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| The Bench of Bishops. From left: Bishop June Osborne, Bishop Joanna Penberthy, Bishop John Lomas, Bishop Andy John, Bishop Gregory Cameron and Bishop Cherry . Source: Church in Wales |
Following the return to work from sick leave on 1 November of the bishop of St Davids and the confirmation in Sacred Synod on 22 November of the Archdeacon of Wrexham, John Lomas, as bishop of Swansea and Brecon, the Church in Wales moves to the next scene of their ecclesiastical farce, the election of the next archbishop of Wales followed by the early retirement of the bishop of St Davids if any semblance of decency remains in the Church in Wales.
What a choice! Apart from the new bishop of Swansea and Brecon none of the candidates would normally have a chance of being elected Archbishop based on performance and beliefs.
But this is the Church in Wales. Assuming there are no skeletons in the cupboard bishop Lomas may be the only bishop untainted by secularism.
However, the bench are frequently quoted as being of a 'single mind' on important issues so presumably the bishops have satisfied themselves that they can count on the support of the latest addition, thus perpetuating the rot.
In October 2010 I wrote in Deception in the church: 'Ali Bari and his band are out to rob traditionalists of their heritage'. Faithful Anglicans have simply been dumped. Deprived of fellowship and spiritual wellbeing. Instead their bishops promote secular causes under the mantra, Jesus loves me.
Around the same time WalesOnline reported: "Between 2011 and 2012, the number of adults attending Church in Wales Sunday services fell by 5%, from 33,783 to 32,171."
All tarred with the same brush, the new archbishop might as well be appointed using a silver bodkin in a blindfold pricking ceremony saving the electoral college much time and money.
The Holy Ghost must be in deep despair.
ReplyDeleteImagine your raw materials being limited to that lot!
Indeed, Salva nos, indeed.
DeleteThe fiftieth anniversary of the death of Archbishop A. Edwin Morris passed us by only a month ago.
He was critical of the Wolfenden Commission's findings of 1958 on the issue of homosexuality, viewing it "as a respectably-sponsored attempt to make homosexual conduct in private a tolerated activity, as if such behaviour had no evil consequences for the community."
The possibility of a lesbian Archbishop in Wales a mere fifty years after his death will have him spinning in his grave.
Comparing the six above with their predecessors of Morris' era is truly terrifying.
Now that's certainly a blast from the past and before even my days.
DeleteBarry Morgan isn't fit to clean the soles of Edwin Morris' shoes.
How much the Church in Wales is crying out for an Archbishop of his calibre.
As for the six pretenders above, in Morris' day I doubt even one of them would have even received serious consideration for ordination on their abilities, never mind their sex or sexuality.
Do not be deceived, the immoral, the adulterers, homosexuals, thieves..... will not inherit the kingdom of God.
ReplyDelete1.Corinthians 10
Wick
I doubt you will either Wick ... or if you do, I'd prefer to be in the other place.
DeleteRuthy
I rather think you're guaranteed that.
DeleteCondemned by untRuthy for quoting the New Testament?
DeleteSays it all.
Really.
And if untRuthy and his ilk believe they're going to Heaven, I'd rather be in the other place.
The company will be better.
Ruthy, he simply quoted a Bible verse without comment or anything. If your choice is hell over being around people who share scripture, I think you may get your wish. You’ve shown your true colours here.
DeleteAJ
Precisely AJ.
DeleteFor illiberal liberals, even quoting scripture to them should be made a hate crime, particularly when the scripture doesn't tally with their own distorted views.
Mind Police, they live among us.
Rejoiced at hearing on the welsh news this evening that the Minister of Social Justice, Jane Hutt, proposes
ReplyDeletemisogyny as a hate crime. I would so like to see this shameful site closed down - it's pure hate, hate, hate. The author of this site should be entirely ashamed of the hate he has encouraged on this site from day one. There is nothing of Christ on this site.
Ruthy
Very judgmental of you Ruthy. To suggest this site is criminal is very disturbing, you must believe everyone who doesn't agree with your view of Christianity should be locked up. Not believing in female orders is not misogyny by definition, nor is not believing in LGBT affirmation homophobia.
DeleteNo wonder people worry about freedom of speech with your veiled threats. If this site triggers you so much, just don't come back is my suggestion. You may want to think how Christlike it was to judge Wick by suggesting he would be damned for merely quoting Scripture.
WHAMAB
@ Ruthy:
DeleteI think that it was the late esteemed anglo-catholic scholar Dr Eric Maskell who, rather a long time ago now, maintained that bad ideas are only effectively countered by better ideas.
With the implication that suppression doesn't achieve the goal.
Which
By all means make mysogeny a hate crime but only on the basis that myssndry is also included.
DeleteSauce for the Goose and the Gander etc.
How typical, untRuthy.
