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| Provincial news: Pride Cymru Source: Church in Wales |
After 14 years in office as Archbishop of Wales, this is his legacy. A gay pride event fronted by the first woman bishop in the Church in Wales, highlighted as Provincial news on the Church in Wales web site under the headline "Bishop celebrates at Pride Cymru".
Supported by predominantly women clergy, the bishop of St Davids will "take part in a discussion about faith and sexuality" before "leading Pride’s first ever Communion service". Penarth assistant curate, the Revd Rosemary Hill, will be talking about "bi-sexual Christianity" and later Newport assistant curate, the Revd James Henley, will discuss "belonging in a disconnected world". On Sunday, the Revd Rhian Linecar, Cardiff assistant curate, will lead Taize sung prayer and meditation, no doubt on an 'inclusive' theme.
FaithTent coordinator, the Revd Delyth Liddell, said, “We are delighted to be welcoming our first ever Bishop to the #FaithTent this year, Bishop Joanna".
In one small step towards the bishop of Llandaff's goal of parity, the omnipresent cleric at 'inclusion' events, Canon Aled Edwards, chief executive of Cytun, Churches Together, will talk about “Open Inclusive Nation” before leading the closing thanksgiving service.
Deemed by Archbishop Morgan to be the 'best person to be a bishop', Joanna Penberthy was reported to have been elected in a 'stitch up'. Could her LGBT credentials have been why? The news of her election was welcomed by one gay priest on Thinking Anglicans as "Wonderful news - for Wales and for the LGBT Community in the Church".
Given that her name had been circulating months before her election it should have come as no surprise but it did for those who believed that the work of the Holy Spirit could not be manipulated. One former Archbishop actually described the loss of the vote for woman priests as the work of the Devil.
If twenty years of women priests culminating in a bishop favouring the gay community over cradle Anglicans whose only desire has been to worship as the Holy Spirit moves them, the Archbishop could have been right but on the wrong occasion.
Given that her name had been circulating months before her election it should have come as no surprise but it did for those who believed that the work of the Holy Spirit could not be manipulated. One former Archbishop actually described the loss of the vote for woman priests as the work of the Devil.
If twenty years of women priests culminating in a bishop favouring the gay community over cradle Anglicans whose only desire has been to worship as the Holy Spirit moves them, the Archbishop could have been right but on the wrong occasion.
Presumably, then, the task of a bishop in the Church in Wales today in Barry Morgan's book is to advance Queer Theology. Joanna Penberthy has been most conspicuous by her presence at all things gay but little else from Church in Wales news reports.
Looking back, bishop Penberthy was to the fore in Victims last December and in Church in Crisis in February this year. More recently she preached at the Welsh National Eisteddfod on 'diversity', reported more accurately elsewhere as LGBTQIA+.
The first woman bishop is no longer alone. The new bishop of Llandaff, June Osborne has a similar LGBT agenda.
The bishop of St Davids participation in Pride Cymru's Gay Weekend in Cardiff brings more LGBT 'good news' from one who has become a peripatetic ambassador for the LGBTQIA+ agenda, moving from diocese to diocese to welcome those who claim to be unwelcome despite all the evidence to the contrary. It is a ploy. Their aim is same sex marriage in church.
The bishop of St Davids participation in Pride Cymru's Gay Weekend in Cardiff brings more LGBT 'good news' from one who has become a peripatetic ambassador for the LGBTQIA+ agenda, moving from diocese to diocese to welcome those who claim to be unwelcome despite all the evidence to the contrary. It is a ploy. Their aim is same sex marriage in church.
So this is Barry Morgan's legacy. A queered church motivated by illiberal 'liberal' clergy with a bishop in St Asaph taking on the mantle of Self inflicted pain while leaving traditional Anglicans with nothing but memories to support their faith.
Barry Morgan's successor as Archbishop must break his secularist mould and return the Church to spirituality.
