It's clear from the report of the recent Visitation - mentioned in Norman Lebrecht's article - that Wells has been an unhappy place with clear deficiencies in leadership and culture. See: http://tinyurl.com/bdhvy3xa. In such circumstances I think it made sense to defer the appointment of a new DoM.
However Mr. Lebrecht's article makes the interesting point that the choir and lay clerks were very happy with the approach shown by one candidate, apparently not appointed, while roundly disliking the approaches of the other three. While it’s obviously important, nay vital, for the DoM to have to confidence of the musicians they are directing, one must ask a further question, which is whether their attitudes and musical values are at variance with those of the Chapter as a whole?
It does seem to me (and I have no knowledge whatsoever of the situation at Wells) that church musicians may regard it as essential to maintain certain traditions (often expressed as "standards" although that is a moot point) and can be quick to reject suggestions of change from the wider church community. Indeed comments such as, “They’re not musicians and they don’t know what they are saying” may be bandied about.
It goes without saying that the Anglican choral tradition must be preserved (I myself love – and have sung in! – the occasional Choral Evensong); however I do feel that churches and cathedrals need a more varied diet these days. Does the situation referred to by Mr. Lebrecht (who, I believe, likes to be seen as a controversialist in musical circles) therefore represent a “them and us” situation, whereby insecure musicians feel that their positions and values are under threat? I don't know, but it seems possible.
You're right, you don't know. You're confusing vey different issues. Standards are one thing, tradition, custom and practise, the house "style", techniques (playing, rehearsing, performing, conducting, reciting, even how sheet music is held and pages turned) can all vary considerably, especially in professional choirs. The Wells Lay Clerks would not be willing to suffer second raters gladly. Having taken part in an "occasional" Evensong means squat.
Surprised Moore has stayed in Llandaff so long, and for what? No serious funding, a department kept on life support by a shoestring budget provided by the Friends of Llandaff Cathedral, zero hours contracts for the back row, the joke of the Music Foundation launch that never was, the resignation of the woman responsible for trying to launch it, another Dean that's on the sick more than he's in work, no Parish Choir but an "animateur" instead to run a kiddies chorus, along with a risible Llandaff Festival resurrected only to keep his wife busy and justify her position in the admin office. He'd be better off trying to set up a Monkey Music franchise somewhere.
Unnecessary to bring the man's wife into it. Quite risible in itself! At least someone has bothered to make the effort to re-establish what used to be a mainstay of the cathedral's profile, never mind the fact it seems to be a fair success, being about the only thing that makes any money, or draws in people that wouldn't normally know the cathedral exists. I'd say she's more than justified her position.
What do you do that's useful around here?
Sticky
P.s. quite right, Rhydderch, nothing out of the ordinary at all.
How do you suggest Cathedral choirs obtain a "more varied diet" of music. Is a thousand years of different styles and composers not enough for a non anglican dabbler?
Fascinating to note LG that Rhydderch appears to object to any mention of the wife and any alleged nepotism going on, but doesn't dispute a single one of the other facts listed.
Knowing what the back row of a Cathedral Choir can be like, and in at least one in my memory, prima donnas were never in short supply; nor, (shock! Horror!) was the odd bitchy comment: I would hate to be the candidate that everybody didn’t want. It looks to me as if the successful candidate will have something of a mountain to climb if he is to pursuade recalcitrant and possibly rather demoralised choristers that he is their man. It won’t be easy for either side, I don’t think.
Ashenden attempts to make acceptable and intelligent his misogyny and prejudice in this piece. Utterly tedious. His accent belies his shallow and narrow minded stupidity.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/12073333/nelson-reimagined-as-gay-icon/amp/ National Maritime Museum attempts to queer naval history. Who's funding this rubbish? Bewildered
https://www.wellscathedral.org.uk/archives/46837079#:~:text=Wells%20Cathedral%20is%20delighted%20to,post%20on%201%20September%202024 Too many people sounding too delighted and an entire new back row at St. Ed's hardly sounds like a happy ship. One suspects this isn't the end of the story but Llandaff, the graveyard of so many careers, is still saddled with Moore.