DeleteAnother illiberal liberal that can't stand anyone that share your point of view and insists on them being "cancelled".
Nah, some things are just wrong and this is one of them. Sooner it becomes law the better.
DeleteRuthy
You can stick your law where the Sun doesn't shine cupcake.
DeleteYou can't stop me thinking for myself.
Hate crime; it depends how you interpret and apply it. Does it include strong disagreement with particular women? Is that hatred or simply taking a different viewpoint?
DeleteThe Minister concerned is sometimes seen in churches.
Rob
"The Minister concerned is sometimes seen in churches." Especially at feminist celebrations Rob. See for example
Deletehttps://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/2017/01/its-such-laugh-being-bench-sitter.html
The Minister can be seen in the background of one of the photos having a friendly chat with the then archbishop, Barry Morgan.
As for hate crime and disagreement, the bishop of St Davids has made it clear that she regards disagreeing with her as discrimination:
https://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-hour-has-come.html
Didn't she discriminate against all Tories, including those she has never even met?
DeleteIf something needs to be made a crime it's surely Episcopal hypocrisy.
It's clear you're a Tory Ruth - clear as day cupcake.
DeleteRuthy
As usual untRuthy you couldn't be more wrong.
DeleteFor someone who claims to dislike AB's blog as much as you do, it's queer just how much time you spend on it.
Fleeting passerby - here to pour scorn on the hatred and bile to be found here so that those who drop by know that the views of this blog are a sad and mischievous minority.
DeleteRuthy
A Tory I am certainly not untRuthy and as has so often been the case you're just making a fool of yourself.
DeleteMischievous, possibly?
Too close to the truth to be embarrassing to Capon, Caiaphas and the RB, definitely.
Hurrah for Ancient Briton.
Nah - pure hateful misogyny. Nothing of Christ here. Nothing.
ReplyDeleteRuthy.
How would you know?
Delete+Joanna, is that you?
DeleteAJ
AJ what makes you think it's bishop of st. David's?
DeleteSBG
She holds the same views and Jo’s thumbs must surely be itching and looking for an outlet after these months of no twitter!
DeleteAJ
PP. Had my Church Times this morning. Unfortunately, the Llandaff matter is headline news! What a dark day for CiW.
ReplyDeleteMy secret agent skills have served me well again this week, as I bring you another page from a bishop of St Davids' diary. Seymour
ReplyDeleteDear Diary,
I am coming to the end of week four – and I’m still here. I have notified my clergy that when I visit parishes, the organist is to play as the introit music, “We shall not, we shall not be moved”. That should get the message across. Last Monday, some yokels turned up at Llys Esgob with pitch forks, but I had already left for the Sacred Synod, and a few choice words in Welsh from my secretary sent them scurrying back to Ceredigion.
I am furious with Adrian. He has taken my iphone off me and hidden it. While he was out last week, I scoured the house trying to find it, but it was nowhere to be seen. I broached the subject with him last Saturday morning, only for him to tell me that he had sent it to a charity working with orphans in Africa. I insisted that I needed a mobile phone. Sacred Synod was approaching on Monday, and I could not be left incommunicado. He was adamant that he was not going to provide me with another mobile phone – “for my own good” according to him. He then had the audacity to tell me that wives should be subject to their husbands. Fat chance of that, I thought! He then ordered me to hand over my credit and debit cards, and he cut them up in front of me. “There,” he said, “That makes sure that you will not get another mobile phone.”
The man is an idiot. Has he not heard that bishops have discretionary funds? I nipped in the office, and at my discretion, awarded myself £400 and a trip to the Carphone Warehouse. I am now the proud owner of an Apple iphone SE (64GB). What is more, dear Diary, I am back on Twitter. I have taken a leaf out of Ancient Briton’s contributors’ books and adopted a new handle for myself. It is so devious that no-one will ever work out it is me. I now go by the name @JonahLegg. So far this week, I have trolled Boris Johnson, Priti Patel, and Simon Hart, and they are none the wiser. I will get Comrade Jeremy into Downing Street; if it is the last thing I do. I am expecting a handsome reward for my efforts. I am thinking of something like ambassador to the Maldives. Then I can tell this tin pot Diocese exactly what I think of it and jet off to the sun. In a few quieter moments this week, I am going to start trolling Andy and Greggers; and the Church in Wales Twitter page. It is high time we had a female Archbishop, and I know just the woman for the job. My project will be called Operation Top Cat. By 7 December, all power will be mine.
Sacred Synod, last Monday, was amusing. Andy was saying how fortunate it was that the next bishop for Swansea and Brecon is also called John. As we get to our dotage it saves us having to remember a new name. I am going to call this one Sioni Bach; as opposed to Big Bad John who has just retired. I don’t want to sound bitter about not being translated to Brecon, but I must ask, “Can anything good come out of St Asaph Diocese?” I think we will just have to wait and see.
