Saturday, 26 October 2024

Church closures

An abandoned church in Newington, Gloucestershire. Photograph: Adrian Sherratt/Alamy                        Source: Guardian

Simon Jenkins writes in The Guardian: "The Church of England is panicking about declining congregations – here’s what it should do instead. Too many beautiful church buildings are going to ruin. Councils could run them better. Let them."

But could they? If uncut verges and weed infested streets are anything to go by, perhaps not. 

Church mainteneance, particulalry churchyard/burial ground mainteneance will become a serious problem as congregations decline and churches close.

Quoting the Bishop of Chelmsford, Jenkins writes: "The Church of England is in a state of “panic and fear”, of “deep anxiety”, and should stop being obsessed with numbers and face the reality of decline. So says one of its bishops, Guli Francis-Dehqani, of Chelmsford. It’s not hard to see why. Two years ago, as weekly worshippers re-emerged after Covid, church statisticians were desperate to see if they would return at least to their 2019 numbers, when about 854,000 people turned out to church. In 2023, that figure was just 685,000.

"Put another way, 169,000 weekly worshippers have vanished over a four-year period. Fewer people now go to their parish church than attend a local mosque or a Catholic mass. It is all very well for bishops to urge the church to stop worrying over “targets” and “growth” – to leave the planning to God and stick to praying. But the decline in attendance is relentless. At the turn of the century, 1 million people went to church each year; in 1980, the number was 1.3 million. Since cathedral worship is rising, something is clearly going wrong with parish churches, even under the present evangelical archbishop, Justin Welby. It cannot simply be that ever fewer Britons are professing the Christian faith, as is the case across Europe."

Church going can become a habit, hence Churchianity rather than Christianity. Covid broke that habit for many churchgoers while equality diversity and inclusion have replaced theology, scripture and tradition. Consequently minorities rule.

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, is the latest to succumb to secular relationship values commenting in a podcast "that all sexual activity should be within a committed relationship and whether it's straight or gay".

That is not to judge the sentiments expressed by the archbishop, that will be left to Another. Rather it is to uphold the principle of traditional Christian marriage.

Secular notions of equality have become paramount. Churches are closing. Welby is treading the same path as the Archbishop of Wales and the Primus of Scotland.

The Bishop of Chelmsford is one of the front runners to replace Just Welby as Archbishop of Canterbury which would tick all of today's important boxes

Church and state leaders appear impotent as the British landscape  changes before their eyes. 

While churches close mosques spring up blasting out prayers five times a day from 5 AM. 

With no churches to go to and an alien culture foisted upon them, Anglicans will be like foreigners in our own land.

48 comments:

  1. I suspect that beer-loving Justin Welby will be equally concerned about the fast-demise of that other village/parish edifice of spiritual fulfilment ... the village pub! 7,000+ of them closed since 2012. In both cases I suspect that it's simply an evolving of social trends rather than pulpit or bar-top banter about Christian values, gays or whatever.

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  2. It's really very simple.
    Who in their right minds wants or needs to go to Church to be surrounded by a bunch of mincing limp-wristed Larry Graysons, crop-haired dykes or trans drag queen story-tellers?

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    1. And that's just the clergy.
      🤣

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  3. Baptist Trainfan26 October 2024 at 22:48

    "Since cathedral worship is rising, something is clearly going wrong with parish churches". When you worship in a cathedral, you can sit back and enjoy high-quality professional worship with no demands being made of you. In many parish churches you will find a harassed member of the clergy who has been stretched across a number of churches, a tiny choir of enthusiastic but possibly not-very-good singers (if you're lucky), a cold damp building, and an almost immediate request to "get involved". Yes, I caricature: but that picture may not always be too far off the mark. I honestly don't think it's theology which is deterring people.

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    1. I think that is an accurate picture, not a caricature!
      The Observer

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  4. Typical feeble-minded Guardian drivel.
    Simon Jenkins' suggestion that Councils could run anything better is both preposterous and risible.

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    1. Just one reason Birmingham is infested with mosques.

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    2. Bangor cathedral obviously agrees with Simon Jenkins. Having for years ignored its once-magnificent Bible Gardens to a point where hardly any of the Biblical species remain and its masonry crumbling, it's thrown in the towel - or the trowel - and handed the area over to the Bangor Corporation. Yes 'Enoch', Bangor's large population of Moslem community-tax payers now forking-out to pay for land owned by the Christian Church-in-Wales. How very generous of them!!!

