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| Governing Body voting Source: Church in Wales |
The Church in Wales goes green is the main message to come out of the meeting of the Governing Body (GB) earlier this month.
Attendance may be in crisis but was not mentioned, apart from a brief reference to decline in one of the reports. That is despite the GB's guiding notes which state:
"Every year, a report on the current membership and finance statistics of the Church in Wales is presented to the meeting. This covers key information such as: church attendance, the level of financial giving towards the work of the church, details of what parishes are spending their money on."
Session Three was about 'Priorities, Growth and Resilience'. One of the items covered in discussion groups was "What stops us from growing?"
The Church in Wales, like the Church of England, The Episcopal Church in the US and others have become self-centred rather than God centred, using the name of Jesus as a passport to earthly desires. - Jesus loves me, therefore I do as I please.
The secularisation of the Church in Wales was made obvious by the archbishop of Wales when he commented on the recently announced 'historic appointments of Canons at Bangor Cathedral'.
He said, "It is a real joy to be able to announce the appointment of eight new Canons to the Cathedral, five Honorary Canons and three Foundation Canons. .... Together they bring with them an enormous breadth of skills and experience to their new roles, enabling the Cathedral’s common life and witness to be a place where all can come and experience faith, hope and love. Each of these new Canons has been invited in recognition of the significant contribution they have made, and continue to make, within their field of expertise, and I invite you to join with me in praying for them as they take up their new positions and responsibilities."
The Canon Preacher's experience of the Anglican Church is short. He was ordained Deacon in 2021 after becoming an Anglican in 2020 but more importantly for the archbishop he becomes the "first gay, black Canon to serve in a Church in Wales Cathedral, a pioneering moment that highlights its commitment to diversity and inclusivity."
Just the sort of experience the Church Wales has come to value above all else. But there is more.
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| 'Glastonbury priest' Sourcee: CinW |
She should receive a good welcome from the Peace Mala while the Church in Wales struggles with its identity.
As the decline of the Church continues more senior executives are hired. The latest is a Director of Mission and Strategy on a salary of up to £70,000 p.a.
On the plus side, perhaps the archbishop of Wales feels better able to cope with his workload having sanctioned all these appointments.
Last year he felt the need for someone to share the leadership of his Bangor diocese with while serving as Archbishop of Wales as if that were an onerous task. He appointed an assistant bishop who has since been appointed bishop of Llandaff with no replacement assistant bishop. Perhaps he discovered that he is not that busy after all being responsible for the souls of less than 1% of the population of Wales.
What about the souls of Anglicans in Wales? Pew sitters have been led astray by their bishops while others have simply been abandoned in the shift to secularism.
A timely reminder of the dire situation Anglicans in the Church in Wales find themselves comes from Bishop Stuart Bell a former Church in Wales priest who was ordained as an Assistant Bishop in The Anglican Convocation in Europe in March after serving in the Church in Wales for 51 years.
In an interview with Dr Tony Rucinski of Coalition for Marriage (C4M), Bishop Bell said the Church in Wales’ 2021 decision to bless same-sex partnerships was "hugely significant". He told Dr Rucinski that "substantial" numbers have left the Church in Wales, following its decision to turn its back on the Bible and go with contemporary culture.
He rebuffed claims the Church’s move was compassionate, saying: "Justice and compassion are not rootless, they are rooted within truth and they are rooted within Christ and they are rooted within an authority that is completely unchanging."
The Bishop warned that we are being seriously misled by people whose hearts are set on "anarchy and nihilism". That voice is growing stronger by the day and is being promoted at government level and by the media, he said.
He urged Christians and traditional marriage supporters to be absolutely resolute in the face of LGBT activists’ attempts to push the country into a state of "total gender confusion and sexual confusion".
Full details of the Christian Institute interview can be found here.
The response of the Church in Wales was: Clergy told to keep breakaway bishop at arm’s length. "No ministers affiliated with the Anglican Convocation in Europe should exercise ministry or leadership in a Church in Wales context, unless the explicit written permission of the appropriate Church in Wales diocesan bishop has been given."
That came as little surprise to the many Anglicans abandoned by the handful of heretic bishops in the Church in Wales for keeping the faith as received in common with millions of Anglicans around the world.
This is the legacy handed on by a former bishop of Bangor, later archbishop, Barry Morgan who decreed after the retirement of Bishop David Thomas that there would be further alternative Episcopal oversight 'over his dead body'.
Now in comfortable retirement Morgan's legacy lives on. He continues to meddle in Church affairs showing no shame for leaving so many faithful Anglicans who had been in his care in a spiritual desert, a situation perpetuated by the bench of bishops to this day to their utter shame.