The truth will out, even if Thames Valley, Bedford, or Avon and Somerset plod try to conceal it or delete the body cam footage. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67958136 Scum is too good a word for them.
Alkali Abdul. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68167793 Convicted sex offender, converted Christian and doubly failed asylum seeker. Yet another gift of multiculturalism.
https://deadline.com/2024/02/bbc-antisemitism-scheduler-facebook-posts-1235810858/ Dawn Queva, senior BBC employee and anti-semitic. Multiculturalism, the gift that keeps on giving. The truth will out.
Utterly incompetent Metropolitan plod and CPS bring themselves into disrepute. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68180317 Little wonder the poison dwarf is grinning like the fool she is.
More truth getting out. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1862834/suella-braverman-launches-furious-attack-on-bogus-asylum-claims Church leaders assisting bogus asylum claims. Hardly a surprise, this crap has been going on for years.
Rev Matthew Firth has accused the Church of England of being knowingly complicit in hundreds, if not thousands, of fake baptisms for muslim asylum seekers. Which CofE churches will publish their communicant numbers to demonstrate and confirm the huge increase in their congregations and the success of their evangelism efforts?
Speaking of truth getting out.
ReplyDeletehttps://slippedisc.com/2024/01/unholy-disorder-at-wells-cathedral/
Trouble at Wells Cathedral too?
It's clear from the report of the recent Visitation - mentioned in Norman Lebrecht's article - that Wells has been an unhappy place with clear deficiencies in leadership and culture. See: http://tinyurl.com/bdhvy3xa. In such circumstances I think it made sense to defer the appointment of a new DoM.
ReplyDeleteHowever Mr. Lebrecht's article makes the interesting point that the choir and lay clerks were very happy with the approach shown by one candidate, apparently not appointed, while roundly disliking the approaches of the other three. While it’s obviously important, nay vital, for the DoM to have to confidence of the musicians they are directing, one must ask a further question, which is whether their attitudes and musical values are at variance with those of the Chapter as a whole?
It does seem to me (and I have no knowledge whatsoever of the situation at Wells) that church musicians may regard it as essential to maintain certain traditions (often expressed as "standards" although that is a moot point) and can be quick to reject suggestions of change from the wider church community. Indeed comments such as, “They’re not musicians and they don’t know what they are saying” may be bandied about.
It goes without saying that the Anglican choral tradition must be preserved (I myself love – and have sung in! – the occasional Choral Evensong); however I do feel that churches and cathedrals need a more varied diet these days. Does the situation referred to by Mr. Lebrecht (who, I believe, likes to be seen as a controversialist in musical circles) therefore represent a “them and us” situation, whereby insecure musicians feel that their positions and values are under threat? I don't know, but it seems possible.
You're right, you don't know.
DeleteYou're confusing vey different issues.
Standards are one thing, tradition, custom and practise, the house "style", techniques (playing, rehearsing, performing, conducting, reciting, even how sheet music is held and pages turned) can all vary considerably, especially in professional choirs.
The Wells Lay Clerks would not be willing to suffer second raters gladly.
Having taken part in an "occasional" Evensong means squat.
Interesting to see Moore is trying to get out of Llandaff Cathedral.
DeletePeople move on. Nothing interesting just fancies a change?
DeleteRhydderch.
Surprised Moore has stayed in Llandaff so long, and for what? No serious funding, a department kept on life support by a shoestring budget provided by the Friends of Llandaff Cathedral, zero hours contracts for the back row, the joke of the Music Foundation launch that never was, the resignation of the woman responsible for trying to launch it, another Dean that's on the sick more than he's in work, no Parish Choir but an "animateur" instead to run a kiddies chorus, along with a risible Llandaff Festival resurrected only to keep his wife busy and justify her position in the admin office.
DeleteHe'd be better off trying to set up a Monkey Music franchise somewhere.
Unnecessary to bring the man's wife into it. Quite risible in itself! At least someone has bothered to make the effort to re-establish what used to be a mainstay of the cathedral's profile, never mind the fact it seems to be a fair success, being about the only thing that makes any money, or draws in people that wouldn't normally know the cathedral exists. I'd say she's more than justified her position.
