerly of the Diocese of St Asaph and a good friend of Bangor’s puppet-master.

    The new Archdeacon of Anglesey is a less obvious choice but is doubtless a crony of one of the senior management team. The adjectives ‘young’ and ‘energetic’ have been suggested, so let us hope that s/he is a worthy successor to the much missed Ven Paul Davies.

    Meanwhile, Bob appears to have vanished!

    Menai Drudge

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  20. From 'Bob the builder', to what is now 'Bob the mime', specialist of liturgy, photography and fasting, of the award wining 'Glan Aethwy Choir', who will soon learn whether 'Opportunity Knocks for Him folks'. After all, 22 years of virtual begging for recognition, under a cloud, must be demeaning even when one is as thick skinned and arrogant as he. But wait a minute Mr AB, 'Baldwick has a cunning plan'. Give Bob 'the mime' an OBE (Order Breakfast Early) for effort,. It worked for CYTUN.

    Albert Tysilio

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  21. What does the last post mean? I am baffled.
    1552

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  22. Baffled? Little knowledge is dangerous 1552. It is a former bishop of Bangor who gave cause to this blog,Llanfairchesterchronicle, and Scandal and Offence. Elementary dear chap.

    Cadnant Bridge

    ReplyDelete