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| Bishop of Liverpool Paul Bayes Source: Christian Today |
Bishop Bayes told the Guardian: “Some of the things that have been said by religious leaders seem to collude with a system that marginalises the poor, a system which builds walls instead of bridges, a system which says people on the margins of society should be excluded, a system which says we’re not welcoming people any more into our country.
That's rich coming from one of the Church of England's senior bishops who is to chair a new charity aimed at promoting greater acceptance of LGBT people.
Most of the bishops of the Church of England along with the bench of bishops of the Church in Wales have no problem with marginalising faithful Anglicans, building walls to exclude them for remaining faithful to scripture and tradition.
The Bishop of Liverpool is to chair a new charity aimed at promoting greater acceptance of LGBT people by working with religious organisations around the world. He has been named as chair of the Ozanne Foundation, whose director Jayne Ozanne is a high-profile Anglican activist for LGBT inclusivity.
The Ozanne Foundation believes in a world where "all are accepted and equally valued", implying that they are not despite their over representation from bishops' thrones to church
The charity's trustees and council of reference include the Dean of St Paul's, David Ison, Rev Steve Chalke, Ben Bradshaw MP and the Dean of St Albans, Jeffrey John, someone well known to readers for his personal interpretation of scripture in support of personal preferences.
Bayes said: "The Church of England has committed herself to what our Archbishops have called radical new Christian inclusion, and has publicly stated that we are against all forms of homophobia. If we mean this, and I believe we do, then we need to find appropriate ways of welcoming and affirming LGBTI people who want their love recognised by the Church."
The duplicity is mind blowing. Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are not excluded from the church. They appear to be in the driving seat. To claim that their 'love' is not recognised by the Church without a shred of supporting evidence is disgraceful when same sex marriage is clearly the objective.
Love has many forms. To imply that love is not recognised by people who are opposed to the redefinition of marriage is not just unworthy of the bishop, it is difficult to understand how people holding such views can justify their Christian faith.
You have hit the nail on the head again, yet we do not hear this viewpoint - the traditional one - expressed at the C in W's governing body. The Anglican laity, in my view, have failed the Church in this respect in recent years. They could have stopped the rot.
ReplyDeleteRob
A spectacularly naiive and ill-informed suggestion.
DeleteWhere have you been for the last 20 years?
Darth --Insidious spent his entire reign removing and replacing any clergy or laity that did not agree with or tow the party line in the requisite sub-serviant manner.
Any dissent was dealt with ruthlessly.
Hence the disappearance of the well-loved and greatly missed Llandaffchester Chronicles and the existence of this Blog.
Have you only recently moved to Llandaff?
Again these theological pygmies confuse the radical invitation of the Gospel for this novelty of radical inclusion. Come as you are but repent take up your cross,deny yourself and follow Christ. Still the accommodation of 2% of the population drives the change of the faith once delivered to the saints.
ReplyDeleteIf combative Simon had only considered the argument - it's not a compicated one - instead of rushing to insult, he might have been more just. It is for the very reason that laypeople have nothing to lose (except their integrity) that they might indeed have stopped the rot. Unlike the clergy they cannot be bullied, so they could have stood against the liberal line.
ReplyDeleteRob
The text-book Johnny-come-lately.
DeleteUnlike the laity who have been bullied and speak from experience (suggest you read the poison pen letter to Mrs X from the Antiques dealer squatting in the Llandaff Deanery), you clearly do not.
Your insults are stronger than your arguments.
DeleteIt remains true that the laity have nothing to lose. They were elected to the GB by other lay people and can vote according to their consciences.
They are less likely to be manipulated. Read what I write, if you please!
Rob
Most lay people don't know they have a lay rep on GB, and those that are on, go with the flow. Many have been on for decades, such a shame people don't have to stand down after their stint and allow new blood.
DeleteBishops do take out their wrath of lay reps disobedience by punishing the Parish they are from.
What we need to realize is this:
Delete1. Sadly, most of the laity on the Governing Body do not know what the Christian Gospel says or even care what it says. However, when people are herded towards ordination without proper training, the resulting clergy do not know what the Christian Gospel is about. How are the laity ever going to be taught the Gospel and its implications for life?
2. Most of the laity do not know what orthodox Christianity involves. They live with the idea that Jesus was a really nice bloke who said yes to everything and everyone. When faced with moral situations, they think that by voting yes to everything the bench-sitters bring forward to the GB, they are being just as nice as their version of "gentle Jesus, meek and mild". What they cannot see is the Church is called to be prophetic. It is called to stand aloof from society, rather than jump into bed with it. In his letter to the Romans, St Paul says that Church is called to go and transform the world, not be conformed to it.
3. The laity unfortunately listen the bench of charlatans who masquerade as orthodox upholders of truth and doctrine; whereas the purple-shirt brigade are, to quote the Lord's words, "hirelings of the flock" who care nothing about the sheep who have been entrusted to their charge.
