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| Binding together Source: FaceBook |
'Never, never, never trust a Tory' was the infamous tweet from the bishop of St Davids.
The bishop, Joanna Penberthy, issued an apology after a torrent of complaints: "On March 25th, 2021 I put out a private tweet about Conservative Party supporters which has caused offence and for which I sincerely apologise."
She later went on extended sick leave and has again been signed off. Readers will not wish the bishop ill but why did she not do the honourable thing and resign having offended just about everyone in her diocese and beyond who were not of her party political persuasion?
Archbishop Cranmer wrote in his blog, "The apology issued by the Bishop of St Davids (of the Church in Wales) in the wake of her ‘Never never never trust a Tory‘ tweet is disingenuous. It is expediently sly. In short, it is a lie."
The archbishop of Canterbury was 'deeply embarrassed,' but not Andy John, the future archbishop of Wales, who as the senior bishop issued this statement:
“I think the question whether Bishop Joanna resigns is done and dusted”, Bishop Andy states. “She made clear that she regretted what she had to say… I think if we cannot provide a way in which people can acknowledge wrongdoing, learn from their mistakes, and come back, then it begs questions about whether we believe people can change. Whether or not we think the Christian faith is about second chances. To me, fundamentally, it’s about that. And those who are baying and frothing at the mouth seem to me to be part of what I think is quite pernicious in society: which is that we dress up in virtue – or in the language of virtue – a kind-of campaign to persecute.”
In a previous blog I wrote, "Having found 'Biblical support for church gay marriages' the divorced and re-married bishop of Bangor can no doubt justify anything he fancies."
As one correspondent put it, "If that isn’t mimicking a wedding, I don’t what does . . . binding with his stole and presumably saying, "Those whom God hath joined . . ."
The whole bench is committed to gay marriage. Some just cannot wait.
The above photo has a caption from the Revd Sarah Hildreth-Osborn, leader of the chaplaincy service for the LGBTQIA+ community in the diocese of St Asaph where Gregory Cameron is bishop:
"A huge thank you to Gregory K Cameron for conducting such a beautiful and life giving service for us at St Grwsts at lunchtime today, the blessing of our marriage. A reminder to all that it is only love that sets us free!!! Thank you so much Bishop Gregory 💕"
The Rt Revd Gregory Cameron received the Religious Leader Award 'for his leadership within the Church in Wales in bringing them to a point of enabling same-sex blessings'.
A news item issued by St Asaph diocese in December 2021 described the award as "Bishop Gregory honoured for his outstanding contribution to the lives of LGBT+ people of faith."
The bench has jumped the gun before. They could not wait to see a woman bishop celebrate the Eucharist so imported a converted Jewish, Episcopalian woman bishop from the United States before women bishops were legal in the Church in Wales.
These actions typify the current bench of bishops.
What of others 'of faith' in the Church in Wales? They count for nothing. The Church in Wales has become obsessed with promoting just about anything LGBT+ .
The bishop of Monmouth is the first same sex partnered bishop. The bishop of Llandaff, June Osborne appointed the first transgender priest and has recently appointed a same sex partnered dean of Llandaff, thus perpetuating their main mission as she retires.
Osborne has long been associated with rumours of bullying tactics with a disciplinary panel finding she had a case to answer.
The Vicar of Radyr submitted her resignation saying that she could no longer, with integrity, knowing the many things she knew, serve in the diocese where she believed a 'culture of fear' exists. A diocesan survey conducted after her initial exposure 'brought up the same results'.
Today it has been reported that the vicar of Aberporth has "quit his post after revealing a lengthy battle with mental health he says brought him to the brink of a nervous breakdown.
"In announcing his intention to leave the Anglican Church In Wales he also had harsh words for Bishop of St Davids, Joanna Penberthy."
The Rev Christopher Frost said: "Earlier this week I tendered my resignation as vicar which was accepted by the Archbishop of Wales in the absence of Bishop Joanna."
The bench does as it pleases. They have no regard for the Christian message as received and delivered by others. Instead they distort it, a pretence intended to validate their own opinions while deceiving others.
The bench has become a self perpetuating clique leading others to perdition. Honour escapes them.
It leads one to believe never, never, never trust an Anglican bishop in Wales.
Postscript [27.09.2022]
Leaving the Church in Wales...but not the church in Wales. A broken vicar's story. God bless him.
"Bishops in our Church have too much power and far too little accountability which has the tendency to make a little chaos in our diocese particularly. When the bishop is installed, who is pleasant to be with in person, but who makes very divisive and unwise decisions that bring the whole Church into disrepute while also having a catastrophic effect on clergy morale is a problem being keenly felt in our diocese today. Also over the past five years or so, the teaching of the Church in Wales has been pulled very hard into what I consider to be a wildly liberal theological direction, one that no longer really represents truly the teachings of Jesus Christ on a number of key moral issues that are facing our society today. So the banner of the Church in Wales, the Anglican Church in Wales, is becoming one which is becoming just a bit too difficult for me in good conscience to work under any more." - Rev Christopher Frost in a video posted to YouTube.