Update [27.08.2017]
"Bishop's Pride Cymru involvement 'fantastic'" - Rev Delyth Liddell faith tent coordinator.
The faith tent coordinator is a Methodist minister and University Chaplain. In a BBC video interview she highlighted the leadership of the bishop of St Davids. Liddell claimed that LGBT people "would not be allowed to receive Communion" and "would not be welcome in church" which is what made the bishop's Eucharistic celebration so "fantastic".
As a Methodist minister Liddell may be ale to back up her claim but not in the Church in Wales. In reality I suspect it is just another 'persecution' claim built on fantasy as was bishop Penberthy's claim of discrimination which on examination turned out to be nothing more than someone taking an opposing view to hers.
Is she, (Bishop of St Davids) the one wearing the episcopal pink T shirt on the right?
ReplyDeleteNo, I think that's Tinkerbell from Peter Pan, although, on second thoughts......
DeleteWell Father David and Enforcer ,you are likely to see the LBGT Bishop advocate wearing (sorry about this) a vagina shaped balloon on her head. This novelty mitre was pioneered by Leanne Wood in last year's march.
ReplyDeleteThe Taize worship and chants are intended for the worship of God and not for promotion of LGBT ideology .
Their behaviour is sacrilegious .
Hijacking the worship of God ,whether in Church or on such unseemly and provocative marches to promote a lifestyle, does not draw the participants closer to Christianity.
What a shameful lady 'bishop'.
They are no longer bishops. They are elders impersonating bishops. This is the alternative 'Gay Protestant Church in Wales', and it is doubtful whether they are even protestant.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete'Pride comes before a fall'.
ReplyDeleteAmen to that 3d and the sooner the better. I hope that we are both there to scatter the pieces and build a new Church. D.V.
DeleteIn this 200 Anniversary year of the Beddgelert Revival which came about as people were moved by the Holy Spirit as the Word of God was faithfully preached we must grieve over the apostasy (and yes that is what it is) of the Church in Wales and pray fervently that God will confound this attack of the devil and nerve his faithful people in the CiW to stand up and be counted.
ReplyDeleteWell said Andrew. Later,not far away up the valley, in the village of Llanberis, a Tractarian vicar drew crowds to the Welsh sung evensong (Gosper) to hear him preach at St Padarn's Church. Also, the quarry village of Deiniolen, another Tractarian vicar broke out praising God in the middle of the service in what was described as "strange vowels".
DeleteWhat can we say to these things save but the ' Mystery of God', for this "Our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full convicton". Often godly clergy of the Church of England (in Wales) would often face the wrath of a grumpy bishop, (by divine permission) for any such manifistation. I guess Leanne Wood & Co would describe'Gay Pride' as brining revival to Wales? Hit me again please!!
Return the church to Christianity morelike AB.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about the godly Anglicans of the Clapham Sect who were true social reformers campaigning against the injustice of slavery through a deep conviction in the teaching of scripture.
Sadly, it seems some of our leaders are the antithesis of these shining lights who cow-tow the court of secular and (illiberal) liberal opinion. Why can't they just promote the faith 'once delivered to the saints'. Jesus was not radically inclusive in the absolute sense. Yes, come as you are but, 'repent and be ye converted' and 'take up your cross and follow' him.
The Gospel message is a message of radical invitation which is inclusive of all. How can this simple, obvious truth metamorphosise into 'anything goes' is beyond me. This nonsense promulgated by our former Archbishop that scripture must be re-interpreted in each generation led to his outrageous claim that the NT writers accepted the evil of slavery. I cringe inwardly when Clergy regurgitate this spurious 'principle' of hermeneutics.
The sad thing is they probably think they are the inheritors of the great church social reformers. I'm afraid this is a delusion which will ultimately lead to the irretrievable heterodoxy of the CiW.
