Friday 6 August 2021

The future of the Church in Wales from the Archbishop in waiting?


Archbishop in waiting? the Bishop of Bangor. Picture: Church in Wales. Source: The National Wales

The future of the Church in Wales, or, more accurately, the future of the Church in Wales according to Andy John, Bishop of Bangor, is predicted in an 'exclusive' interview with The National Wales. 

Others insist the Church in Wales has no future. Not surprising given the mess created by the bench of bishops with their secular obsessions. 

In 2015 the Church Growth Modelling blog forecast that attendance figures for the Church in Wales, the Scottish Episcopal Church and the Episcopal Church of the USA (TEC), indicated extinction dates around 2040. 

Aged 57, if Buggins' turn prevails, Andy John will be the penultimate Archbishop of Wales leaving another to do the final sweeping up. Gregory Cameron, the next most senior bishop after Andy John is 62 so he is likely to miss out as is the Tory loathing bishop of St Davids, Joanna Penberthy who is 61.

At 68 the bishop of Llandaff, June Osborne, will soon be drawing her pension leaving only Cherry Vann, Bishop of Monmouth, who is 62.

Depending on his/her age the next bishop of Swansea and Brecon could also be the last Archbishop of Wales.

The new Bishop of Swansea and Brecon is to be elected this month* leaving the way for the election of the new Archbishop but if St Davids were to become vacant there would be a further delay. 

That may account for Andy John's extraordinary statement:

“I think the question whether Bishop Joanna resigns is done and dusted”, Bishop Andy states. “She made clear that she regretted what she had to say… I think if we cannot provide a way in which people can acknowledge wrongdoing, learn from their mistakes, and come back, then it begs questions about whether we believe people can change. Whether or not we think the Christian faith is about second chances. To me, fundamentally, it’s about that. And those who are baying and frothing at the mouth seem to me to be part of what I think is quite pernicious in society: which is that we dress up in virtue – or in the language of virtue – a kind-of campaign to persecute.”

Having found ''Biblical support for church gay marriages" the divorced and re-married bishop of Bangor can no doubt justify anything he fancies. 

In his interview for The National, Andy John was asked about the draft Bill which had been outlined at Governing Body (GB) in December. If passed by a two-thirds majority it would allow a five-year trial period for priests who would like to hold a service to bless a same-sex couple after their marriage or civil partnership.

Did the bishop of Bangor hope the motion will be approved? "Very much so", he replied before adding, "I think this will make us a more generous Church, which will make us a Church that provides space for people who demonstrate by their lives that they can be wonderful disciples of Jesus Christ when they want to live in love with a person of the same sex. I fail to understand… I fail to really understand why that is problematic.

Building up the pressure before the next meeting of GB, the former archbishop of Wales John Davies told ITV that it would be  a "slap in the face" for gay Christians if the church does not consider introducing services of blessing for same-sex couples.

"Simply to say", explained the archbishop, "that because it's always been so it must never change I think is a slap in the face to an awful lot of people who see something valuable in the church, but to some extent still feel rejected by the church."

That simply does not hold water. 

No generosity has been shown by the bench to an 'awful lot of people' who have been slapped in the face by a myopic bench of bishops, eager to impose their own liberal agenda at the expense of faithful Anglicans un-churched by the Church in Wales. 

As the recently retired Archdeacon of Llandaff, Peggy Jackson, a late convert to Anglicanism, put it with all the charity she could muster, "individuals with conscientious difficulties over women’s ministry will simply have to make personal decisions and individual choices, to find accommodation as best they can." (The naked truth).

There have been no 'second chances' for traditionalists who remain outside in the cold in what the bishop of Bangor refers to as 'a kind-of campaign to persecute'. It is clear why. The Church in Wales is at odds with the vast majority of Anglicans, let alone Christians. Anglicans in the Church in Wales who seek to practice their faith in common with the majority of Anglicans are an embarrassment to a bench of bishops preoccupied with fleeting secular fads and fancies.

As bishop Andy told his interviewer: "The pandemic has reminded the Church of its purpose: to serve. “Our job is to argue for a more humane, compassionate, loving society, and to be unafraid and to be unapologetic about that." His colleagues have “done remarkably well” during Covid-19 too. And it is hard to disagree. Even more so considering that – in his words – that the Church in Wales is “a bit like an oil tanker: it takes ages to turn us around”.

In a nutshell. The Church in Wales has set its course - to extinction.

The interview ends with: "A very confident and unapologetic message from a bishop who is very confident and unapologetic. With the possibility of him at the helm, perhaps this Welsh oil tanker will chart the right course, after all."