The former priestess in Radyr, Vicky Burrows, was also replaced by Caiaphas with another openly homosexual priest, "married" to a "husband" and now living together in a church vicarage.
ReplyDeleteWhat was previously a swamp has most assuredly become a midden of filth.
The apostates on the bench need to be defrocked and driven out.
Sarah Hildreth-Osborn should be defrocked and driven out at the same time. Apostasy and perversity being dressed up and misrepresented as "love".
DeleteTruly sickening.
When do you reckon you would catch her in a frock?
DeleteTwo women that look like blokes and no rainbow stole? No rainbow flags? No unicorns or fairies?
ReplyDeleteJust a charade for sham christians by a sham bishop.
The sooner the cult in Wales dies, the better.
The decline and fall of the Cult in Wales can be hastened most effectively by the orthodox traditional clergy following the brave examples of Rev Maynard in Angle and Rev Frost in Aberporth. The few thousand remaining pew sitters can also demonstrate their disapproval by stopping their giving and also walking away for good.
DeleteThe demographic time bomb is about to go off.
Combined with the cost of living crisis, the end should be nigh.
Here's hoping all the elderly widows will choose to spend their mites heating their own homes rather than the empty churches run by the deviant bishops and their gay cabal.
God does not bless sin.
DeleteWhich part of that doesn't Gregory understand?
The Tivy-side Advertiser, 25 October, prints a letter from Rev'd Christopher Frost of Aberporth questioning reports of his mental health. He writes: "The main reason my wife and I are leaving the Church in Wales is due to starting a new and more focussed Christian ministry. We love our churches and congregations, and are sad to say goodbye - it has been a very positive five years for us in ministry here, plus two further years of ministry in Cardigan, all in wonderful churches. ..I'd also like to note that in many ways I have been pastorally well-supported by the Church in Wales, and by my Archdeacon in particular."
DeleteCongregations shrinking, financial deficits, former big-givers deserting , and one reason why is seen in this picture. LGBT has taken the Church into a dead-end, courtesy of the Bench of Bishops, and especially the Bishop of Llandaff and her pernicious appointments. The only way back for the Church is to come out firmly against the LGBT movement, overtly gay clergy and SS marriage.
ReplyDeleteLW
Despite wrapping his stole around their hands, God has not joined them together.
ReplyDeleteAs for the prospect of any man putting those two asunder..... 😂 😂 😂
They both went to such great trouble to dress up for the oh so "beautiful life giving service".
DeleteWhy do they need to look so much like men when they don't like men so much?
Perhaps they'll be going over to Llanddonna to do some "Champing" for their "Honeymoon"?
DeleteAt £50 per person per night lesbian romp in St. Dona's church should provide the St. Asaph LGBTQIA Chaplaincy with lots of good material for their monthly open eucharists,not to mention excellent PR material for Gregory to send to the Ozanne foundation.
Following her repeated nasty remarks towards others here's hoping DodoJo's problems are anything but trivial.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait to see the back of her.
How very Christian of you
DeleteWho said I'm a Christian?
DeleteI'm no more a Christian than she is. Let her reap what she has sown.
Gregorius Maximus is a complete disgrace and has brought himself and the Church into disrepute yet again.
ReplyDeleteHow long before he has to retire?
Old age and his gluttony will hold him to account even if the Governing Body and the chocolate teapot Randy Pandy will not.
Bewildered.
Isn't it interesting that not only does the Cult in Wales distort the Christian gospel, but the alphabet people cannot even quote scripture properly, preferring instead to distort it. It is not love that sets us free, Jesus said that the truth will set you free. The very truth that the plankers turn their backs on. Homosexuality is a sin, and God does not bless sin. That is the truth that the alphabet people need to accept.
ReplyDeleteSeymour
It's the truth the plankers need to accept, never mind the alphabet soup!
DeleteIn the debate about SSB in September 2021, +Gregory made this incredibly pompous statement about gay Christians that he knew, saying, 'I will not betray them, in this life or the next'. Whatever God's view on partnered gay people is, to claim that he has any control over things in the life to come was hubris on the grandest of scales. For one who had served at the Anglican Communion as Director of Ecumenical Affairs, he showed blatant and utter disregard for the unity of the Communion. We all saw the effect of that at the beginning of the Lambeth conference.
ReplyDeleteNow we see another great young priest leave St David's Diocese, feeling broken and unsupported. When will they realise that rejecting the teaching of Christ's apostles will mean a removal of blessing that £100M can never replace?
WHAMAB
You’ve slightly misquoted Gregory there. What he actually said was that he would not betray them for any price in this life or the next. What that says to me is that he has no fear of the Lord and would rather go to hell than upset LGBT people.