I tend to express things rather more strongly than you do Whamnab but there is a lot at stake. There was a time when every faithful soul had earned his or her place amongst God's people. Do you remember when we were exhorted to confess our "manifold sins and wickedness" in order that we might strive for "righteousness of life"? Now all that the CiW demands is a race for the bottom. (no pun intended).
DeleteThe Ice Maiden of the North and her two sisters in purple are fond of banging on about an "inclusive" church but inclusivty as understood by the illiberals is not a theological concept and nothing has caused more division and destruction in recent times except that odd notion that despite our "Manifold sins and wickedness" we are all created in the image of God.
This is not the Faith of our Fathers once given to the Apostles for seamless transmission to the faithful in every age.
All that the CiW now has to offer is damaged goods.
Some of us still do "acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness" - every Sunday morning at eight o'clock.
ReplyDeleteHaving been brought up in the Anglican Church in Wales, in the 50s and 60s, when it was still solidly orthodox it grieves me now, as a conservative Anglican living in England, to see the sad state of the Church in Wales. Things are better in England, but we too seem to be on the same path to heterodoxy and alienation from God's truth "once delivered to all the saints". Fortunately there are still a number of faithful Biblically led Anglican churches, amidst a sea of confused and decaying liberalism. I do hope that in Wales as elsewhere God raises up good faithful ministers who preach the Word, as it was given to us, and faithfully celebrate the sacraments. A remnant will survive, because this has been promised to us.
ReplyDeletePondering Pastor. Faithful stewards of the Word will always appear at the right time. They may not be welcomed or, even understood, but the pure message of sacramental holiness will shine through example.
ReplyDeleteRevival comes in many forms, the key is to pray it in, knowing that God's timing will always be spot on.
Women in leadership may for some be an anathema, for others a blessing. The key is to look beyond the gender to the vessel God is using. We all need to remember, we cannot all agree on theological thesis but we can agree on one point alone: we are all called to serve a living Saviour.
God will always work through mysterious ways and our role is to be part of the wonder, the majesty of His love working through the body of Christ.
Having seen many a congregation under the leadership of a women, revive, grow and repair in other denominations, perhaps it's time to wait on God and tarry at His footstool and watch and wait. The proof of a good leader, is seen in there fruit production, but the harsh reality of pruning has to come first, for new shoots to grow. I see the changes in our Church episcopal level as a force for good, but the pain we now feel, is the result of decay, illgrafted branches and ego being the substance of poisoning the vine. The dark night of the soul is upon us, but, as we come through the night our soul searching as a Church, the body of Christ, we become better vessels and servants. Let God be the umpire of our faith setting aside theological thesis, and letting grace do her perfect work.
In the Incarnation God assumes humanity and in the Catholic Church, the Resurrected Body of Christ in the world, which is His Church, that principle continues, the natural logic of the Trinity. Now let Bishops June and Joanna be warned, whether they are to listen or not, that episcopacy has assumed the feminine but should the feminine assume episcopacy then the temple of God will be destroyed. Look at 1 Cor 3.17. for the consequences. This blog has attested to the terrible truth therein time and time again. Temple in Welsh is feminine, as feminine as the Virgin Mary- who is rarely mentioned by them. Why? because they don't believe that she is worth knowing. Thank God Her Son still thinks the world of her.
ReplyDeleteWell said 3d. I take heart from the fact that the Wench of Abergwili is "cooking her own goose" far more effectively than her critics. Just look at her track record. She travels to Ynys Mon and alienates the people there and the Eisteddfodwyr by reading parrot fashion the apocryphal gospel according to the LGBT lobby. Next she turns up in Cardiff singing her silly head off. (look at the BBC footage).
ReplyDeleteThis woman has not proclaimed the wholesome Gospel of Jesus Christ since she was inveigled into office. Twice she has abandoned her diocese for extended periods of time in favour of militant misfits.
The Christian people of Ty Ddewi need to reject her and send her packing.
