MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.
Interviewed on the TV programme The Hour in April 2018 the first woman to be made bishop in Wales, Joanna Penberthy, branded anyone who disagrees with her as prejudiced. No debate. No theology. Just unsubstantiated accusations of prejudice.
There is much to question. For a start, on the validity of her orders Joanna Penberthy simply dismisses the question. She remarked, such 'prejudice' is 'water off a duck's back to her', probably because the Church in Wales has no defence for going their own way in defiance of the overwhelming majority of Christians in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
The ordination of women is a political tool used by feminists to further their own selfish interests. They are not interested in the welfare of the church. They care even less for the many cradle Anglicans who have found themselves excluded. Pleas not to go their separate ways were water off a ducks back to them.
They base their case on false notions of equality, distorting the meaning of Christ's redeeming love while appealing for secular support to undermine the faith of the Church. So successful has this strategy been in the Anglican Communion that feminists are now using similar tactics to attack the Roman Catholic Church.
Feminists used to claim that the Anglican Church should set an example to the secular world by breaking the stained glass ceiling as if there was no difference between the sacred and the secular. That argument is now being reversed in the Roman Catholic Church: There are female presidents and CEOs. Why are we still asking if women can lead in the church?
Our children and grandchildren are having to cope with the fallout of the new order. There are fewer male role models for boys to identify with. Women dominate primary education. Three quarters of secondary school teachers are women. The GP and the dentist are likely to be female along with the parish priest.
Girls and boys are forced to ignore their birth assigned sexual identity and cope with unnecessary problems of self identifying genders coupled with imposing the use of preferred pronouns. Then there is distress that can be caused following the imposition of unisex toilets and the presence of intending but not yet transgendered pupils in girls changing rooms, all of which defies logic and panders to wokery .
Anglican experience has shown that feminists are not to be trusted. They have inched their way forward with false promises to achieve their objective before undermining any agreements as they seek to get rid of any opposition.
The Church in Wales is a typical example. It prides itself as being a leader in diversity. Not in spreading the Gospel but falsely using the Gospel to achieve its ends by interpreting scripture to suit themselves.
The bishop of Monmouth uses her patronage, enthusiastically supported by the rest of the bench, in promoting LGBT minorities, while the 'first transgender priest' wasted no time in using the Church in Wales to spread transgender propaganda, an utter distortion of the Great Commission.
The bishop of St Davids has been busy spreading party political propaganda with her motto, “Never, never, never trust a Tory”. As Dominic Lawson commented in the Mail Online "With Tory-hating political bishops like this, the church hasn't got a prayer".
This is not the first time the bishop of St Davids has brought her office into disrepute. Her Dear John letter caused great offence to elderly clergy, raising suspicions that it was her way of getting rid of faithful traditionalist clergy. She busily backpedalled after adverse publicity
According to commentators responding to a previous entry That was the Church that was, it's over, let it go?, undeterred, Joanna has been meeting clergy and lay people to explain her position.
There is nothing more to explain. Joanna's extended absence looks increasingly like a cooling off device, hoping that her flock would forget so that she could return to duty as if nothing had happened.
Others viewed her behaviour differently.
Angela Tilby wrote in the Church Times, Bishops have to sacrifice privacy: "The public nature of episcopal office has been understood from antiquity. Bishops are meant to be visible, to be seen and known, to be a focus of unity in the Church, and a point of mediation between Christian communities and civic authority. “He must be well-thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace. . .” (1 Timothy 3.7).
The writing was on the wall from the start. Penberthy's was a political appointment engineered by archbishop Barry Morgan. Others have followed.
The rot deepens but the writing was on the wall from the start.
Tut tut Ancient Briton.
ReplyDeleteSurely to Betsy you mean "The Bishop of Monmouth uses her matronage enthusiastically"!
Ancient Briton really should have Kept reading his bible a bit more even kept on reading more if the book of Timothy to the next chapter 2 Timothy 2:23 or even 1 Corinthians 6 and this is before taking into account Matthew 7:1, Mark 1. its time to move on.
ReplyDeleteHow can we a Church the people of God move on if some anonymous blog author keeps seeking to divide the church (people of God) for the sake of his own readership? Are you not Guilty of the Same thing as the Lord Bishop of St David’s?
maybe you should discern if the Church in Wales or even Anglicism is for you. a good point I read elsewhere stop, moaning move on getting on with the task that task is for us as a WHOLE Church is to bring the love of our Saviour Jesus Christ to
in the last 30 years, churches in Wales row have been
Women Priest, LGBT issues, Women Bishops, Gay Bishops, LGBT Blessings, Ministry Area, types of worship, Choirs, and Music
Meanwhile when we have these rows the world outside has stopped coming into our Church numbers have been falling, WE HAVE LOST OUR VOICE! If we can talk to the Unchurched.