DeleteMick
Don't worry Mick, hell is his final destination. He has denied the Lord Jesus Christ in favour of his chosen position. He and four of the other plankers along with the assistant planker are apostates and heretics. The Lord Jesus Christ states quite clearly: Whoever acknowledges me in front of humanity, the Son of Man will acknowledge in front of the angels of God; but whoever denies me in front of humanity will be denied by me in front of the angels of God.
DeleteTo save face with the alphabet people, Jesus and his gospel were sold down the river. The only one to stand his ground has been the Bishop of Swansea and Brecon. I am surprised the Archplanker hasn't created the post of Provincial Assassin in order to get John Lomas bumped off.
Seymour
Gregorius Maximus has already betrayed them and taken his 30 pieces of silver from Stonewall and their familiars.
Deletehttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/25/exclusive-trans-charity-mermaids-giving-breast-binders-children/
ReplyDeleteMermaids can now be added to the list along with Unicorns.
These weirdos are a danger to children so how did they ever obtain charitable status in the first place?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63081644
DeleteCharity Commissioners doing something useful for a change.
Trustee resigns over link with paedophile organisation a decade ago.
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63137873
Mermaids now in a swamp too.
Jayne Ozanne is full of crap.
ReplyDeleteGregory hasn't taken "the majority of the Church in Wales" with him at all.
The truth is that he and the other plankers have LOST the vast majority of the Church in Wales.
The numbers don't lie.
So hands up then ye all. How many of AB's regular correspondents - and occasional trip-ins - still attend C-in-W churches for weekly rations of glad-handing and condoning of hypocritic support of Anglican clergy leadership 'weirdos', LGBTQ bumsters, deviant bishops and gay-cabal clergy. Advocating that you simply stop depositing loose change into the collection plate is hardly protest. How many of you - Seymour, Zebedee, Whamab, 1662, Bewildered, Menai Straight, LW, Lex et Veritas et al - have made your protests by simply tearing up your PCC/congregant cards and as with the iconic painting which still adorns many Welsh houses of the dear old gal' in top hat who storms out .... have quit. Or, like many do you still pretend support while purporting protest in AB's blogsite.
ReplyDeleteMe? Quit for good. Yeah, I miss it but I loathe false-tongue double-standards.
So come on folks. Honesty time. Someone's still sitting in the pews. Which ones of you are true to yourselves and which ones conning the others? You want honesty in our clergy? Lets begin with a bit of home integrity. Who'll start ... ?
Old Bill (yeah, same Old Bill ridiculed by some for being 'obnoxious' for being simply honest; before as later agreed deemed representative of views).
Speaking of false tongues and double standards.....
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63010474
Politically correct Plod repeatedly let down vulnerable British white girl abused, trafficked, molested and raped by Pakistani origin gangs.
What heroes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-63055024
DeleteMore politically correct ploddings from the Sussex thought police.
Anyone might think they've got nothing more serious to deal with.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63094341
DeleteThe Rikki Neave case.
Yet more police incompetence.
Or was it deliberate corruption, to make the crime evidence fit the mother?
Old Bill, I am finished with the Cult in Wales. I ceased giving to it the day the GB passed their heretical bill on 6 September 2021. I no longer attend, and I have no intention of doing so.
ReplyDeleteSeymour
Had he bothered to look, Old Willy would have seen that this has already been done on at least two previous AB threads.
DeleteNice to see a cleric speaking out... Even if he is now leaving and taking his giving with him. Why is there still a culture of fear when it comes to speaking out against injustices within the Church in Wales? I stumbled upon the diocese of Llandaff's "conference" on YouTube and once again they have the begging bowl out and are asking clergy to encourage their congregations to give more! Only one brave cleric (a curate!!!) spoke out and asked for support for those needing to reduce their giving due to the cost of living crisis. He was applauded, but nobody else spoke up. I wonder what might be coming his way for daring to speak up?
DeleteLlangwm
Why a culture of fear?
DeleteIt has existed in Llandaff for many decades but
Morgan the Malignant of Llys Ego perfected it and raised it to new heights some twenty five years ago.
Darth --Insidious was a great believer in the 08:55 phone call to unprepared and unsuspecting subjects of his ire, not to mention a summons to his office for an interview without coffee and biscuits.
The current crop of plonkers are merely continuing the modus operandi with which they are most familiar and very comfortable.
Llangwm's curate is most likely to be facing obscurity in the parish of Abercwmscrapheap Minor and left there to rot.
DeleteOr worse, he’ll end up in an affluent area where the prosperity gospel (as preached in the latter part of the diocesan conference) is alive and well. I urge you to listen for yourselves from around 3:50:00 in the YouTube video to see just how the prosperity gospel is being preached and pedalled to the clergy in Llandaff. I wonder how many went back to their parishes and regurgitated this rubbish about giving more to be blessed more.
DeleteLlangwm
I'd already read-between-the-lines Seymour and respect your 'put up or shut up' stance. And as for the others of which there are umpteen? Let's get this out into the open. (Oh and don't answer: I only attend to listen to nice choir music or to be seen wearing my best Sunday suit).
