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| St Davids Bishop-Elect Joanna Penberthy at the 2016 AGM of MAE Cymru Source: Pobl Dewi |
" While we, as bishops, welcome the decision that women can now be ordained as bishops in Wales, we recognise that there are some people who do not. We want to make sure that adequate provision is made for them so that they will still feel valued and accepted in the Church and will continue to worship and minister alongside us."
- Archbishop Barry Morgan
MAE Cymru's latest Newsletter contains this highly prejudiced piece of misandry from its Llandaff division:
This from an organisations that claims: "We are a group of people with a vision of the Church in Wales as a community of God’s people where, regardless of gender, justice and equality prevail."
The obvious conclusion is that MAE Cymru is a sexist organisation which has no intention of honouring the Code of Practice which was drawn up after the admission of women to the episcopate. - See Acceptable pastoral and sacramental ministry.
Under the Code [2.] "Individual members of the Church in Wales who, on grounds of conscience, are unable to receive the sacramental ministry of a woman diocesan bishop, shall not be required to do so against their conscience, and alternative provision shall be made."
MAE Cymru's Llandaff Link, Jenny Wigley, was co-conspirator with Peggy Jackson in designing the voluntary code that replaced the statutory provisions proposed by the bench of bishops.
Taken with Archdeacon Peggy Jackson's 'divisive' motion [page 9 of the link] at the Governing Body of the Church in Wales that bishops no longer hold separate ordinations for those who refuse the sacramental ministry of women, it is clear that there was never any intention of carrying out the archbishop's pledge to make acceptable provision for loyal Anglicans who are unable on grounds of conscience to accept the sacramental ministry of women.
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| The Jackson/Wigley Morgan partnership Photos: Church in Wales |
Not one of the bishops voted against Peggy Jackson's divisive motion. Two, Joanna Penberthy and Andy John, actually voted in favour of it!
None of the male bishops in the Church in Wales has shown any sympathy for Anglicans who are unable in conscience to accept the sacramental ministry of women. Bishop Philip North does and pays a heavy price for his faith. Jenny Wigley's attack is the latest of many, particularly from Women and the Church, MAE Cymru's affiliate.
Canon Wigley and her companions show no understanding of Anglican orthodoxy which binds together most of the Anglican Communion. The Church in Wales is among its smallest of provinces. A province that has chosen, unilaterally, to be guided not by scripture and tradition but by the spirit of the age.
Their message is for love and understanding, welcoming the marginalised but strictly on their own terms. Their vision of justice and equality for the Church in Wales is perverse. They accuse others of discrimination while displaying it themselves.
Recently the Archbishop of Wales, John Davies, was ‘honoured and humbled’ to be awarded an honorary doctorate (Doctor of Divinity) by the University of Wales Trinity Saint David in recognition of his services to the Church in Wales and of his leadership across faith communities.
That is all except orthodox Anglicans who keep the faith.
Reading that MAE Cymru comment on the Llandaff confirmation, the question which springs to mind is, "what makes this rage and spite?"
ReplyDeleteI would recommend a compare & contrast of Bishop Philip's twitter feed & that of Mae Cymru. Look where Bishop Philip is now, with whom, and doing what.
Then compare it with the introspective clique featured on the MAE Cymru twitter feed & newsletter, and what they do in their 'Exclusive Church' way.
Perhaps to answer my own question, it is Bishop Philip's capacity and zeal to communicate the Christian faith to all God's people which provokes MAE Cymru's rage & spite - regardless of whether they are for or against women priests. The Bishop was also an invited speaker at New Wine & has been publicly supported by women bishops whom he also supports in true mutual flourishing.
No comment on the latest folly at Rochester Cathedral? A golf course in the nave. I am reminded of Malcolm Muggeridge's reference to the pianist in a brothel who plays a verse or two of 'Abide with me' in the vain hope of edifying the clientele.
ReplyDeleteRob
Isn't this something of which "Barry the Golfer" would heartily approve? Certainly the word "crazy" would apply to what has happened to the C in W in recent years. As for the latest biased comments against Bishop Philip North - there doesn't seem to be much in the way of "mutual flourishing" in the Principality.
DeleteAnyone who missed the Rochester Cathedral story can read about the sacrilege at https://www.julesgomes.com/single-post/catholic-fury-over-sacrilege-at-st-john-fishers-rochester-cathedral?utm_campaign=1225b3f0-63b4-4215-a579-17f1c0660b49&utm_source=so
DeletePP. This is so very disheartening. It is clear +June is not being bias, she appears to be listening or why would she want Phillip in her Cathedral, if it's a women tor de force stronghold?