It was good though, to catch up with the gang. Chezzer brought her copy of Pink News with her. It had a lovely photo of Greggers conducting the marriage blessing. Unfortunately, from where the photographer took the photo, it looked as if Greggers was about to bite off the head of Father Lee Taylor. Andy quipped, a bit bitchily if you ask me, “Whenever we see a photo of you, Greg, you’re always eating!”
Bishop's diary, page 2
ReplyDeleteChezzer was telling us that the tea stalls in Monmouth are a rip-roaring success. They have expanded to Indian tea varieties, along with the Chinese ones, and the Diocesan budget has more than balanced. I might start trolling Chezzer too. This might be a ploy on her part for the archbishop’s post. She is so grateful for Charity B’Kumza’s thick Nigerian accent though. If she had understood what she said initially, this twist of fortune would never have come about. At Senior Staff Meeting, they decided to close all the failing churches in the Diocese and turn them into tea shops instead. To compensate for the loss of services, parishioners will be able to collect pre-consecrated wafers at their local tea shop and join in the Eucharist from the Cathedral via Facebook in the comfort of their own homes.
Chezzer also plans to reduce the number of parish clergy, amalgamate ministry areas, and appoint two new Archdeacons. One will be the Archdeacon for Tea Shops, who will be charged with maintaining high standards and productivity. S/he will be expected to visit the tea plantations in China and India to check on staff welfare and watch the plants grow. The other archdeacon will be Archdeacon for the Perfectly Pointless. S/he will spend all day doing nothing exceptional – so no change there in the archidiaconal scheme of things. Between ourselves, dear Diary, I think Chezzer is jealous that I have got four archdeacons and she has only got three! We can all play those games. I might just appoint another three archdeacons, simply because I can! That should make the plebs in the pews wince.
Being on this phased return to work has made think about holidays work. I have decided that 2023 is going to be the Year of the Natural World in our Diocese. To prepare the clergy for this momentous event, I have decided that we need a Clergy School. Archdeacon Paul suggested that we hold Clergy School at the Eden Project – the stupid boy. I thought it better that we experienced the natural world in all its glory. The result is that we are either going to Ecuador with a visit to the Galapagos Islands; or we are going on safari in Kenya. The chair of the Diocesan Board of Finance is checking out the figures for me. After the year I have had, I need something to look forward to. The little minx in me can’t wait to share the news with Juno. This will pale her little excursion to Spain into insignificance.
Oh well, lets get back to my colouring books. I have done more than enough for this week. I’m getting good at colouring. I can even keep to colouring in between the lines now!
Priceless.
Delete🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Were you on the Board of the Llandaffchester Chronicles Seymour?
Childish drivel. The sad thing is the author probably thinks it's highly amusing and very clever. Sad. Priceless? Hardly, wasted effort.
DeleteDrivel
Get over yourself, get a sense of humour and get a sense of perspective.
DeleteMoves are afoot to remove Joanna Penberthy from her position as bishop of St Davids. It would spare her pain if she chose to go herself.
ReplyDeleteSorry to be mysterious but watch this space.
Rob
Hallelujah! Heard wonderful news this morning after church. The rector took me aside and told me that clergy in St Davids diocese were preparing a motion of no confidence in Jojo the miso-tory-ist. Great news if something comes of it. As one of her clergy remarked: "This nonsense just can't go on. Her arrogance is astounding"
ReplyDeleteGlad tidings for the first Sunday in Advent.
DeleteMy only question is why has it taken so long?
She needs to be given the order of the boot in the backside before her malign influence can play any role in the selection of the next Archbishop.
Can't happen soon enough.
DeleteA fitting end to Barry Morgan's first Bishopesse in Wales experiment to match that of his first Deanesse in Llandaff.
Such is her arrogance, she might well be plotting to become the next Archbishop in Wales.
DeleteA mysandrist Tory-hating LGBTQIA-promoting Cobynista leading the Cult in Wales would sound the death knell.
The clergy in St. Davids know how to dethrone an unwanted Bishop, having succeeded in disposing of Carl Cooper following the randy Mandy Chaplain scandal, so it should come as no surprise if they bring their expertise to bear on DodoJo and good luck to them.
DeleteThe question is, as the second most senior cleric in the Llandaff Diocese, why Gerwhine hasn't called for his peers to support him in signing a letter of no confidence in Caiaphas?
After all, there's more than one way to skin a cat, as we know from Peggy the Pilate.
If St. David's and Monmouth can get rid of unwanted Bishops, why can't Llandaff.
Unless the Capon has alienated his peers as well as Caiaphas and has zero support.
Unless every Parish priest has been allowed to dip into the Parish funds to the tune of £69k, I doubt the antiques dealing dud would get a single other signature to add to any letter of no confidence.
DeleteDon't forget, we're talking about the one who couldn't organise a Rum Pansy in the Deanery without the help of Mr Toad.