ReplyDeletePushing my point further, pointless simply deserting without writing to your Bishop to explain why.
Old Bill (Ret'd).
I know where you are coming from Old Bill, and I respect that. What we have got to realize is that for some cradle Anglicans - I was never a cradle Anglican - leaving what they have always known is difficult. In fact, to do so will involve a bereavement of sorts. I have friends who do not like where the Cult in Wales has gone, would happily say that the Plankers do not speak for them, but also refuse to be pushed out of their own church by the alphabet people and the GB. Some have withdrawn from actively working in their parishes and even giving financially to their local parish. Two of my friends belong to a church which is about to be closed. They have already made the decision that they will not be going to another church.
DeleteThere is another aspect to this. If people belong to a traditional Catholic or an Evangelical parish, where the Vicar speaks the truth and adheres to sound Christian teaching; people may well have a loyalty to their Vicar. What we are asking them to do is to be disloyal to their Vicar in order to bash the plankers. That really isn't fair.
Like Christopher Frost, people are being tested in all kinds of ways. Without us piling the pressure on, I am sure people - clergy and laity - will come to realize that the charade cannot continue. Over the years, I have come to know a lot of people through attendance at Diocesan and Deanery Conferences, and other provincial events. What I do know is that parishes are struggling, and it is getting harder. The psalmist advises: "Wait for the Lord. His day is near." St Peter tells us that "judgement will begin with the household of faith". The shambles that now makes up the plank of hirelings refuse to be faithful to Christ. They refuse to proclaim his gospel and have adopted the gospel of the world. I believe the Lord's Day is here. The financial crisis we are going through will push parishes and misery areas to the wall. By the time the good Lord has finished, the Cult in Wales will be no more. And as our scriptures end: Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus.
Seymour
Must have missed them Ruth. Oddly enough - and unlike some who might lead rather sad, lonely lives - mine isn't entirely focused on trivia and cheap-shots fired at people I don't even know. But remind me: what was the headcount of previous dip-stick surveys. Are you one of the Great Moaners who then sneaks off to kow-pow? You're obviously avidly engaged in this sort of stuff.
ReplyDeleteOld Bill
I would love to return to the Church in Wales, the church where I was baptised, confirmed and married, where my children were baptised and married and where my grandchildren were baptised but that is never going to happen whilst the false teachers rule.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like Gregory enjoys his doughnuts too much, time for him to move on to a job that he is more qualified for such as quality control at Mr Kipling cakes.
@AB
ReplyDeleteOne wonders, why only restrict your warning to anglican Bishops in Wales?
There are precious few to be trusted anywhere, particularly Australia, Canada, China, England, Hong Kong, India, Scotland or the USA.
Under Francis, the Roman Catholics are becoming increasingly liberal and the Russian Orthodox church is in bed with Putin.
Indeed Episkopos. My initial draft did stray over the border but I decided not to over complicate matters.
DeleteI don’t normally comment on this blog, but I do read it, as AB has good things to say. I just wanted to respond to the point about the RC Church becoming more liberal in the present Pontificate. I don’t think that’s quite right. Certain parts of the Catholic Church are already exceedingly liberal: the Church in Germany is a basket case in point. Empty Churches, full pockets. Certain parts of the church seem determined to follow the Anglican playbook, and those of us who swam the Tiber try to warn of the dire consequences. However, there are many of us who hold the line, more than you might think, and they tend to include younger clergy, which is a sign of hope. In the meantime, however, I think often of my former colleagues in the C of E and the C in W, and pray for them. It must be very hard to be faithful in such circumstances.
DeleteAccording to the latest edition of American Unscripted, 762, the Roman Catholic Bishops of Belgium have voted to follow their liberal brothers in Germany.
DeleteThe swamp of filth is spreading around Europe too.
@ Episkopos:
ReplyDeleteYou make a sound point. Having been brought up within a wholly secular family, nearly sixty years ago I hit that stage in the mid-teens when you often start to take a more critical look at the priorities, values and beliefs which your parents and your wider family tend to hold.
Until that point I'd been as religiously indifferent as the rest of my 'tribe', but idly watching the then 11:00 am televised Sunday service on ITV - there was nothing else whatever on telly on Sunday mornings in those days - it gradually dawned on me that I really knew next to nothing about the Christian faith which I'd previously tended to dismiss, and since something evidently drew folk to Sunday worship, I might perhaps take it seriously enough to try and learn more about it.
Which led me to my encounter with Anglicanism - chosen only because the local Anglican church was by some way the nearest place of worship to where we lived, and my family sort of identified as Anglican even though it was no more than what got put on a form if someone asked you the 'Religion?' question.
