A fat salary for doing bugger all, a non-contributory pension to collect when you've finished doing bugger all and unaudited discretionary petty cash to spend how you like until that day arrives. What's not to like?
Less than nine years have elapsed but five of the six have left in disgrace as Fatboy Slim clings on by his finger nails. Never never never trust (Church in Wales) bishops.
My fear is Lux et etc., that if the Llandudno 'joyous' talking shop gets the election of Bangor wrong (again), then its not the future of the existing bishops which need bother us .... but the desertion of more decent Diocese of Bangor parish priests to other diocese (and indeed out of Wales) which will be the downfall. Too many of them simply quit under Andy John. Even more if Manon James succeeds to the See. She's apparently not popular. Nor - for those with memories of Townsend's brown-nosing +John is the other local contender.
Not really good enough 'Y Parch'. Most church-attending congregants are 'prayerful' and follow the gospels 'with faithfulness'. What we expect of Parish Priests and those elevated to higher office is significantly more than that. Far, far more and not just sitting in clergy conferences, attending retreats and navel-gazing waiting for the Spirit of the Lord to descend as a dove to sort it all out. God, I am sure, would prefer action to repetitions of Prayers.
you believe all I do is sit in conferences, attend retreats and navel gaze, and pronounce judgement without knowing me or my colleagues throughout the diocese.
@ Celt. In my case (above), the answer is yes. The not-so-distant days when there'd be decent congregations, when Vicars engaged in 'pastoral care', visitations of the sick, etc. There'd be vibrant Sunday Schools, Mothers' Unions, the priest would be seen in the local pub, Vicarages were 'open-door', churches would be the attractive place for Saturday weddings; infant Baptisms at the font were common place, crematoriums were there simply for that purpose ... not as more secular option of avoiding the local church and parish priests studied post graduate Theology or Divinity, not social services or nail-clipping, Churches across Wales Wales focussed on contributing to the world communion such as CMS, Mission to Seamen, Barnados, SPCK and not in wasteful funding on cosmetics, the employment of more and more non-back-office 'advisors' , administrators, chief Execs; IT and PR executives, Aga Ovens, cathedral pews, LGBTQ flags, offsite conferences in Rome and America, huge pay-offs to clergy threatening employment tribunal action against their diocese etc. More particularly, the days when Vicars could actually deliver a 10-12 minute sermon which might have some scriptual or Biblical meaning rather than a 'stand-up' waffle of banal nonsenses - some even verging on political - delivered today.
Yes. Things were better in my day. Churches were filled. Parishioners were happy. Clergy didn't stab each other in the back. I think 'my day' came to its end when the affects of Barry Morgan's style of leadership creeped in into the parishes of Wales and the priesthood itself (apart from the Wimmin Lobby and later the LGBTQ cabal) simply threw their towels in.
I know that some posters are opposed to the ordained ministry of women. I do not share their view. I am, however, totally opposed to the preferment of incompetents and/or people who damage others. This appointment drives me to despair.
Having dispatched one Bishop renowned for incompetence, mishandling of situations, and alleged to have bullied many, the electors have promptly replaced him with one of similar ilk. A Dean who promised much and delivered nothing, made an appalling situation even worse, by all accounts, and carries with her allegations of bullying from at least one previous role.
The people and good frontline clergy of the Diocese have been extremely badly served by the electors, and badly let down by the denomination. They deserved far better. I fear it is now the end for the Diocese of Bangor, not because the new Bishop is a woman, but because all signs point to her episcopacy being a case of more of the same.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, until it all ends.
Shan't waste my breath saying: 'let's see how it pans out'. I know the outcome. Total failure. Who to blame? ++Vann for (a) appointing her as Dean of Bangor post SRE debacle and (b) not accounting her for her failings whilst in post. That's me done with Bangor and the C-in-W.
And there it is in a nutcase! The chocolate 🍫 teapot has been replaced with a chocolate teapotette. Quelle bloody surprise🤦 The dash to oblivion increases speed.
When i was a curate. I was at lunch with Manon as my IME officer and had to sit through her and another female colleague discuss the quality of male clergy bottoms in the diocese. Stuart Ash won the contest from what i remember.
At a later date. She disclosed highly personal information about me to a family member. Information she gained from a professional capacity. She raised it with him believing he already knew and wanted a gossip about it. The latter was within the last 12 months.
Can we have a picture of Stuart Ash's bottom so that we can judge for ourselves? It might be that Manon has very good taste! The thing is you yourself remember that Ash won the contest, so I suspect it's a judgement you agreed with. How funny.
The Church in Wales has become so intoxicated by its own sense of importance that it appears genuinely to believe nobody can see through its games. It operates with the complacency of an institution convinced that accountability is for other people and that the wider public will simply accept whatever absurdity is presented as wisdom. Yet people can see perfectly well what is happening. They can see appointments that defy credibility, decisions that mock common sense, and a culture that too often appears more interested in protecting reputations than pursuing truth.
What is most astonishing is not the conduct itself but the apparent belief that nobody will notice. The Church behaves like a medieval court surrounded by loyal courtiers applauding every misjudgement while the rest of the world looks on in disbelief. It speaks endlessly of justice, integrity, and discernment, yet too often appears incapable of applying those principles to itself. Every perverse decision, every act of institutional self-preservation, and every display of breathtaking arrogance chips away at what little moral authority remains.
The real scandal is not that these things occur. The real scandal is that those responsible seem genuinely convinced that everyone else is too foolish to recognise them.
The little tryst’s on the sea front of Llandudno governing body between cherry and mannon, the side comments of things will be changing in a direction of a Welsh speaking female Bishop by ++ Gregory at the last GB etc etc makes the whole process a complete mockery……if ever there was a reason to believe in the day of reckoning……it is today, you will be held to account for what you have done to our church.
Exodus, no not a lesbian, quite a huntress by all accounts, regularly commented on here is her lascivious and inappropriate ways with the male ordinands under her care while at StPadarns..and of course the scandal surrounding the poor dumped ex husband Dave Parry……quite the choice….!!
Have a look at the Church in Wales Facebook page, and the pictures after Manon s election. The whole electoral college is outside Holy Trinity Llandudno looking and applauding . But if you didn't know otherwise they are applauding empty space. There is nobody there. They are looking at nothing. And that probably sums it up. There is nothing there anymore. We are applauding God-knows-what. The pictures are both very funny and very sad. And more than anything shows the disconnect by now between the leadership and the rest of us. The pictures are quite haunting, a group of people clapping but at what and why?
I see another problem in the AB photo challenge. It's surely AI generated. It suggests that a man-priest is actually cuddling a female priest!! Outrageous in these modern C-in-W times when such behaviour was to have been stamped out. Next you'll know is that they'll be blessing mixed (hetrosexual) marriages. The end is nigh.
What wonderful news that we have returned to equality for women amongst the Bishops. I am delighted that Rev Dr Manon has been appointed given her scholarly background and the desperate need to rid Bangor of its widely-reported issues. We need strong female leaders and academics amongst our Bishops in order to bring back the youth to our declining Church. Finally I see a way forward for our church - that is rid of its toxic masculinity and embraces the feminine future of the church.
Oh dear. Here we go again. Seems from True CinW Feminist (above) comment that what a Bishop has within her knickers, or underpants, as the case might be, is all that matters. Then the other celebration of Manon James appointment as the Great Redeemer who will return the CinW to the Capel Fawr all-Welsh (but long dead) tradition.
Ah well. Good luck to CinW Feminist in her championing that church pews and communion alter rails be packed with Lesbo 'wimmin' and toxic men can go suck eggs. Not sure if Christ might see it that way, He and his disciples were all Men and none, I believe, ardent Welsh language speakers.
Bye-bye CinW.. At least you saw 100+ years through before you self-imploded.
Are you even in the Bangor doicese? Is that you Peggy, or is it Jenny or Joanna? The toxic feminazis and their queered theology are the real problems and congregant numbers will just collapse further, but of course the RB will conceal the ongoing decline.
How did that go in St David’s with Joanna Penberthy? Now the Dean who’s run the Cathedral into the ground. How did it go with June Osborne in Llandaff? The truth is choosing candidates based on gender is totally wrong.
Manon has been a senior part of the regime for some time now. And all ive seen is decline. Im not aware of her generating any substantial growth in any of the capacities she's worked in so far. Im not entirely sure what her ministry has contributed as of yet? So, perhaps it will all change now she's a bishop. Perhaps shes been saving it for this moment. Lets wait and see.
Converted exile, my concerns go much further than questions of growth or leadership. From my perspective, Manon is a deeply divisive figure. I do not see her as someone who has sought to bring people together across different traditions and viewpoints within the Church, in fact the opposite, only within the last 9 months did she appear in disciplinary proceedings accused of bullying a vulnerable ordinand who had to finish her final year away from the St Padarns as a result… these are not spurious accusations but fact that the likes of Vann (knowing full well) has sought to hide and gloss over
My impression is that she represents a particular ideological outlook which many people feel excluded (by virtue of gender, class, tradition or nationality) by rather than included within. Whether fairly or unfairly, there are significant numbers of people who view her appointment with concern rather than enthusiasm, and I think it is a mistake to dismiss those concerns as irrelevant or reactionary.
