 |
Archbishop of Wales, John Davies, welcoming guests at a dinner hosted by the
Muslim Council of Wales in Cardiff. Source: Church in Wales
|
On Tuesday 26th March 2019 the Muslim Council of Wales "were delighted" to hold their Annual Interfaith Dinner. It was held at St Fagans National Museum of History "an illustrious venue that is set in the grounds of St Fagans Castle and chronicles the historic lifestyle, culture and architecture of the Welsh people.
"In the usual tradition of the Muslim Council of Wales interfaith dinners, each table in the main hall was named after a virtuous characteristic such as kinship, compassion and hope. The name cards at each seat also had beautiful quotes from the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), such as 'None of you believes until you love for your brother what you love for yourself'.
"Sheikh Yaqoub Kutkut opened the evening with his melodic recitation of the Holy Quran. Professor Saleem Kidwai OBE, Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Wales welcomed everyone in the opening address and a minute of silence was held for the victims of the Christchurch terrorist attack.
A different culture was in evidence in Sri Lanka a few weeks later.
On Easter Sunday, jihadist suicide bombers linked to the Islamic State (IS) group killed at least 253 people and injured some 500 at churches and top-end hotels across Sri Lanka.
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, is visiting Sri Lanka taking a message described by the Rev George Conger on Anglican Unscripted as:
"Why can't we all get along? Why can't we just be nice to Muslims who are killing us when what is needed is someone to speak about regeneration, salvation and suffering through persecution. We don't need the pablum of the liberal democratic West.
"While the Christians there are under fear for their lives the response of the Archbishop of Canterbury, and of Pope Francis, is that if we are only nicer to Muslims, if we make friends with them and go to their house for dinner every so often, then all shall be well.
"The response that Anglican Unscripted was hearing from its followers was: 'You don't understand; these people want to kill us. They believe that it is for them, Muslims, a moral duty to kill the infidel and we are the infidel, to kill the idolator'
"There is a mismatch between the pablum of Western liberal Christianity and the on-the-ground Christianity of the suffering persecuted Church."
Bishop Gavin Ashenden added:
"There is an incredible arrogance too in Christian commentators in the West who keep on saying the problem with these Muslim terrorists is they don't understand Islam like we do. If they only understood Islam properly they would know it was a religion of peace. They would know that they had no proper mandate to do these things. We could indeed explain how they are being bad Muslims and we expect them to stop and in fact we expect them to stop any day soon because they must surely see they are bad Muslims.
"Of course this is completely out of touch with reality on the ground and the dreadful overlaying of an enormously shallow and prejudiced view of a kind of Western liberal relativistic Islam which has nothing to do with the way in which people read the Quran, live in Islamic communities or see their priorities and so it's a way of evading the truth and evading reality and of course above all it is incredibly patronising and detached from reality."
The uniqueness of Christianity appears to be lost on those in authority in the Church of England and the Church in Wales.
Instead of delivering Christ's message that there is only one way to the Father they convey the impression that all religions are basically the same as expressed by the Bishop’s Officer for Interfaith Dialogue in the archiepiscopal diocese of Swansea and Brecon with its coverage of Witchcraft, Atheism, Peace Mala, Hare Krishna, Sufi, Islam, Yungdrung Bön, Judaism and Druids.
Presumably in recognition of such work, Interfaith specialists from Europe and North America will be finding out how Wales "models strong relationships between people of different religions" at a conference next week according to a Church in Wales provincial press release:
"Wales’s First Minister and the Archbishop of Wales will be among those describing pioneering partnership work in Wales at the regional meeting of the Anglican Inter Faith Commission.
"The event takes place at Cardiff’s Pierhead building on September 9. It will be chaired by the Archbishop of Dublin and attended by interfaith specialists from Anglican churches in Europe and North American and also representatives from other faiths and church denominations."
The web site of the Anglican Inter Faith Commission includes AIFC News Feeds, one of which is:
15/03/2019 Church leaders offer prayer and solidarity after New Zealand mosque attacks leaves 49 dead.
Like thousands of other persecuted Christians those murdered in Sri Lanka are quietly forgotten.
No response is expected at the Inter Faith Commission to pleas from the persecuted abroad: 'You don't understand; these people want to kill us. They believe that it is for them, Muslims, a moral duty to kill the infidel and we are the infidel'.
 |
| Peace Mala. The Archbishop of Wales with supporters @StDavidsNeath. Source: Twitter @WelshMuslims |
Postscripts
06.09,2019
Archbishop Welby pontificates on climate change, but clams up on persecution of Christians in India
08.09.2019
From Christian Concern:
The press regulator guidelines on Islamophobia were leaked this week and reveal a serious threat to press freedom when it comes to Islam related issues.
Extracts from Islamic thought police target the press
"Newspapers and magazines are regulated by the Independent Press Standard Organisation (Ipso) which was set up in 2014 following the phone-hacking scandal. For months, Ipso has been working on a project to draft guidance for journalists on how to report on issues connected with Islam and Muslims. Drafts of this guidance were leaked to the thinktank Policy Exchange which has issued a report about the revelations."