She is using the diocese as a platfeom and the faithful souls as pawns.
Mrs Penberthy just seeks to be popular,and she will jump through any hoop to get this .
ReplyDeleteSaint Non is doing overtime - all the time.
ReplyDeleteIndefatigable prayer-you know humility works!
Saint Non is consumed with pain upon seeing her son's legacy trashed on the streets of Cardiff 3d. I do not think that those misfits understand the meaning of the word "Prayer".
DeleteAn afterthought 3d. Ancient sources record that Non's son, "The Waterman" was a very hard taskmaster who demanded absolute fidelity to the Gospel and unwavering discipline to the Christian rule in which he and his followers lived. He would rebuke the wayward harshly and uncompromisingly and was known to cuff the lagardly.
DeleteThe Wench of Abergwili would not last 2 seconds on his return.
All staged managed by the coward (llwfrgi) himself. He hasn't changed since he was at school.
ReplyDeleteWe use the word "Cachgi" in my neck of the woods Leslie but we are in complete agreement. The second sentence of your post intrigues me. I have heard it said that he who grew up to be Darth Vader went to great lengths to avoid the school play ground for fear of having the s**t beaten out of him by his classmates. Perhaps you could enlighten us?
DeleteYes he did. Why do you think he didn't play rugby or footy?
DeleteHow often the bullied become the bully. Little wonder then that bully boy --Bazza turned out as he did.
DeleteRugby and footy were the main sports at our school.He was vain, a whimp and a snitch. Yet, appears to have bullied clergy by the abuse of office and the mask of respectability and was one of three ordinhands from our church at the time. One ended up in the Prison Chaplincy. Not sure about the third but glad the vicar never persuaded me to be ordained.
DeleteLeslie Abercynon.
Light bearer. Didn't Jesus go into the highway and byways.among the sinners. Surely Bishops are also called to be light in a dark world. If we are so critical, are we doing a better job, bringing in the lost, to the light. I guess not!
ReplyDeleteLight bearer, you are correct that Jesus went into the highways and byways and called all to his light (as we are all sinners), but he called them to repent.
DeleteI think the point here, is that, with no debate or discussion, The Bench are not calling the gay community to repentance, but rather are celebrating their life style choice.
The world wide Church is split on this issue, as are most Parishes. It would therefore seem to me, right to have open honest debate and discussion, including how we genuinely welcome all into our Churches.
The issue here, is that the bench are not representing all their people (yet again) in being 100% in favour of the LGBT agenda.
This forum might be critical on occasions, but when does the average CiW pew sitter get a say otherwise.
Right. This may be off-topic. But it is hardly irrelevant to other recent posts. A friend and I convened in a certain place of refreshment on Cathedral Road, last Friday, for a few pints of something local. We had been planning to talk about the cricket. However, two known employees from number 39 of the aforementioned thoroughfare were having a liquid lunch at a neighbouring table and talking about what might happen in Landrindod Wells on 5th September. Looks like an impasse is likely, and a repeat of the Llandaff election can be expected there, too. I'm just off to put a few quid on the possibility at William Hill's after penning this.
ReplyDeleteThere is, quite obviously, little remaining support (apart from those S&B electors willing to obey the three-line whip) for 'Honest' John the High Street Solicitor from Brecon, after the revelations of the past 6 months. Gregorious Maximus is, apparently, non-too-keen to take on the role (something to do with his wife being Roman Catholic and the attendant pressures of the role and its impact on marital stability). Andy Crap is widely viewed as being on the way out, when it will be announced that he is to spend more time with his lycra, running up and down the peaks of Snowdonia.