Gerwhine should expect to receive the full support of every Vicar in the Diocese who's had an Aga installed since 2016.
DeleteNo doubt he'll be crushed in the rush to the Deanery front door.
@Ruth Good luck with That Each Deanery is the Ministry Area now and She appointed all Ministry Area Leaders or Area Deans.
DeleteHB
Well, Good for the bench. They sure seem like a jolly bunch of bishops! I hope their 'god' is well pleased.
Delete
Delete@HB
Did you not notice tongue firmly in cheek?
No - forked but not cheeked.
DeleteRuthy
My learning from the Carl fiasco:
Delete1) Don’t get caught, especially by a clergy wife you royally p****d off.
2) Tell Aunty Barry the truth - the WHOLE truth, otherwise how can he have one over on you and make the problem go away.
3) When you do come clean to Aunty Barry, remember that it wasn’t the original “sin” that cost you your hat - it was being economical with the truth with Aunty Barry.
Others may wish to ponder that given current goings on at all levels.
DewiResistance
The only two means of surviving the bully boy --Bazza reign of terror was either one, not to let him find any dirt on you at all (ever !) or two, to have a lot more dirt on him than he had on you.
DeleteI have often wondered how Bonaparte got away with everything he did while Dean of Llandaff even as a former best chum of --Bazza's (but considerably sharper and brighter than the dark --Lord) I am convinced it was the latter of the two methods.
If the clergy of the Diocese of St. David's turn on their bishop after (a) she has apologised and (b) spent months away from work with illness, then there is no hope is there. We preach a message of reconciliation - let's live it and may the clergy of the Diocese of St. David's model it.
ReplyDeleteSt.David.Cleric
I understood her to have been away from work with shame and embarrassment.
DeleteTypical of a bully, she can dish it out aplenty but if someone gives her a dose of her own medicine she caves in very quickly.
I sense no sincere contrition or even a hint of her doing the right thing and resigning, merely desperation to cling onto her salary and brazen it out.
As so many said at the time of her appointment by Barry Morgan, she never was the best man for the job.
Where has she apologised? All that has been said is that she’s been off on the sick. A bishop is a symbol of unity to the faithful - regrettably, I doubt she’ll ever be able to claim that again. For her own sake, it would be better to go, pop back up in England after some time to reflect and start again.
DeleteDewiResistance
Replying to someone who was tweeting that they would no longer support the conservatives, Joanna tweeted, "That you ever supported the Tories says everything we need to know about you."
ReplyDeleteHow’s that for a message of reconciliation? People should forgive her, but also we should recognise that the consequence of her actions is that she has shown herself not to be suitable for the role of bishop. This is an extreme example, but if someone is convicted of paedophilia, serves their jail time and then wants to come and serve in your church’s Sunday school when released, you wouldn’t let them. You forgive them for what they did, but you recognise that their past actions demonstrate that this is not a suitable role for them.
AJ
I think we can forgive her that Tweet and move on from it - well, I can for one.
DeleteSt.David.Cleric
Well you have her to work in your Parish pal.
DeleteAs your curate.
She really needs to go back to basics.
Then you can be responsible for amending her behaviour and her attitude.
Did you sign the letter of no confidence in Carl Cooper after the randy Mandy affair?
Would you trust him with your wife or daughter?
St. David.Cleric, the Diocese of St Davids (not St David's) has already moved on from the bishop's Dear John Letter fiasco. How many more times?
DeleteAt Joanna Penberthy's election archbishop Barry Morgan said, "Suitability, character, gifts - that was why Joanna was elected as Bishop." Wrong, wrong, wrong.
I'm sorry, but she has no remorse in her at all. After coming back from sick leave, the first thing she practically did was to go to a climate protest in Cardiff Bay to be interviewed by the BBC rather than address and make amends with her clergy. Bishop? No. Politician wannabe? More like it.
DeleteThere were many other tweets, apparently. She simply lacks credibilith now. Sure!y you see that, St Davids cleric?
ReplyDeleteAnother St Davids cleric
Anyone else notice that after UnTruthy was 'outed' as (allegedly) +Joanna, there have been no more messages from UnTruthy, but the ones from "St.David.Cleric" started?
DeleteYou spoke too soon Ed, see above.
DeleteJust veering off track, as we've just celebrated St. Andrew's day. How many folk realise that, what we know as St.David's cathedral, is officially The Cathedral Church of St. Andrew and St.David. Interesting !
ReplyDeleteContented of Cardiff
I didn't know that. But, as my Other Half is Scottish, we consumed Haggis, Neeps, Tatties and Irn-Bru for dinner.
DeleteAnd, presumably, toasted the First Minister, our beloved Nicoleta?
DeleteRob
If only she was toasted.
DeleteNow that WOULD be worth celebrating.
