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| The Rt Revd Philip North, Bishop of Blackburn Source: Geoff Crawford/Church Times |
A Review of the appointment of the Rt Revd Philip North as Bishop of Blackburn has concluded that his nomination followed the proper processes, but makes several recommendations how these processes could be improved.
The Church Times reports that
"Campaigners had raised concerns about Bishop North’s views on the ordination of women, which he has said is an area on which the Church of England should not be at variance with the wider Church (News, 15 September 2017).
"A submission by the campaign group Women and the Church (WATCH) centred on concerns about how having a bishop who does not ordain women could undermine clergy in the diocese and the diocesan bishop’s function as a figure of unity..."
Forward in Faith commented:
"The Independent Reviewer has rightly restated that, following a submission to her from Women and the Church (WATCH) regarding the appointment of diocesan bishops in the Church of England and in line with the Church’s Five Guiding Principles, being a traditionalist is not a bar to becoming a diocesan bishop.
"However, Forward in Faith also notes with concern that the Independent Reviewer has recommended in her report that consideration be given to re-examining the scope of her role. It is not clear to Forward in Faith from the contents of the report exactly what deficiency in the current arrangements would be met by such a change.
"As WATCH has demonstrated in its referral on the appointment of diocesan bishops, any individual or interested party can make a referral to the Independent Reviewer. The Independent Reviewer can then assess the points made in those referrals.
"The critical question must always be how those referrals relate to the 2014 House of Bishops’ Declaration on the Ministry of Bishops and Priests. If there has been any breach of that Declaration, from whatever part of the Church it might have come, then it needs to be addressed directly and transparently. However, simply not agreeing with, or feeling uncomfortable with, the contents of the Declaration can never be, and should never be, grounds for a referral to the Independent Reviewer.
"The direction of travel being opened up by the Independent Reviewer runs the risk of undermining the Declaration, which quite rightly seeks to promote the flourishing of all parts of the Church and to uphold and protect the minority position in the Church of England, which in part occurs through the work of the Independent Reviewer.
"Forward in Faith remains strongly of the view that the Church of England benefits from the breadth of its witness, including the catholic teaching and practice which it holds in common with the universal Church."
Once again WATCH show themselves in their true colours as a group of feminists using the Church to further their feminist cause regardless of the effect on others.
Offered a choice, I would prefer to have a priest who is clearly a woman in all outward and inwardly emotional senses than a man who wants to be a woman, sleep with and marry a man [who may or may not also want to be a woman], sometimes dresses like a woman and has all the outward signs of girlie posturing ... in other words: an LGBTQ uncertainty of questionable morals who then abandons the Scriptures.
ReplyDeleteI sympathise with your point of view, Old Bill, but what if the traditionalist argument that a woman *can't* be a priest or bishop is true, and that therefore the sacraments she purports to administer are null and void? This of course has implications for men who have been through what may turn out not to have been a true ordination at the hands of a woman bishop. BTW, I'm surprised that AB has so far failed to comment on yesterday's announcement of a new Assistant Bishop of Bangor.
DeleteIs Paula Vennells the kind of thing you want Old Bill, along with her "computer literate" husband who likes to water things down to "anomalies and exceptions"?
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68883059
The forgiving and charitable attitude of Welby's nomination for the post of Bishopette of London.
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/cm541z38dz9o
Just how grubby can this scandal be?
And where is Welby's support for Vennells' victims?
👂👂👂???
Hark! The sound of deafening silence. 🤬🤬🤬
Or perhaps you prefer the woman Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire Police?
Delete"Abhorrent" message on WhatsApp.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68886331
Time to face up to the reality that our Police "services" are dysfunctional scum.
It's not a traditionalist argument, but purely a misogynistic one. Your 'what ifs' are indefensible in the modern age. Jog on.
ReplyDeleteMaximus.
To the contrary Prattus Maximus, two thousand years of tradition overturned to make way for menopausal third raters like Peggy the Pilate and her coven in Wales along with the likes of Pose Hudson Wilkins, Sarah Mullaly and Paula Vennells in England.
DeleteThe results of the feminist folly are plain for all to see.
Bewildered
Amen
DeleteDominic-Mary
REMINDER: 'Anonymous' comments for publication must include a pseudonym.