4. The Doctrinal Commission of the Church in Wales is itself self-serving and self-seeking. When the laity are faced with a report that claims black is white and white is black and the moon is made of cream cheese; and it has the full backing of the bench of charlatans; they cannot be blamed for voting in favour of it.
5 If the DCCiW or the bench of charlatans had to stand before any of the historical Ecumenical Councils of the Church, they would be condemned as heretics. If they lived in Marian or Elizabethan England, they would have been burned at the stake, "for the good of their souls" of course.
6 Sadly, what we must realize is that the Church in Wales is in its death throes. The current Archbishop has signalled that he intends to follow the same path as his predecessor. Liberalism has been a death sentence to every Church that has fallen under its spell. Ironically, His Grace lectures his diocese about doing the same old thing week in and week out; and tells them that they must try something new. Perhaps now would be a good time for him to practise what he preaches. Quite clearly, liberalism has failed miserably, so the bench obviously need to do something new.
Seymour Clearly
Very well said, Seymour, couldn't agree more.
DeleteExpanding on point one......there now seems two ways into ordination, one being the local ordained ministry with hardly any training, which then becomes full time once people are needed. In Monmouth local ordained ministers are moved to a new Church if needed, or go full time if the person wishes. But training for full time is not adequate either, I recall a friend asking his new vicar what she thought about the Bible, and she replied that she didn't know much about it! He left that church.......
Let's pray that out of the ashes of the CiW Wales rises orthodox faith or that C of E Bishops can take in Anglo Catholic and Evangelical Parishes somehow......
Danny Jones
Pondering Pastor: if this is the state of the Church, what hope for a revival? If as stated there is a two tier training programme that "fast tracks ordinands without ensuring both a clear understanding and commitment to scriptures, theology and academic standing, are we better for this move, or failing.
ReplyDeleteNotably in one diocese, candidates who are rejected at provincial panel are now being reviewed and where possible ordained anyway. What happened to scrutiny.
Are we that desensitizing to the liberalisation that anyone can literally become minister of the Gospel. Perhaps the laity should speak out.
PP, the truth of the matter is that if you attended any ordination service here in Wales, you would get the distinct impression that if the cathedral cat managed to get into the line up, it would leave with a dog collar and a title parish.
DeleteOnly a few years ago, the bench sitters claimed that if someone was ordained to NSM ministry, they would not be able to move to full-time ministry. If they were ordained as OLMs, they would not be able to move from their sponsoring parish. In order to maintain the smoke and mirrors, and stop people panicking that we have not got enough clergy; those guideline have been torn up and the bench sitters do their own thing.
I know of one curate who was ordained without a day's theological training and he was promised that the training would be given whilst he did the job. To date, no theological or pastoral training has been given, and four years has elapsed since his ordination.
I know of another curate in our diocese, who failed at the selection process for full-time ministry; was advised to try Ordained Local Ministry as a sop by his bishop. He was accepted for OLM, and a year into ministry his bishop moved him to stipendiary ministry. The guy is clueless. The selection board was right in its initial judgement; and one day, a parish and God's faithful people are going to get him as their parish priest.
When we have this deception being played out by the bench sitters; and we have clergy coming through who cannot teach or preach the Christian Gospel, what hope is there ever going to be that the laity will hold the hierarchy to account? Ignorance among us pew sitters is wonderful as far as the bench sitters are concerned; because whilst we are ignorant of the things of God, they can pursue their secular and liberal agenda unchallenged. We are fast becoming, if we are not already there, a humanist cult. The Church in Wales has "Ichabod" - "the glory of the Lord has departed" written all over it. I suspect the good Lord abandoned the Church in Wales years ago, which is why we have seen continuous decline. If you read the letters to the seven churches in Revelation, the risen Lord warns the churches that if they cannot be faithful to their calling, then he will remove their lampstand from its place. The CiW's lampstand was removed a long time ago, and what we are left with now is a wheel that keeps turning even though the hamster died years ago.
Seymour Clearly
Seymour Clearly, you have hit many nails bang on the head. Your analysis of the ‘state of the nation’ of the CiW is devastating accurate. It has always been the boast of the Anglican church in this country that it has a presence in every community across the land. I challenge any reader of this blog to walk around any of our cities next week and see how many churches are actually open every day, or even open any day. This new breed of CEO bishop should do a time and motion study on their workforce. I rather think that it won’t take too much time to figure out that there is too much of the wrong type of ‘motion’.
DeleteDevastating but true Seymour.
DeleteIt remains true that the laity have produced sterling examples of faithful Christian apologists: Lord Acton, G. K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis and Malcolm Muggeridge, to name but a few.
ReplyDeleteRob
Devastating but true Seymour.
DeletePondering Pastor: this interesting article about seminary training, reflect the above concerns. Basically stating it needs to be far harder and academically heavy. Good read too. We done have a seminary in Wales, do we? More distance learning and workshop based.happy to be corrected mind.
Deletehttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/whatgodwantsforyourlife/2017/12/4-reasons-seminary-shouldnt-hard-harder/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=FBCP-PRX&utm_content=whatgodwantsforyourlife