 |
| Bangor wedding Source: Facebook |
Could this be the future, and possibly last, Archbishop of Wales before its demise?
The bishop of Bangor is the next senior bishop in the Church of Wales after the Most Rev John Davies who has announced that he is to retire in May two years before his 70th birthday.
May will also be the first anniversary of the Enquiry set up by the Bench of Bishops and the Representative Body into the events surrounding the retirement of the Rt Revd Richard Pain as Bishop of Monmouth, the procedures followed and decisions made by all those involved. It was hoped that the Enquiry and Review would be completed within six months.
PP. Interesting AB. As for Monmouth, according to recent diocesan news this week. The Archdeacon of Newport, is appointed Bishop's Chaplain, continues as Precentor and Archdeacon. While overseeing the handover of the Cathedral to the newly appointed Dean. The AD of Valleys now holds Monmouth pro tem.
ReplyDeleteSo one can only assume the the former Dean and Archdeacon of late (Mon) are going to be an interesting twist in the enquiry.
If the next Primate is not Bangor, or At Asaph, then one of her ladyship's are in the picture, but who?
A genuine question. Does the next Archbishop have to come from Wales, or could they be from England or Scotland? After all, Rowan Williams went from Monmouth to Canterbury. But I don't know what the rules are.
ReplyDeleteThere are no rules Trainfan. I couldn't get there but sent an aid instead. She reported that it was a lovely ceremony.
DeleteRobert Twrcelyn
The new archbishop will of necessity need to be one of the six Welsh Anglican diocesan bishops, because in Wales there's no fixed Anglican primatial see.
DeleteTo put it another way, in this respect the Church in Wales follows the model of the Anglican church in Scotland, where the Primus (the equivalent of Archbishop elsewhere) is elected from the bench of existing bishops and there's no fixed primatial see) rather than the English and Irish model, where the primatial see is permanently attached to one particular diocese: Canterbury, York, Armagh, Dublin.
Complicated but thank you. Theoretically, does that mean that someone could be brought in from outside and appointed as Bishop of a vacant diocese with the understanding and agreement that they will also be appointed as Archbishop?
ReplyDeleteIn practice - unless the Church in Wales has changed even more radically than even I might have conceived! - I can't see that happening, if only because I can't envisage a situation in which all the five other pre-existing Welsh bishops would be willing to consent to it.
DeletePP. I think we might have a situation for episcopal moving thrones. St D to Bangor, Bangor to St D and new blood into Bangor! The new AB I won't be surprised if it's a women, given recent moves.
ReplyDeleteNot 'new blood' PP, but 'new blondes' is what mission areas require. What a gorgeous looking lady.
DeleteRobert Twrcelyn
It strikes me that, if a woman is chosen, folk such as AB will immediately say that it's a “fix” and the men never had a chance; conversely if a man is chosen some other people will complain about “patriarchal structures” and institutional gender bias. So the CinW can’t win, either way!
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me none of the 5 really inspire confidence they can fulfil the role. Probably +St Asaph has the best credentials.
ReplyDeleteThe others are particularly weak, sadly. I just hope that gender doesn't become the dominant reason to appoint either the new Bishop of S&B or the Archbishop.
No rejects from CofE either, please!
WHAMAB
I'm with you WHAMAB - I hope gender has NO part to play in who is appointed - best bishop for the job. Glad to see this site and myself agreeing for once.
DeleteGender will have nothing to do with it since every one of them is an old woman.
DeleteI love the photograph of this evangelical Bishop who does not like 'dressing up'. Is this the new official dress for celebrating the sacraments in the Dead See?
ReplyDeleteHis theology hasn't been recognisably evangelical for a long time. The fact that colleagues were commenting on his public intimacy with Rev Naomi while he was still married to Caroline doesn't exactly shout out traditional evangelical lifestyle either.
DeleteWikileeks
A repeat performance of a former Bishop of St Davids knobbing his chaplain randy Mandy perhaps?
DeletePerhaps the 'knobbing' bishop, along with his chosen one, would best be suited enthroned in Bangor?
DeleteEvans the Truck
'Former evangelical' is a better description.
ReplyDeleteWHAMAB
Thank you.
DeleteYes Merthyr. Let go and let God. Pray for them both and move on.
ReplyDeleteClifford Williams
PP. Amen Clifford Williams.
ReplyDeleteI see that a new Dean has been appointed to Newport Cathedral, from CofE.
As Rev Naomi is doubtless discovering, Andy Crap's most evident quality (apart from being as thick as two short planks) is his capacity to nurse grudges, using his authority inappropriately to do favours for his friends whilst also bullying or ostracising those who pose a threat. Insecurity doesn't even begin to describe it.