Maybe use your gifts of writing about trying to untie the Unchurched with HIS Church rather than divide his Church even more than it already is.
But even though I do not agree with what the Lord Bishop said and how she said it, there were better ways to draw attention to a political situation the bishop should have used her Pulpit as other bishops have done in Wales, Bishop Gwilym Williams comes to mind with guarantee the status of the language that was totally against the government of the day and Prime ministers’ point of view.
But look at the comment then looks to the past and look at the country since 2010 look at the state of the Current UK government was, she wrong in her comment. Yes, it had a political message but hay we have Constitution and Governing bodies and PCCs which are political entities. So there was nothing political about that tweet that came out even though the bishop running for Local Councillor was a matter of Public recode before her Election and consecration.
You also talk about the utter distortion of the Great Commission, but that was Jesus Christ to his disciples to spread the gospel to all the nations of the world. So to form his Church in his own way a united church, not a Divided church as you are doing so again you’re not practicing what you are preaching as you are just like the Lord Bishop of Saint David’s and the other Bishops you are trying to call out, the hypocrisy is riff within you my Brother use this Lent what’s left to put down your hypocrisy and hate and come into the light and see the love of gods church and his people. Do not seek to divide seek to unite and build.
HB
What the hell is Anglicism?
DeleteMeandering drivel.
Are you one of the plankers HB?
"Are you not Guilty of the Same thing as the Lord Bishop of St David’s?"
DeleteNo HB, that is what the bench of bishops in Wales and people expressing similar views to yours are guilty of. They are not 'moving on'. They are moving away.
"Maybe you should discern if the Church in Wales or even Anglicism is for you. a good point I read elsewhere, stop moaning move on getting on with the task that task is for us as a WHOLE Church is to bring the love of our Saviour Jesus Christ".
You echo the same uncharitable view as the former archdeacon of Llandaff, Peggy Jackson, "to make personal decisions and individual choices, to find accommodation as best they can". That coming from a late convert to cradle Anglicans who have endeavoured to keep the faith as received!
The views you and Jackson express are out of step with the 'WHOLE Church' as you put it. This blog seeks to express the views of the vast majority of Christians, including Anglicans.
How do you account for the same drop in attendance in the Roman Catholic church where they don't have women priests/bishops and where the priests are not LGBT (except we all know that the vast majority of Catholic clergy are gay and many non celibate).
ReplyDeletePewsitter
That's easy.
DeleteEducation and science.
There are considerably fewer feeble minded or uneducated gullible who can be fooled into believing in an imaginary and invisible friend as peddled by the self-perpetuating leeches of the Churches.
Dai the Druid's contribution to April 1st hilarity
DeleteAB, although you make legitimate criticisms of Joanna Penberthy, you probably spoiled tbe latest by making them unduly personal in the altered Rembrandt painting, which, although damning, is not hilariously funny. Is it?
ReplyDeletePersonally, I abominate much of what she stands for, and consider that the Welsh female bishops resemble little girls playing with hats and sticks.
Tom
Nothing on the reports in the Western Mail and Church Times regarding the never-ending story of Off-red?
ReplyDeleteThe Proctor appointed to the Tribunal is joint registrar from the Diocese of Salisbury and former domestic chaplain to the Bishop of Winchester, Dr Tim Dakin (nothing to worry about there!).
Saggyoldclothcath
One would hope he knows +Llandaff’s reputation from Salisbury. That may not be a negative thing!
DeleteDespite its many failings, St Padarn's still taught basic Hebrew and Greek.
DeleteAt least, it did in 2017/18.
The appointed Proctor for the Tribunal to inevestigate complaints against the Bishop of Llandaff will not allow June Osborne to sleep peacefully. When Clive was Chaplain to the Bishop of Winchester, he behaved like someone on secondment from MI6 as he trawled the Diocese of Winchester for minor infringements, and delighted in shoving clerical heads down the flushing toilet, before gleefully running home to tell his Master what a good boy he had been. Dakin went into Winchester demanding total compliance for his twisted agenda and brought Clive in to do his dirty work, which he delighted in. I am reliably informed that he will commence his task with his cupboard well-stocked with instances of June's self-serving shenanigans in Salisbury.