ReplyDelete'For five years we will be nice to you. For five years we will tolerate you. After that, you change your mind or go.' That is the gist of a remark made by a protagonist of WO back in the nineties. That, I think, is the gist of the situation now. The five guiding principles are not intended to be anything than a sticking plaster for a time limited future (whatever prelates may say), and if Forward in Faith thinks that they are meant to represent some kind of permanent settlement, enabling the flourishing of all views, they are deceiving themselves. Max Romana
ReplyDeleteI thought that the Porvoo Declaration declared Anglican and Lutheran Holy Orders to be equal. What effect does this have on the doctrine of intention? Please correct me if I am wrong.
ReplyDeleteIt reduces it to a farce. The Danish (Norwegian/Icelandic) Lutheran churches broke any episcopal succession at the Reformation. Danish and Norwegian bishops can delegate the performance of ordinations to pastors, and the Norwegians allow lay celebration of the Eucharist.
DeleteAs to the Swedes one has to accept two things to regard them as having preserved the apostolic succession of their bishops in the sixteenth century: first, that an episcopal consecration performed by bishops who foreswore their action beforehand as invalid because performed only through fear of the king and compulsion could nevertheless be valid; and, second, that a bishop (or "bishop") consecrated by one of those bishops whose consecration was coerced (as explained above) could bless a man ("according to Luther's fashion," as a chronicler recorded) to serve as a "superintendent" in Finland (not a bishop; by this point the king desired to replace "bishops" with "superintendents") and that the "superintendent" so "blessed" could have his title changed to "bishop" some years later and, some years later still, participate in 1575 in the consecration of an Archbishop of Uppsala along side other "bishops" and "superintendents" none of whom had received any form of "consecration" or "blessing" whatsoever when appointed to their offices, and in all these vicissitudes preserve the apostolic succession. Believe this who can!
@ William Tighe
DeleteAnd what Mr Tighe has all the above got to do with the price of a pickled gherkin?
Maximus, like most others who promote the 'ordination' of women, is ( conveniently) confusing Sociology with Theology.
ReplyDeleteWe belong to a reformed and reforming tradition. You find yourself a member of the wrong church. Plenty of churches who will support you in the views you hold. You’ll be happier there.
DeleteMaximus
Jesus founded just one church, so any talk of "the wrong church" and "plenty of churches" is rank heresy. The question is: which is the true one?
DeleteIn that regard, Matthew, readers may find this article by Dr Jules Gomes of interest https://stream.org/pope-francis-shuffles-papal-titles-better-than-a-magician-shuffles-cards/
DeleteThanks AB. I had in fact thought of including a reference to that article, though am always conscious of the irony: like so many apparent "liberals", Pope (or Patriarch, if he prefers the title) Francis is most illiberal in enforcing obedience to his diktats, e.g. in the matter of the Traditional latin Mass.
DeleteThis might also be of interest: "An Apologia for the Church of England
ReplyDeleteAnglicanism as the English expression of the Catholic faith FR CALVIN ROBINSON APR 19, 2024". (I couldn't get the normal linking mechanism to function, but Google should locate it without difficulty.). Fr Robinson has, of course, left the C of E because of its recent lapse into structural heresy; otherwise, he suggests, its claim to be "the English expression of the Catholic faith" would stand even if out of communion with the papacy.
Mr Robinson's views have not gone beyond Staley and Carter. The work of Eamon Duffy and McCulloch on the Reformation have rendered them untenable. His Holy Orders appear to have been derived from the Nordic Catholic Church so he would appear to reject Anglican Orders.
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68863594
ReplyDeleteCass furious over disinformation put around about her work.
It's the same woke fools doing the same to the Church.
Bewildered
First welcome sign that normality is being restored to Bangor Cathedral following the curious 'departure' of the Rev sub-dean Sion ap Rhys-Evans. Apparently the flamboyance of gaudy Papal vestments has been toned down but more particularly the vinegar like white wine so bitter as to be impalitable on the lips has been gashed and a popular return to a chalice of blood-red Port re-introduced. There's hope yet ... !
ReplyDeleteI am told on good authority that the Pontiff won’t be returning.
DeleteGiraldus
What is the reason for his non return?