Let’s not forget her self proclaimed hobby of a stand up comic where she stood in front of an audience in Rhyl comedy club and delivered her line, “I am a priest in the Church in Wales so let me begin by apologising for the paedophiles”, just a few years ago..as declared to the students of her college in yet another booze fuelled residential weekend, (which if anyone would care to submit a freedom of information request) would discover run into approximately £30,000 per weekend x 4 times per year….again self proclaiming that she reserves the best rooms with the best facilities and expenses for the bar for the staff as their ‘reward’,
This is one of the most worrying appointments in history which I am sure will show that the Bangor appointments previously made will have seemed positively divinely inspired.
I have also heard many very concerning things of the culture and operation of the training institution, some of which have involved the new Bishop, and I have some first hand experience of it, though not of her and I certainly did not train there. I have to be fair to her here and say that one person who is not the Principal does not have the influence to make or break the culture of such an institution, especially with so bullish a character as that institution’s Principal. But from what I hear, the two of them were ‘peas in a pod’ in certain ways, not least in their overbearing and sometimes bullying behaviour towards staff and students who fell foul of them. As things like whether your face fits and vindictiveness have been such damaging features of Bangor Diocese for quite a number of years now, that they’re very likely to continue is dreadful.
You mentioned people feeling excluded..... I'd add to that.... political view. The trend is liberation theology based on Marxism....Any of us who don't agree with this teaching are therefore excluded. Students are taught this dangerous political view as standard then go on to preach it. Yet in the ever empty pews, people hold diverse views. Danny Jones.
Don't be absurd. Any such criticism would be forthcoming from the hypocritical priests and high priests already in his house making mockery, changing money and preaching falsely, just as it was in his day. He'd be spending time with the outcasts which today are the abandoned traditionalists and faithful adherents, not those practising the Living in Lust and Filth gueered trans drivel. Bewildered
If only half the 'first hand' comments raised in only this low-audience website of CinW priests and congregants are true, then Manon James has had a full career of being given second-chances and her faux pas generously 'forgiven'. How many 'chances' should be overlooked or pardoned. Now that she has reached the Bench of Bishops, then not a single one more. First step out of line - and I predict there will be - ++Vann MUST boot her out. In ordinary employment she ought to be deemed to already be on 'final written warning'. A very disappointing outcome that the people of Bangor didn't deserve.
That’s pretty much what I said when she was appointed Dean. I don’t necessarily think I was wrong - anyone coming into that situation deserved to be given a chance to prove themselves up to the task. But she has not done that as Dean, so I’m not inclined to think that way about her in an even more demanding role with even more issues to address.
This was the last chance to save the See of Bangor. It was not taken. Some of the concerns raised are pretty common knowledge in CiW about the Bishop-Elect. Her treatment of students at SPI has been found by due process on at least one occasion to my knowledge as wrong. It looks like that might not have been an isolated case. I wonder if electors drilled down into her SPI employment record at the Electoral College?
I am afraid WHAMAB, that yes ++Vann as Bishop with responsibility for training Knew/knows full well of the employment record and troubles therein. It is an absolute disgrace and cover up that this has been allowed to happen. The very sad thing is that while Fr Duddleswell mentions the principe as a ‘factor’ those whom had oversight of ordinands there will know..duff in every sense was never there… too busy playing housewife while his +wife did her thang! The whole institution had take. Advantage of the process and if one were to look at the figures , “St Padarn’s receives over £3.3 million per year. With around 24 ordinands entering training annually, that equates to approximately £138,000 per ordinand before any adjustment for other activities.” One can see how badly managed under Manon’s watch this has been.
He already has, very sadly to the detriment of the good and faithful servants who suffer under his chosen henchmen.... misogyny, prejudice, over worked, under supported and not a clue which budget they are working to. Dismayed.
So where, now, is my former place of worship - much loved in those days - left now with Manon James having deserted her promises to the cathedral congregants that she would sort out its problems; the fourth in quick succession to hand in the keys of the Deanery (with the exception of questionable gender, SRE all being women). Presumably in another 12-18 months of limbo even if decent applicants come forward prepared to take on this once vibrant cathedral. If Manon James can con the Bench that she's mustard for Bangor See, then no gumption required to imagine who or what might take her place as Dean of Bangor. She presumably will be the appointee. God forbid.
I well remember being pary of a ‘consultation’ to choose a then rural dean. There was a good discussion and some enthusiasm. We were told by the then archdeacon that all this would be fed back to the then bishop and acted upon. A day later in a conversation with a clergy spouse I was told that her husband had been asked to be the rural dean a week before. One thing I really hate is to have my intelligence insulted. If that s how you run things, fine, make the decision and present it as a done deal. But don’t pretend some collaboration. As I said before on this blog, once Manon Ceridwen s mitre was in the ring that is who it would be. Say that then and don't go through a costly cod process that feigns a consultation. Be the ‘dictatorship ‘ that you are. What has gone is integrity. I am more than willing to accept that the religious situation in Wales is really dire and that no one knows what to do. I listened to Manon on Bwrw Golwg on Sunday. Dear dear! The same platitudes that are by now totally meaningless. The situation is way way beyond her and anyone else for that matter. But a good starting place is honesty about it all. That will be painful beyond belief. Full of tears. But at least it will be honest. The Cathedral is a case in point. No one has told the truth. Archdeacons who know what went on. The whole bench of bishops. Manon herself. Dare be honest. As it stand, nobody believes you anyhow. So you have nothing to lose and all to gain. To you Manon I say it is no way to start your episcopal life by hiding the truth about the Cathedral . If you dont your ministry will be shadowed by it. Stop the deceptions please. About the cathedral and the whole religious world of Wales.
I think ++Cambrensis' charade about delaying the electoral college has been shown to have been a complete farce with Manon's appointment as Dean being upended by her election as Bishop. They should've trusted the process and replaced Andy John in the time honoured manner. It just looks to me like they've trodden water needlessly. Wonder how the Cathedral feels - really feels - to have had another Dean go after only eight months.
I think I can answer that one WHAMAB even though many within the Cathedral and Clergy of the wider diocese know who 'Ad Clerum' is. The consensus of most in Bangor is disbelief and despondent anger that the process allowed such a charade and that ++Vann nodded it though. There's a very belated regret by many that +David Morris was thrown to the dogs and so badly 'denied' by the same Bench of Bishops and among those outer-rural clergy I know, a genuine expectation - akin to the ousting of Keir Starmer - that many more resignations and transfers to other diocese will follow once Manon James is installed and fails the first six-months test. Her agenda and leadership 'style' isn't everyone's cup of tea. Unlike the majority of the congregants/members/donors most of her clergy know her 'CV'. So too does ++Cherry Vann.
Converted Exile seems to suggest that Robert Townsend might be ready to step into the mire. I doubt it very much.
You make a very good point, Ad Clerum, and one I never thought I would support - amazing how things change in response to the bizarre world of church machinations. I have huge reservations about Bishop Morris’ capacity for ethical and healthy leadership - not least because of his alleged part in the SRE era and lack of transparency and accountability in the aftermath. But in the light of what has happened since, I can’t help but wonder if he might have been a better choice as best of a pretty grim bunch of likely contenders.
You think the Deanery won’t interest the Archdeacon - again not the worst thing given that he was in post when everything imploded. How about Mystic Meg of Llangollen? I really hope it doesn’t, but who else is there, especially with the prospect of who the new Bishop is?
I disagree. I don’t think Manon was at the reported £50k do at the London Yacht Club in a cassock and raising a ‘free’ glass of wine, whereas Morris was!
The saddest thing of all is that all of this speculation is a waste of time, energy and money? Why? Because the Cult in Wales is a complete and utter irrelevance to our society and less than 10,000 Sunday worshippers could give a flying fig. Biscuit.
As is your own post if what you say it true Cymru’r Groes. A waste of time commenting on an irrelevance. There are some wonderful Christians still left in the Church in Wales, even if society doesn’t notice them God does.
I know far more wonderful people outside the Cult in Wales. What God? Your invisible imaginary omnipotent friend who needs such cretins on the bench to represent him, interpret his wishes and inform the rest of us? Right, right. Bewildered
Amazed you even spend one second of your life commenting if it means so little to you. Perhaps you are just a troll is the explanation. Why else would you spend time on this blog if that’s how you feel?
Let’s just face it shall we. The Church in Wales is dead, it’s beyond help at this point. It’s had countless opportunities to redeem itself and to change for the better, and even more opportunities to learn from its mistakes and errors.
Let it die with some remaining dignity. You’d put a dog down for less.
Agreed 💯% As long as the "Cathedrals" become museums and the Churches become Community Centres, Libraries, Cafés, Pubs, ice skating rinks, Climbing Centres etc... Anything but Mosques.
The Church in Wales walked away from God and me, with a Harvey Smith gesture, thirty years Exodus ago. Neither of us have missed it one bit. It is now a house built on sand and I hope I live long enough to see it collapse on itself.
There is a striking lack of Christian charity in many comments on this feed and yet many of you present yourselves as committed Christians. Many comments include: mockery, ridicule, name-calling, gossip, speculation about private lives, crude sexual insults, delight in humiliation. Examples include: "slapper" "fatboy slim" "chocolate teapotette" "wet circus seals" comments about clergy's bodies, speculation about sexual orientation, insults aimed at women clergy. Even if some criticisms have factual foundations, the way this is expressed here frequently moves from criticism into contempt. For me, as a Christ-follower, this sits uneasily alongside New Testament teaching about the basics of Christ-like speech, i.e. avoiding slander, gossip, coarse talk, and judging others' motives.