ReplyDeleteIn that sense, he'll be perfect as the last Archbishop of Wales. Doubtless the sycophants cheering him on will say Wales needs a Welsh-speaking primate - except that Andy Crap can't speak Welsh fluently without becoming a laughing stock every time he pops up on Bwrw Golwg. When a letter appeared in the Church Times about a year ago, suggesting that there is no Welsh bishop capable of giving a comprehensible interview in Welsh, Crap got Mr Rhys Evans (occasionally of the Old Deanery, Bangor) to ring the Editor, Paul Handley, to complain that the letter was not accurate. After printing an apology, the former Ass Bishop, David Wilbourne, rang Paul Handley and told him that the letter was, in fact, completely accurate! As an archdeacon told me the other day, it's either got to be Gregory or Death By a Thousand Cuts.
As for S&B... If it's not one of the sitting senior staff, then we can expect another imported woman from England who doesn't stand a cat-in-hell's chance of being a bishop in the CofE. Yet again, it raises the question: how did Barry Morgan, the arch-supporter of womens' ordination, manage to preside over an evaporation of women with intellect, spiritual depth and leadership potential for 14 years? Gender aside, there simply isn't anyone obvious who could convincingly fill an episcopal vacancy in Wales. That's obvious from looking at least at four of the five we've currently got!
You are quite wrong, of course. Canon Dr Manon Ceridwen James will make an excellent Bishop either of Bangor (if +Andy moves) or of Swansea and Brecon. Canon Dr Trystan Hughes will also make an excellent candidate for Swansea and Brecon or would also make an excellent Bishop of Bangor. Both are exciting theologians, very much home talent (and could equally become Bishops in England). They are also first language welsh speakers. We don't need any further imports from England. That's not to cause offence to +Llandaff or +Monmouth or the new Dean of Newport, but this trend of overlooking capabable, engaging and inspirational candidates within the Church in Wales has to stop. It's demoralising and unnecessary.
DeletePP. I have to agree with "Home Talent" We do have many excellent candidates including those mentioned. Their is also Dr Ian Davies (S & B - Oxon, USA & Wales, Dr Jason Bray (St Asaph - Oxbridge). Other equally educated persons also are within the Province
DeleteIf we look at Monmouth over the last 12 months, finally we have the Bishop, who put huge emphasis on pastoral care of clergy, is mission focused and hardworking; Archdeacon (Valleys), well respected, and a new Dean with great credentials and experience. All from England.
The neglecting of Welsh talent is in itself a sad reflection on the appointment system. But, perhaps after the difficulties of recent year, (previous Dark Lord great example of autocratic leadership). You have to ask why the home talent excellent as it is, may not wish to join the leadership. At least the outgoing AB, has not been another clone of the previous. But,the new AB will need to be a strong mission and pastoral leader with significant parish experience. Therefore, if the candidates that are the current remains 5 bench, then, perhaps a rethink of the system of appointment is needed. If we use the example of Rowan translation to Canterbury, then could a similar reversal be the solution?
But this said, I am very hopeful of the new SW Bishop being "home grown".
Perhaps the training of clergy is the issue, was it right to crash St Michael's, or soften training at Lampeter and Trinity? Less ordinands going to the respected: Oxbridge theology colleges. If home talent is to be encouraged, then the training in the Province needs to surely match that of other Provinces. Is At Padarn's really fit for purpose? The bottom line is the bench and governing body, perhaps change starts there?
St Padarn's is less good than a decent House Group at a lively and active church. Limited biblical teaching, no pastoral care, and a "diversity equals woke uniformity" attitude.
DeleteI wonder if MAE Cymru are selecting their preferred candidate as we speak. The Electoral college must stand up to the oligarchy and choose a candidate based on truly spiritual attributes.
ReplyDeleteWHAMAB
Candidate? Candidate for what WHAMAB? To be 'dressed up in fine linen'? Possibly another useless PhD collecting dust in some library? What are the 'truly spiritual attributes' which you claim must be evident in a 'candidate' for Archbishop, bishop or priest? Are we simply to look for an individual who can manoeuvre like a butterfly round the alter with full set of teeth or someone who in word and deed is unmistakeably riveted to Jesus? Imagine being a candidate to be crucified? What kind of problems can you expect in a cemetery WHAMAB?
DeleteClifford Williams
Clifford, I was talking about the new Bishop of S&B not the new Archbishop. This is clear since I mentioned the Electoral College.
DeleteWHAMAB
WHAMAB
No need to even think of replacing the bishop of Bangor. Let Bangor heal its own problems from within. God has a plan and its called RECOCILIATION. Painful no doubt - but it is the only way of healing if that is burden of your concern, "God is faithful through whom we have been called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord".1Cor 1v 9. It's the only guarantee that you have that God will move among His Church. So run along and be useful disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Church. Instead of basking in this downfall pray for the bishop, his wife and their family. Be reconciled.