DeleteBenllech
@ Giraldus & Benllech
ReplyDeleteYes the 'apparently true' good news has reached other ears too. No return for the infantile-idiot and if he does then there will be another 3rd time draining of long-suffering congregants of Bangor Cathedral who have simply suffered enough from the ineptitude of Andrew John's appointments to senior posts. I assume - with some optimism for the entire Diocese of Bangor that if the self-appointed Great Jehovah quits the cathedral he will also quit as the highly paid Diocesan Secretary?
But to whoever is appointed to replace him - and hopefully not another jumped up curate like ap Rhys Evans or like Susan Jones a sychophant and cassock kisser of the Bishop of Bangor - he or she will make it a priority to publish the full accounts of Bangor Cathedral from the lavish costumes and £200,000+ unnecessary IKEA furnishings to the massive costs of the Choir and music-theatre to the appointment of LGBT staff and London-based Chapter canons of his friendship and expenses claiming to the financial damage caused in his abbrasive loss of goodwill in Bangor generally; an appalling list of rudeness to the infuencers in the City who have simply distanced themselves from this ancient Cathedral.
Then another audited report to be published on his personal spending vis his lavish alterations to the deanery .... the same one which as Diocesan Secretary he alone deemed unsecure and unhabitable for Deans due to student noise nuisance etc and as soon as signing off £1 million for purchase of two new Dean and Canon properties he abruptly moved into rent-free. And nothing said by the RB who seemingly - like his pathetic bishop - feared the man.
So if true and that there might be a new Dean of Bangor then with God's help it might be a REAL one and one honest enough to open the books and apologise to the congregants for the massive 'con' that the buffoon Andrew John thought he might at his third failed attempt hoodwink the 'Plebs' and 'poble parchus' with. Total tosser.
Sion ap Rhys wasn't to blame. He was under-qualified, idiotic in his pomposity and self-importance , incapable of man or resource management and thought himself superior in intellect to all others failing to understand that clergy and church members simply thought him a joke. Fault rests with Andrew John who appointed him
In answer to Benllech who asks the reason for his non return? Presumably CW because it's at long last dawned on him the Gig is up, the money has run dry and the Plebs want him out. the other theory is that with surge of written complaints to the Bishop about him he can give shit but is not prepared to take it ..... so has bogged off to avoid the flack
The ears in the walls report the little mincer might have gone to take up a position as curate in Thaxted.
ReplyDelete🤣
Perhaps the Bardsey mincer is to be appointed as Dean as well as an assistant bishop? He’ll have to fill his time doing something…
ReplyDeleteCanon Truth
@Canon Truth
ReplyDeleteBangor seems to be running itself very satisfactorily without its sub-dean and there's really no necessity to appoint a 'real' one. It's best to wait until the realisation and the only way forward is to amalgamate Bangor and St Asaph and cut out the waste. The greater challenge will be to identify and appoint a 'real' Diocesan Secretary to replace the despot ap-Rhys; a person who can drive change, restore confidence and support David Morris in the long slog ahead even if that means taking Andrew John down a peg or two.
I’m disappointed at the attacks on the bishop-elect on these pages. He may be “young”, but the vitriol being pushed here before he takes up his post seems unnecessarily cruel. The spirit of “fair play” is missing. If he does cock up (we’re all human after all), then criticism is par of the course; but let’s be reasonable. Whilst we are not of one mind on subjects of sexuality, the Church in Wales has made a decision on it - you can disagree, but the language used to describe him (and others) brings shame to this blog. The Church in Wales has plenty of things to knock at present - this blog shines a light where few in the Taff Media (or beyond) care to venture - let’s not to demolish someone before they even start and keep focus on what really matters.
ReplyDeleteA naive hope, but one we need reminding of.
DewiResistance
He is popular, I just hope he tones down the whole bishop's attire thing. We certainly need to move on from the outrageous over dressing and pomposity that has come to characterise the Cathedral in recent years. It's become very off putting. I found it hard not to laugh when the fur fringe made its appearance, and I can't have been the only one. It even made the Church Times. David desperately needs to put some distance between his part in those days and the kind of episcopal ministry he now wants to be known for. Less dressing up and more humility.
DeleteBenllech.
Agree with you Old Bill
ReplyDelete