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?
This was my final Governing Body meeting as a co-opted under 30 lay member as my 3 year term is up. I won’t be returning as I’ve been based in England for the last 2 years, but I doubt they’d have had me back anyway!
ReplyDeleteAt the meeting, I spoke about that question of what stops growth (https://youtu.be/M5ljYatWfOY?si=NIBqoeWxRB7XJlRg at 22:24). I likened much (by no means all) of the Church in Wales to the people of Athens in the book of Acts, who had built an altar “to an unknown god”. In the same debate, another member then advocated for cutting bits out of the Bible and removing Biblical language from liturgy in the name of inclusivity. She received a round of applause.
I also challenged the bishops for their hypocrisy in promoting unity in the Church through their ecumenical relations item, when they’ve asked clergy not to associate with the Anglican Convocation in Europe (https://youtu.be/NjaZ4IbwOng?si=mLDRsgSgXr7IgQRp at 49:51). I was sent a message of thanks from a vicar in Wales for saying what needed to be said, but what he and others could not.
At Governing Body, heretics speak freely and are applauded while there are faithful Christians who fear the consequences of speaking out.
Jon Sadler
Well done Jon and thank you for having the courage to speak out.
DeleteUnfortunately, I could have told in advance that you'd be wasting your time and the stony silence after you spoke served to confirm that you were casting pearls before swine.
You will be far better off out of the swamp of filth that is now the cult in Wales.
God speed and good luck.
Glad to see the back of this arrogant young man. There was an audible groan from nearly all at GB whenever he rose to share his angry vective - which was often. It bothered me to think my sunday offering was being spent on his hotel and travel fees. Go and learn some himility, young man, and get your hands dirty helping the poor an marginalised.
DeleteBangor-I
Is that you, Andy? Or perhaps Naomi? It's easy to criticise while hiding behind a veil of anonymity.
DeleteJon Sadler
How amusing Bangor-I(diot).
DeleteThere's nothing audible on the soundtrack.
"Go and learn some himility"?
"an marginalised"?
🤣🤣🤣🤣
When you've removed the log from your own eye, why don't you get out of the Penthouse suite in Callaghan Square and instead of eating cake, get onto the streets of Cardiff and feed the homeless hungry instead of drinking free sherry with slippery Dick in the Llandaff Lady Chapel.
Or if you're really in Bangor, tell us all about what's happened to the fixtures and fittings missing from St. Davids Church.
Truly, you holier than thou cretins are utterly nauseating.
Not so much a criticism as an observation. It seemed to me that Jon never had anything loving to say to GB. His contributions were always anger filled, and oh so judgemental, of the majority in the room. Jon was nevertheless listened to graciously and I can’t think of any occasion when anybody was publicly rude to him despite his hurling theological insults at those gathered . Rude and often tedious.
DeleteBangor-I
Your assertions about Jon's demeanour and behaviour are contradicted by the published video recordings.
DeleteSo much for bearing false witness against your neighbour.
If the plonkers on the bench and Melody are representative of the "majority in the room", it's little wonder the 99.9% majority of the rest of Wales want nothing to do with such a bunch of pathetic drippy saps.
As I say, just an observation. I don’t wish Jon any Ill at all, but I will not miss his contributions at GB - they were embarrassing and very ill judged and often rude. All the best in your ministry over the border Jon.
DeleteBangor-I
I did not find Jon's GB contributions embarrassing, ill judged or rude. He said what needed to be said about the direction of the Church in Wales. His message is echoed in this letter in the Church Times:
Delete"From Dr Nicholas Mason
Sir, — The recent address by the Archbishop of Wales to the Governing Body of the Church in Wales (News, 8 September) highlights many of the reasons for the continuing decline of the Anglican Church in Britain and, in particular, here in Wales. The Archbishop’s address warrants a comprehensive response, but three key issues stand out:
1. The use of incomprehensible managerial language that masks the adoption of worldly standards. The Archbishop talks of introducing healthy competition, and increasingly, among episcopal statements, the health of the Church appears to be judged not by how faithfully it follows Christ, but by its success in numerical growth.
2. A preoccupation with peripheral matters, however important, in the desire to be taken seriously by the world, but at the cost of teaching the orthodox faith of the Church and deepening its life of prayer.
3. The cognitive dissonance that characterises so many episcopal statements. The claim by the Archbishop that the work of the Church in Wales is well regarded, understood, and appreciated stands in stark contrast to the experience of those of us who live and work in the secular world, where the Church is seen as wholly irrelevant and our Christian faith — or, rather, an ignorant interpretation of what our society thinks that it means to be Christian — is subjected to increasingly hostile ridicule.