Pain in the Monmouth (apparently never likely to be president of 'Honest' John's fan club) is regarded as having no teeth. Why do you think Barry the Golfer wanted him in Monmouth in the first place? Penberthy of Abergwyli is similarly viewed - and becoming more and more a parody of herself after the Eisteddfod. That leaves June. She would certainly grab certain people by the what's its (if they had any to start with) and would certainly send Andy Crap running to Sports Direct sooner than he planned. However, she is too widely regarded as lacking a broad mandate to be in Wales in the first place. Her rather cavalier attitude to the Welsh language, as well as her unproven familiarity with Welsh life, makes her too much of an unknown quantity. There is, apparently, already some nasty sting in the tail about 'Honest' John and the Welsh language about to be unleashed in the media this weekend.
So who will be the next Archbishop? It goes without saying that none of the current Bench is, frankly, worthy of the title. Given that less than 30,000 people (less than 1% of the Welsh population) pitch-up in church on Sundays these days, and none of the bishops, let alone the parish clergy, can put a coherent sentence together in Welsh, should we now be asking whether the Welsh Anglican Primate should be known by another name? Any suggestions by contributors to the estimable blog?
The next Welsh Anglican Primate? How about "The Terminator"?
DeleteIt always amazes me that those Welsh speakers who complain about the lack of Welsh-speaking clergy never offer themselves for ordination. Yet they are quick enough to denigrate the clergy who make an effort to include Welsh speakers in the liturgy. What is worse, is that modern Welsh nicks English words, shoves -io on the end, and pretends its a Welsh word; for example, enjoyio, seiclo, or that disgraceful greeting as you leave John Lewis's Car Park in Cardiff - siwrne saff i chi. If Welsh speakers are so lazy that they cannot speak a proper language, why should the clergy waste their time learning a fake language? I think they have better things to do with their time.
DeleteTiglath Pileser
I've just tried to translate "siwme saff i chi" into English and the computer says - "sauce me for you". What in the name of all that is holy is John Lewis trying to tell us?
DeleteDespite considerable effort being expended in promoting the Welsh language, the reality is that its usage is in terminal decline. More Urdu is spoken in Wales than Welsh.
DeleteTiggi,old fruit. You lack historical perspective. From the post second world war years until recent times there was no shortage of Welsh speaking clergy and some were Eisteddfod Laureates. Their downfall was brought about by the Bishops who imported sycophants who would do their liberal bidding in exchange for a parish and promises of preferment. Try sitting through a church service where the magnificent words which once carried faithful souls nearer to God are uttered in pidgin Welsh or attend a chapter meeting where for the first time in centuries the proceedings are conducted in English.
DeleteWho would wish to offer themselves for ministry in a church where their unique culture has been displaced by imported liberal clergy who have forced the faithful to turn elsewhere and who by their mere presence block growth amongst the ministry of Welsh speakers. The CiW has dumbed itself down.
Father David, John Lewis are trying to say, "Have a safe journey" in an anglicised form of Welsh. What is the point of anglicizing Welsh when Welsh has proper words to convey that sentiment. My nephew tells me that in his school, they are told that if they don't know the word for something in Welsh, they should use the English word, but make it sound like a Welsh word. This is what John Lewis has done: Shournee saf ee chee.
DeleteWatchman, I wondered how long it would take for someone to blame the bench of bishops for the decline of the Welsh language in church. They are to blame for everything else, so why not that too?
Tiglath Pileser
Quite simply Tiggi because in the Disestablished Church in Wales it is they and they alone who seek out the candidates and it is they who make the appointments. The ancient seminaries and the English Crown no longer exercise patronage in the CiW. The buck stops with them.
DeleteWatchman, no doubt if you tried hard enough, you could always bring these posts back on track and blame the gay community too! I am sure that they must have something to do with the decline of Welsh in the CiW.
DeleteTiglath Pileser
I was interested in your reference to Gregorious Maximus as it jangled a lot of bells. I knew him well when he was an undergraduate and for a number of years thereafter. At the time he tried very hard to be a bit less Maximus, even participating in 1989 in a BBC diet series presented by Roy Noble (unsuccessful alas - the diet as well as the series). The catholic angle is also interesting as Gregorious was married at Westminster CATHEDRAL some ten years after ordination.