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    3. Blimey, Bangor has moslem tax payers?
      Now that's a novelty.
      Everywhere else, if they work at all, it's at cash-in-hand car washes, barber shops, taxis, kebab shops or curry houses.
      Anyone know if Imams submit annual tax returns like Parish Priests?
      Bewildered

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    4. Llandaff Pewster29 October 2024 at 12:16

      Has Simon Jenkins seen the way Councils run libraries and close them down?

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    5. Baptist Trainfan29 October 2024 at 19:45

      They might have been able to keep them open if central Government funding for councils hadn't been cut by 40% in real terms between 2009/10 and 2019/20 (there were increases in the following two years, largely to counteract the effects of Covid). These figures relate to England but I'd guess Wales followed a similar path.

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    6. Borrowing central government funds to invest in dodgy property developments didn't help either.
      Instead of building council houses they were speculating on shopping centres, buying crap works of modern "art", hiring Stonewall diversity champions and promoting dozens of genders in schools.
      As for the shambles in Wales, you have 25 years of welsh Labour and the pathetic assembly to thank.

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    7. @Baptist Trainfan
      Councils might also have been able to keep libraries open for longer if they hadn't also een squandering funds on drag queen story-tellers to indoctrinate and groom young impressionable children.

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  5. Apparently it's much worse in Presbyterian Scotland: https://audioboom.com/posts/8596533-sale-of-the-century-why-is-the-kirk-selling-off-hundreds-of-churches-so-cheaply.

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  6. It's pretty crap in the Vale of Glamorgan too.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vlxn62er7o
    Isn't this the former lair of Peggy the Pilate, archdruidess and senior mistress of --Bazza's coven?

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    1. It's highly likely to get much worse too.
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/27/rachel-reeves-budget-risks-triggering-wave-church-closures/
      Big round of applause for all the naiive dolts who voted for the socialist lunatics.

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    2. Yes and look who is leading the diocese of Llandaff now, the Poisonous Dwarf.

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    3. Typhoid Mary has kept a surprisingly low profile compared to her predecessors.

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  7. Baptist Trainfan28 October 2024 at 10:24

    Whatever the reasons (and I'm by no means convinced that they're the ones mentioned by folk on this blog), attendance at most churches in Britain is falling. As Jenkins states, this leaves us with a lot of ancient and beautiful buildings which congregations not only struggle to maintain but which may be less than suitable for modern use. The State rightly says that these buildings form part of our national heritage but, in many cases, leaves it to the local congregations to look after them. Often maintenance of such buildings is hedged around with expensive and time-consuming conditions and restrictions. While I rather doubt that Councils, with their increasingly stretched resources, could effectively manage church buildings, it's clear that "something has to be done" if these places of worship are to survive. The current congregations are not their owners but merely their "pro tem" custodians; English Heritage/Cadw and the Church Commissioners seem unwilling/unable to manage the situation. So what is to be done?

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    1. The Church of England holds £3 billion in assets of various sorts including owning shopping centres etc but bleeding heart white guilt woke Welby wants to splash out on reparations for slavery 250 years ago.
      Take a wild guess where I would suggest significant funds can be diverted from, just to start with.

      What are the Baptists doing about their Chapels?

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    2. Baptist Trainfan29 October 2024 at 09:03

      A good question. Baptists are of course "connexional" and so less centralised than Anglicans. Also, chapels are basically (I could go into the legalities) owned by their congregations. The Baptists denominations (there are two major ones in Wales) don't have large asset portfolios like the Church Commissioners;' on the other hand they don't have crumbling medieval buildings to maintain. Nor do we have a parish system which insists on having a presence in every community.

      Many older buildings are sadly becoming redundant; some of these will be large Victorian chapels which are unsuitable for modern use - eg the Baptist chapel in the centre of Newtown closed last Sunday. Usually these buildings will simply be sold, subject to Charity Commission rules; if the building isn't listed, it may simply be demolished and the site redeveloped, or converted for other uses (one in Folkestone - which I attended once! - is now a Wetherspoons' pub!).

      So no easy answers here either.

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  8. In days of yore, attracting 'celeb' preachers to parish pulpits to preach the Harvest sermon was a sure fire way of filling village churches. Even scheduling in the local bishop was considered a bit of a draw.

    Baffling therefore that Bangor Cathedral appears to be guarding as 'top secret' the confirmed scheduling of His Grace Justin Welby, Archbishop of Canterbury and head of the world Anglican communion to Bangor in a few weeks time. He'll preach the Advent message. Why it should be so 'hushed up' is beyond anyone including some of the Cathedral staff who are cautioned not to utter it to even the congregants. Not even mention of it in the local press despite one of the regular choir laymen being a BBC news reporter. All very odd.