ReplyDeleteCould this possibly be a clue for Monmouth?
Who know where MAE are going, but up a creek without a paddle seems most likely.
firstly let me disclose my position: I accept the sacramental ministry of women priests and defend that position theologically (as did ++ Michael Ramsey - in the end). But i accept that many do not and respect that. Some people insist that Chinese food is better than Indian curry. It will always be a matter of emotion rather than logic (viz EU referendum 2 years ago). But I applaud + June for inviting + North who is, from anyone's point of view, a communicating Christian focused on social justice and the gospel. I look forward (no pun intended) to seeing him.
ReplyDeletePutting theological arguments aside for just a moment, it is clear that female representation in the ministry is growing rapidly and within a few years they will become the majority. The question is, what will the effect be in practical terms, and do they know what they are doing?
ReplyDeleteLW
80% of the clergy in Sweden are female and look what a dynamic (they have a female archbishop), growing (take the sheer numbers {!!}coming from Islam to Christ) and theologically sound (they voted in their synod for gender neutral pronouns to be used to describe God) ministry they have.
DeletePostie
https://www.thelocal.se/20170411/swedes-leave-church-because-they-dont-believe-in-god.
Delete80,000 left the Swedish church in 2017
LW
June should do to Jenny Wigley what she did when people wrote to her complaining about the lack of consultation over the 'resource' church in Cathays: ignore it! She is the Ordinary, and has the right to invite into the Diocese whomsoever she wishes. Not only is she listening, but she recognises that, insofar as she can, she needs to be a focus for unity. Wigley, Jackson and the rest of them are only interested in division and ideological partisanship.
DeleteIf Jenny "the Meth" Wigley is anywhere near it, then it will be an Exclusive Church. Her and Peggy 'the Pilot' represent a horrible, cancerous cell that has now engulfed the Church in Wales. A "theology" (I use the term as loosely as possible) of 'unless you're with us, you're against us'; of the Holy Name being used in like manner of failed (and current) Labour political mantra; of ensuring that they cling to the 'leadership' like effluent to the sole of a shoe.
ReplyDeleteJune is recognised as having a unique skillset - and many of the MAECymru team probably popped the corks of their bottles of Cava once her elevation was announced. That June has been generous/pragmatic enough to reach out to the traditionalist faithful within the diocese is to be applauded - but one place it would not be well received would be by MAECymru (whose membership secretary coincidentally is the Archdeacon of Llandaff... and whose Diocesan Rep is the alleged-canon Wigley).
The band of grey, dull, self-affirming cr*p that Messers Wigley, Jackson and their Wiccan ilk have been passing off as "feminism, equality and justice" does a disservice to so many within the Church, lay and ordained, male and female, traditional and liberal. It's no wonder that Bazza, before heading off to the Golf Course, openly made it clear to Peggy that he would not let her pilot his Cathedral as Dean (enabling a certain Antiques Dealer to open a branch up on Cathedral Green), and disparaged the home-grown "Tenna Taffia" of Wigley, Stallard et al. as "not being bishop material". Whilst we all know that certainly is a case of pot calling the kettle 'noir', it has been clear that the tough Tanna Taffia, having burnt their bras and subverted the faithful at every turn, are slowly and quietly realising that their hands will never grasp the greasy crozier.
DewiResistance
Will they never stop persecuting and haranguing people who have a sincere belief theologically? Silence and eliminate seems to be the mantra. Really disturbing to see those who claim to promote inclusion try to exclude so vehemently. PJ overplayed her hand at GB with her Haman like attempt at theological 'cleansing' but it seems she hasn't learnt her lesson.
ReplyDeleteAs the Americans are in the habit of saying, you can't teach stupid!
DeleteWhat a nasty, spiteful, vindictive message to come from people who purport to be Christian priests! The message once again is "You're welcome as long as you accept OUR beliefs." They behave like a bunch of immature students in their adoption of the so-called "no platform" policy. If the future of the C in W is in these hands, the message they clearly promote is not one of mutual flourishing and respect but one of division and rancour. Deus misereatur!
ReplyDeleteChallenger
The irony is not lost on anyone.
DeleteWhen the issue of women being priested first raised its head over 30 years ago, anyone (especially men) who said to them "You're welcome as long as you accept OUR beliefs" was treated to masses of abuse of various sorts, being called chauvinist being the least of it.
Anyone remember the harassment and abuse directed towards the then Bishop of Llandaff for voting against women priests - until he was bullied into changing his mind and then everything was "in order" - the new order!
Just to say to all who remember Bishop Roy Davies of Llandaff with affection: it is the sixth anniversary of his death on Wednesday, 7 August. He confirmed me many moons ago, and I measure all other bishops by his stature. The bunch today don't even come up to his shoe laces, with their doctorates and honorary doctorates.