The interview started with the interviewer's confession: "I don't generally do God, I tell Andy John." Exactly the sort of people the bench look to for support and justification.

If ever the Church in Wales needed a transfiguration it is now.

* Correction: Election of new Bishop of Swansea and Brecon
 The election is to be held in September.
https://www.churchinwales.org.uk/en/news-and-events/election-new-bishop-swansea-and-brecon/

16 comments:

  1. My fervent hope is that the next Bishop of S&B will be the turning of the tide. Please electors resist the heirarchy and vote for someone with the gifts and character worthy of a Bishop.

    WHAMAB

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    1. WHAMAB, if the electors resisted the hierarchy's choice, the hierarchy would filibuster for three days, knowing that after three days, it will become their choice to appoint. Isn't that what happened in Llandaff? Swansea and Brecon will get a godless, liberal heretic, who will be just as much a hireling rather than a shepherd, just as the other five are. Birds of a feather, and all that.
      Seymour

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  2. So Andy John intends that Joanna (who, according to the St David's website is off until the end of August) shall continue as bishop. It's all about forgiveness, apparently. Yet what is the limit to this? Paedophilia rules someone out for continued ministry. What about theft, violence and adultery, for example? (not that I am suggesting she has committed these). Instead she has, apparently,engaged in repeated childish acts of narrow, deeply hurtful, party political propaganda. There may be no limit to someone finding personal forgiveness, but when does cotinued ministry lack credibility? When does it become practically impossible to do the job in any realistic way? Arguing for the bishop's retirement is not about holding a grudge but about upholding the episcopal role. If the Church in Wales supports retaining Joanna as bishop it is likely to push out a number of Conservative voting parish treasurers, whom she does not 'trust'. Sorry, but it is as bald as that. Think it through, Andy.
    Rob

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  3. "I fail to understand."

    Quite so.

    Plonker.

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  4. I wonder if the people of Sodom and Gomorrah feel rejected by the Church and, if so, shouldn't the Church issue a public apology for the way God treated them in his primitive uncivilised and unenlightened way followed by a campaign for a full pardon and that those people be featured on the reverse of the next £50 note?

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    1. I think the Church should go further than your suggestion, Enoch. It needs to apologize to Adam and Eve too. I don't know what God was thinking of when he forced them into a male and female body, rather than letting them choose for themselves the gender they preferred. Added to this he then encouraged them into a sexual relationship with each other. Who knows - Adam may well have preferred a sexual relationship with Steve, but he wasn't given the opportunity. Whilst the Church is at it, it could issue an apology for Jesus re-iterating this ill-conceived idea.
      The Bank of England had better come up with the new numerical bank notes. By the time the Church finishes with all these apologies, there are going to be a lot of banknotes to fill.
      Seymour

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    2. Priceless Seymour, you've made my day.

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    3. Perhaps the source of most right-on woke politically correct ordure, the BBC, will start to demand the Church re-write the book of Genesis altogether to include the 100+ genders they promote and an apology on behalf of God for not being clearer about His creation plans from the outset.

      Delete
  5. So DodoJo needs another month to reflect and recuperate?
    Who'd have guessed that she would do it and claim another full months pay?

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    1. PP. I wonder if the extra sick leave is a get ready for translation to S&B as her first day back in episcopal duty the election for the vacant See starts in Swansea. Strange it's not at Brecon.
      On the other hand, +J may have repented and in staying in St David's, will work out her contrition. Time will tell.

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    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    3. Perhaps DodoJo has got repetitive strain injury from all the tweeting she did. It takes a hell of a time to heal. It's probably too painful for her to hold her crozier. Interestingly, it appears that Andy Pandy has seen people "frothing at the mouth", which I am sure is a sign of rabies. I wonder if he has reported it to the relevant authorities!
      Seymour

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    4. His problem is that the authorities are all Tories.
      Little sympathy to be found there methinks.

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    5. You are probably right, Gabriel.
      I hadn't thought of that.
      Lets just hope that one of these "frothers" doesn't bite him or DodoJo.
      Seymour

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  6. Future?
    What future?
    The numbers speak for themselves regardless of what the resounding gong or the clanging cymbals on the plank of Bishops have to say.

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  7. For an admittedly different offences, John Profumo was not allowed to return to his previous position nor John Stonehouse, Jeremy Thorpe or Lord Carrington, nor a former bishop of Llandaff or one of St Davids. As I previously wrote, where do you draw the line? Clue: when a bishop lacks public credibility in the role they hold. Acknowledging their mistakes in all these cases - agreed, which were more serious -
    was insufficient.
    Rob

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