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| Cherry Vann at sacred Synod in 2020 with her partner, bishops and legal staff Source: Twitter |
"The 'Call on Human Identity' referenced the last statement of a Lambeth resolution on the issue from 1998, known to all as 'Lambeth 1.10' describes marriage as being 'between a man and a woman in life-long union' and states that 'legitimising or blessing of same-sex unions cannot be advised'."
"The initial response raised by the globally small minority of Anglicans who have long repudiated the statement - and some having already introduced same-sex blessings or marriage - concerned matters of principle.
"In the words of the bishops of the Church in Wales, the draft Lambeth Call on Human Dignity, undermines and subverts the dignity of an integral part of our community, rather than affirming them."
For a timeline on this sorry saga see Lambeth Conference and the same-sex story.
Same-sex spouses have not been invited to Lambeth. So deeply do the Welsh bishops feel about this ban that they have chosen to stay in a local hotel as a token of protest because +Cherry Vann’s same sex partner would not be allowed to stay on the Conference site.
How convenient for the bishops having to take superior accommodation to make their protest. At what cost and to whom one wonders.
The cost to western Anglicanism of their behaviour is considerable.
As this Anglican Ink article notes, provinces engaged in 'Progressive Ideology', including same sex marriage, are dying while provinces mainly in Africa and globally that are not so engaged are growing.
An analysis, Is Anglicanism growing or dying?, shows that in Africa the number of Anglicans increased from 7,718,000 in 1970 to 56,947,000 in 2015. Globally the numbers increased from 47,394,000 in 1970 to 90,771,000 in 2015.
"In 1970, the combined membership of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada came to 4,373,000. In 2015, the combined membership of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada came to 2,537,000 and it has dropped considerably since then. In half a century North American Anglicanism has halved in size...
"For the rest of the West the picture is mixed. The numbers for England, Scotland, and Wales are as bad or nearly as bad as for North America...
"Central to understanding Lambeth 2022 will be recognition of who is not present. Swathes, perhaps the majority, of non-western Anglicans will be unrepresented. Beyond this, new Anglican groupings will be absent, yet they have substantial links with much of Anglicanism."
The article concludes, "Numbers are not everything, but they are not nothing. The massive growth and decline in the Anglican Communion cannot be passed over in an embarrassed silence...The shrinking provinces of North America and Britain need a new humility. Any attempt at 'business as usual' will lead to the spectacle of mostly white bishops from mostly declining western dioceses holding disproportionate influence at Lambeth. Such optics would render the deliberations of Lambeth 2022 wholly invalid."
Instead of posturing with false notions of human dignity, the Welsh bishops, and most of the English bishops, should have the humility to face reality and accept that they have been in error.
The alternative cost should be clear even to a bishop in the Church in Wales.
Even more reason for giving the Sunday service collection plate a wide berth. Does Ancient Briton know which London hotel so we can advertise the nightly costs and especially those of 'double rooms' ie Mrs and Mrs Vann and even ++John and Mrs. John No. 2?
ReplyDeleteOld Clerum
Knowing Juno's tastes it won't be a £25 per night Travelodge!
DeleteMy understanding is that they are staying in a 'local' hotel so presumably Canterbury.
DeleteThe liberal provinces of Anglicanism are dying. Why, I wonder? All the pandering to the 2% has not worked and will never do so. Reject the Apostles' teaching and there is no anointing, no power and no growth.
ReplyDeleteWHAMAB
That's what happens when the Holy Ghost is replaced by the Zeitgeist.
DeleteThe evil apostate imposters need to be driven out.
The vast majority of the 2% want nothing and have nothing to do with any church.
DeleteThe gay 'lifestyle' usually involves reckless promiscuity, thus the spread of Monkeypox virus is predominantly among actively gay men with multiple sexual partners.
All my gay or lesbian friends and acquaintances are in long term relationships but none of them are interested in going to church or having a church wedding.
The reality is neither 2%, nor even 2% of the 2%, but more like one tenthousandth of the 2%.