I went pretty much in the spirit of the (uniquely Cardiffiuan '"'Nessa" in "Gavin and Stacey', seeking to get an answer to the question 'What's occurrin'? ..." And, though it took time - Anglicanism, at least in my experience back then, wasn't very polished when it came to dealing with an ignorant young enquirer - in the end, I did begin to get the picture.
And I found it did make sense ... well, at least enough sense for me to stick with the road to exploring Christian discipleship.
Only to later witness, within less than two generations, the Anglican church beginning to resile uneasily from the answers which I'd elicited from it in response to my persistent "what's occurrin'?" The photograph at the head of AB's latest post epitomizes one aspect - the most recent one -of that absolute volte-face.
What a depressing read most of this is. Much is legitimate criticism, yet fails to offer Christian hope. Not the best way of following Christ and obeying Scripture. Surely, the best we can do at the present time is support the local church and parish priest where they are remaining faithful?
ReplyDeleteRob
Do you know of one in the Llandaff Diocese Rob?
DeleteI don't.
@Rob:
DeleteFor me at least, it's a strikingly depressing context.
If you've been drawn to change the whole flow of your thinking and believing in your idealistic younger days, only' later on, to witness the institution which convinced you to make that pilgrimage of the soul jack in what it told you and taught you, what else is left to you but a feeling of cynicism and disillusion?
And therein lays the problem Rob. Finding a local parish priest (certainly in the Diocese of Bangor) who has remained faithful to the theology and scripture he/she was taught and to his/her vows at ordination. Most of the honourable ones - like many of us - saw the writing on the wall years ago and quit the C-in-W for parishes in England and one from Bangor even fleeing as far as planet earth could take him: to New Zealand. Anything to put distance between himself and his ordained wife and the Bishop of Bangor.
ReplyDeleteIt is not for AB or 'lay' commentators to 'offer Christian hope', but for our Bishops and senior clergy to demonstrate it. Simply put they've lost the plot even if we assume they realised that God had a 'plot' in the first place. Can there be recovery from this dire wreckage? As with politics and the example of Labour voters when their Jeremy Corbyn was imploding, not before our congregants leave in droves. I have every faith in thinking that even Christ would understand this. Think to the physics of an oilwell in uncontrolled wildfire 'blow-out'. The ONLY solution is to dramatically starve it of oxygen and once extinquished breathe new life into it.
Show me a cleric who'll stand up to Andrew John, debunk the LGBTQ direction of travel, the hypocricy and prostitution of Christianity, and I'll happily attend his or her church. Let's name a couple ... if hand on heart, you can.
Old Bill
Old Bill has it on the nail. Since the brain drain from Bangor more than a decade ago, Bangor is left with clergy of doubtful intellectual, spiritual and pastoral acumen. Virtually none of them left in the diocese have trained in a theological college linked to a distinguished university theology faculty, and the days when you could expect parish clergy to have trained within spitting distance of Oxford and Cambridge is now a distant memory. It's all psychobabble and superficiality from the goons that run St Padarn's where, I am reliably informed, anyone attempting to demand theological rigour and a disciplined pattern of prayer and worship, is given a pretty rough time.
DeleteWhat you must realize, Medwyn, is that the standard of training at St Padarn suits the plankers agenda. If you have theologically inept clergy, they will buy more readily into the thinking processes of the plankers. There is method in their madness. Governing Body last year was evidence of that.
DeleteSeymour
St. Padarn's has only taken over and continued the crap previously provided by St. Michelle's school of social work in Llandaff, driven into the ground financially and theologically by bully boy Bazza's stooge Peter Sedgwick.
DeleteThe Minister for Health and Social Services has announced the appointment of Carl Cooper as the next Chair of Powys Teaching Health Board.
ReplyDeleteMore information is available from the Welsh Government website: https://gov.wales/new-chair-has-been-appointed-powys...
Not accurate information, Carl is the Chair of a Sub Committee. https://en.powys.gov.uk/article/13116/Chair-and-vice-chairs-elected-to-Powys-Regional-Partnership-Board#:~:text=Carl%20Cooper%20has%20been%20elected,during%20a%20recent%20board%20meeting. A much valued person in Powys, I don't understand why you feel it necessary to endlessly persecute him.
DeleteCarl Cooper was announced today. The news is correct. He has resigned from PAVO. Llechryd
DeleteCarl Cooper should indeed be persecuted......., by his conscience!
DeleteIn St. Davids he revealed himself to be a hypocrite, liar, oath breaker and adulterer who wrecked two marriages, simultaneously bringing himself, his Diocese and the Church in Wales into disrepute.
Why is he "valued" in Powys and for what?
It is probably unrealistic to expect a serving parish priest to take on his archbishop, even if he could demolish him intellectually. Be content if you can find a priest and a parish that are attempting to serve God.
ReplyDeleteOn the matter of offering hope, whilst being the particular task of the priesthood, it is not limited to them. It falls to all Christian disciples to do so.