DeleteHowever, lest anyone in the Dean of Llandaff's camp is tempted to rub their hands, I gather Clive's penchant for winkling-out easily overlooked details could result in plenty of blood on the carpet there. Don't forget, Dr Daking was the only diocesan bishop in the CofE to demand chapter and verse about aspects of his clergy's lifestyle (let the reader understand) - and who do you think was keeping him fully briefed?
Whoever made the decision to bring Clive on board knows what they are doing and, once he's finished, there may not be many people left standing. That may be a good thing. It may not.
The Hebrew is Mene, Tekel and PARSIN, Some say "Uparsin" but the transliteration "U" is actually a conjunction "waw consecutive" attached to the start of "parsin". SD
ReplyDeleteThis section of Daniel is written in Aramaic, not Hebrew. However, the writing on the wall in AB's picture does not say Mene, Mene, Teqel uparsin if you were to read it in the usual way that Hebrew and Aramaic are read, which is right to left. The Aramaic is מנא מנא תקל ופרסין Rembrandt arranged the letters in columns top right to bottom left.
DeleteSeymour
All pretty much academic when one considers how few clergy in the Cult in Wales nowadays can read Hebrew or Aramaic, even among the plankers.
DeleteSadly 1662, you are quite right. The "Janet and John" Theological School (I think some call it St Padarn's) thinks that Biblical languages are a thing of the past.
DeleteSeymour
They teach that the OT was written post-exile to justify occupying Eretz Israel (except they do not know what Eretz Israel is!)
DeleteWhy should priests be required to be linguists? Let there be biblical scholars, but foreign language linguistic skills should not be a pre-requisite for parish priests.
ReplyDeleteRob
Quite the opposite Rob.
DeleteStudy of ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic used to be part of the syllabus for degrees in Divinity.
Our Sunday school lessons were all the more interesting because our incumbent could read, translate and pronounce correctly various texts and place names.
But the most fun was to be had when hearing him debate with Jehovah's witnesses over issues like refusing blood transfusions. They would claim that the Bible had been mistranslated into English from the Hebrew, Greek or Latin versions, at which point he would produce a Bible in the relevant language, read it out aloud in that language and then translate it for them.
It never failed to shut them up and send them packing.
In addition to showing them the error of their ways, it also had the advantage of very occasionally converting some of them from being JsWs too!
A valid point, with its limits. Nevertheless, I contend that compulsory training in NT Greek is not the highest or most important skill a priest needs. He has so many translations to draw upon. If he has studied theology and the New Testament he will be aware of disputed texts and of the various interpretations and why. Unless he is a real linguistic scholar, he will not be able to solve such issues with the basic knowledge he has received.
DeleteAs to blood tranfusions, James's letter in Acts requires disciples to abstain from blood. That is more a matter of interpretation than of linguistics, I should say.
Nevertheless, you would have most NT professors on your side in insisting on compulsory Greek for ordinands. I should say that all the hours I spent poring over Greek texts was an inordinate amount of time tbat could have been better spent.
Rob
I'd second all that, Rob. We are preachers and ministers of the Gospel, not academicians - mind you, I hope our sermons are intelligent, informed and stimulating! As you say, there are all sorts of aids out there to help us study texts and contexts. A basic knowledge of Greek or Hebrew will not be enough for a reader to pick up the subtle nuances of the languages.
DeleteIt would seem your sermons are not so well informed,and I wasn't referring to a "basic" knowledge of ancient Greek or Hebrew BT.
DeleteAs Seymour has already said, the "Janet and John" school of Theology. Book 1!
As for "abstain from blood" perhaps that refers to having your steak bien cuivre" rather than rare?
A GCSE from St. Padarn's just doesn't cut the mustard.
Sadly Ruth, in the Janet and John School of Theology here in Wales, they do not even have a Book 1. The dumbing down is horrendous. When I did my BD degree back in the late 70s, people were turfed off the course if they failed their first year language exams. The state of education is so bad these days that before teaching students Greek and Hebrew, university lecturers would have to teach them basic English Grammar, and I am afraid they can't be bothered to do that.
DeleteIf the clergy cannot read the original texts and pass on their knowledge to their congregations, then there is no hope for any form of orthodoxy in their congregations. Last September, we saw Plankers, Clergy and Laity speak to a bill and hinge their comments on love. Two of the favourite quotes were "Love your neighbour as you love yourself" and the other being "Love one another" The entire debate was appallingly bad, with lies being told by the Planker of St Asaph. Yet no-one got up to challenge the linguistic element of those quotations because the love spoken of is not sexual love. Nowhere in the pages of the New Testament will you find the word "eros" - sexual love. As a result, the Governing Body had to misappropriate texts to suit their argument.
