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| Bishop of Llandaff the Rt Rev June Osborne Source: Pressreader |
From Pressreader today quoting the Western Mail: The Archbishop of Wales has rejected calls that he should launch an inquiry into the running of the Llandaff diocese following allegations of bullying against Bishop June Osborne.
In the article archbishop Andy John confirms his impotence: "As Archbishop, I do not have authority over any diocese other than my own unless the see is vacant."
So there we have it. The diocese of Llandaff falls apart while the bishop of St Davids sits tight after falling into disgrace.
Was it just a coincidence that Joanna and June in particular looked more thrilled than the bishops of St Asaph and Monmouth after it was announced that Andy John had been elected archbishop or could they for some reason have felt more secure?
Now that the archbishop has confirmed his impotency, Church in Wales bishops appear free to do as they please. No-one, apparently, is able or willing to get a grip of the situation.
Just a sinecure then!
One wonders why Richard Pain ever agreed to leave Monmouth.
ReplyDeleteHe should have just sat tight and pretty until he reached 70, taken his salary and annual leave while doing nothing except watching his pension pot grow.
Quite so Episkopos.
DeleteShirley got his fingers so badly burned when poking around in the Monmouth mess that he opted for retirement before his duplicity became public.
It appears the chocolate teapot has actually learned something after all.
All we have learned today is that the chocolate teapot is a....., well...., chocolate teapot. 😂😂😂
DeleteYou're not wrong LG.
DeleteFollowing Caiaphas quoting from the Keyser report in October and the publication of the Monmouth Pain report in November, there are only two conclusions to be made.
One, there is no point whatsoever in the pew sitters paying for an Archbishop in Wales, and two, there exists no fair and legitimate means by which pew sitters (or anyone else for that matter, including staff or clergy) can ever hope to bring formal complaints against any Bishop in Wales to the Church in Wales.
Randy Pandy's flatulent and condescending response leaves the Llandaff 23, Vicki Burrows and her terrified colleagues, and the Llanishen 17 with two choices- either walk away in protest or suck it up.
It remains to be seen if Nick Mason and John Pockett arrange a choreographed mass walk-out at Juno's next appearance in Llandaff Cathedral.
If so, let's hope they advertise it in advance so we can all tune in to YouTube and watch it streamed live.
Not to mention stopping their giving if they haven't already done so.
The next set of Cathedral accounts are due to be published before long so we'll see soon enough.
To summarise, a Bishop in Wales, any Bishop including the Archbishop, can essentially do anything they like and mistreat anyone they like and there is no means of holding them to account.
DeleteAbsolutely none whatsoever.
And no-one can request a suspension or an investigation because under the constitution none of the Bishops can intervene, under any circumstances, in any other Diocese.
This massive flaw was identified almost 50 years ago following Eryl Thomas disgracing himself and NOTHING has changed in that time!
Walk away now good people and don't look back.
Why the Americanism
ReplyDeleteStandard English would indicate Impotence
And why hit on Andy (although it might be easy in other circumstances) . If he doesn't have the power, how can he act. Imagine the screams of dis respect and "hurt feelings" that would flow from the Green and St D if he tried.
What saddens me is to see that Mark Preece is expected to " Keep Calm and Carry On"
What happened to his Canon Treasurer
Cymro
According to Vicki Burrows in Radyr, the person who does have the authority to suspend Caiaphas (pending investigation(s)) lacks the balls to do so.
DeleteAs many commentators see it Cymro, serious problems exist in the Church in Wales without apparent means of resolving conflict. Had the archbishop acknowledged this and suggested a solution he would have earned more respect then sweeping issues under the carpet. If the bench continue to serve themselves rather than the Church perhaps others will take the problem to Governing Body but I am not holding my breath.
DeleteOne wonders if Mr Davenport will attend the inauguration service in Radyr on 25th January?
DeletePrecisely what does anyone expect from the Governing Body?
DeleteThey're largely Poodles who vote how they're instructed to vote.
Darth --Insidious saw to that.
PP. When you consider we have an AB who has no real authority outside his diocese (his own words). His office is basically ceremonial.
ReplyDeleteIf we compare this impasse in our Constitution, with the same role of other ABs, in other provinces, it makes this current state of inertia, a situation that will only worsen. Even York and Canterbury have more authority!
No wonder both St Asaph and Monmouth, had such pained expressions on their faces at the AB election.
The Monmouth Report, gave food for thought, but, for the Diocese, but for the province and role of the AB, absolutely a car crash beyond sizemic. At least 3 bishops have some modicum of reality, and who knows actually unbalance the bench!
What now? April 2023, a waiting game. The RB/GB, need to get a grip and put some serious effort in change management.
Sounds daft I know - but it might have been better for the (yet to be enthroned) Bishop of SB to have been AB! what is needed is a fresh perspective from someone (as yet) untainted
ReplyDeleteMichael Ramsey did not/could not discipline John Robinson, although he did write a book critical of 'Honest to God'.
ReplyDeleteRob
This is not a unique situation in the British Isles. North of the Border the Primus - Mark Strange - is also fairly impotent in addressing the dire situation in the diocese of Aberdeen and Orkney where Anne Dyer is the controversial bishop.