DeleteWhat do you do that's useful around here?
Sticky
P.s. quite right, Rhydderch, nothing out of the ordinary at all.
How do you suggest Cathedral choirs obtain a "more varied diet" of music.
DeleteIs a thousand years of different styles and composers not enough for a non anglican dabbler?
DeleteFascinating to note LG that Rhydderch appears to object to any mention of the wife and any alleged nepotism going on, but doesn't dispute a single one of the other facts listed.
https://slippedisc.com/2024/01/saints-alive-wells-appoints-director-the-musicians-didnt-want/
DeleteFurther friction almost inevitable.
Some vigorous debate in the "comments" below that article!
DeleteKnowing what the back row of a Cathedral Choir can be like, and in at least one in my memory, prima donnas were never in short supply; nor, (shock! Horror!) was the odd bitchy comment: I would hate to be the candidate that everybody didn’t want. It looks to me as if the successful candidate will have something of a mountain to climb if he is to pursuade recalcitrant and possibly rather demoralised choristers that he is their man. It won’t be easy for either side, I don’t think.
DeleteQuondam organist.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletePerhaps AB would be kind enough to remove my earlier post. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThanks, but it was actually my longer post above that I wished to have removed!
ReplyDeleteAshenden attempts to make acceptable and intelligent his misogyny and prejudice in this piece. Utterly tedious. His accent belies his shallow and narrow minded stupidity.
ReplyDeleteRhydderch.
ReplyDeleteThe truth will out indeed!
Church of England primary school allows four year-old boy to attend as a girl, resulting in disaster for other girl pupils.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/26/four-year-old-boy-joins-church-school-as-girl/
Welby's ideological sickness continues to spread.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/12073333/nelson-reimagined-as-gay-icon/amp/
ReplyDeleteNational Maritime Museum attempts to queer naval history.
Who's funding this rubbish?
Bewildered
https://www.wellscathedral.org.uk/archives/46837079#:~:text=Wells%20Cathedral%20is%20delighted%20to,post%20on%201%20September%202024
ReplyDeleteToo many people sounding too delighted and an entire new back row at St. Ed's hardly sounds like a happy ship.
One suspects this isn't the end of the story but Llandaff, the graveyard of so many careers, is still saddled with Moore.
Forty new choristers seems a very high turnover in just over two years.
DeleteLast post should have been from Harold Darke. Doh!!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68122079
ReplyDeleteHow many times must the BBC get it wrong?
There is NO SUCH THING as a transgender woman.
Bewildered
The truth will out, even if Thames Valley, Bedford, or Avon and Somerset plod try to conceal it or delete the body cam footage.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67958136
Scum is too good a word for them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-68164010
ReplyDeleteMore joy from Bliar's multicultural enrichment program.
Another failed illegal immigrant.
Alkali Abdul.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68167793
Convicted sex offender, converted Christian and doubly failed asylum seeker.
Yet another gift of multiculturalism.
https://deadline.com/2024/02/bbc-antisemitism-scheduler-facebook-posts-1235810858/
ReplyDeleteDawn Queva, senior BBC employee and anti-semitic.
Multiculturalism, the gift that keeps on giving.
The truth will out.
Utterly incompetent Metropolitan plod and CPS bring themselves into disrepute.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68180317
Little wonder the poison dwarf is grinning like the fool she is.
More truth getting out.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1862834/suella-braverman-launches-furious-attack-on-bogus-asylum-claims
Church leaders assisting bogus asylum claims.
Hardly a surprise, this crap has been going on for years.
For a change it seems it wasn't the insipid CofE but the bleeding heart Baptists.
DeleteGullible fools.
It's not that long ago that various churches and ministers were doing a roaring trade in fake marriages for the same reasons.
DeleteBewildered
Rev Matthew Firth has accused the Church of England of being knowingly complicit in hundreds, if not thousands, of fake baptisms for muslim asylum seekers.
DeleteWhich CofE churches will publish their communicant numbers to demonstrate and confirm the huge increase in their congregations and the success of their evangelism efforts?
For one who had converted to Christianity, alkali Abdul was still very fastidious during Ramadan.
Delete