As for coarse talk, is it safe to assume you took that up with former Bishop of Monmouth Richard Pain, following the reports of foul language and heavy drinking among the senior clergy of the diocese? Then no doubt you took the former dud Capon in the Llandaff Deanery to task over avoiding slander and judging other's motives when he was writing his poison pen letters to Parishioners and referring to them as "subversives" from his pulpit? How about "I am the accuser" Caiaphas Juno and her false allegations directed towards elderly Parishioners? Former Bishop of St. Davids Carl Cooper and his lies trying to cover up his adultery with his Chaplainette randy Mandy? Or former Bishop of St. Davids Joanna and her rabid "Never never never trust a Tory" ranting? Or the convicted paedophiles, former Bishop of Swansea (about which lots of senior clergy knew but did nothing) and former Canon Nigel Cahill?
Is that the kind of speculation, rumour, gossip, mockery and crude behaviour you mean? Bewildered
Oh, and just to be clear, listing the alleged failings of others doesn't justify mockery, personal abuse, crude nicknames, speculation about people's private lives or delight in humiliating them. If anything, it reinforces the need for everyone - including those commenting here - to examine their own conduct. It's perfectly possible to criticise wrongdoing firmly and truthfully without abandoning charity. Those two things are not in conflict. well, not in my world, but perhaps in yours?
No one suggested that clergy should be immune from criticism, or that wrongdoing should be ignored. If bishops, clergy or anyone else have behaved abusively, dishonestly or criminally, they should be held to account. The question raised was different: does our own manner of speaking reflect the standards we claim to uphold? Pointing to other people's sins doesn't justify mockery, insults, or contempt in our own speech. In fact, if those examples demonstrate anything, they demonstrate why Christians should be especially careful not to perpetuate the same culture of abusive discourse. It's possible to speak truthfully, even forcefully, without resorting to ridicule or personal abuse. That was the point being made, and your reply doesn't really engage with it. Lazy.
I fully agree with Outsider. An honest, critical debate about the future of the Welsh province is much needed, but why can't it be on the level of the debates we find on sites like Thinking Anglicans, or Surviving Church? If only there was a site like that with a Welsh focus. More substance, less ad hominem/feminam venom. Howitzer
As they have so ably demonstrated over the last three decades at least, the plankers on the Welsh bench and the fools in the RB aren't interested in honest or critical debate. Why and how do you think Ancient Briton and the wonderful LlandaffChester Chronicles ever came into existence?
My first comment on this blog - I completely agree with Outsider and Howitzer. Perhaps the most disturbing feature of this blog is the anonymity. Christians live in the Light. Commentators should give their true names.and be open to public scrutiny of their views.
I disagree Julian. When I write, I write nothing that I would be unable to defend, should it cross my Bishop’s desk and I be called to account for it - yes, even the more direct of my critiques and the satire I sometimes use to make my point and emphasise the utterly ridiculous level to which some things have sunk. But I write under a pseudonym because some church authorities mistakenly view vindictiveness, defensiveness and oppression of those who oppose them as the same thing as calling to account in a spirit of justice (Christian or secular). So I do not want to make it easy for them to silence me or act in retribution. If we’re going to use proof texting to make the point (something I really try not to do) I recall reading ‘retribution is mine, says the Lord’ in Scripture.
I do still call myself a Christian, albeit a very imperfect one, so it goes without saying that I write in full knowledge and acceptance that one day (and at my age that day becomes ever closer) I will have to give account for my conduct before the one true judge, as will we all.
Of course, if you'd been around during the reign of Darth --Insidious, Satan's imp Byzantine Barry, the grand Mufti of all the faiths and his coven headed up by Peggy the Pilate, Julian come lately, you'd know why! Fr Duddleswell Is obviously better acquainted with the modus operandi of those engaging in the dark arts.
Julian, Outsider, and Howitzer.....i strongly encourage you to set up such a blog. Let's see if people are drawn to it. Let's see the immesurable good it will do. I fear the church in wales has bread the poison you soeak against.
If the jokers who run and lead the Church in Wales knowingly or unknowingly act as clowns and comedians [Bishop-elect Manon James openly yearning to become a stand-up comic), then it seems only courteous that those of us in the audience give them the appreciation of applause by way of laughing. And if, as I have over many years, been able to forensically nail down some of the true authors of pseudonyms used on this blogsite, then you'll see that many of them are clergy (retired and serving) who combine with the rest of us in mocking their colleagues. Perhaps, unlike the rest of us, they contribute their venom out of the frustrations of not having their voices heard by their own Bishops.
But, as said, if you set yourself up to be court jesters, then expect rotten eggs and soggy tomatoes to be thrown your way. Its a form of appreciation.
A Observer, there is an old truth that power fears not anger nearly as much as laughter. Anger can be dismissed as malice, laughter is much harder to silence because it usually exposes a contradiction everyone else has already noticed. Institutions are rarely damaged by satirists. More often they are damaged by leaders who provide satirists with an endless supply of material and then wonder why the audience keeps returning for the next performance….although judging by the (medical term) Class 3 Bishop bumbling his entitled way through the recent ordinations up here in North Wales you wouldn’t believe it wasn’t intentional………..A truly cring worthy performance for us in the mandated throng without the ability or option to hide the shame in our ‘so called’ entitled, sorry enlighten leaders ineptitude.
Much as I said St Asaph, except expressed with more eloquence and insight into the psychology of humour. And this, perhaps, is why Ancient Britain has become the welcome platform it is ... to act as pressure valve for venting off. Priests read it - indeed you could well be one of them - so why on earth don't the senior clerics hold the pages before the mirror and then realise what absolute berks they are.
Years ago, Harry Wallop, the Daily Telegraph's Consumer Affairs correspondent listed 150 professions, ranking each by their level of humour. Amazingly, Undertakers came within the top three and clergy ... third bottom of the list as the least likely to enjoy a laugh. Says a lot really. Because they don't understand what humour is, they fail to realise that they are the butt of it.
That hasn't always been the case. I could name several outstanding clergy from years gone by whose humour was second to none and very often directed at themselves. The acid test occurred when others directed humour at their clergy and the clergy were heard laughing the loudest.!
I wasn't certain I still had it and it took me a while to locate it in the filing system.
St. Bride's 3 The Green Laandaff CARDIFF
The Reverend Canon Harold Rew Commissary to the Lord Bishop of Central Tanganyika
Following the corrupt followings of the Apostles, our Holy Mother, the Church in Wales, via her disowned sister - the unhily Church of Rome - (commonly called "auntie") doth permit her weaker br,ethren for the strengthening of Faith, (which oft grows dim for the want of a "Rag") the aid of relics (described in Canon Law as: "a part of a body or other object RELIGIOUSLY cherished from its having belonged to some Saint") PROVIDING that there is not paid to the alleged Relic "Divine Adoration", but just "worship" (see Marriage office). BUT, Canon Law of both our Holy Mother and "Auntie" stipulates that ALL RELICS must be "lawfully gotten", NOT PURLOINED: and, Moreover the said Relic must beat the IMPRIMATUR of one competent to attest to the authenticity and genuine eds of the Relic.
Permission is therefore given by this document under seal for the Venerable and Ancient Foundation of St. Michael - and All Angels??? - Llandaff, to RETAIN and have in use, for the SOLE PURPOSE of veneration of a Holy Man, who, for his constancy in hearing the Holy Office of Evensong mutilated DAILY for the period of a whole month, (a penance no Confessor would EVER impose upon the worst of sinners!), has been robbed and stripped of his lawful clothing, I.E., ONE BIRETTA NOIR AVEC PURPLE POMPOM, (the very sign of one "having authority") once the PERSONAL property of the aforesaid Holy Man: PERSONALLY worn by him: and TEMPORARILY laid up in the Cathedral Church of S.S. Peter & Paul, Llandaff. Together with the permission hereby given, the aforesaid College of ALL ANGELS? is also granted the RIGHTS AND INDULGENCES which are, by CANON LAW, attached to all AUTHENTIC Relics: I e., "MAY YOU ALL FAIL YOUR G.O.E.". This indulgence is for 1000 days and can only be shortened by the "redemption" of the aforesaid Relic.
"YOUTH'S ODE TO WHO?" or The rape of the Pompom (A Rewful Tale)
Adown the glade, Where the Cathedral slumbered in the old trees' shade, Guess who, was busy with the tourist trade?
Then suddenly, an anguished cry rang out - "'Tis fled" It said. "I dread that it may sit on some unhallowed head- My little hat, for which I was so long an ardent seeker; My purple trophy from the wilds of central Tanganyika."
Then tolled the bells in solemn tone: "Thus fares Pride" said the bells of St. Bride. "The reward of all spikes" said the bells of St. Mike's. "No more ceremonial orgies" said the bells of St. George's. Then they laughed freely- all the bells of Super Ely.
MORAL. It is always much better To keep a padlock on one's second best Biretta.
The issue under discussion is the sense of humour (or more typically the lack thereof) of clergy. Harold Rew was a short rotund jocular character who was more camp than a row of tents at a scout jamboree and, as demonstrated above, was possessed of a fine sense of the absurd. He was well liked and certainly nothing like that absurd creature SRE. I recall his response to being asked about the prospect of female ordination - he didn't understand what all the fuss was about since the Church had been ordaining "old women" for centuries.