This is why I think Rob and Baptist Trainfan are wrong. When clergy do not know what that text is talking about, they cannot correct the errors which their congregations may have misunderstood. Down that road lies heresy, and most of the heretical bishops of the early church got a notion in their heads because they failed to grasp what Scripture was driving at. These days, the apostate bishops of the Cult in Wales simply ignore Scripture, whilst encouraging their dioceses to do the same.
Seymour
Seymour - Thank you for your comment, and the way in which you have put it. And of course I agree with the misappropriation of Biblical texts, for whatever reason - this is of course a practie which has a long and dishonourable history!
DeleteBut I must respectfully disagree with what you say about Greek and Hebrew, for the two reasons I have already stated but will repeat. One is that 'ordinary' clergy who study the ancient languages (I did NT Greek by the way, but not Hebrew) rarely attain more than a "working knowledge" of them - certainly not enough to properly delve into the intricacies and subtleties of the text. Second, I believe that there are enough good resources, such as commentaries, available to allow preachers to find out what the text says and means - assuming of course that they are willing to put the time into doing the necessary study! As it happens, I can't count how many times I've come to a knotty bit of text and gone to commentaries only to find them saying, "The meaning of these words is unclear" or something similar!
One thing I cannot do, being both Baptist and English, is comment on either the past or present formation of Welsh Anglican clergy!
Baptist Trainfan, we are obviously going to disagree because I thoroughly enjoyed biblical languages, undertaking four of my eight final papers in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. I enjoyed the languages so much, I opted for a paper that most people run a mile from - translating an unseen passage of Hebrew, an unseen passage of Aramaic; and for special measure, translating an unseen passage of English into Hebrew. The unseen passage in our year was Elijah on Mount Horeb. I had never seen the Hebrew word for an earthquake, so had to do some quick thinking. My translation became "a shaking-of-the earth". It amused our Hebrew lecturer because my two fellow students doing the course left a blank space in the text.
DeleteIn all seriousness, Baptist Trainfan, try reading the passage you are going to preach on (if it is in the New Testament) in a Greek Text. It might take time, but it will be worth it, and the more you do it, the easier it will become. When you look up some of the Greek words in a dictionary, you will discover alternative translations for the word, but that will help to put the word into its context. You will have a lightbulb moment - "That is what St Paul / Jesus is driving at!" You could end up with a series of sermons on what may have looked like a very uninteresting passage.
Sorry, AB, that this is way off the thread of the blog, but I am sure that you don't me encouraging our brothers and sisters in the best interests of orthodoxy!
Seymour
Well said Seymour.
DeleteClergy who struggle with the English language (never mind Ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic) are all too common, but their LGBTQIA politically correct credentials are all impeccably up to date.
From what I have read on AB's blog, the chocolate teapot in Bangor is adept in mangling the Welsh language too.
Thank you Seymour, I think we'll leave it there - with my genuine admiration for your enthusiasm for, and abilities in, the Biblical languages! I'm afraid I only did some Greek and didn't enjoy it anything as much as you did (although I did enjoy learning Portuguese before working in West Africa, and got pretty good at that). I think though we are agreed that preaching should be serious rather than fluffy, and based on a careful rather than a superficial reading of the text, one which takes into account the context in which it was written.
DeleteIf I didn't have a basic knowledge of Greek I wouldn't know that "eleison" in Kyrie eleison (Lord have mercy) was related to the comforting and strengthening effect of anointing with olive oil.
DeleteRuth talks nonsense - she belongs to the age of Christendom poor dab.
ReplyDeletePewster
Bishops can reasonably demand from their clergy - and perhaps even from their laity - 'due and canonical obedience in all things lawful and honest'. But that encompasses a pretty narrow compass!
ReplyDeleteIn other respects the private and personal opinions of individual bishops are not one whit more binding on the rest of their flock than those of anyone else. If they convince you, fair enough; if they don't, then ignore them. Your own informed conscience should be the ultimate determinant, not theirs.
99.99% of the population of Wales agree with you John.
DeleteThe problem john is not her persuading people. The problem is the fact that she has alienated and hurt her flock. And the 'apology' stated for offence caused not for stating sanctimonious claptrap and nasty personal viciousness towards those she disagrees with. St. David's pewsitter
DeleteJohn Ellis wisely draws us to the codex available to bishops under Canonical Law but in truth Canonical Law is long overdue total overhaul. Curiously, Military Law is the closest one gets to mirroring Ecclesiastical law, but unlike Canonical law, it has been modernised and is proved to work.