DeleteThe Presiding Bishop of the Church in Wales (without the styles, Most Revd or Your Grace) sound good to me.
ReplyDeleteGood stuff.No wonder other authentic Anglican denominations are now in communion with Lambeth.
DeleteHaving deposed themselves and the Anglican communion in Wales from Catholic tradition, yes, we agree, the bench sitters cannot be anything else but elders with no catholic titles Whamab.They are now ministers of religion. Celestial jurisdiction means that assets belongs to the faithful remnant of 1662. Since you cannot take God to court, the next best option is to take someone who thinks he is a god to court.
Primus?
DeleteIt seems that they talk of little else in the pubs of Wales other than what might happen in Llandrindod Wells next month (NB two Ls in Llandrindod). Athelstan Riley, thank you for this marvelously perceptive insight into life on the western side of Offa's Dyke. Here's me thinking that you passed to greater glory in 1945.Most entertaining! Thank goodness you are still with us as A watcher of ye holy ones.
ReplyDelete"What sweet of life endureth
Unmixed with bitter pain?
Midst earthly Change and chances
What glory doth remain?"
(NEH 330)
Wouldn't it be more accurate and honest for the Welsh primate to be called "Unaccountable Dictator" in future?
ReplyDeleteI see your point but their ministry is one of eldership, they have broken with Catholic tradition, thus deposed themselves. How nice it will be not have to look at laced cottas worn with gaypride coloured scarf and academic hood again.
Delete@Hymn Singer
DeleteMight I suggest "Unaudited unaccountable Dictator in Wales"?
Might you be suggesting the Fraud Squad?
DeleteOh but Mr Enforcer you are much too critical. I attended a wonderful communion service in Anglesey last Sunday and received communion from a bishop from Newfoundland, a Catholic priest from the Vatican and the gospel read by a woman priest, Sue Jones from England. What a lovely lady she was. It was a wonderful service well attended.
ReplyDeleteAngels Delight
You mean the church on the shores of the Menai Straights? One in the eye for the
Deleteformer meter reader team vicar then.
Barbra Winsor
Sue Jones from England? Lovely Lady? Surely we are not talking about Cyanide Sue lately of the Bangor Deanery are we? Or is Angels Delight living in some kind of fantasy world for nice people? By the way, if it was her, has Cyanide Sue got PTO in Bangor? if not, it means someone without appropriate DBS clearance is officiating in the Province and Diocese without authorisation of the Diocesan Bishop. That's a clergy discipline matter. Got her!
ReplyDeleteDon't be so angry darling. It was the lady in question, now don't make too much of a thing about it. Whose going to nick her - you or me?
DeleteAngels Delight.
Don't be so angry? You try telling that to the countless victims of her bullying over the past decade and more. Try telling it to the two candidates she repeatedly slandered in the 2008 Bangor electoral college (aided and abetted by Barry the Golfer) which resulted in the non-entity claiming the chair of St Deiniol at present. I don't suppose, while she was there casting her noxiousness about, she actually told anyone whey she had decided to drop the tribunal proceedings against the Bishop of Bangor? No I thought not. Too worried her twisted personality would be given full public exposure. What a disgrace. At least the Church of England has seen through her and made sure she didn't become Dean of Derby. Poetic justice at last.
DeleteBangor Bugle, the so called victim of 2008 did pretty well out of his troubles. Compare that with 20 years of continual harassment of the former vicar of Benllech by this s..t bag, www.scandal and offence.com. That's where Barry's downfall began and history will eventually disclose the fraud.
DeleteCoward come out.