I am suprised those who dont like this blog are so vocal on it. Something draws them here and something threatens them. I was informed about 'thinking anglicans' over a decade ago. I contributed a little bit and read stuff, but after a while, i realised it was nit my cup of tea. Ive never been on it since and didnt know it still existed until mentioned above. But the effort that has gone into shutting down the llandaffchester chronicles and the attempts to subvert this blog. Is it because there is truth the criticism. Granted not always put in the flowery language those who think christianity is all about being fluffy with each other. I wonder how many people tried to get John the Baptist shut down, or felt he should have been more cosy with his rhetoric. At the end of the day, evil does not like a mirror being held up to its face.
There was an excellent chapter published a few years back in a book about psychology in ministry by Fraser Watts that was about the toxicity of expected niceness in churches, especially the projections onto clergy. Well worth a read if your starting point is all Christians should just be nice to each other all the time.
I see old ‘by name and by nature’ from St Paddywhack’s has now turned up as the new Dean of Emmanuel Theological College in the C of E. Finally realised that despite the world and its third-rate dog being able to secure a Bishopric in the CiW, that boat had well and truly sailed, hit an iceberg and sunk for him. Ah well. According to the blurb he is a ‘Christ centred leader with a strong track record in bringing out the best in colleagues’….
With that profile surely he should have resurfaced down at Greggs???
Fr D… The appointment reads like every ecclesiastical press release ever written: “Christ-centred”, “brings out the best in colleagues”, “visionary leadership”. One almost expects the halo to arrive by courier.
The difficulty is that titles are easy; leadership is harder. St Padarn’s did not exist in a vacuum. Questions about discernment, pastoral care and the experience of candidates became very public and with increasing concern during Jeremy Duff’s tenure. Whether those criticisms were justified is a matter of debate, but they arose on his watch. Leadership doesn’t simply inherit success, it also inherits criticism.
My own impression of Jeremy Duff was not of a principal whose personality or convictions shaped the institution in any memorable way. Quite the opposite. For someone occupying one of the most influential posts in ministerial formation in Wales, he often seemed strangely absent from the wider conversation or physical presence. The office carried more profile than its occupant. His pseudo ‘assistant’ feel to the now elevated Dean perhaps perfected by his very defensive ‘I’m not diminished as a man’ position with his ‘assistant role’ with his +wife as an explanation or Perhaps that was his style. Perhaps it was deliberate. But when people remember an institution more vividly than the person leading it, one has to ask what sort of leadership was actually being exercised.
What is clear for me though, again comes another glowing testimonial, another prestigious appointment and another set of polished adjectives. The Church does have a remarkable talent for promoting narratives. Whether those narratives resemble the lived experience of those who passed through St Padarn’s is an altogether different question.
In a small institution, losing the Principal, the Dean for Initial Ministerial Training and the Dean for Discipleship, and of course the vanishing act of JD Lawrence (oops)!! within the same broad period is not background churn. It is a significant senior-level exodus and a ‘making hay while the sun still shines’ feel about it, Whether each departure was individually benign is beside the point, for an institution built around “formation in community”, that level of movement at the top invites serious questions about continuity, culture and leadership…. But true to form……maybe not!
Thankfully St Padarn's has had money invested in it in recent years and has also seen a vast expanse of staff. Previously the college operated on an absolute shoestring.
All that can be read into the above (Teilo) is what a further waste of C-in-W money, but I suppose the 'vast expanse of staff' goes some way to bringing Britain's unemployment figures down.
@follower Many thanks for your reflections - all very interesting. My first hand knowledge of JD is fairly limited, thankfully, but I have some good friends who worked with him in 2 previous appointments in theological institutions - one where he was a Chair of Trustees and one where he was a part-time lecturer. Their opinions all tend to line up as to what they thought - large presence, insensitive, opinionated, ill-informed bully. Someone who sadly had the potential to be a good academic, but ruined it through a combination of attitude, ego and self-obsession. He always gave them the impression he was totally disinterested in actually doing front line ministry (which was his main job in parishes in those days) and never spoke well of the people in the pews there. So I guess I’m a little surprised by how small his presence/influence was at St P’s from what you say, but it isn’t that inconsistent. It’s far easier to come into somewhere as a visitor/part timer, throw your weight around, then clear off, than it is to actually lead a place day after day.
Hopefully this means Jill Duff will now hand in her licence as an Associate Bishop of St Asaph. Her views are completely out of step with those of the Church in Wales and have no place in its episcopal leadership. Her opposition to LGBTQ+ inclusion, particularly her stance during the LLF process, should have been sufficient reason for +Gregory to remove her from the role. Why didn't he?
Sounds to me as though she's the only sensible one in the Diocese. If she's opposed to the queered Living in Lust and Filth drivel then she should be Archbishop.
Im deeply worried about where theological formation is heading in wales. It seems that all they care about is how to glitter God up enough to make Him attractive to people. The problem with this is its not that God hasnt been vagazled, but that the existence of God at all is implausible to most people. The CinW assume that the pulblic are as thick as our bishoos and as long as God is glittery and shiny, they will come to him. Whereas the churches that are seeing genuine growth are the ones well educated in theology and philosophy who are academically competent enough to sit down with the discerning public and discuss God, the universe, the meaning of time, empiracle evidence, and the human need.
I am now a part of a roman catholic church where they are accepting more and more people through confirmation each year. Both their sunday morning services are full with standing room only at the principal mass.
The priest.....a 75 year old man who gives the most straight forward, simple mass, and a homily read from a printed sheet. Yet the vast majority of new people in the church have been people aged 20-30. Yet, he is a man who knows how to nurture, isnt threatened by deep philosphical conversation, and can convey the gospel in a way that doesn't patronise or belittle.
I'm with you here Converted Exile. The idea that 'God' is an attractive thing to sell or, even worse, 'Jesus is my boyfriend' seems to be our only evangelistic outlook. The public just don't buy it when they look at Ukraine, Gaza ,Sudan. Being more theological and havign a more mystical approach to the divine in our world seems not to be in favour. Although I can't see where the growing churches with this approach are. The ones that are growing are often of the 'Jesus is my boyfriend' type albiet with no depth and longevity.
I've lost count already.
ReplyDeleteSpot the Problem??? They're all looking happy and clapping! What is there to be happy about!!!
ReplyDeleteA fat salary for doing bugger all, a non-contributory pension to collect when you've finished doing bugger all and unaudited discretionary petty cash to spend how you like until that day arrives.
DeleteWhat's not to like?
Caiaphas: "No tongues, John"
ReplyDeleteLess than nine years have elapsed but five of the six have left in disgrace as Fatboy Slim clings on by his finger nails.
ReplyDeleteNever never never trust (Church in Wales) bishops.
My fear is Lux et etc., that if the Llandudno 'joyous' talking shop gets the election of Bangor wrong (again), then its not the future of the existing bishops which need bother us .... but the desertion of more decent Diocese of Bangor parish priests to other diocese (and indeed out of Wales) which will be the downfall. Too many of them simply quit under Andy John. Even more if Manon James succeeds to the See. She's apparently not popular. Nor - for those with memories of Townsend's brown-nosing +John is the other local contender.
DeleteDon’t forget old Mystic Meg from Llangollen…
DeleteYou think some decent priests are left?😱😱
DeleteI can scarce believe it!
Y Parch
DeleteSome of us are prayerful, diligent, and preach the gospel with faithfulness
DeleteNot really good enough 'Y Parch'. Most church-attending congregants are 'prayerful' and follow the gospels 'with faithfulness'. What we expect of Parish Priests and those elevated to higher office is significantly more than that. Far, far more and not just sitting in clergy conferences, attending retreats and navel-gazing waiting for the Spirit of the Lord to descend as a dove to sort it all out. God, I am sure, would prefer action to repetitions of Prayers.
Deleteyou believe all I do is sit in conferences, attend retreats and navel gaze, and pronounce judgement without knowing me or my colleagues throughout the diocese.
DeleteLeadership and courage are what are most desperately needed.
DeleteBugger the Bishops.
Bewildered
Given the personal habits of so many of your colleagues it's a relief to see you didn't include Naval gazing, Y Parch.🤣
DeleteWhat's the reference to Mystic Meg of Llangollen in this context?
DeleteOutsider
Is this a case of "things were better in my day"?
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you tell us?
Delete@ Celt.
DeleteIn my case (above), the answer is yes. The not-so-distant days when there'd be decent congregations, when Vicars engaged in 'pastoral care', visitations of the sick, etc. There'd be vibrant Sunday Schools, Mothers' Unions, the priest would be seen in the local pub, Vicarages were 'open-door', churches would be the attractive place for Saturday weddings; infant Baptisms at the font were common place, crematoriums were there simply for that purpose ... not as more secular option of avoiding the local church and parish priests studied post graduate Theology or Divinity, not social services or nail-clipping, Churches across Wales Wales focussed on contributing to the world communion such as CMS, Mission to Seamen, Barnados, SPCK and not in wasteful funding on cosmetics, the employment of more and more non-back-office 'advisors' , administrators, chief Execs; IT and PR executives, Aga Ovens, cathedral pews, LGBTQ flags, offsite conferences in Rome and America, huge pay-offs to clergy threatening employment tribunal action against their diocese etc. More particularly, the days when Vicars could actually deliver a 10-12 minute sermon which might have some scriptual or Biblical meaning rather than a 'stand-up' waffle of banal nonsenses - some even verging on political - delivered today.