ReplyDeleteWhere Military Law (curiously written in/around 1112 as disciplinary 'bible' for the Holy Land Crusaders) proves itself workable whereas Canonical proves inept is in introduction of Section 69 of the Army Act 1955 which allows for: 'bringing the Army into disrepute'. This is an all-embracing section covering anything from a soldier in uniform seen spitting on the street to charges which might involve his/her immediate Courts Martial discharge or worse. While Military Law and Canonical Law are otherwise so very similar - including the right of the Army or Church to act as investigator, prosecutor, Judge & Jury and administrator of punishment - the Church hasn't recognised the value of 'Section 69' [...bringing the Church into disrepute].
If it had and as a catch-all clause, then so many wayward and even unsavoury clergy could be dealt with by bishops (or even bishops themselves being charged).
At present most clergy acting against Canonical obedience simply shun the system on being found guilty and turn instead to other Statues such as Employment Law as their get-out-of-prison or right of redress card. There is no such escape route under Military Law or the Army Act.
At the 1998 High Court Judicial Review into his dismissal from the Diocese of Bangor (or sacking by +Barry Morgan) is was interesting to note the number of high ranking officers of the Army Legal Service sit in the public benches closely following proceedings. There because they realised how their military legal system and ours in the C-in-W are so closely linked. Had there been a Section 69 in place within the Church, then Williams wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. Nor perhaps would the +St. Davids or umpteen more.
Ad Clerum
Omitted by accident from my earlier, ref Military Law (last paragraph) was of course, the Judicial Review against sacking was brought by the then Rev. Clifford Williams (Bangor); an issue which cost the C-in-W dearly in terms of professional legal costs as indeed, the Dioc. of Bangor/C-in-W spent out in a few other cases since. Section 69 of the Army Act 1955 written into Canonical Law would put end to that sort of nonsense .... and readers of course should know there is no upper-rank to which the Section applies
ReplyDeleteAd Clerum
More and more reports are coming in of Joanna's public relations meetings. It is said that even when stipendiary clergy make strongly critical remarks, 'she has an answer for everything'. In other words a monumental waste of time. I despair of her.
ReplyDeleteBut she mustn't let the sisterhood down, must she?
Rob
Time then for a letter of no confidence in DodoJo.
DeleteIs she won't go then she needs to be pushed, hard.
You cannot win an argument against stupidity no matter how hard you try,e.g. Bazza, Jojo, and it has caused great damage to the CinW.
DeleteLW
DodoJo lost the argument almost a year ago, she just won't/can't accept it.
DeleteShe still has to go.
Boris talking some common sense at last.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61012030
Stupid as he may have been (LW) Bazza is no more so why continue bashing him. Better perhaps is that our focus be on the current archbishop, Andrew John of equal brainless stupidity onto whose kilted lap the bitter-chalice has fallen. "Andy", like Vladimir Putin, cowers when personal criticism over his ineptitude is directed at him; its his weakness. The more fired at him, the sooner he might up-skirt and quit. He might, however, shock us all and sacrifice JoJo to save his own thin-skinned neck.
ReplyDeleteAd Clerum
The picture says it all. Thank G-d I'm no longer trying to exercise "ministry" in the C in W. https://llandaff.churchinwales.org.uk/en/faith-and-ministry/ministries-fair/?fbclid=IwAR2BZ8Lv64mc6ArZPDWSspsCwWNmWNRTBfEEu3Yc865G23NkZBANEhSUkWM
ReplyDeleteAlready it bears all the hallmarks of another Diocesan,"sneak-a-peek" debacle.
DeleteAs Bonaparte used to say in Llandaff Cathedral, "That will go down like a cup of cold sick".
DeleteDodoJo is certainly vomit inducing!
DeleteI didn't get my usual invitation to the Maundy Mass at St David's this year. Is this because Joanna is too frit to face all her clergy or is it just that my post has gone astray? I'd have loved an invitation so I could have boycotted her.
DeleteMuch more fun to turn up for the service and walk out very publicly as she was about to start her sermon.
DeleteLittle seems known of the new Arch south of Wrexham so we await his emergence from the present deafening silence.
ReplyDeleteThis combination of hypocrisy and self assurance never seems to fail in the CinW. If anyone is anxious to see the associated malady of stupidity then a visit further south to Pembrokeshire's tip will answer.
LW