Rob
And on what basis, Rob, do you suggest that it is 'unrealistic to expect a serving priest to take on his archbishop'? Because they are cowards? Because they are weaklings? Because they are too 'grace-and-favour' comfy in their livings? Because for the most part they have failed in other professions so turn to the Church to see out their employment years (look at the average age of new entrant C-in-W 'priests'). Perhaps they simply don't understand the perilous direction the C-in-W is being led.
ReplyDeleteMy old friend and vicar (sadly now deceased) had the balls to confront eyeball-to-eyeball ++Barry Morgan and say in hearing distance of others: "Barry: you are a damn'd liar"! You could almost hear the chorus of cheers. Why, Rob, do you think serving clergy should be exempt from taking their Bishops to task. Other professions do it as a matter of course and there's even legislation to support their 'call outs'.
Let's use AB's blogsite to air sensible comments ... not pathetic apology for failure, pansy-weaknesses and parish clergy cowardism. And as for 'offering hope' by advocating we the Christian 'disciples' can do so; spell out your Plan Rob. What's your Manifesto?
Ad Clerum
I think you are being rather harsh, Ad Clerum. If I had a young family to clothe and educate I’d be very wary of taking on a set of bishops who have been sitting on £100 million pounds, who have no idea what to do with it. With that sort of money they could buy a whole shopping mall, not just a department store. At the same time they have been screwing the last penny of the Parish Share out of small and often elderly congregations on limited pensions. The sort of people who have always treated the clergy and especially bishops with great respect. If you don’t know how vicious the church can be check the story of the Revd Bernard Randall, Chaplain of Trent College, who was reported as a terrorist by his Christian school.
ReplyDeleteI’m with Rob in this situation.
I was a member of one of the Revd Sarah Hildreth’s congregations until she entered into a Civil Partnership. At that point I left the Church in Wales. As a ‘cradle’ Anglican this was an incredibly difficult decision, but a decision I felt called to make. I wrote to tell her why I was doing this and got a brief e mail in reply. I wrote to Bishop Gregory and received an anodyne reply from the Diocesan Secretary. I also wrote to Cardiff to let the finance office know I was stopping my direct debit but didn’t even get an acknowledgement. So much for pastoral care if you don’t toe the party line.
After that I went to church on line well before the pandemic allowed the bishops to close the churches at a time when many of us thought we needed them most.
Apart from not being able to take communion it was quite satisfactory. I could choose my own hymns and listen to some magnificent sermons from all over the world. I can still remember hearing one half hour sermon from America on Elijah which left me disappointed when it finished.
But I missed all my friends in the village church and I had a feeling of being lost. Now we have a new Vicar and a new Mission Area Leader who are both men married to women. They live their faith, preach the Gospel and pray with the Holy Spirit and are always available to explain what love really means. I am back in a revitalised church with a growing congregation. I still don’t give a penny to the CinW. Now that the bishops have announced these millions to spend on God alone knows what, I see no need for anyone else in the congregation to give to the Parish Share, either. Within the church I can ask more pertinent or downright awkward questions than I could from outside the church so I think I’ll stay where I am and risk being thought to support Same Sex Marriage. I don’t and I’m happy to explain my reasons. Sadly, most people prefer not to ask.
Well said Bea.
DeleteFurther to my earlier comment: I heard an appropriate story yesterday, I think from Ian Paul or it might have been Anglican Unscripted. They are both sites that keep me sane:
Delete“If a snake gets into your house you don’t abandon the house you get rid of the snake.”
Hole in one! ⛳
DeleteDepends on the type of snake Bea. Have you ever befallen a Black Mamba in South Africa or the rather (immediate death) yellowbite killers in Borneo? Yeah, the C-in-W local fork-tongued hissy types pose little harm that a good clout with a frying pan can't sort out ... but wait till they breed and invite their more venomous likes to nest within.
ReplyDeleteOld Bill
As I've said before, this blog is becoming less Christian by the day. The Lambeth Conference has articulated what I think the vast majority of Anglicans understand. i.e. we all have our views on what the Bible says or means (forgetting the numbers of translations or commentaries that have been part of our tradition for centuries ) and we can only rejoice in the fact that there is no Magisterium which attempts to put us all in the same box.
ReplyDeleteThese Bishops will soon pass and another controversy will exercise our minds.
But the love of God will endure.
Cymro
You have it back to front Cymro, it is the Church in Wales and the Church of England that are becoming less Christian by the day.
DeleteThe Magisteriun that you say doesn't exist is the Holy Trinity.
Unfortunately, Cymro, it is the Cult in Wales that is becoming less Christian by the day. For two thousand years, the Church has held a particular teaching on marriage and homosexuality which doesn't suit the prevailing winds of modern society. The Church is called to be prophetic. It is meant to be a sentinel warning of the consequences of society's actions. The plankers have capitulated and have become conformed to the world, rather than going and transforming the world, which is what they are meant to do, as are all Christians.