Yes. Things were better in my day. Churches were filled. Parishioners were happy. Clergy didn't stab each other in the back. I think 'my day' came to its end when the affects of Barry Morgan's style of leadership creeped in into the parishes of Wales and the priesthood itself (apart from the Wimmin Lobby and later the LGBTQ cabal) simply threw their towels in.
Ah, the good old days. It sounds idyllic! If only it could be like that now. You don't know how lucky you were.
ReplyDeleteSo it's the Dean for Bangor. What a surprise!
ReplyDeletePeriglor
Well it’s Manon… Good luck Bangor
ReplyDeleteFed Up
It is Manon. The End.
ReplyDeleteNo surprise there.
ReplyDeleteIt could have been so much worse.
ReplyDeleteI know that some posters are opposed to the ordained ministry of women. I do not share their view. I am, however, totally opposed to the preferment of incompetents and/or people who damage others. This appointment drives me to despair.
ReplyDeleteHaving dispatched one Bishop renowned for incompetence, mishandling of situations, and alleged to have bullied many, the electors have promptly replaced him with one of similar ilk. A Dean who promised much and delivered nothing, made an appalling situation even worse, by all accounts, and carries with her allegations of bullying from at least one previous role.
The people and good frontline clergy of the Diocese have been extremely badly served by the electors, and badly let down by the denomination. They deserved far better. I fear it is now the end for the Diocese of Bangor, not because the new Bishop is a woman, but because all signs point to her episcopacy being a case of more of the same.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, until it all ends.
Shan't waste my breath saying: 'let's see how it pans out'. I know the outcome. Total failure. Who to blame? ++Vann for (a) appointing her as Dean of Bangor post SRE debacle and (b) not accounting her for her failings whilst in post. That's me done with Bangor and the C-in-W.
DeleteSt Asaph regular
ReplyDeleteAnd there it is in a nutcase!
ReplyDeleteThe chocolate 🍫 teapot has been replaced with a chocolate teapotette.
Quelle bloody surprise🤦
The dash to oblivion increases speed.
And it’s not even April the first!!!
DeleteWhen i was a curate. I was at lunch with Manon as my IME officer and had to sit through her and another female colleague discuss the quality of male clergy bottoms in the diocese. Stuart Ash won the contest from what i remember.
ReplyDeleteAt a later date. She disclosed highly personal information about me to a family member. Information she gained from a professional capacity. She raised it with him believing he already knew and wanted a gossip about it. The latter was within the last 12 months.
The new bishop of bangor ladies and gentlemen.
CinW leaver.
Also endured this alongside other bullying tactics in St Padarn’s.
DeleteDisgruntledMinister
Can we have a picture of Stuart Ash's bottom so that we can judge for ourselves? It might be that Manon has very good taste! The thing is you yourself remember that Ash won the contest, so I suspect it's a judgement you agreed with. How funny.
DeleteBottomsUp
The Church in Wales has become so intoxicated by its own sense of importance that it appears genuinely to believe nobody can see through its games. It operates with the complacency of an institution convinced that accountability is for other people and that the wider public will simply accept whatever absurdity is presented as wisdom. Yet people can see perfectly well what is happening. They can see appointments that defy credibility, decisions that mock common sense, and a culture that too often appears more interested in protecting reputations than pursuing truth.
ReplyDeleteWhat is most astonishing is not the conduct itself but the apparent belief that nobody will notice. The Church behaves like a medieval court surrounded by loyal courtiers applauding every misjudgement while the rest of the world looks on in disbelief. It speaks endlessly of justice, integrity, and discernment, yet too often appears incapable of applying those principles to itself. Every perverse decision, every act of institutional self-preservation, and every display of breathtaking arrogance chips away at what little moral authority remains.
The real scandal is not that these things occur. The real scandal is that those responsible seem genuinely convinced that everyone else is too foolish to recognise them.
The little tryst’s on the sea front of Llandudno governing body between cherry and mannon, the side comments of things will be changing in a direction of a Welsh speaking female Bishop by ++ Gregory at the last GB etc etc makes the whole process a complete mockery……if ever there was a reason to believe in the day of reckoning……it is today, you will be held to account for what you have done to our church.
Are you all sure her name is Manon?
DeleteBy the sound of it, Manon would be nearer the mark.
Is she another lesbian too?
Apologies readers, autocorrect defeated me.
DeleteManon and Mamon were originally typed.
Exodus, no not a lesbian, quite a huntress by all accounts, regularly commented on here is her lascivious and inappropriate ways with the male ordinands under her care while at StPadarns..and of course the scandal surrounding the poor dumped ex husband Dave Parry……quite the choice….!!
DeleteQuite the slapper then?
DeleteIt's almost as though the days of Carl Cooper and randy Mandy never went away!
🤣
Mamon the man-eater.
Reminder: Anonymous comments intended for publication must include a pseudonym.
ReplyDeleteHave a look at the Church in Wales Facebook page, and the pictures after Manon s election. The whole electoral college is outside Holy Trinity Llandudno looking and applauding . But if you didn't know otherwise they are applauding empty space. There is nobody there. They are looking at nothing. And that probably sums it up. There is nothing there anymore. We are applauding God-knows-what. The pictures are both very funny and very sad. And more than anything shows the disconnect by now between the leadership and the rest of us. The pictures are quite haunting, a group of people clapping but at what and why?
ReplyDeleteA bunch of wet Circus seals 🦭
DeleteSomeone chuck them a fish over which they can squabble and elect next.
I see another problem in the AB photo challenge. It's surely AI generated. It suggests that a man-priest is actually cuddling a female priest!! Outrageous in these modern C-in-W times when such behaviour was to have been stamped out. Next you'll know is that they'll be blessing mixed (hetrosexual) marriages. The end is nigh.
ReplyDeletehttps://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/2017/07/more-of-same.html
DeleteWhat wonderful news that we have returned to equality for women amongst the Bishops. I am delighted that Rev Dr Manon has been appointed given her scholarly background and the desperate need to rid Bangor of its widely-reported issues. We need strong female leaders and academics amongst our Bishops in order to bring back the youth to our declining Church. Finally I see a way forward for our church - that is rid of its toxic masculinity and embraces the feminine future of the church.
ReplyDeleteTrue CinW Feminist
Oh dear. Here we go again. Seems from True CinW Feminist (above) comment that what a Bishop has within her knickers, or underpants, as the case might be, is all that matters. Then the other celebration of Manon James appointment as the Great Redeemer who will return the CinW to the Capel Fawr all-Welsh (but long dead) tradition.
DeleteAh well. Good luck to CinW Feminist in her championing that church pews and communion alter rails be packed with Lesbo 'wimmin' and toxic men can go suck eggs. Not sure if Christ might see it that way, He and his disciples were all Men and none, I believe, ardent Welsh language speakers.
Bye-bye CinW.. At least you saw 100+ years through before you self-imploded.
Are you even in the Bangor doicese?
DeleteIs that you Peggy, or is it Jenny or Joanna?
The toxic feminazis and their queered theology are the real problems and congregant numbers will just collapse further, but of course the RB will conceal the ongoing decline.
How did that go in St David’s with Joanna Penberthy? Now the Dean who’s run the Cathedral into the ground. How did it go with June Osborne in Llandaff? The truth is choosing candidates based on gender is totally wrong.
DeleteWhamab
Manon has been a senior part of the regime for some time now. And all ive seen is decline. Im not aware of her generating any substantial growth in any of the capacities she's worked in so far. Im not entirely sure what her ministry has contributed as of yet? So, perhaps it will all change now she's a bishop. Perhaps shes been saving it for this moment. Lets wait and see.
ReplyDeleteConverted exile
Converted exile, my concerns go much further than questions of growth or leadership. From my perspective, Manon is a deeply divisive figure. I do not see her as someone who has sought to bring people together across different traditions and viewpoints within the Church, in fact the opposite, only within the last 9 months did she appear in disciplinary proceedings accused of bullying a vulnerable ordinand who had to finish her final year away from the St Padarns as a result… these are not spurious accusations but fact that the likes of Vann (knowing full well) has sought to hide and gloss over
DeleteMy impression is that she represents a particular ideological outlook which many people feel excluded (by virtue of gender, class, tradition or nationality) by rather than included within. Whether fairly or unfairly, there are significant numbers of people who view her appointment with concern rather than enthusiasm, and I think it is a mistake to dismiss those concerns as irrelevant or reactionary.
Let’s not forget her self proclaimed hobby of a stand up comic where she stood in front of an audience in Rhyl comedy club and delivered her line, “I am a priest in the Church in Wales so let me begin by apologising for the paedophiles”, just a few years ago..as declared to the students of her college in yet another booze fuelled residential weekend, (which if anyone would care to submit a freedom of information request) would discover run into approximately £30,000 per weekend x 4 times per year….again self proclaiming that she reserves the best rooms with the best facilities and expenses for the bar for the staff as their ‘reward’,
This is one of the most worrying appointments in history which I am sure will show that the Bangor appointments previously made will have seemed positively divinely inspired.