"Trevor Phillips, former head of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, wrote: 'If we give way to the demands being made, the only people who will find themselves silenced will be those who want to tell the truth'."
"The freedom of the press is under threat from Muslim activists who want to control what is said about Islam. Ipso, the press regulator, is capitulating to their demands. Unless things change, press freedom is set to fall. Truth will be the victim."
09.09.2019
This morning
The Church in Wales Retweeted
"Dr Angus M Slater
@AngusSlater Very proud to be in Cardiff today with Interfaith Professional Doctorate students from @UWTSDLampeter @UWTSD with the Anglican Communion Network for Interfaith Concerns organised by the @ChurchinWales"
in an earlier tweet:
"Real, practical, and impactful interfaith work with students assisting Anglican Bishops from across Europe and North America in the reading of scriptures in an Interfaith light."
[My emphasis - ED.]
They could make a start by reading the scriptures in a traditional Christian light.
16.09.2019
Koran read at Westminster Abbey as Royal Cathedral bows to Islam
“By welcoming an uncritical reading of the Koran, Westminster Abbey asserts the legitimacy of Mohammad and in so doing repudiates Jesus.”
“Reading the Koran in cathedrals is sometimes seen as a sign of civility, hospitality or inclusion. Instead, it validates Islam’s teaching that is predicated on the claim that the resurrection was a fraud and Jesus lied to his followers and the world.”
Granted, AB, that Islam is alien to us, there would be enormous pressure on any Christian leader who refused to participate in an occasional multi-Faith service. The State would ask, Whatever your differences, do you not accept that you worship the same God? Are you maintaining that Muslims worship the demonic? Is that really yohr position?
ReplyDeleteI confess, multi-Faith services fill me with unease, yet a refusal will come across as intolerance. Even though fullness of truth lies, we believe, with Christianity, it is not an easy decision. Certainly society would not understand a refusal.
Rob
Rob, I have made my position clear in a number previous entries, for example, it cannot be a coincidence that it is nice to talk in countries where Islam is a minority religion while non-Muslims are oppressed in Islamic states.
DeleteNote the double standards here https://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/2015/12/they-still-dont-get.html
See also https://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.com/2015/09/interfaith-meeting-to-aid-spread-of.html
Enter 'jihad' in the search box for plenty more.
The vengeful god of Islam bears no similarity with the Christian God of mercy who sent his Son as Saviour for all mankind.
That is whole argument for not agreeing to sanction such alleged multi faith events.
Delete“Society would not understand a refusal”,you say.
My contention is that we are called to help ‘society’ understand the errors embodied in Islam,witchcraft for eg. and present the Truth of the Incarnation. It is never our duty to water down our faith.
Problem is, society regards all "truths" about religion as equally valid (except perhaps for very extreme/fundamentalist versions). We may well believe that Christianity is true and that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. However society will say, "Fine, that's what you say; other religions make equally strong claims. It's up to us which we should accept".
DeleteOf course, Christianity in Britain (just as, say, Islam in Saudi Arabia) has enjoyed a somewhat privileged existence for many centuries; it has been accepted by most people as "right". That's no longer the case, and we have to argue its claims in the public square - just as the first Christians had to do in the cities of Greece and Rome. We remember that St. Paul said, "By all means, we persuade some" - we can't just assume that folk will believe because we say so!
I see where you're coming from, Rob, and you're largely right, I'm sure, in your suggestion that 'society would not understand a refusal'.
ReplyDeleteBut the average thoughtful imperial Roman in the street would have similarly viewed the refusal of Christians important enough to be expected to do it to burn a pinch of incense to the divinity of Caesar as inexplicable and socially dubious, given that many an educated Roman didn't take the ceremony with any seriousness. For such folk, the pinch of incense was just something that you did, not unlike Brits in the middle of the last century standing up for the national anthem at the end of a cinema showing. You just did it, without making an enormous thing about it either way.
But for Christians it created a problem with didn't apply to the average educated Roman in the street. Christians held - hold - as a core belief that there is only one God who has no rivals or competitors. Not for them, then, the educated imperial Roman's easy assumption of a theoretically infinite number of deities where one could 'add another' without any harm. So they refused, and sometimes had to take the consequences. It was a principle.
In our contemporary world I think it's difficult for Christians and Muslims to find a way of worshipping together. Not because either is 'demonic'. Not because they don't fundamentally acknowledge the same God. But simply because what they each believe about that God is so different and in many ways so incompatible that it's hard to find a way of doing it which safeguards the integrity of both. Perhaps it's not absolutely impossible. I wouldn't argue that it shouldn't be cautiously explored. But for each side to be 'honest to God', the worship has to be such that a Muslim and a Christian can both worship 'in spirit and in truth'. And that's the hard bit.
I have grave doubts about Inter-faith worship, except perhaps with Jews and even then I'm not sure. However I'm quite sure that there are times when people of faith can and should come together at certain times, while acknowledging their very real differences; perhaps to take part in some kind of community social project or, more specifically, to stand up for faith against an increasingly secular society.