DeleteMarvel also that you "Can do all things, and that we are more than conquerors, through Him who loves us". Rom 8:v37. Does such a promise appeal to you? Then stop wallowing in your sin and let tomorrow take care of itself. Be reconciled to God, the bishop and his family and to each other while there is yet time.
Clifford Williams
PP. I have to agree, and add that: the best candidate is one who spends his/her time before God, seeking His discernment in all things. A strong theology, pastoral experience and a Pastor's heart. A worldly, look at me candidate, need not apply. Wales needs back to basics strong theological leadership not, politically correct Woolly secularism
ReplyDeleteWe can say Amen to that brother.
DeleteCW
Hence my suggesting Trystan and/or Manon - both candidates of prayer, poetry, pastoral sensitivity and with feet firmly on the ground. They've both earned their doctorates through research and hard work. What we don't need more of is Canon Law - dull, dull, dull! In fact we don't need candidates with a PhD to be honest. Cledan Mears was out visiting a parishioner when he heard he had been elected Bishop of Bangor. More of that please - humble, pastoral leadership. No career priests need apply.
DeleteHome Talent, you can not have read the informed comments under my previous entry https://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/2018/03/misogyny-repression-and-stigmatisation.html
DeleteYou've clearly not read the book AB - poor, journalistic article of yours there if you don't mind my saying so. You'd made an excellent journalist for the Daily Mail (though you'd probably want it re-titled the Daily Male before you would consider writing for it). Do your background reading!
DeleteManon James appeared on the prime-time cultural/political S4C discussion Pawb ai Farn a couple of years ago. It was embarrassing. As the producer said afterwards, they won't be inviting her back. As indeed they have not. She may have MAs coming out of both ears, but she's not actually that bright - and is only doing the job she's doing because there is a paucity of ordianed women in Wales who are Welsh speakers and can string a sentence together, so the CinW needs to make sure the stats make them look sufficiently diverse. Gregorius Maximus was quite right (and sufficiently discerning) not to appoint her an archdeacon in St Asaph, which is why she left the Diocese in a huff and headed for St Padarn's part-time primary school for vicars.
DeleteTrystan Owain Hughes is in a different league. He has shown considerable resilience as a parish priest for a sustained period of time (as opposed to flitting from one diocesan portfolio to another) and would certainly grow into the role, bringing a much needed timbre of intellectual credibility. Which is, I'm afraid, why he won't get it. The others will be too threatened by his abilities (especially Andy Crap, who won't want a native Welsh-speaker eclipsing his poor mutations). Wales always prefers to opt for the Church of England's rejects.
The Rev.Dr.Jason Bray is a genuine priest and a scholar. He would be a dedicated bishop.
ReplyDeleteCatnap
Please will someone qualify 'Genuine Priest'.
ReplyDeleteMuch the same as a 'genuine' heretic'', Merthyr. Someone who is genuine but genuinely wrong a the same time. That's why the Sadducees were 'sadd-u-cee'.
DeleteClifford Williams
Home Talent, it is erroneous as well as curmudgeonly to suggest that AB is a poor journalist - or for that matter that Daily Mail journalists are second rate. On the contrary, they are at the top of their game. AB is quite capable of writing leader articles for the national press, and, what's more, his use of photographs is exceptional. I should know. You may disagree with him, but your criticisms of the standard of his writing is wretchedly unfair - and untrue.
DeleteRob
Wise words, Rob.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the typo: I should have written 'your "criticism"... is untrue.'
DeletePut it down to this kindle fire I am using.
Rob
Ah, Rob,you are quite wrong. Information on this blog is often inaccurate or out of date as later everts bear out. I would say that it is time for a proper ecclesiological debate in Wales– but not one that’s based on caricature as is so often the case in this blog. Inadequate individualised understanding and poor methodology frequently lead to skewed insights and interpretations that can only be backed up by 'AB knows best'. La Sophia.
ReplyDeleteSo you allege - wildly, recklessly and monstrously unjustly. Provide some examples of what you allege, for the claims are devoid of evidence.
DeleteRob
'La Sophia' has always impersonated a Pigeon, all chirp and crap.
DeleteThe anniversary of Gerwhine's disappearance approaches and another set of Cathedral accounts are due shortly too, the text book example of caricature and poor methodology not to mention fiction.
... and peace to you sister! And thanks for so beautifully illustrating my point.
DeleteP.S. I quite like pigeons.La Sophia!
For you to insult anyone they would have to value your pathetic opinion in the first place.
DeleteSince Pigeons are essentially vermin you don't surprise me.
PP. Just watched Song of Praise. One part was at At David's full shot of the Dean. Had to wonder if she might be a candidate (MAE) for S&B?
ReplyDeleteSpare us!
DeleteRob
The new wife really does look remarkably like the old.
ReplyDelete