ReplyDeletePP. The only option is a judicial review on the strength of the evidence and descent. If the bishops can bring in QCs which probably the fees met by CiW funds, then as the funds are public funds, the laity/clergy can do the same surely?
ReplyDeleteRandy Pandy isn't the only one who prefers to mimic Pontius Pilate.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60070132
Why anyone would trust such people with their children?
The authors of the Church in Wales’ constitution could not conceive of a time when bishops themselves might need investigation. Andy John is right. Constitutionally he is powerless.
ReplyDeleteReally?
DeletePull the other one Daisy.
Are you seriously suggesting that only a hundred years ago such people were so ignorant they couldn't even conceive of corrupt Priests, Deans, Bishops, Cardinals and Popes?
Why do you think we had a Reformation, mere whimsy?
You're right about one thing Daisy, Randy Pandy is definitely powerless but you also need to add spineless.
DeleteThere may be no precedent but that doesn't mean there is no need for a precedent. A chocolate teapot indeed.
It's not that he's unable to make a visitation, he's "unwilling to do so." He may "not have the power to implement any findings or recommendations it might make", but he could definately refer any such to the Disciplinary Tribunal - if you put trust in that process.
ReplyDeleteSaggyoldclothcat
Randy Pandy makes it to the Church Times for all the wrong reasons.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2022/21-january/news/uk/archbishop-of-wales-rejects-independent-inquiry-over-llandaff-s-troubles
And yet another letter.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2022/21-january/comment/letters-to-the-editor/letters-to-the-editor
"Reconciliation would need to be initiated by those who have done the bullying or been unaccountably rude to clerics they perhaps barely know."
DeleteCapon doesn't admit or accept he's in the wrong any more than does Caiaphas.
Net letter please.
I would not enter into a process of reconciliation with someone who had bullied me until due process had taken place and the bully had been disciplined. If after that they sought forgiveness then fine.
DeleteRuth
A rather poor and insipid offering to the debate.
DeleteAnother one ignoring the elephant in the room.
How would a reconciliation be feasible while there's £70k missing from the Cathedral kitty?
Once more, the comment above is nothing to do with me.
DeleteOne wonders if the victims of Capon's bullying poison pen letters feel the same as "Ruth" above?
DeleteQuite apart from the Aga in the Deanery kitchen or the rest of the missing £70k, one wonders if Burrows or Cavanaugh are providing any pastoral support to Capon's victims?
One seriously doubts it!
PP. To shoot one's self in the foot, the AB, has in part followed the constitutional line. But, wouldn't it had been refreshing to see him, make a firm announcement that during his tenure the Monmouth Report recommendations would be implemented, and he would bring to an end the unacceptable aspects of the constitution and bring in a code of conduct with enforcement consequences for bishops.
ReplyDeleteIn the CT, the letter from Dr Cavenagh, is interesting, but I share the view that this reconciliation will never happen as the parties are beyond dialogue.
What is also interesting in CT is the number of new appointments to Monmouth from Llandaff leavers. It really shows that one of our female bishops is a very safe pair of hands in her Diocese.
The fact is there shouldn't be 6 diocesan bishops at all, the CiW is so far off the pace that it is clear that it is simply too cumbersome to allow deep and effective reform as it is. We fail to ask the right question if we accept the existing structures should remain even in the short term.
DeleteWith 20k worshippers, CiW should be a one-diocese province with a presiding Bishop and no more than 5 assistants. These assistants will not have the medieval autonomy that has been probably the single most contributing dynamic that has made the bench so dysfunctional. An Anglican province has to have a functioning episcopate or part of its raison d'être is gone.
Sad to say that the CiW experiment over 100 years seems to have failed and it would've been better to have remained within the CofE - that sentiment is a terrible indictment in itself.
WHAMAB
Twenty thousand worshippers in Wales?
DeleteHow absolutely absurd!
The Cult in Wales would be lucky to have fifteen thousand by now and they know it, which is the main reason for the RB stopping publishing the numbers.
Llandaff Cathedral will have lost at least 30 this month following Randy Pandy's pathetic response.
Just ask the new Chapter to publish the Communicant numbers.
They won't dare to do so.
Openness and transparency my fat backside.
Don't forget to tune in to all the fun of the fair in Radyr tonight.
ReplyDeleteNever a dull moment at the Cult in Wales. 😂 😂
A difference between the CofE and the CinW.
ReplyDeleteWhen English Canon Law was revised in the 1960s, the powers of the Archbishops were clearly laid out: "The archbishop has throughout his province at all times metropolitical jurisdiction, as superintendent of all ecclesiastical matters therein, to correct and supply the defects of other bishops, and, during the time of his metropolitical visitation, jurisdiction as Ordinary ..."
Perhaps we are really a Presbyterian body with episcopal succession. If Andy’s bishops are a law unto themselves, why not the rest of us?