DeleteThe restlessness which is evident on this blog about the practices of the Cult in Wales has come about because the sheep no longer hear the Shepherd's voice from those who claim to be our shepherds. Instead, we hear the voice of hirelings who care nothing for the sheep. They are happy for the sheep to run over the cliff, or to be attacked by wolves. They are more concerned about their own safety. The hirelings have invited Satan into the very heart of Christ's Church, and you seem to think that that is OK. With apologists like you, why should Satan fear - his work is done.
As for a Magisterium, I personally think it is a shame that there isn't one within the Anglican Church. At least Justin Welby would have a measure by which to deal with the wayward heretics. Simply burying one's head in the sand is no solution.
As for "we all have our views on what the Bible says", I do not have a view on what the Bible says. Jesus stated quite clearly: "Have you never read that from the beginning the Creator made them male and female? For this reason, a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves to his wife and the two become one flesh. It follows that they are no longer two individuals, they are one flesh. Those whom God has joined together; humanity must not separate." The Ecumenical Councils of the Church asserted that in Jesus the human and divine natures were fused together. There is no divisibility. The Jesus who spoke those words was God incarnate. For the Governing Body and the plankers to think that they know better than God is sheer arrogance. It was the same arrogance that got Satan thrown out of heaven.
Seymour
The silver lining to this cloud of doom is that fewer and fewer people are listening to, donating to and following, the plonkers into the midden of filth they are creating on their highway to hell.
DeleteFollowing Covid deaths, lockdowns, DodoJo's twittering, Randy Pandy's gurning in Bangor Cathedral, Offa's trench appointing lesbians as Archdeaconesses in Gwent, Caiaphas' bullying and gay Dean appointments, Gregory's lesbian wedding rite along with the cost of living crisis, by now I seriously doubt there are more than ten thousand pew sitters left in the entire Principality.
Let us hope that number dwindles to zero as quickly as possible.
@Cymro
DeleteSince the vast majority of anglicans are elsewhere in the world and not the UK, by what means have you come by your thought concerning what their understanding and views on the Bible?
Bewildered
It has always been case that if it were not for gay clergy the ministry of the Church in Wales would grind to a halt. That is especially so within the anglo-catholic wing of the church so dear to many on here. It's just that these days clergy are more open and honest about their sexuality and, to that extent, in faithful relationships. We all know clergy who have hidden their sexuality - some of them in straight marriages (still a few about) - and that inevitably leads to disrepute, dishonesty and disaster.
ReplyDeleteDD
Codswallop.
DeleteClergy sexuality is irrelevant.
Until they get married (in the tradition of the Church, to a woman) they should all be chaste, just as they preach to us that sex before and out of Holy Matrimony is a sin.
God does not bless sin.
You seem to confuse two issues here, DD. You are talking about homosexuality. That is one issue. The other issue is same sex marriage. They are two entirely different subjects. The plankers' smoke and mirrors escapades have done their work.
DeleteThe Christian Church has never allowed same sex marriage until the apostates changed here in Wales that on 6 September 2021. The Church's teaching on homosexuality has been that such persons (and especially those in ministry) should be celibate. Hence, Jeffrey John's statement on being nominated as Bishop of Reading.
Seymour
Seymour, I do need to correct you. The CinW authorised the 'blessing' of same sex marriages in September 2021. It did not authorise same sex marriages in Church. I know that doesn't make any theological sense, 'how can you bless marriages that the church does not recognise?' - but we all know that theology is not the bench's strong suit is it?
DeleteWHAMAB
I stand corrected. I don't have a clue what I am talking about and you are all much superior intellects than I. My apologies for sharing my thoughts.
DeleteDD
Than me.
Delete@ WHAMAB:
DeleteI always understood that in Holy Matrimony the theology was that the couple marrying administered the sacrament to one another, and that the role of the presiding priest was just to bless, in the name of the Lord, the union created by their exchange of vows. And then, if there's to be a nuptial mass, to preside at that in the customary way.
So exactly how can you have another 'tier' of blessing which doesn't accord with, and stands separate from, the original theology? It makes no sense.
I maintain that 'I' , standing for I do, does not need altering to 'me' as in the above, although it is more conversational. See Simon Heffer's bools on grammar.
DeleteRob
Quite right, Rob. “I” was perfectly correct. The dyslexic was just being a smart Alec, which was especially unfortunate as the supposed correction was wrong.
DeleteRB
Any clergy who have, or are, hiding their homosexuality "in straight marriages" must have taken vows of holy matrimony entered their marriage on false pretences and living a lie.
DeleteAnyone entering knowingly into such long term dishonesty is hardly the type of individual who should have ever been trusted with the care of souls.
😂 😂
DeleteMe disagree.
Much superior you not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63130685
DeleteThe latest Cult in Wales fad.
Pontypridd priestess dresses up as Kylo Ren.