ReplyDeleteMy last church (in England) took part in a Churches' Homeless Winter Shelter. This was an expressly Christian project, yet one year a few Muslims from the local Mosque asked if they could help out. Not only did they do so; but they came of their own free will to our closing celebration service which made no allowances for them whatsoever (although they were publicly thanked, along with many others, for their participation).
By the way, there is sometimes a "Muslims against violence" stall on Queen Street, which I have been pleased to see. I've talked to some of the men at this stall and I must say that their enthusiasm to spread their Muslim message puts most of our congregations' evangelism to shame!
I think to have inter faith meetings and discussion is one thing, however I don't see how we can have inter faith services when we don't believe in each others God ( except for Jews and Christians). It has even gone so far as to include Satan worshippers etc. That surely is a mockery of our faith, especially when held in a church as has happened. It would never be held in a Mosque of course.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the responses. The question rests on whether Christians and Muslims are believed to worship the same God. Obviously no in the case of the Muslim extremists, wheras Christian extremists are called saints and strive for peace.
ReplyDeleteRob
Interestingly enough, I was at a lecture many years ago given by the leader of an Evangelical mission working in the Middle East. He was asked whether Muslims and Christians worship the same God and his reply - which surprised all those present - was that he believed they do. However he added the caveat that he believed the Muslim view and understanding of God to be distorted and needing to be corrected; certainly he himself had been active in evangelisation among Muslim people. Whatever our view on this may be, and without in any way denying our very real differences, we cannot deny that the three Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam share a common root.
DeleteJust be aware of taquia!!!!
ReplyDeleteI am absolutely ashamed of the Christian leaders watering down their faith like this . Why is there a woman in the group wearing a witches hat? This woman represents anti-Christ and there is no logic in her presence.
ReplyDeleteOne good point I note is that the Catholic Archbishop of Cardiff is not present,although without doubt he would have been invited.
Helter skelters and mini golf in Churches and now witches !
The Anglican Church is teaching confusion and destruction.
PP. Totally agree, have dialogue by all means. But worship, devotion, heaven forbids it, if we are true to God's word. The example set my Christian Leaders is appalling. Do note, the Non conformist are not represented either nor are the Jewish Deputies or, the non sacramental Salvationist; but, a witchcraft, satanist and spiritualist are. Don't we have Deliverance Consultants battling these three, it's an insult to those priest who silently work in this battlefield. What next will we have the AB sitting in the Sharia Court Cardiff next. Come on GB, show some bottle and demand some serious accountability and discipline please.
DeleteWhat is even more scary is that the CiW primary school children were invited in to "worship" with the witch ,druid etc
DeleteNever forget taquiyya!!!!!!
ReplyDeletePrecisely. Those who appease the ideology are a) ignorant of the truth as they do no research of their own; Or b) are hoping they'll escape the inevitable consequences of allowing it to become even greater (in numbers) or at least be the last to suffer. Of course, if moslems were great in number in middle and upper class areas, things would be SO much different. Who cares about the poor and working classes? Well, apart from that Jesus fellow who had some very odd ideas.
DeleteReligions are mutually exclusive because they must each claim the truth - that's what religion does. There is no way of accommodating other faiths except in social projects, etc. Anglican bishops indulging in 'interfaith dialogue' need to explain what it is they are trying to achieve. What is it they don't understand about Islam?
ReplyDeleteLW
I remember attending a lecture given by Rabbi Dan Cohn-Sherbok which was hosted by the theology faculty at Cardiff University, 30+ years ago. His thesis was to take all the best bits out of the three great monotheistic religions, Judaism, Islam and Christianity, and form one new religion. Some of the most vocal objections to his ideas came from Anglican students. As some of them have now climbed the greasy pole; orthodoxy has gone out of the window; and experimentation is the order of the day; it appears that their objections have receded. As the Church in Wales dies the death of a thousand cuts, the day might come when we discover an imam in the pulpit and a rabbi leading the service. That said, there will still be 6 bishops, 6 deans and 17 archdeacons because turkeys don't vote for Christmas, but at least the services will be covered.
DeleteSeymour
Another discussion matter missed:
ReplyDeletehttps://t.co/DnWfw9gNQw?ssr=true
Why not adopt the idea of Mgr Ronald Knox in "Reunion all Round" and adapt the 39 Articles to include Islam and then fail to observe them?
ReplyDelete"Many will come saying I am HE..." On closer examination of the group photo I am sickened and ashamed.
ReplyDeletePP. Yesterday in Newport Muslims marched en mass, to remember the victim of a martyr for peace. Assuming wrongly, I assumed aperson had been killed recently! How wrong I was! The commemorations were for mohamads grandson.
ReplyDeleteWhat struck me was in the picture the march stopped outside the salvation army citadel, this was a Sunday and the corps were at worship. The route would latter pass two other Christian places at worship on Stow Hill.
I have no problem with a religious march, but to take place on another religions Sunday, holy day, does nothing to promote peace in a community.
What is equally sad is the mosque in the celebrations was once the largest centre of presbyterian worship.
If our AB is insistant on promoting multifaith collaboration, he could start with asking that Christian Sunday Worship days and holy days are respected too.
Link to article:
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/17904216.muslims-march-newport-honour-martyr-peace/