Nowhere, however, is this cognitive dissonance more apparent than to claim that there is a commitment to listening and learning, when those of us who have sought to raise serious concerns about the conduct of affairs in the Church in Wales have met with denial, obfuscation, and a blunt refusal to engage in discussion.
Until our bishops place the teaching of the orthodox Christian faith at the heart of all that they do, and until they recognise that the root of church decline lies with them and their insistence on remaking the Church in the image of the world, the Anglican Church will continue to wither on the vine."
I agree with everything in his letter to the Church Times, but is this the same Nick Mason that was writing letters to the Llandaff Cathedral chapter in support of the thieving Gerwhine Capon?
DeleteBangor-I, if you found what I said rude and hurtful, I think if you read your Bible, you’d be very upset by some of what was said by Paul, many of the prophets, and indeed by Jesus.
DeleteJon Sadler
Jon, you’re not Paul - and even he mellowed with age. I pray the same will be so for you. Looking forward to meeting you in your fifties when you have mellowed and theologically broadened. Either that or you’ll be carrying Bishop Bell’s crozier around eccentric congregations in Pembrokeshire.
DeleteKeep up with the guitar - your greatest asset.
Bangor-I
How will we arrange this meet up in 20+ years time when you continue to hide your identity? So brave, so stunning.
DeleteJon Sadler
Jon, I wish you no ill. I found your contributions at GB to be deeply offensive to the majority of those attending, myself included. And here you are again having a go at a younger member of GB who spoke with eloquence and insight. This then results in others on this group commenting on her appearance and ridiculing her and I don't see you disagreeing with them or taking them to task, in fact, you are happy to add to the bullying.
DeleteWhether you know my identity or not is quite irrelevant - the better question is whether you know yours?
Bangor-I
Is your "I" taken from the 2SLGBTQIA+- alphabet soup nonsense perchance?
DeleteI can't remember what the I is supposed to even represent.
The vast majority of those attending GB are Stonewall acolytes or their familiars and offensive to the vast majority of the tens of thousands of faithful orthodox Anglicans who have been alienated by the now all-but-irrelevant cult in Wales, which will be extinct in 10 years or so never mind 20+.
Pearls and swine Jon.
Once again, where's the missing fixtures and fittings from from the church in Bangor?
Had the cult in Wales signed up with Stonewall to be a 2SLGBTQIA "inclusive employer" yet, with a bronze, silver or gold certificate framed and hung up on the wall in the Callaghan Square penthouse suite?
DeleteBangor-I - you seem to think that the Church in Wales actually care about the poor and marginalised. Perhaps you should see what's happening to this charity which before this week I was unaware of, being hounded and harassed by the loving, inclusive, Church in Wales: https://theparishtrust.org.uk/2023/10/press-release-christian-charity-which-helped-9000-people-during-covid-lockdown-could-be-evicted-by-the-church-in-wales/
DeleteIt may be worth AB highlighting this in an upcoming feature piece on this blog, further demonstrating the utter hypocrisy that pervades the province.
Am I being naive, or is this the case of a Church in Wales priest setting up his own charity, then becoming CEO of said charity, resigning from ministry but then hoping he can take a church building with him once he had left? Not sure I would like to be the new vicar of Bedwas if that is the case. As I say, I might be wrong but you do wonder why the Church in Wales has had a change of mind. The situation is possibly more complicated than presented in the press release. Here's hoping a compromise might be reached.
DeleteRandolph
It certainly seems complicated, Randolph. But the press release says that the charity was set up with him "and a Board of Trustees which was made up of representatives of the local parishes" I assume that the trustees are still representatives of the parishes, in which case it is not him per se that was asking for the building, but the parishioners. The priest isn't listed as a trustee on the charities commission website, which I assume is because he now has a paid position. There is a document at the end of the press release which quotes what must be other documents passed between the charity and the church, which seem to indicate that the sale of the building to the charity was agreed by the parishes and that at least for a time, the hierarchy went along with it. Whatever the technicalities, it looks as though from social media platforms that the community are stridently supporting the charity. Let's hope as you say a solution can be found because it has the potential to damage trust in the church. But then again, is there any trust left to damage?
DeleteBangor and Mash
The cult in Wales has more empty Church buildings than it knows what to do with or is willing to spend to maintain, so you'd think they'd be glad to be rid of one.
DeleteOffa's trench Cherry is obviously envious of the success of the new charity and embarrassed by it.
In the Llandaff diocese, you can get a church building given to you for nothing plus a cool £1 million splash cash if you want to set up a Holy Trinity Brompton plant (Triffid).