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ReplyDeleteOne glance at the photograph on the 'Disaster looms closer' thread confirms the fool Randy Pandy has nothing to offer Lambeth on the subject of Human Dignity.
ReplyDeleteIt was probably me who crossed AB's 'Admin' line as my comment wasn't published, so, with apology for that, I'll rephrase it.
ReplyDeleteThe subject matter of Wales's C-in-W delegation to the Lambeth Conference upping-sticks in protest that Bish Vann & lesbian partner can't stay together at the conference centre (accommodation) is worthy of far larger publicity than that which AB can provide. Cost of alternative hotel accommodation in Canterbury - premium rates now with the ferry-port log-jams adding to the summer season - will be phenomenal. The cost to the 'pew-sitters' will of course be kept secret.
So if any subscribers happen to know where this band of freebee free-loaders (aka bishops and clingers on) are staying would you share it with us and then, no doubt, it will reach the screens of our equally dumbfounded regional daily newspapers. I'm not the leak of such things of course!
But - with your co-operation - I think this is a story which ought to be shared with all parish PCC treasurers, donors and worshippers. Or maybe if call were placed, Anna Morrell would simply tell us! (Yeah, pigs can fly).
Old Bill
Failure to identify the specific location should be no impediment to calling out the freeloading plankers..
DeleteSimply publish the prices of the cheapest, a middle of the road and a high end establishments within a 5-10 mile radius of the conference centre.
Let the court of public opinion decide which the plankers will have opted for.
If the figures prove to be inaccurate then let Anna Morrell challenge them with the actual figures!
I know this might seem naive - but how do you know they're not paying for the accommodation out of their own pockets?
DeleteIf they do then Anna Morrell will be in touch with us shortly to confirm it.
Delete@BT
DeleteThat would be a first.
Doesn't the expression "unaudited discretionary funds" ring any bells with you?
Baptists don't "do" bells ...
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, I do feel that everyone was making assumptions without knowing the truth.
Any assumptions over the issue of the plankers putting their hands in their own pockets are all the result of previous experience over many decades.
DeleteDo you think June Osborne paid for her place on the junket to Santiago di Compostela in 2020? Or retreats with her senior clergy to country hotels serving cream teas?
DeleteI seriously doubt she even paid for her large Clarks' pie during her last visit to Grangetown!
Assumptions Trainfan? Try this one. Phone the University of Kent Lambeth Conference accommodation centre and ask to leave a message for Bishop Cherry Vann, V-A-N-N. 'Oh sorry Sir, Bishop Vann is not staying with us' Oh dear, you will say, well may I leave a message for Archbishop Andrew John then please ...? Bit of a wait, but the reply comes back: 'I'm sorry Sir, he's not registered with us either ...'
ReplyDeleteI thus tend to trust AB's sources of information. He's seldom been wrong over so many years of checking and double-checking his articles.
Old Bill
I don't doubt that for a moment. The assumption I was questioning is that the Church is paying for their accommodation.
ReplyDeleteGreat that the Baptist Branch of ASLEF/RMT is working on this rail-strike Saturday 'Trainfan'! (Or in trade union terms, should that be the Baptist 'Chapel'?) Only joking chum. But yes, I run with Gabriel and the probability of every provincial Bishop's (unaudited) discretionary fund as Mastercard for lavish extravagances of the Canterbury protesters. The Discretionary Funds are to the Church-in-Wales what the secretive P3 Masonic Lodge Banco Ambrossiano was to the Vatican ... and look where that eventually got its Chief Money Launderer Alberto Calvi: a sad and still unsolved death under Blackfriar's Bridge. Thankfully, return trains from Canterbury to London pass over London Bridge half a mile downstream from Blackfriars (but as a train buff, you'll know that!)
ReplyDeleteIts not really funny though is it that our collective of Bishops and their partners act in such devious ways in their own selfish interests. Hardly the 'transparent' church they expect us to observe.
Old Bill
There's always the outside possibility that Caiaphas has sold off Capon's Aga from the Llandaff Deanery kitchen to pay for their junket to Canterbury.