🤣
No toasts were offered. But, were she living in Scotland, my wife would probably vote SNP.
DeleteBest move there ASAP then.
DeleteWe'd hate your missus to miss out on the glorious revolution.
That is why the beautiful icons at the Shrine of St. David in the cathedral include St. Andrew. It's good to keep in with the early apostles.
ReplyDeleteThe only clergy in St. Davids who seems to be keeping in touch with the early Apostles is Rev Maynard in Angle.
DeletePP. Adding to the plot, perhaps a little compassion and forgiveness towards +J. After all we have on some occasions fallen short. She has apologised, her clergy don't seem in revolt, let's see if she remains contrait. After all she could be our new AB it's apparently not a foregone conclusion, that the office will be held by a man this time.
ReplyDeleteYes compassion please
DeleteRuthy
She will never be my Bishopette or Archbishopette.
DeleteNever, never, never trust her.
Are you still here untRuthy?
DeleteDon't you have somewhere better to be rather than mixing with we mysoginists, homophobes, transphobes, and any other ophobes you care to invent?
Please do not speak for me or the clergy of St Davids PP - 'her clergy don't seem in revolt'. Then why is the questionnaire circulating?
DeleteRob
More twaddle again PP?
DeleteCompassion Ruthy? Like that shown to those of a different political persuasion. To parish priests who just wanted to remain at the Altar after years of service in their parishes. To 'traditionalists' forced out to accommodate the feminist onslaught. Grow up.
DeleteIs there any chance that the questionnaire to which you refer could appear here Rob?
DeleteThe Capon might be grateful for a bit of assistance in his attempt to dethrone Caiaphas in Llandaff.
I suspect Martin Shipton would also be interested in developments.
But credibility always, not sentimental slush from appeasers.
ReplyDeleteDom
PP. Wow, I was not expecting that tense outbursts. My source in St Davids, tells me, that the Lord Bishop is not going anywhere, and that a large number of clergy are supporting her. But, what happens next is entirely in the hands of the Diocesan Conference who may or may not call a special meeting, which is within the legal constitutional process of CiW. At which point I am sure will make an appropriate decision.
ReplyDeleteBut, in the meantime,it's possible she will continue to be the Bishop.
The male/female argument has its justification and the fact we have women in Holy Orders, is for some a hard pill to swallow, for others, welcome.
Whatever view we have, the big picture has to be Christ.
The only clergy who might be "supporting" her will only be the usual supine ar*e kissers and sycophants.
DeleteAs for the notion of DodoJo being capable of making "an appropriate decision", if she was, she'd have gone months ago and there would be no need for any intervention by any "Diocesan Conference".
Likewise, if she understood "the big picture has to be Christ" she'd have kept her big mouth shut and her tweeted opinions to herself.
The Roman Catholic Archbishop of Paris has resigned in order to safeguard the unity of his Archdiocese. In an interview following his resignation, the Most Reverend Michel Aupetit said, “This is not because of what I should or should not have done in the past — otherwise I would have left a long time ago — but to avoid division, if I myself am a source of division.” When we look at him and then look at St Davids and Llandaff Dioceses, where their bishops are clinging on to their £47k stipends, with no regard for unity and decency; does not the Archbishop of Paris put the Welsh hirelings into the pale.
ReplyDeleteSeymour
Here's the link to the story.
Deletehttps://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Paris-archbishop-who-had-ambiguous-relationship-16668455.php
Rather than avoiding being sources of division, the Welsh plank sitters appear to revel in being so.
PP. @Cymru'r Groes.
ReplyDeleteWhen I referred to clergy in the Diocese, those good Clerks in Holy Orders, are not under the offensive label you place them. But, are able to weight up their decision not to take part in the scrum of opinion raging but, get on with their ministries.
I was not saying the +Johanna would/should "make an appropriate decision"; but, the Diocesan Conference would do so.
And "the big picture" PP?
DeleteVery sorry to see Margaret Hodge is stepping down from politics.
ReplyDeleteIf only DodoJo had the same sense of responsibility.
It is said in one of these posts that one of the first things that The Ordinary of the diocese of St. David's did on return from her extended sick leave, was to travel to Cardiff Bay for a climate change gathering. This turned my attention to the expenses of our bishops, what they claim for and who checks these claims ? I, for one would be annoyed If she claimed for travel and subsistence for this particular junket.
ReplyDeleteWe're never going to find out as that would likely be concealed under the unaudited "discretionary" spending heading.
DeleteLook on the bright side, Merthyr Organist, while she's in Cardiff she can[t be up to mischief here in St Davids. How about sending the 'nuclear physicist' on a sabbatical to the antarctic to study the effects of episcopal hot air on melting ice flows? And let the sabbatical last seven whole years!