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    1. Many things hushed up at Bangor Cathedral atm

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    2. This reminds me of the bishop who was a dreadful preacher. He arrived at a church in his diocese to discover a congregation of six people, even though the parish returns reckoned that Easter Communicants numbered in the hundreds. Following the service, the bishop asked the Parish priest, "Didn't you tell them that I would be here today?" "No," came the Vicar's reply, "but you know how these things manage to get out!"

      The Loose Canon

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    3. If the Vicar HAD told his Parishioners that the Bishop intended to pay them a visit, there would have been zero, especially had it been His --Darkness Darth Insidious.

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  9. I too had heard 'rumour' of Celli Llan's revelation that Justin Welby was to travel to Bangor cathedral becoming the first Archbishop of Canterbury in recorded history (I believe) to do so although his predecessor Rowan as archbishop of Wales made his mark with HM Queen in audience a few years ago. And I agree her general gripe ... why hide such an event from the public. Surely such a significant 'visitation' is one to openly announce and be rather proud of ... even if Welby's posture on some elements is not every 'chocolate teapot's' cup of tea.

    Celli Llan raises a serious question. Why is Bangor so regularly and ridiculously prone to secrecy? Archdeacon Jones 'disappeared'. Silence. The oddball sub-Dean 'ooomph' into a fog of rumour. A 'D' Notice on that issue. Thousands of pounds worth of heritage artefacts curiously disappear from a locked empty city centre church and the diocesan press officer claims: 'they wuz nicked Gov' (but of course no Police report of such a massive 'theft') Now the Primate of the World Anglican Communion plans to preach at Bangor and the PR shutters are down. Follow on comments to Celli Llan's 'exclusive' are humorous .. but they avoid the issue. Why the secrecy. Is Justin Welby target of a Welsh Language Society bombing or a Bangor Mothers' Union banner-waving protest? Why the secrecy??? A visit surely worth advertising and welcoming. I might even try and sneak myself back in.

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    1. A complete non-event.
      Welby is a woke idiot and has nothing to say of any interest or relevance.
      I, for one, will be completely avoiding the prat.

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    2. You won’t be missed Menai.

      Benllech

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    3. Of that I'm certain.
      Only a few remaining gullible pew sitters will bother going or, if it's televised, a few saddos who want to see themselves on the gogglebox.
      A complete non-event.

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    4. Bangor is prone to secrecy on advice from Callaghan Square

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    5. Ah. Quill Pen should probably know about Callaghan Square orders to Diocese ref Press releases and announcements. Wasn't the crossed Quill Pens the insignia of London's International Press Club???
      But how cowardly and submissive of the Bangor lot to simply capitulate to Cardiff yet again. When will they just realise that just because she is salaried way above her post as head of communications, the PR lady is a failed lame-duck who has probably only survived because her various duff archbishops of Wales haven't got a clue about 'communications' either.
      Thankfully, this news about a 'visitation' of the Archbishop of Canterbury to Bangor has now leaked out via Ancient Briton and with its, 5,110,218 blog visitors I think we can safely assume the cat's out of the bag .... !!!

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    6. High and Mighty, Old Bill. You don’t have a clue! Not a clue!

      Benllech

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    7. Permit me to share a secret and promise not to grass. Archbishop William Temple attended (1944) the Welsh sung Gosper (Evensong) at Llanllechid parish church near Bangor unannounced. On his arrival at Bangor station he requested that he be taken there the following evening. My informant tells me that Archbishop Temple sat in the gallery behind an unsuspecting congregation. Well done to the late former bishop. Silence can be golden.

      As for the 'disappearing' Lord Lucan act, we can vouch that he is alive and well. Subject to privacy rules the Archdeacon was spotted recently in a friends funeral.

      Ellis Aethwy

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    8. Now could this have been the era of the Rev Tom Bailey-Hughes? If so I'm not surprised that Llanllechid might attract likes of Archbishop Temple. Even the Pope might have sneaked his way in for the experience of one of Tom Bailey's services! 1944? Perhaps just a bit too early. His parish magazines where hilarious for his hand-drawn (and often cutting) cartoons.

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    9. Too young to remember Rev. Bailey-Hughes but my mum swore by him. There were three neighbouring parish vicars who because of their charisma and good humour were a trio of excellence - and maybe a case-study lesson to modern parish vicars - Tom Bailey Hughes in Llanllechid, Rev Wynzie Richards at St Mary's Tregarth and Rev Aelwyn Roberts in neighbouring St Tegai's. Mum remembers a fundraising village hall night of song, madness and comedy with only the three of them - and Hogia Llandegai skiffle-group - on stage which. Stand-up comedy.