DeleteI think the term "chapel" only applied to the National Union of Journalists.
DeleteI see what you're saying about trains - but London Bridge itself is a road bridge!
The following story is in today`s Daily Post, maybe this is how the bishops are funding their stay in the Lambeth area !
ReplyDelete`Champing - or church camping - is the unique concept of camping overnight in historic churches. The Llanddona church is the first in Wales to offer accommodation to visitors who get to camp inside the building.
Set in a stunning location, the 1873 church is just 100 yards from the beach and offers an ideal place for holiday-makers to stay. Visitors pay £50, per person, per night, to bed down on camp beds within the building.
The unusual holiday destination comes complete with a kitchen area and an eco-friendly compost loo.
Cosy camp beds are set up in the shadow of the altar, surrounded by the stunning stained glass windows, church furniture, candles and crucifixes on the walls.
Tucked into a hillside overlooking Llanddona beach, the church has views of Red Wharf Bay and Benllech in the distance.
So, far the the idea has proved "extremely popular" says the Reverend Canon Robert W Townsend. He said: "People absolutely love the idea, and have really taken it on board.
"The idea came about about a year, to 18 months ago. We couldn't justify having two churches running for one congregation, we have St Dona's and St Iestyn, which are close to each other.
"We had many discussions and the dreaded 'closure' word was mooted. So we decided to give the church until 2024, to see if we can come up with an alternative use, to demonstrate that the building had potential.
"So, here we are the first in Wales to do Champing! It is a movement starting to happen in churches all over the country now, and we've been going since June. So far it seems to be quite popular, so we just have to see how it goes!"
One of the first to champ at St Dona's was the The Right Reverend Mary Stallard, Assistant Bishop in Bangor.
Speaking of her experience on the Diocese of Bangor webpage, she said: "My experience of champing was much more relaxing than I expected. It's not the same as sleeping in your own bed at home, it is more like camping or staying in a caravan, but it feels different because it’s such an unusual setting.
"There was something unique about the experience of sleeping in a church, I found an ambience of holy hospitality and I would encourage others who are interested to give it a try." `
Is St. Dona's for the girls and St. Iestyn's for the boys?
DeleteAnd where do the non-binary alphabet people stay?
On what did Mary Stallard "champ" down as she roughed it?
Why not Yurts in the graveyards?
DeletePeople are dying to get in there.
🤣 🤣 🤣
St. Dona's does a roaring trade in kebabs 🥙... 😂
DeleteThe dead centre of the Tourist trade.
Delete£50 per person per night?
DeleteThey're taking the Michael!
I'll bet my mortgage Stallard didn't pay so let Anna Morrell produce the documentary evidence to prove otherwise.
Unique concept of camping overnight?
DeleteI call BULLSHIT!
Bully boy --Bazza offered to allow protestors to camp on or outside Llandaff Cathedral some ten years ago.
Something to do with protestors outside St. Paul's Cathedral in London.
Of course nobody took the b'stard up on his offer because they could smell a rat from the other side of the Severn!
They should have called it "Chumping".
Delete🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Far more accurate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62360495
DeleteAnd what happens when the "Champers" want to have sex during their holiday stay?
Well, who doesn't have sex on holiday for goodness' sake?
Where in Church is it appropriate or inappropriate to engage in carnal activities?
Do visiting couples have to be married or is sex in the Church outside marriage tolerated?
And what of gay or lesbian couples or those in a menage a trois?
Who is going to police Godly order and moral behaviour in the building?
Christ in heaven, are these people so thick in their pursuit of lucre?
£50 per person per night?
DeleteWhy aren't they offering free accommodation to refugees from Ukraine?
Canon Bob can stick his tent pole where he won't like it.
Has the brain dead DodoJo approved of this idiotic idea?
I am so glad my family and I have left the Cult in Wales.
The more I read about it the more nauseous I become.
Salva nos, everything is tolerated in the Cult in Wales. The more carnal the better. The hirelings will even offer a blessing outside the door, for a few extra quid, of course.