DeleteI would only give my backing to such a sabbatical on one condition, Teilo - she took the rest of the plank sitters with her. Having said that, the way the plank sitters of Wales spout hot air, there wouldn't be any Antarctic left after seven years and the rest of the planet would have drowned as a result of rising sea levels.
DeleteSeymour
Having to listen to them spouting their hot air and drivel is a farworse fate than drowning Seymour.
Delete@Teilo
DeleteThere's a bright side?
We don't want her in Cardiff either, we've enough problems of our own with Caiaphas and the antiques dealing dud in the Deanery thanks all the same.
PP. On the CiW website. The election forthcoming, notes that 6 bishops are candidates for AB. How can that work if JunO is basically about to hit the age limit. It will be an interesting few days
ReplyDeleteJunO is the subject of “a case to answer” - no way the college will elect her Archbishop. The only candidate without baggage is the wonderful +Cherry.
DeleteOpinionOnly
Don't be absurd, the only one without baggage is Swansea & Brecon.
DeleteMore like DaftOpinionOnly. Cherry is in a sexually immoral relationship and would be disqualified from being a member of clergy at all if the Church in Wales took scripture seriously. That’s not a homophobic comment by the way, I say the same of bishop Andy.
DeleteAJ
Careful AJ, untRuthy will invent a new word to hurl at you.
DeleteSome -ist, -ism or -phobic.
Only last week I discovered that Transist is apparently now a word.
And there was silly old me thinking it was a van manufactured by Ford.
What a total farce - there should be a proper interview panel and any one of the six of them should simply apply. I’d want to know their vision and what they think they would bring to the post. I’d have lay people on the panel only - and nobody who was a canon lawyer or in any way “titled”. The system is broken.
ReplyDeleteRuthy
Would it just be simpler to become a third province within the Church of England and allow the appointments committee to recommend to the Queen to appoint
DeleteJ
The "system" has always been broken untRuthy, where have you been since 1920?
DeleteHow would your suggestion deal with the possibility that none of the six "applied" for the position?
Given the dismal quality of the current crop of plank sitters, exactly what "vision" would you anticipate being offered?
More "sneak-a-peek", "Seven sacred spaces", "2020 Vision", another £10 million "Evangelism" fund, or maybe another "Year of Pilgrimage"?
And what role for the Holy Ghost in your proposal?
Naturally, any input from the Holy Ghost will be entirely superfluous when people of untRuthy's calibre will be running the show.
DeleteI'll not be running any show, cupcake. But if I did you'd be very welcome. You'd have to be nice though. None of your nonsense please - life literally is too short to be caught up and be bothered by the nonsense that seems to rattle you lot.
DeleteUnRuthy
So why do you spend so much of your time here with us?
DeleteHelps to know the nonsense we’re up against. Hopefully you’re all nicer than your views here and more charitable in real life.
DeleteRuthy
Crikey no …. That system is even more broke!!!!! non-ordained,ordinary parish folk on a panel would do a good job. No QCs or the like … just down to earth folk like me.
ReplyDeleteRuthy
To summarise.
DeleteDo away with the existing dysfunctional system and the sycophants that take part in it it, only to replace it with a new dysfunctional system organised and populated by the self-righteous.
How novel untRuthy.
DeleteUntRuthy:
"I am the humblest and most 'down to earth' person I know in my Church, and I'm very proud of that fact."
I’m not really sure who people think the lay members of the college are. They are ordinary people from the congregations of our Parishes!!!
DeleteLlechryd
Hand picked to provide the required outcome.
DeleteWhy the need for an oath of secrecy?
Which is often broken by those who don't get their desired outcome anyway, e.g., the recent Llandaff and Jeffery John electoral college scandals.
Whatever the process, it should be transparent and open to public scrutiny.
Why not, what is being hidden?
@Llechryd
DeleteI'm really not sure either.
Perhaps the psychologically insecure?
99.99% of ordinary people in Wales have grown up and don't believe in your invisible imaginary friend and have better things to do with their time and money.
No. Definitely not hand picked!
DeleteLlechryd
Really?
DeleteHow gullible are you?
Do you really believe that DodoJo got St. Davids over all the other senior clergymen in Wales because she was the best man for the job? Do you really believe byzantine --Barry left that one to chance, after all his years promoting the cause of Bishopesses and just before his retirement too?
Did you not read the leaked email from Canon Philip Masson canvassing on behalf of Jeffery John, his old chum and Godfather to his child?
These things are stitched up well in advance.
The byword of the Cult in Wales is control, not christianity.
DeleteThat’s me - down to earth. Humble to a fault.
DeleteUnRuthy
Come, come untRuthy, why be so immodest, you do yourself up by omitting your most redeeming characteristics - being so liberal towards those who don't share your point of view and so full of pigeon guano.
DeletePardon my immodesty. It's not so much 'points of view' that bother me, it's when those attitudes and prejudices result in hate towards women, gays, people of colour, women, non-Tories - you know the sort. But you're right, I do have many redeeming characteristics and I am most happy to share them here. Happy to be the nemesis of those in support of this awful site.