I have also heard many very concerning things of the culture and operation of the training institution, some of which have involved the new Bishop, and I have some first hand experience of it, though not of her and I certainly did not train there. I have to be fair to her here and say that one person who is not the Principal does not have the influence to make or break the culture of such an institution, especially with so bullish a character as that institution’s Principal. But from what I hear, the two of them were ‘peas in a pod’ in certain ways, not least in their overbearing and sometimes bullying behaviour towards staff and students who fell foul of them. As things like whether your face fits and vindictiveness have been such damaging features of Bangor Diocese for quite a number of years now, that they’re very likely to continue is dreadful.
DeleteFor nigh on thirty years the prevailing attitude has been "We continue as we please" so why would anyone expect anything different now?
DeleteYou mentioned people feeling excluded..... I'd add to that.... political view. The trend is liberation theology based on Marxism....Any of us who don't agree with this teaching are therefore excluded. Students are taught this dangerous political view as standard then go on to preach it. Yet in the ever empty pews, people hold diverse views. Danny Jones.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, if Jesus himself had been appointed Bishop there would be some here who would still be able to find fault. Give her a chance.
ReplyDeleteOutsider.
Don't be absurd.
DeleteAny such criticism would be forthcoming from the hypocritical priests and high priests already in his house making mockery, changing money and preaching falsely, just as it was in his day.
He'd be spending time with the outcasts which today are the abandoned traditionalists and faithful adherents, not those practising the Living in Lust and Filth gueered trans drivel.
Bewildered
If only half the 'first hand' comments raised in only this low-audience website of CinW priests and congregants are true, then Manon James has had a full career of being given second-chances and her faux pas generously 'forgiven'. How many 'chances' should be overlooked or pardoned. Now that she has reached the Bench of Bishops, then not a single one more. First step out of line - and I predict there will be - ++Vann MUST boot her out. In ordinary employment she ought to be deemed to already be on 'final written warning'. A very disappointing outcome that the people of Bangor didn't deserve.
DeleteThat’s pretty much what I said when she was appointed Dean. I don’t necessarily think I was wrong - anyone coming into that situation deserved to be given a chance to prove themselves up to the task. But she has not done that as Dean, so I’m not inclined to think that way about her in an even more demanding role with even more issues to address.
DeleteThis was the last chance to save the See of Bangor. It was not taken. Some of the concerns raised are pretty common knowledge in CiW about the Bishop-Elect. Her treatment of students at SPI has been found by due process on at least one occasion to my knowledge as wrong. It looks like that might not have been an isolated case. I wonder if electors drilled down into her SPI employment record at the Electoral College?
DeleteWHAMAB
Also do the founding covenants which are attached to St Michael’s College now SPI allow for the boozey night time economy of that institution?
DeleteWhamab
I am afraid WHAMAB, that yes ++Vann as Bishop with responsibility for training Knew/knows full well of the employment record and troubles therein. It is an absolute disgrace and cover up that this has been allowed to happen. The very sad thing is that while Fr Duddleswell mentions the principe as a ‘factor’ those whom had oversight of ordinands there will know..duff in every sense was never there… too busy playing housewife while his +wife did her thang! The whole institution had take. Advantage of the process and if one were to look at the figures , “St Padarn’s receives over £3.3 million per year. With around 24 ordinands entering training annually, that equates to approximately £138,000 per ordinand before any adjustment for other activities.” One can see how badly managed under Manon’s watch this has been.
DeleteOne hears on the jungle drums and grapevines that the Dean of St. Davids has bid everyone farewell and adieu.
ReplyDeleteYes indeed, another one for the busted Deans’ club down at Gregg’s. They all wash up there sooner or later…SRE also, perchance??
DeleteHardly jungle drums: it's on the Cathedral's Facebook page. She's going to be Rector of Hawarden and Vicar of Broughton and Sealand.
DeleteHow come all C in W ‘rejects’ seem to land up in St Asaph? Gerwyn Capon. David Morris. And now the Dean of St David s. Is there a plan here?
DeleteEssentially, Fatboy Slim is so desperate to fill his vacancies he'll take any old dross.
DeleteBewildered
What have the poor people of Hawarden, Broughton and Sealand done to deserve Mamon landing in their midst?
DeleteFYI: https://nation.cymru/news/dean-to-leave-st-davids-weeks-after-publication-of-critical-report/
DeleteGot it! It must be the recycling diocese
ReplyDeleteHe already has, very sadly to the detriment of the good and faithful servants who suffer under his chosen henchmen.... misogyny, prejudice, over worked, under supported and not a clue which budget they are working to. Dismayed.
ReplyDeleteSo where, now, is my former place of worship - much loved in those days - left now with Manon James having deserted her promises to the cathedral congregants that she would sort out its problems; the fourth in quick succession to hand in the keys of the Deanery (with the exception of questionable gender, SRE all being women). Presumably in another 12-18 months of limbo even if decent applicants come forward prepared to take on this once vibrant cathedral. If Manon James can con the Bench that she's mustard for Bangor See, then no gumption required to imagine who or what might take her place as Dean of Bangor. She presumably will be the appointee. God forbid.
ReplyDeleteI well remember being pary of a ‘consultation’ to choose a then rural dean. There was a good discussion and some enthusiasm. We were told by the then archdeacon that all this would be fed back to the then bishop and acted upon. A day later in a conversation with a clergy spouse I was told that her husband had been asked to be the rural dean a week before. One thing I really hate is to have my intelligence insulted. If that s how you run things, fine, make the decision and present it as a done deal. But don’t pretend some collaboration. As I said before on this blog, once Manon Ceridwen s mitre was in the ring that is who it would be. Say that then and don't go through a costly cod process that feigns a consultation. Be the ‘dictatorship ‘ that you are. What has gone is integrity. I am more than willing to accept that the religious situation in Wales is really dire and that no one knows what to do. I listened to Manon on Bwrw Golwg on Sunday. Dear dear! The same platitudes that are by now totally meaningless. The situation is way way beyond her and anyone else for that matter. But a good starting place is honesty about it all. That will be painful beyond belief. Full of tears. But at least it will be honest. The Cathedral is a case in point. No one has told the truth. Archdeacons who know what went on. The whole bench of bishops. Manon herself. Dare be honest. As it stand, nobody believes you anyhow. So you have nothing to lose and all to gain. To you Manon I say it is no way to start your episcopal life by hiding the truth about the Cathedral . If you dont your ministry will be shadowed by it. Stop the deceptions please. About the cathedral and the whole religious world of Wales.
ReplyDeleteItll be a consolation prize for Townend surely?
ReplyDeleteConverted exile
I think ++Cambrensis' charade about delaying the electoral college has been shown to have been a complete farce with Manon's appointment as Dean being upended by her election as Bishop. They should've trusted the process and replaced Andy John in the time honoured manner. It just looks to me like they've trodden water needlessly. Wonder how the Cathedral feels - really feels - to have had another Dean go after only eight months.
ReplyDeleteWHAMAB
I think I can answer that one WHAMAB even though many within the Cathedral and Clergy of the wider diocese know who 'Ad Clerum' is. The consensus of most in Bangor is disbelief and despondent anger that the process allowed such a charade and that ++Vann nodded it though. There's a very belated regret by many that +David Morris was thrown to the dogs and so badly 'denied' by the same Bench of Bishops and among those outer-rural clergy I know, a genuine expectation - akin to the ousting of Keir Starmer - that many more resignations and transfers to other diocese will follow once Manon James is installed and fails the first six-months test. Her agenda and leadership 'style' isn't everyone's cup of tea. Unlike the majority of the congregants/members/donors most of her clergy know her 'CV'. So too does ++Cherry Vann.
DeleteConverted Exile seems to suggest that Robert Townsend might be ready to step into the mire. I doubt it very much.
You make a very good point, Ad Clerum, and one I never thought I would support - amazing how things change in response to the bizarre world of church machinations. I have huge reservations about Bishop Morris’ capacity for ethical and healthy leadership - not least because of his alleged part in the SRE era and lack of transparency and accountability in the aftermath. But in the light of what has happened since, I can’t help but wonder if he might have been a better choice as best of a pretty grim bunch of likely contenders.
DeleteYou think the Deanery won’t interest the Archdeacon - again not the worst thing given that he was in post when everything imploded. How about Mystic Meg of Llangollen? I really hope it doesn’t, but who else is there, especially with the prospect of who the new Bishop is?
I disagree. I don’t think Manon was at the reported £50k do at the London Yacht Club in a cassock and raising a ‘free’ glass of wine, whereas Morris was!
DeleteRule Britannia
The saddest thing of all is that all of this speculation is a waste of time, energy and money?
DeleteWhy?
Because the Cult in Wales is a complete and utter irrelevance to our society and less than 10,000 Sunday worshippers could give a flying fig. Biscuit.
As is your own post if what you say it true Cymru’r Groes. A waste of time commenting on an irrelevance. There are some wonderful Christians still left in the Church in Wales, even if society doesn’t notice them God does.
DeleteWHAMAB
I know far more wonderful people outside the Cult in Wales.
DeleteWhat God?
Your invisible imaginary omnipotent friend who needs such cretins on the bench to represent him, interpret his wishes and inform the rest of us?
Right, right.
Bewildered
Amazed you even spend one second of your life commenting if it means so little to you. Perhaps you are just a troll is the explanation. Why else would you spend time on this blog if that’s how you feel?
DeleteWHAMAB
We wanted Christ but we got the church. The Church and those in it are fable. We need to keep our eyes on Christ.