DeleteI pray that God will grant him eternal rest and, at length, bring him with all his saints to a joyful resurrection.
Seymour
Well said, Seymour. Bp Roy also confirmed me and nurtured my vocation like the true Father he was to us all. His care, humour and faith are missed so much in the church militant.
DeletePP. Reading the press article on the CinW website +Johanna St David's, is certainly a theologian of some note.
ReplyDeletehttps://stdavids.churchinwales.org.uk/news/2019/07/bishop-joanna-phd/
Earning a PhD is no mean feat, credit where credit is due. Make the MAE recent activities laughable.
All Phds are not equal as they depend on the institution which awards them.
DeleteHowever, did you read the summary of what she had researched?
ReplyDeleteRob
PP. The summary is online at the Uni Web. Very interesting paper. Can't say I fully understand it, but it's certainly a strong thesis Rob.
ReplyDeleteCertainly not Theological!!
ReplyDeleteCatnap
I simply wondered from the summarised conclusions whether it was worth ten year's work, that's all.
ReplyDeleteRob
I wonder what would happen if MAECYMRU, having achieved equality for both genders in all three historic orders of ministry in the Church in Wales, turned its attention to other inequalities and injustices, for which there is considerable warrant in Holy Scripture and the Christian tradition more widely? I am thinking of those people whom Bishop Philip North is championing in the North-West of England, notably the poor, those whose life chances are limited because economic and social disparity, strangers and exiles who are demonised, and all minorities in both the church and wider society. Such inequalities are no less evident in Wales.
ReplyDeleteWhat this grubby little stamping-feet epistle to June Osborne shows us is that MAECYMRU is a myopic, bigoted side-show. It is only interested in favouring those who are doing nicely out of the system, is scared to death that their tenuous campaigning will be revealed for what it is, and the gravy train will be stopped in its tracks.
Some aspects of June Osborne's management style (both in Llandaff and Salisbury) may leave a lot to be desired. However, on this one, she has chosen the better part and demonstrated decisively that equality is a much bigger issue. It's a pity MAECYMRU don't seem to recognise it, too.
To be scrupulously fair to June, when she was Dean of Salisbury, she was always very welcoming and gracious when the Bishop of Ebbesfleet came to Salisbury Cathedral to celebrate a Chrism Mass. She would not only attend and show complete sensitivity regarding her own involvement in the liturgy, but invariably the Bishop of Ebbesfleet's sermon would be put on the Cathedral website. In that sense, she is being absolutely consistent about her treatment of minorities. As for Peggy the Pilate and Wigley the Meth... still waging old battles and showing very clearly that their agenda is one of division and spitefulness, rather than good disagreement and a genuine desire to live with difference. The sooner they disappear into the sunset of retirement, the better able the Church will be to move forward in new directions.
ReplyDeleteI hope you won't mind an occasional interested outsider commenting, but I am struck (if this blog is anything to go by) by the degree to which old enmities are fuelling unnecessary division and giving oxygen to fires that should have burned-out long ago - and that all the energy for this is being generated by the so-called progressives!
ReplyDeleteI am training for ordination in what, traditionally, would have been called a 'progressive' theological college. It is interesting that a number of traditionalist catholics are among our number, and that their presence is creating a greater sense of graciousness and respect: as much for them as for those who are LGBT+ for example. In particular, I am struck by how my fellow female ordinands are very relaxed and at ease with traditionalist catholics and their theological convictions (and vice-versa). There is a clear sense that the battles of the past are long behind us. More importantly, we are agreed that there are so many other areas of life where true equality is not a reality - not least among the poor and economically marginalised.
In the same spirit, when several traditionalist catholic ordinands from the London Diocese asked to be ordained by the Bishop of Fulham, following the enthronement of Bishop Mullally, there was no bullying to conform to a supposed 'new' orthodoxy; but a straightforward recognition that the Church of England has committed to mutual flourishing. As Diocesan Bishop, Dame Mullally too the lead in modelling this.
It was often said (and still may be) that the Church in Wales is like the Church of England was several decades ago. When I read this blog, and reports of groups like MAECYMRU, it is sad to realise that this is still true.
May be June Osborne (like Cyrus after the Exile) will be instrumental in charting a new way forward for the Church in Wales that is more gracious and genuinely inclusive. I hope she will re-ignite her passion for tackling injustice that was so evident when she served in the East End, by speaking-up for those who are excluded. She has begun well by inviting Bishop Philip North to confirm in her Diocese. For that, genuine progressives can only say 'Thank be to God.'