DeleteUn-Ruthy
Nemesis?
DeleteYou wish.
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I wish not, actually. Dreadful site. Shame on its supporters.
DeleteUnRuthy
Wouldn't it be easier to be a one diocese province with a presiding bishop with three assistants under him/her? Guys we are half the size of the diocese of Oxford for goodness sake! We need to end this pantomime called 'Not fit for purpose!'
ReplyDeleteWHAMAB
Just stop your giving and do your best to persuade everyone else likewise.
DeleteMoney, or more accurately the lack of it, is the one thing they will all understand.
Stop the giving, stop the Parish share payments, bankrupt the Diiceses and then the entire sick and twisted operation.
I stopped giving when the Santiago junket was first organised.
ReplyDeleteExcellent news.
DeleteI stopped giving a few years ago, as have many other formerly reliable givers. LGBT, gay blessings, practising lesbian Bishop, faith tent, charter plane to Santiago.
DeleteA much diminished church.
Wick
PP. Adding to the mix, like a serving suggestion for a Mother Union tea. I have much administration for the commentators above agreeing with much too. Indeed the process is flawed. The election should have a group of laity and clergy who are not on the RB, GB, a DBF or, hold a any provincial office (allowing any legal officer present to ensure clear guidance- with no vote).
ReplyDeleteThe bench should all have no vote either and be required to present a written report with the following: 1 their skill set, track record, achievement. 2, their diocese management skills with clear examples, 3, the vision strategy they have for the CiW and how they intend to achieve them with smart targets. Perhaps two candidates from outside the Province are also added to the candidate list, these could be recommended by the Crown?
Then the college would interview each one, they would be subject to open questions by the present members.after which voting would be taken. Eliminating the candidate with the lowest votes untill they have one. If after the 3 days a decision is not made, or two candidates are deemed suitable, the chair of the panel can seek the counsel of the AB of Canterbury or his commissary.
My suggestion is only that, holes in it probably, fine tuning of course, but all I'm doing is making suggestion as the current process is so very flawed.
The probability is practically rubber stamping +Andy, who would like one of his predecessors hold office for a very long time - that would be a sizeable disaster.
+SB is a good man with strong governance experience in/out of the Church, but possibly too early in his episcopal formation. +Cherry is a good candidate, but the sexuality issue is the grip for too many. (Not wanting to go into that again).
So, it looks like a Rubber stamp Job - may the Lord have mercy on the soul of CiW.
Great suggestion(s)
DeleteUnRuthy
Codswallop.
DeleteThe achievements of the current crop of plank sitters speak for themselves; the square root of sweet Fanny Adams.
Do you really believe that any one of them would tell the truth about themselves, their skill sets, experience or fitness for the role?
By what means would you verify their claims?
As for their "vision", are you serious?
Have you taken the trouble to read the rubbish pumped out by the RB and Dioceses PR machines of the last 20 years, the Annual Reports and the "projects" undertaken?
The "Sneak-a-peek" shambles at Llandaff Cathedral, followed by the the fanfares of "It was a wonderful success because we say it was a wonderful success" from those responsible for producing and delivering it.
And which mugs do you suggest would be willing to have anything to do with the Cult in Wales from outside the Province?
Please explain how, for example, the Bishops of Cyprus or Tanganyika, could or would become the Archbishop in Wales?
Since disestablishment occurred over a century ago, by what means do you suggest either the Crown or Canterbury be involved in the process?
What a comedy of errors.
If untRuthy thinks your suggestions are "great" it's safe to assume the exact opposite.
@PP
DeleteI'd be interested to know what you imagine DodoJo would write in her report under the heading "Achievements"?
Do you think she would include
"Discriminating against, upsetting and alienating every Tory in my Diocese, Wales and possibly the entire UK"?
How about "Upsetting all my elderly clergy by lying and concocting a bullsh*t excuse about insurance as a cover for my own bigotry towards Anglo Catholic traditionalists"?
Just what else HAS she achieved?
Q:
DeleteWhat are DodoJo's achievements?
A:
That would, of course, eliminate the Lord and his apostles.
ReplyDeleteRob
PP @Rob, I would say that the Holy Spirit would have serious input in the process.
ReplyDeleteTwo other Churches follow as similar process. It's recorded, minuted and accountable. Which is far more transparent that our current process, which basically is a rubber stamp hobby!
How exactly would the Holy Ghost have any input to the process PP?
DeleteI have to wonder why Someone like Rowan Williams would appear alongside with the Bishop of Llandaff if he is of the same opinion as many of the contributors to this blog.
ReplyDeleteIs he also part of the conspiracy ?