ReplyDelete*Fallible
ReplyDeleteFeeble!
DeleteLet’s just face it shall we. The Church in Wales is dead, it’s beyond help at this point. It’s had countless opportunities to redeem itself and to change for the better, and even more opportunities to learn from its mistakes and errors.
ReplyDeleteLet it die with some remaining dignity. You’d put a dog down for less.
Fed Up
Agreed 💯%
DeleteAs long as the "Cathedrals" become museums and the Churches become Community Centres, Libraries, Cafés, Pubs, ice skating rinks, Climbing Centres etc...
Anything but Mosques.
Are you all atheists or do you just hate the Church in Wales? I am leaving this blog because you are negative old farts.
ReplyDeleteI abhor what the Cult in Wales has become and I despise those responsible for it.
DeleteGood riddance Celt.
DeleteYour impertinence and presumption will not be missed, you have no idea of my age nor that of any other contributor.
The Church in Wales walked away from God and me, with a Harvey Smith gesture, thirty years Exodus ago.
DeleteNeither of us have missed it one bit.
It is now a house built on sand and I hope I live long enough to see it collapse on itself.
The church in wales hates me. So i shake the sand off my feet. I am now in Rome and have never been happier.
ReplyDeleteConverted exile
There is a striking lack of Christian charity in many comments on this feed and yet many of you present yourselves as committed Christians. Many comments include:
ReplyDeletemockery, ridicule, name-calling, gossip, speculation about private lives, crude sexual insults, delight in humiliation. Examples include: "slapper" "fatboy slim" "chocolate teapotette" "wet circus seals" comments about clergy's bodies, speculation about sexual orientation, insults aimed at women clergy. Even if some criticisms have factual foundations, the way this is expressed here frequently moves from criticism into contempt. For me, as a Christ-follower, this sits uneasily alongside New Testament teaching about the basics of Christ-like speech, i.e. avoiding slander, gossip, coarse talk, and judging others' motives.
Outsider
As for coarse talk, is it safe to assume you took that up with former Bishop of Monmouth Richard Pain, following the reports of foul language and heavy drinking among the senior clergy of the diocese?
DeleteThen no doubt you took the former dud Capon in the Llandaff Deanery to task over avoiding slander and judging other's motives when he was writing his poison pen letters to Parishioners and referring to them as "subversives" from his pulpit?
How about "I am the accuser" Caiaphas Juno and her false allegations directed towards elderly Parishioners?
Former Bishop of St. Davids Carl Cooper and his lies trying to cover up his adultery with his Chaplainette randy Mandy?
Or former Bishop of St. Davids Joanna and her rabid "Never never never trust a Tory" ranting?
Or the convicted paedophiles, former Bishop of Swansea (about which lots of senior clergy knew but did nothing) and former Canon Nigel Cahill?
Is that the kind of speculation, rumour, gossip, mockery and crude behaviour you mean?
Bewildered
Oh, and just to be clear, listing the alleged failings of others doesn't justify mockery, personal abuse, crude nicknames, speculation about people's private lives or delight in humiliating them. If anything, it reinforces the need for everyone - including those commenting here - to examine their own conduct. It's perfectly possible to criticise wrongdoing firmly and truthfully without abandoning charity. Those two things are not in conflict. well, not in my world, but perhaps in yours?
DeleteOutsider
No one suggested that clergy should be immune from criticism, or that wrongdoing should be ignored. If bishops, clergy or anyone else have behaved abusively, dishonestly or criminally, they should be held to account. The question raised was different: does our own manner of speaking reflect the standards we claim to uphold? Pointing to other people's sins doesn't justify mockery, insults, or contempt in our own speech. In fact, if those examples demonstrate anything, they demonstrate why Christians should be especially careful not to perpetuate the same culture of abusive discourse. It's possible to speak truthfully, even forcefully, without resorting to ridicule or personal abuse. That was the point being made, and your reply doesn't really engage with it. Lazy.
DeleteOutsider
Who claimed to be a Christian?
DeleteBewildered
Has the C in E been any better?
ReplyDeleteNo, it has not.
DeleteAre you still here?
Your resignation from this blog was short-lived!
Bewildered
I fully agree with Outsider. An honest, critical debate about the future of the Welsh province is much needed, but why can't it be on the level of the debates we find on sites like Thinking Anglicans, or Surviving Church? If only there was a site like that with a Welsh focus. More substance, less ad hominem/feminam venom.
ReplyDeleteHowitzer
As they have so ably demonstrated over the last three decades at least, the plankers on the Welsh bench and the fools in the RB aren't interested in honest or critical debate.
DeleteWhy and how do you think Ancient Briton and the wonderful LlandaffChester Chronicles ever came into existence?
My first comment on this blog - I completely agree with Outsider and Howitzer. Perhaps the most disturbing feature of this blog is the anonymity. Christians live in the Light. Commentators should give their true names.and be open to public scrutiny of their views.
ReplyDeleteJulian Pitt
I disagree Julian. When I write, I write nothing that I would be unable to defend, should it cross my Bishop’s desk and I be called to account for it - yes, even the more direct of my critiques and the satire I sometimes use to make my point and emphasise the utterly ridiculous level to which some things have sunk. But I write under a pseudonym because some church authorities mistakenly view vindictiveness, defensiveness and oppression of those who oppose them as the same thing as calling to account in a spirit of justice (Christian or secular). So I do not want to make it easy for them to silence me or act in retribution. If we’re going to use proof texting to make the point (something I really try not to do) I recall reading ‘retribution is mine, says the Lord’ in Scripture.
DeleteI do still call myself a Christian, albeit a very imperfect one, so it goes without saying that I write in full knowledge and acceptance that one day (and at my age that day becomes ever closer) I will have to give account for my conduct before the one true judge, as will we all.
Of course, if you'd been around during the reign of Darth --Insidious, Satan's imp Byzantine Barry, the grand Mufti of all the faiths and his coven headed up by Peggy the Pilate, Julian come lately, you'd know why!
DeleteFr Duddleswell Is obviously better acquainted with the modus operandi of those engaging in the dark arts.
Julian, Outsider, and Howitzer.....i strongly encourage you to set up such a blog. Let's see if people are drawn to it. Let's see the immesurable good it will do. I fear the church in wales has bread the poison you soeak against.
ReplyDeleteConverted exile
Well said Sir/Madam.
Delete100%
Bewildered
If the jokers who run and lead the Church in Wales knowingly or unknowingly act as clowns and comedians [Bishop-elect Manon James openly yearning to become a stand-up comic), then it seems only courteous that those of us in the audience give them the appreciation of applause by way of laughing. And if, as I have over many years, been able to forensically nail down some of the true authors of pseudonyms used on this blogsite, then you'll see that many of them are clergy (retired and serving) who combine with the rest of us in mocking their colleagues. Perhaps, unlike the rest of us, they contribute their venom out of the frustrations of not having their voices heard by their own Bishops.
ReplyDeleteBut, as said, if you set yourself up to be court jesters, then expect rotten eggs and soggy tomatoes to be thrown your way. Its a form of appreciation.
Keep it up AB.
A Observer, there is an old truth that power fears not anger nearly as much as laughter. Anger can be dismissed as malice, laughter is much harder to silence because it usually exposes a contradiction everyone else has already noticed. Institutions are rarely damaged by satirists. More often they are damaged by leaders who provide satirists with an endless supply of material and then wonder why the audience keeps returning for the next performance….although judging by the (medical term) Class 3 Bishop bumbling his entitled way through the recent ordinations up here in North Wales you wouldn’t believe it wasn’t intentional………..A truly cring worthy performance for us in the mandated throng without the ability or option to hide the shame in our ‘so called’ entitled, sorry enlighten leaders ineptitude.
DeleteMuch as I said St Asaph, except expressed with more eloquence and insight into the psychology of humour. And this, perhaps, is why Ancient Britain has become the welcome platform it is ... to act as pressure valve for venting off. Priests read it - indeed you could well be one of them - so why on earth don't the senior clerics hold the pages before the mirror and then realise what absolute berks they are.
DeleteYears ago, Harry Wallop, the Daily Telegraph's Consumer Affairs correspondent listed 150 professions, ranking each by their level of humour. Amazingly, Undertakers came within the top three and clergy ... third bottom of the list as the least likely to enjoy a laugh. Says a lot really. Because they don't understand what humour is, they fail to realise that they are the butt of it.
DeleteThat hasn't always been the case.
DeleteI could name several outstanding clergy from years gone by whose humour was second to none and very often directed at themselves.
The acid test occurred when others directed humour at their clergy and the clergy were heard laughing the loudest.!
I wasn't certain I still had it and it took me a while to locate it in the filing system.
DeleteSt. Bride's
3 The Green
Laandaff
CARDIFF
The Reverend Canon Harold Rew
Commissary to the Lord Bishop of Central Tanganyika
Following the corrupt followings of the Apostles, our Holy Mother, the Church in Wales, via her disowned sister - the unhily Church of Rome - (commonly called "auntie") doth permit her weaker br,ethren for the strengthening of Faith, (which oft grows dim for the want of a "Rag") the aid of relics (described in Canon Law as: "a part of a body or other object RELIGIOUSLY cherished from its having belonged to some Saint") PROVIDING that there is not paid to the alleged Relic "Divine Adoration", but just "worship" (see Marriage office).