Well done indeed Jon for your sterling - but futile - efforts. But can you take it further?
ReplyDeleteName and shame those pathetics - lay and clergy - who attended with their idiotic ideas. I am sure Ancient Britain will give space to our all sharing your insight knowledge while the rest of us can simply ridicule them. Not an easy decision to take I appreciate, but there are times when some Man-thinking 'Bollox' have affect. Meanwhile, good man ... and enjoy life in England.
The one I referred to named and shamed herself (https://youtu.be/M5ljYatWfOY?feature=shared at 51:10)
DeleteJon Sadler
Judging by the state of her, she's going to be an ordinand by the end of this year and a Canonness in Bangor by the end of next year.
DeleteSo insipid she could be Archbishopesse by the end of the decade but she might face stiff competition from the goofy grinning gargoyle in purple.
DeleteHas the Glasto Priestess announced its preferred pronouns?
DeleteWhat is a neo-Pagan?
Are there neo-Christians?
Looks like a neo-priestesse.
DeleteWhat institute of higher education is letting it do such a ridiculous PhD?
St. Michelle's, St. Padarn's, Glyndwr's?
Hogwarts?
DeleteCalvin Robinson suspended from GBNews.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66958077
Bosses are afraid of the woke crowd.
Ain't that the truth.
Bewildered
Calvin has subsequently been sacked. Disgraceful.
DeleteBewildered
Latest plod scandal.
ReplyDeleteChief Constable challenged over wearing medals to which he's not entitled.
A complete insult to anyone that has ever served.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/29/police-chief-accused-faking-military-record-falklands-medal/
Is Old Bill going to try and defend this too?
As anyone that knows will tell you, the rose clasp added to the Falklands medal signifies those who actually saw combat as opposed to those who took part in the campaign.
DeleteSince he was only 15 at the time, he's lower than a cockroach.
A total Walter.
Welby rebuffed.
ReplyDeleteRelationship with the Church of England "toxic".
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/29/suella-braverman-snub-talks-archbishop-canterbury-migrants/
Sod Welby.
The Church of England is toxic and is choking on its own swamp gas.
Bewildered
No Zebedee. I can't defend it at all. Totally bizarre! But nor can I defend that other clown Andrew John prancing around Wales with a Bishop's Mitre on his head. Total Walter!
ReplyDeleteOB
We agree on two points on the same day Bill.
DeleteWho said there's no such thing as miracles?
Don't let it get to your head Zebbers. You've a long way to go yet before membership of the Sanity Party.
ReplyDeleteTo quote Groucho Marx.
Delete"I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.”
The cover ups continue.
ReplyDeleteProtect the church and to hell with the victims.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/01/francisco-javier-cuenca-catholic-church-spain-rape-alleged/
Father Fran allegedly drugged and raped multiple victims.
Church authorities informed, no action taken, priest relocated to the mainland at his own request.
Sounds all too familiar, but of course, lessons will be learned.
Not.
Bewildered
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/01/harry-potter-stars-betrayed-jk-rowling-over-trans-views-say/
ReplyDeleteGraham Linehan sticks it to the Trans activists.
Well said Sir.
The vast majority of the population agree with you and to hell with the degenerate deviants.
"I think trans rights activists are the most evil people in the world".
ReplyDeleteI couldn't possibly agree more.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/01/harry-potter-stars-betrayed-jk-rowling-over-trans-views-say/
Even the BBC are reporting this story.
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66979020
Bewildered
Abercrombie & Fitch poofery exposed.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-66889779
Let's see if the Church of England and the cult in Wales commissioners divest themselves of any shares they hold?
Bewildered
Is this going on in the UK?
ReplyDeleteAfter Telford, Oxford, Rochdale and Rotherham, who knows?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66988933
Pope says Catholic Church could bless same sex unions.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pope-francis-same-sex-gay-marriages-blessed-nlczxz0xq
As mentioned in previous threads, Francis is heading down the same path to ruin as the heretics, the chocolate teapot and Welby.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66991427
ReplyDeleteGod does not bless sin and Francis needs to be told precisely what to do with and where to stick his "pastoral charity".
Open category for transgender swimmers has been scrapped as not a single entry was received.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/swimming/2023/10/03/swimming-transgender-athletes-open-category-scrapped/
The eunuchs and drag queens only want to race with the girls and use their changing rooms.
Bewildered
Scottish plod paying out compensation to plod over beard compensation and LGBT discrimination.
ReplyDeleteGagging clauses also used for 90 days.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005300
Yet again, you couldn't make it up.