I'd say that his intellect and orthodoxy suggests support for the fair lady
Cymro
PP. @Salva Nos You ask me "How the Holy Spirit would be present?". With respect, I would think by invitation as is the prayers during the due process. If our 6 are as spiritual as their office requires, ordination imparts, then most surely His presence will be felt and listened too, descerned and influenced, in the election.
ReplyDeleteOn the Rowan matter, I cannot see him being party to any conspiracy. What is good is the number of confirmed candidates, show excellent pastoral leadership in that benefice, a good model for others
If our 6 are spiritual.
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There's your first problem.
With Gregorius Maximus on his Ouija board some spirits may answer but it won't be the Holy Ghost!
PP, you are naive. The plank sitters have reneged on their ordination promises. They have rejected Jesus and his teachings as "one opinion among many". Their opinion, and those who share their opinion, is the only thing that matters. They have placed themselves as "Lord" of the Church. Why do you think that the Holy Spirit would want any part in such a meeting to elect the Chief Plank Sitter? Jesus said that he would send us the Holy Spirit to bring us into all truth and to remind us of all that he had taught. The plank sitters wouldn't knew the truth if it slapped them in the face; and they have no interest in Jesus' teachings. The Holy Spirit left the Cult in Wales years ago. Why else do you think membership is dropping, and people have ceased their giving? Despite the plank sitters rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, and carrying on as if none of it is to do with them, I believe the Holy Spirit is bring their farce to its end.
DeleteSeymour
PP. Seymour you may be right, but, we the pew sitters have to trust in God.
ReplyDeleteWhat on earth is this about Gregory's Ouiji board?
I'm sure the bunch has looked into the legalities of today's election, but surely, The Constitution of The CiW requires all six Diocesan Bishops to be in place to elect. I was not aware that John Lomas had been consecrated, therefore, he is not a bishop! Quite willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.
ReplyDeleteHe has been confirmed at a service in Wrexham on 23rd November. Great news today that the next Archbishop will definitely be female
ReplyDeleteElect and confirmed but not consecrated, so not a bishop. The constitution requires all BISHOPS to be in place before the election of an Archbishop
DeletePP. Hang on that would bypass the process of the college?
ReplyDeletePP. Hang on that would bypass the process of the college?
ReplyDeleteAfter the Sacred Synod a person is legally a Bishop and can act as such legally, but not sacramentally.
ReplyDeletePP. BBC news has just confirmed Andy as the new AB.
ReplyDeleteBuggins' Choice wins by a furlong at 10-1.
ReplyDeleteThe Church in Wales will be dead and buried by 2032.
You are being very generous with your 11 year life span, Gabriel. I wouldn't put money on that. My mate recently received the Parish Share figures for S&B. The shortfall in Parish Share for this year is nearly £400,000. The amount of outstanding Parish Share from previous years in that one diocese is nearly £1,150,000. How many businesses would be allowed to keep trading with that amount of debt? It would be interesting to know how other dioceses are faring. No wonder Shirley wanted to disappear off the scene as quickly as she did.
DeleteSeymour
I don't dispute your figures for Swansea & Brecon Seymour, but don't forget that the RB is awash with cash at the moment and it will take a few years for the bankrupt Doiceses to drain and drag down the larger monolithic organisation with them.
DeleteOf course, it might happen more quickly if all Parishes that have been left without a Parish Priest simply stop paying their Parish share completely.
It's a shame the long suffering Llandaff pew sitters don't just refuse to pay their Parish share for the last two years.
After all, the Parish Priest has been in absentia and the reasons concealed from them for most of that time.
Stop the giving and drain the swamp.
PP. Would it not be easier to set a period of office as AB, say 5 years? Stipulation they must step down and also vacate their See?
ReplyDeleteThis chap will probably be nothing more than a damp squib, a possible puppet of the Dark One, who is probably rubbing his hands at the thought of a further meddle.
I just wonder how many rounds of voting took place to secure his 2/3. Who were the other nominees from the candidates? I foresee a change in retirement age coming swiftly for clergy to stem the tide of vacancies, which could see us back to the bishops going to 75 or 80 - heaven knows the bench plans, given the recent change to a bishop elect, unconsecrated, holding the ecclesiastical rights of office, but not the sacramental to be able to take part in elections. This makes the sacred consecration a right of passage, and the enthronement service no more than a passing event. Where has our beloved Church fallen too?
Looks as if + Joanna’s Tory tweet was apocryphal. The Tory elite were partying at number 10 when the country was in total lockdown! Beyond belief.
ReplyDeleteUnRuthy
I see you're repeating your drivel on this thread too untRuthy.
DeletePathetic.
That's me Gabriel - find we have to keep repeating the truth on here for it to sink in.
DeleteRuthy-telling-the-ucomfrotable-Truthy
From what I have seen of your contributions on AB's blog, you're not even acquainted with the truth, cupcake.
DeleteThat’s right cupty
DeleteRuthy