BUT, Canon Law of both our Holy Mother and "Auntie" stipulates that ALL RELICS must be "lawfully gotten", NOT PURLOINED: and, Moreover the said Relic must beat the IMPRIMATUR of one competent to attest to the authenticity and genuine eds of the Relic.
(Cont'd)
Page 1
Permission is therefore given by this document under seal for the Venerable and Ancient Foundation of St. Michael - and All Angels??? - Llandaff, to RETAIN and have in use, for the SOLE PURPOSE of veneration of a Holy Man, who, for his constancy in hearing the Holy Office of Evensong mutilated DAILY for the period of a whole month, (a penance no Confessor would EVER impose upon the worst of sinners!), has been robbed and stripped of his lawful clothing, I.E., ONE BIRETTA NOIR AVEC PURPLE POMPOM, (the very sign of one "having authority") once the PERSONAL property of the aforesaid Holy Man: PERSONALLY worn by him: and TEMPORARILY laid up in the Cathedral Church of S.S. Peter & Paul, Llandaff.
DeleteTogether with the permission hereby given, the aforesaid College of ALL ANGELS? is also granted the RIGHTS AND INDULGENCES which are, by CANON LAW, attached to all AUTHENTIC Relics: I e., "MAY YOU ALL FAIL YOUR G.O.E.".
This indulgence is for 1000 days and can only be shortened by the "redemption" of the aforesaid Relic.
NIHIL OBSTAT: IMPRMATU:
+Haroldus Canonicus Llandavensis
VIC. GEN TANG:
(ii - ix- MCMLX)
(Cont'd)
Page 2
"YOUTH'S ODE TO WHO?"
Deleteor
The rape of the Pompom
(A Rewful Tale)
Adown the glade,
Where the Cathedral slumbered in the old trees' shade,
Guess who,
was busy with the tourist trade?
Then suddenly, an anguished cry rang out -
"'Tis fled"
It said.
"I dread
that it
may sit
on some unhallowed head-
My little hat, for which I was
so long an ardent seeker;
My purple trophy from the wilds
of central Tanganyika."
Then tolled the bells in solemn tone:
"Thus fares Pride" said the bells of St. Bride.
"The reward of all spikes" said the bells of St. Mike's.
"No more ceremonial orgies" said the bells of St. George's.
Then they laughed freely- all the bells of Super Ely.
MORAL.
It is always much better
To keep a padlock on one's second best Biretta.
Or better still, don't wear one at all. Remember how it befell Sion ap Rhys.
DeleteThe issue under discussion is the sense of humour (or more typically the lack thereof) of clergy.
DeleteHarold Rew was a short rotund jocular character who was more camp than a row of tents at a scout jamboree and, as demonstrated above, was possessed of a fine sense of the absurd.
He was well liked and certainly nothing like that absurd creature SRE.
I recall his response to being asked about the prospect of female ordination - he didn't understand what all the fuss was about since the Church had been ordaining "old women" for centuries.
I am suprised those who dont like this blog are so vocal on it. Something draws them here and something threatens them. I was informed about 'thinking anglicans' over a decade ago. I contributed a little bit and read stuff, but after a while, i realised it was nit my cup of tea. Ive never been on it since and didnt know it still existed until mentioned above. But the effort that has gone into shutting down the llandaffchester chronicles and the attempts to subvert this blog. Is it because there is truth the criticism. Granted not always put in the flowery language those who think christianity is all about being fluffy with each other. I wonder how many people tried to get John the Baptist shut down, or felt he should have been more cosy with his rhetoric. At the end of the day, evil does not like a mirror being held up to its face.
ReplyDeleteConverted exile
There was an excellent chapter published a few years back in a book about psychology in ministry by Fraser Watts that was about the toxicity of expected niceness in churches, especially the projections onto clergy. Well worth a read if your starting point is all Christians should just be nice to each other all the time.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteOh here we go, another rat leaving a useless ship….bye bye duff duff oh poor Emanuel college..
ReplyDeleteI see old ‘by name and by nature’ from St Paddywhack’s has now turned up as the new Dean of Emmanuel Theological College in the C of E. Finally realised that despite the world and its third-rate dog being able to secure a Bishopric in the CiW, that boat had well and truly sailed, hit an iceberg and sunk for him. Ah well. According to the blurb he is a ‘Christ centred leader with a strong track record in bringing out the best in colleagues’….
ReplyDeleteWith that profile surely he should have resurfaced down at Greggs???
Fr D… The appointment reads like every ecclesiastical press release ever written: “Christ-centred”, “brings out the best in colleagues”, “visionary leadership”. One almost expects the halo to arrive by courier.
DeleteThe difficulty is that titles are easy; leadership is harder. St Padarn’s did not exist in a vacuum. Questions about discernment, pastoral care and the experience of candidates became very public and with increasing concern during Jeremy Duff’s tenure. Whether those criticisms were justified is a matter of debate, but they arose on his watch. Leadership doesn’t simply inherit success, it also inherits criticism.
My own impression of Jeremy Duff was not of a principal whose personality or convictions shaped the institution in any memorable way. Quite the opposite. For someone occupying one of the most influential posts in ministerial formation in Wales, he often seemed strangely absent from the wider conversation or physical presence. The office carried more profile than its occupant. His pseudo ‘assistant’ feel to the now elevated Dean perhaps perfected by his very defensive ‘I’m not diminished as a man’ position with his ‘assistant role’ with his +wife as an explanation or Perhaps that was his style. Perhaps it was deliberate. But when people remember an institution more vividly than the person leading it, one has to ask what sort of leadership was actually being exercised.
What is clear for me though, again comes another glowing testimonial, another prestigious appointment and another set of polished adjectives. The Church does have a remarkable talent for promoting narratives. Whether those narratives resemble the lived experience of those who passed through St Padarn’s is an altogether different question.
In a small institution, losing the Principal, the Dean for Initial Ministerial Training and the Dean for Discipleship, and of course the vanishing act of JD Lawrence (oops)!! within the same broad period is not background churn. It is a significant senior-level exodus and a ‘making hay while the sun still shines’ feel about it, Whether each departure was individually benign is beside the point, for an institution built around “formation in community”, that level of movement at the top invites serious questions about continuity, culture and leadership…. But true to form……maybe not!
Thankfully St Padarn's has had money invested in it in recent years and has also seen a vast expanse of staff. Previously the college operated on an absolute shoestring.
DeleteTeilo
All that can be read into the above (Teilo) is what a further waste of C-in-W money, but I suppose the 'vast expanse of staff' goes some way to bringing Britain's unemployment figures down.
Delete@follower Many thanks for your reflections - all very interesting. My first hand knowledge of JD is fairly limited, thankfully, but I have some good friends who worked with him in 2 previous appointments in theological institutions - one where he was a Chair of Trustees and one where he was a part-time lecturer. Their opinions all tend to line up as to what they thought - large presence, insensitive, opinionated, ill-informed bully. Someone who sadly had the potential to be a good academic, but ruined it through a combination of attitude, ego and self-obsession. He always gave them the impression he was totally disinterested in actually doing front line ministry (which was his main job in parishes in those days) and never spoke well of the people in the pews there. So I guess I’m a little surprised by how small his presence/influence was at St P’s from what you say, but it isn’t that inconsistent. It’s far easier to come into somewhere as a visitor/part timer, throw your weight around, then clear off, than it is to actually lead a place day after day.
DeleteHopefully this means Jill Duff will now hand in her licence as an Associate Bishop of St Asaph. Her views are completely out of step with those of the Church in Wales and have no place in its episcopal leadership. Her opposition to LGBTQ+ inclusion, particularly her stance during the LLF process, should have been sufficient reason for +Gregory to remove her from the role. Why didn't he?
DeleteOutsider
Sounds to me as though she's the only sensible one in the Diocese.
DeleteIf she's opposed to the queered Living in Lust and Filth drivel then she should be Archbishop.
Im deeply worried about where theological formation is heading in wales. It seems that all they care about is how to glitter God up enough to make Him attractive to people. The problem with this is its not that God hasnt been vagazled, but that the existence of God at all is implausible to most people. The CinW assume that the pulblic are as thick as our bishoos and as long as God is glittery and shiny, they will come to him. Whereas the churches that are seeing genuine growth are the ones well educated in theology and philosophy who are academically competent enough to sit down with the discerning public and discuss God, the universe, the meaning of time, empiracle evidence, and the human need.
ReplyDeleteI am now a part of a roman catholic church where they are accepting more and more people through confirmation each year. Both their sunday morning services are full with standing room only at the principal mass.
The priest.....a 75 year old man who gives the most straight forward, simple mass, and a homily read from a printed sheet. Yet the vast majority of new people in the church have been people aged 20-30. Yet, he is a man who knows how to nurture, isnt threatened by deep philosphical conversation, and can convey the gospel in a way that doesn't patronise or belittle.
Converted exile
I'm with you here Converted Exile. The idea that 'God' is an attractive thing to sell or, even worse, 'Jesus is my boyfriend' seems to be our only evangelistic outlook. The public just don't buy it when they look at Ukraine, Gaza ,Sudan. Being more theological and havign a more mystical approach to the divine in our world seems not to be in favour. Although I can't see where the growing churches with this approach are. The ones that are growing are often of the 'Jesus is my boyfriend' type albiet with no depth and longevity.
ReplyDelete