According to the most recent Census results, there are more Jedi Knights in Wales than there are members of the Cult in Wales. 😂 😂
DeleteThis particular priestess is, by all accounts, a nasty peice of work. In her training parish, I am told that the diocese spent a fortune on bringing in a team of 'reconcillors' to try and heal a rift between her and some parishioners who she had upset. The money was ill-spent, as apparently, Miss Haughty would not back down.
DeleteContented of Cardiff.
As a result of a census prank, I seem to recall that more Jedi Knights registered in 2011 than Christians, resulting in the Government being obliged to officially record them as a new religion. 😂
DeleteGreat minds think alike.
Delete🤣
@DD
DeleteYou didn't "share" your "thoughts".
You made a series of statements, spouting them as though they were facts.
That you're unable to grasp the distinction tells us all we need to know.
Well said. Let's let go of the hypocrisy
ReplyDeleteCymro.
Not on topic I know but I must share this typo. A Roman Catholic bishop has announced plans to "make decibels of all nations"! Shouting it from the housetops?
ReplyDeleteThat's superb! Nice to have a bit of light relief ...
DeleteIs that what's known as dropping a clanger?
DeleteSpeaking of the Anglican episcopate the late Dom Gregory Dix pointed out that the sign of a bishop was a crook and that of an archbishop a double cross.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see that comment. Of course, the Crook is also carried by an Abbot and Abbess. An Archbishop also carries a crook and may carry his Metropolitical cross. The + is a sign of Episcopal Consecration. An Archbishop is not consecrated twice.
ReplyDeleteUnison Off.
They're installed twice though, which is close enough.
DeleteIf I remember rightly you will find the comment in Hugh Ross Williamson "The Walled Garden".
ReplyDeleteSome years ago there was diocesan secretary who used to describe himself as the crook on the Bishops staff!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63103347
ReplyDeleteAnne "Dire", first female Bishop in Scotland, resuspended over bullying allegations.
A couple of quite important lessons from my old worshipping diocese of Aberdeen and Orkney and the demise of Rt Rev Anne Dyer. Lessons which might be urgently learned by clergy of the Church-in-Wales.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, it was by the sheer 'balls' and unified stance of clergy within the diocese that their bishop was called to task and eventually ousted (not in the case of LGBTQ types: Outed). Oh would our weakling clergy rally round and so similar in Wales rather than simply whinge to each other. Scotland's clergy spoke out and their courage rewarded by ears that listened. Umpteen AB blogger have poo-poo'd me for raising this weakness before saying: 'oh bless them, they're in no position to complain in fear of being bullied'. Well that's just the point.
And the second welcomed aspect of the Scottish saga is that when the complaints were raised (by clergy), the examination of facts was devolved to a complete outsider, the retired Moderator of the Church of Scotland, Prof. Iain Torrance ... not to be judged from within by, for instance, some sychophant Barry-loving QC lawyer or the Bench itself (or even worse, gormless Andrew John). No. They called in an outsider from a different denomination and his edict was swift and so far as one can tell, binding.
Good for the Aberdonians. We have a lot to learn.
Ad Clerum
You're joking right?
DeleteIf the "edict" was swift and binding, how is Dire still in post?
I understood the recommendation was for her to be kicked out without delay.
Instead, the Scottish plonkers have closed ranks and done just about everything they can to keep her in post. Even the latest vote to resuspend her was only just carried by a 3-2 majority!
It's a replay of the DodoJo and Caiaphas scandals in Wales.
I won't believe otherwise until Dire's departure (without a payoff and gagging clause) has been announced and confirmed.
Her retaliation, of claims that she herself has been bullied, is a move right out of the Capon's playbook. Let's hope it proves to be just as unsuccessful.
In the meantime, she's suspended on full pay and her next move is predicted to be going on long term sick leave with "work related stress".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63144354
ReplyDeleteChurch of England abuse cases in hundreds
Cases of abuse of vulnerable adults and children by living Anglican clergy, officials and volunteers run to several hundred, says the church.
Nearly 400 new cases need further assessment, and in some cases further action, of which nearly 200 relate to children, a review has found.
Some of the cases identified date back many years.
The prevailing culture has always been to protect the reputation of the Church and to hell with the victims.
DeleteMassive compensation payments are long overdue, plus interest.
Ecclesiastical Insurance shares have just tanked on that news.
Delete🤣 🤣 🤣
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York for the last 75 years or so should be utterly ashamed and hung out to dry.
DeleteOr will they all plead ignorance?
The Church has always taken advantage of the weak, the gullible and the malleable.
DeleteThe remarkable aspect of the whole scandal is that the World has taken so long to wake up to the reality.
All religions should be banned for the same reasons.
How ashamed should you be for this entire post. Hateful.
ReplyDeleteDD
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-63392252
ReplyDeleteNo longer just the BBC plugging their usual favourite agenda.
Now the Royal Mint has succumbed to the queering propaganda.
That's certainly one coin I shall be refusing to accept in change.
DeleteThe Cults in Wales and England will lap them up with gay abandon.
Delete