      Oh for the old days.

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    10. We remember them well. Then there was Rovi (Ifor Parri ) the magician from Caernarfon. Paul Daniels' wife attended his funeral at the crem.
      Talent still prevails via the hospital chaplain an Elvis impersonator Rev Wynne Roberts CBE (Honest Wynne) - all good stuff, no lipstick or mascara on him. National hero to liven a church.
      Ellis Aethwy

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    11. Rowan W was in Bangor for the infamous priesting service in 2018, when ++Andy's ex (then merely his "soon to become ex") was priested 14 years after being deaconed and weeks before she left Wales, and another female ordinand had been bullied out of the church by two gay ex-RC priests (and lovers, and working at the cathedral) just weeks before the service

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  10. Baptist Trainfan4 November 2024 at 11:17

    I recall an ecumenical service, in England, which helped to arrange. The preacher was to be the Diocesan Bishop, now retired. Car parking at the church was limited, so we stationed people at the church gate to both welcome him and repel unauthorised "parkers". As the time for the service drew close, consternation grew, as the Bishop hadn't turned up ... until we found him quietly waiting in the Vestry. He had walked from his "palace" to the church, come in via the back door, and asked to be shown the way. There was no show about him (or his wife, for that matter).

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  11. Sod the Church of England.
    Defund it and disestablish it.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/06/church-england-report-racism-backlash-behind-stained-glass/
    The archbishops should be strung up.
    Bewildered

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  12. Horrific, abhorrent and violent abuse of over 100 young people covered up for decades.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje0y3gqw1po
    Well I never!
    Exactly what did Welby know, when did he know it and what - if anything - did he do about it?
    Never mind reparations for slavery two centuries ago, what about compensation for abuse victims still alive today?

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  13. Bangor Again! Another unexplained disappearance from ranks of the senior management of the cathedral. Director of Music & Choirmaster Joe Cooper has been relieved of duties and placed on 'indefinite leave' after a crisis meeting between cathedral caretaker Canon Tracy Jones and Assistant Bishop David Morris (with amazingly, absent sub-dean Sion ap Rhys Evans on Zoom). The meeting followed several complaints by parents of young choristers regarding Cooper and an alleged shouting match after an All Saints Day service (Nov 3).

    Lay clerks and parents of choristers are told by e.mails not to enquire further or comment 'outside the box'. Another Bangor shroud of silence. Cooper's live-in partner Simon Ogden and lay-singer has also taken unlimited leave ... but at least on grounds of sudden ill-health. Poor darling.

    And there was Bangor thinking that after a rotation of musical-chairs choir-room sackings and resignations under Cyanide Sue and later Kathy Jones, all had settled down at least in the choir stalls. Wrong.

    More curious to this news snippet is the fact that Sion ap Rhys Evans still has some say in goings on ... albeit by remote control on his laptop somewhere. Do we assume therefore that he's still drawing down his clergy stipend and Diocesan Secretary salary?

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    1. @ Ad Clerum

      'Benllech' will probably retort to yours 'you haven't a clue!' but you're right; another staff crisis at Bangor cathedral. It really is time that the Diocese treats its congregants with a bit of honest respect by sharing decision-taking with the membership which funds it rather than treating them as irritating mushrooms.
      As for Sion ap Rhys Evans and that continued unnecessary silence, I too heard that he still tries to engage himself in cathedral issues as indeed up until last weekend he is still listed on the weekly order of service as the 'Sub Dean'. Is he or isn't he?

      But the sudden absence of Joe Cooper: bang on Remembrance Sunday, the visit of the Archbishop of Canterbury, the roll-out of Christmas music and the major planning for Bangor's 1,500 St Deiniol events is curious ... although not surprising. I hear that 'anger management' was not one of his strong points.



      As for the status of the

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    2. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to know that Sion ap Rhys is still drawing a hefty salary for being absent from the Cathedral.

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  14. Reminder: Anonymous comments intended for publication must include a pseudonym.

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  15. So that's two out of six Welsh Cathedral organists currently suspended !

    Congratulations.

    Sir Omicron Pi.

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  16. Bishopette of Newcastle publicly calls for Welby to resign as his position is untenable.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yx90q0v31o
    At risk of "losing all credibility".
    To what credibility is she referring?
    😂😂😂

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    1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/11/the-telegraph-john-smyth-abuse-justin-welby-involvement/
      Welby definitely needs to go, and now.
      Bewildered

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  17. To call Welby "evangelical" is like saying Hitler was a socialist! (i.e. a load of nonsense!)

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