DeleteHas anyone mentioned the sale of indulgences to the chief hireling? They managed to build St Peter's Basilica in Rome from the sale of those.
He could have Mary Stallard and the Sub-Dean celebrating Masses for the release of souls in purgatory. My God, how the money rolls in!
Seymour
What of the homeless?
DeleteHow many beds are being offered to them?
Silly me, there's no profits to be made from the homeless.
Have they obtained the necessary fire certificates and liability insurance for fee-paying guests staying overnight with candles alight everywhere?
DeleteIs planning permission required to change the function of the building?
Shame it has been called Champing, since giving up Twitter DodoJo is at a bit of a loose end and needs a new hobby.
DeleteChurping instead of Tweeting
Trainfan first. Right again you old buffer. I was thinking of London Bridge Station through which the Cantab-to-London train runs. My apology.
ReplyDeleteMathafarn: The Wales Tourist Board must be in crisis mode post Wigwam-Hat Stallard suggesting everyone come have a sleep-over at St. Donna's. Could you imagine being squashed in a 'doss bag' between Bishop Gregory midnight feasting on tasty pews and the twin delux sleeping bag of 'campers' Vann and Vann. And with so many vacant Vicarages in Bangor Dioc. why was Stallard kipping down there. Another silly PR stunt perhaps.
Old Bill.
Oh this is new! Bishop Stallard announcing as if new to modern science that "there's something unique about the experience of sleeping in a church"! She should try sitting in the pews when she and many of her colleagues are preaching. 15 minutes+ of guaranteed Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Zz
ReplyDeleteAd Clerum
As they say, if you took all the people who fall asleep in church and laid them end to end on the pews ... they’d be a lot more comfortable! (Which doesn't say much for the preaching!)
DeleteThe "champing" idea is hardly new - I've seen it featured on TV a few times over the last few years.
Not a new concept at all. Early 1990's I and others spent a thoroughly wonderful night in the cells of HM Prison Haslar, Portsmouth :: as paying guests. Unlike other inmates however, allowed to first of all share the Prison Officer's social club/bar for copious alcoholic nightcaps; but thereafter it was 'lock-in' - three to a cell. Strictly sex segretated. 06:30 unlock, 07:00 Prison breakfast (cooked by inmates and excellently prepared); 08:00 Exercise Yard (1st cigarette of the day), then Early Release with certificate signed by the Prison Guv'nor confirming we'd spent the night at HM Pleasure. All in aid of charity fundraising (which I shan't identify otherwise it gives my ID away). Cat'C' prisoners thought it an absolute hoot and went out of their way to combine the the purpose ... even having their own whip-round to add to the 'fund'. And yes, they knew who some of my party were ... not generally ideal bedmates to the criminal fraternity.
ReplyDeleteI think I know where I'd prefer spending an off-beat night if it was choice between camp beds in a draughty no-facilities old church with an assistant bishop on her prayer mat or some seriously honest and hilariously enjoyable rouges and the smells of carbolic soap wafting around. Sadly, HMP Haslar is no more. It would have made an ideal option for the hissy-fitting Bishops refusing the Conference Centre accommodation in Canterbury.
Old Bill
The rouges would suit the rogues too!
Delete🤣 🤣 🤣
I have slept through sermons, quiet days, retreats, lectures, seminars, conferences, on trains, planes, ships, in meetings, churches,caravans and at all times. Am I unique? I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteI find myself "Champing" at the bit wondering if those who paid an eye watering 50 quid to doss down in a redundant Victorian pile were briefed in detail of the life of Sian Bwt who slumbers in restless repose in the yard beneath the "Stunning stained glass windows" close to the altar and crucifix.
ReplyDeleteSian was a restless soul together with her siren daughters whose progeny are said to still inhabit the the environs of Tindaethwy to this day.
In their time they were not renowned for offering "Holy hospitality".
Woe to the unwary Glampers who venture out to have a pee when Sian and her daughters also venture forth at night.
Sweet dreams, sleep tight.