In his continuing critique of the current papacy Fr Hunwicke makes observations on the traditional right of Archbishops to make good defects in the administration of other dioceses in their provinces. If the CinW constitution doesn't specifically allow for this, surely it can be applied on the grounds of "immemorial custom"? http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2009/11/more-infallibility.html
DeleteVery awkward scenes as the bishop appears to turn her back on Rev'd Burrows in the Peace!
ReplyDeleteEasier to stick the knife in.
DeleteAnother female Bishop in Wales announced this evening!
ReplyDeleteCB
Who? Where?
DeletePP. Just watching the Garth service. Apart from the above comments. It appears the bishop has some difficulty with her robes at the start, with her movement, stumbling at the chancel steps, she also is certainly not at full strength. Her chaplain seems preoccupied to notice. There is also a very cautious handover to the Rector at the final prayers. I would say that the bishop is unwell or, very uneasy at this service, in comparison to the Merthyr one.
ReplyDeleteThe most recent Diocesan Yearbook (available on the website) is an interesting read of late.
ReplyDeleteWith the departure of Llandaff's DDO being announced this week, that takes the total number (of listed clergy) leaving the diocese through resignation, retirement, or redundancy to at least 20 since its publication. That doesn't include those who jumped-ship (or were pushed) prior to its publication. Why isn't anything being done by the diocesan secretary et. al.? Surely the rapid departure of good clerics must suggest that SOMETHING is drastically wrong. One might suspect that Rev'd Burrows was right in writing her letter.
So, we now have an assisting 'bishop' in the diocese of Bangor? Why?????? More expense for we poor, lowly, pew sitters .
ReplyDeleteSo the chocolate teapot now has a matching tea service.
DeleteOutstanding.
PP. The AB appointing an Asst is an interesting move, doing so to as he puts it "... concentrate on the role of AB". Perhaps the "chocolate teapot" has more sense than it was thought? Following the Monmouth Report, the current Llandaff turmoil and the silence (phew) no tweet St David's. Have we finally got an AB who is about to seriously change the canon law, regulations, role descriptors etc of AB? Trying for good or ill, to plug the gaps we all know of late.
ReplyDeleteBut, one seriously hopes he is his own man and not the epilogue if a former AB.
The new Assistant bishop, at least is not a "yes" person, and will if allowed bring some clear direction in Bangor.
Whatever happens, the fallout from the Monmouth Report has more than enough to keep our Prelate busy.
Let’s hope the Llandaff saga will also be addressed! Clergy leaving in their droves. Many unhappy about they way they, or those around them, are being treated.
DeleteRumour has it that the results of the clergy survey were shared with lay chairs this week. It’s a shame they haven’t been shared with the clergy and pew sitters.
The ears in the walls report that respondents were invited to grade (from 1 to 5) various aspects of like in the Llandaff Diocese, with more than one response grading everything as 1 across the board.
DeleteThe results will be filed away in the "too embarrassing to publish" cabinet unless the respondents have the courage to publish both the survey questions and their responses.
Reports of a dismally low response rate too.
I'm not surprised that the return rate was so bad given it could be traced back to respondents.
DeleteIt also seems that many didn't even get the email as it was marked as SPAM! Ha!
The letter to the Church Times from the Senior Leadership Team also made it very difficult for many to be open and honest about their experience given that the powers-that-be had already declared that there was no problem!
The so-called "senior leadership team" are a joke.
DeleteThey publicly condemned themselves by admitting to surprise at the letters in, and reports to the Church Times.
As was described elsewhere, the Pantomime horse.
I don't recall receiving a questionnaire... maybe it was filled in by someone who knows my feelings.
DeleteFather David, Check the junk folder on your church in wales email account (If you signed up for one).
DeleteAlas, I fear the results will not be a good representation regardless.
You might consider filing a formal grievance against the Archdeacons for discrimination, except being a traditional Christian is not a protected characteristic.
DeleteDifferent matter altogether if you identified as a non-binary hobgoblin though.
If your copy of the Llandaff Archdeacons survey found its way into your spam/junk mail folder then it's in the right place Father.
DeleteThe number of good clergy abandoning ship should be more than enough to make the leadership team question what's really going on in Llandaff. The Church Times is remarkably quiet on the matter this week... I wonder when the diocese are going to recognise that a statement really does need to be made and that it needs to come from the Bishop.
ReplyDeleteYou're missing the point W.
DeleteThe Diocese of Llandaff and the Cult in Wales are both already beyond the point of no return thanks to that complete and utter B'Stard Morgan of Llys Ego in Whitchurch.
I’m still hopeful…
DeleteThe senior leadership team will be overjoyed to see the few remaining competent clergy leave, especially if they are male.
DeleteLess chance of them facing any competition or embarrassment.
https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2022/28-january/news/uk/angry-response-to-parish-reorganisation-gives-commissioners-pause
DeleteThe dire condition of the Church in Wales should serve as a warning.
It feels as though the diocese of Llandaff and parliament are running a similar course at the moment. Except the diocese of Llandaff haven’t bothered commissioning a report!
DeleteI was amused to see in today's Times the fact that capon not only can mean a castrated chicken but also a love letter! Who is sending the capon to whom?
ReplyDelete