Oh come off it Dyfi. "We continue as we please", (google Scandal and Offence)
DeleteScratch my Back
Ooh! Cyanide Sue's fan club has been rattled. It still doesn't answer the question, though. Why did she drop her highly publicised decision to take the Bishop of Bangor to an employment tribunal after he - eventually - woke up to the bullying and pernicious power-grabbing activities of the former bank clerk from Swansea? Too many people lining up to 'share their experiences' of inappropriate behaviour, twisting the truth, and (so I am reliably informed) a request for a psychological assessment by the defence. Whatever the truth, she certainly contributed prodigally to Bangor's decline and the worsening levels of morale (let alone literacy) among its clergy.
DeleteOn a related note, why are we hearing much less about the Professor Archdeacon, Mike ("Fred" to his admirers) West? Wasn't his elevation to Mission Archdeacon one of Cyanide Sue's ruses? Perhaps he realised the whole project was a lost cause and is just enjoying the salary.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteShe didn't give up with the tribunal Iolo. There was a clause of confidentiality and guess who was laughing all the way to the bank?
DeleteAngels Delight
Whatever the reliability of Iolo Goch's sources concerning the Tribunal that either did - or didn't - happen, one thing is certain. HR professionals were called in to review Bangor Cathedral on Cyanide Sue's watch. The main findings: no paperwork; no processes; no policies; low staff morale; too many top-down decisions being taken with little or no consultation. In short, an improvised dictatorship. Doesn't practice what she preaches, does she? Am I surprised? Not at all.
Delete"The so called victim of 2008 did pretty well out of his troubles" says Coward come out. So that means a priest abusing a spurious confidentiality clause to calculatedly lie about another priest and deliberately mislead an electoral college is ok, is it? Expressing sentiments like this makes me wonder if you live in Llanbedrog?
DeleteAll this talk of the unsuitability of the current bench to be considered in the forthcoming primatial election has taken me back to words spoken in 2015 by the influential Anglican theologian, John Milbank: "The future of the C of E's mission depends very much on the restoration of a learned clergy who will once again command cultural respect." That's Wales well and truly stuffed... as if we didn't know it already.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, William Hill was reluctant to accept my bet on an electoral impasse. Apparently, the leakiness of the system means it's too open to abuse. What a wonderful reflection of Welsh Anglicanism!
Athelstan - Have you tried placing your bet on the nose to win with Honest John? He has a stable full of losers but he is always good for a flutter.
DeleteMy word, if what you say is accurate, it truly is a shameful indictment of the confidentiality of the electoral college. To think that a bookies think it is too corrupt to accept a bet.
ReplyDeleteAfter the last electoral college, I hope the Archiepiscopal one in Llandrindod is worthy of the intercessions of God's people in Wales.
Would that the declarations of confidentiality are fully respected this time to restore dignity to the process.
To clarify - what happens if there is stalemate at Llandrindod Wells and no one receives the requisite number of votes in order to be declared the next Archbishop of Wales (Thinks - if it is the Church IN Wales, how come it is the Archbishop OF and not IN Wales? I don't think the Disestablishers thought that one through!). If there is an impasse will the next step be to hand the whole process and the final decision over to the six episcopal hierarchs? Then what happens if there is an even split 3 v 3. Surely it would be far wiser to have an odd number of Welsh bishops. What happened to + Barry Llandaff's episcopal side-kick - the presence of Archbishop Habgood's former Domestic Chaplain would have ensured oddity among the Anglican Bards or, better still a replacement PAB would bring the number up to an odd and sacred 7.
ReplyDeleteO No Father we have enough Odd Bishops in Wales at present. There is no need to compound the calamity.
DeleteAn assistant bishop or PAB would not make a difference. They would not be part of the bench for an electoral college and as members of the Governing Body always voted with the House of Clergy not the House of Bishops
Delete"No need to compound the calamity"? I'm not so sure Watchman. Repetition is the mother of success.
DeleteOdd meaning - Uneven, not divisible by two.
ReplyDeleteOdd meaning - Strange, peculiar, weird, queer (well - perhaps not that!) Bizarre.
I was, of course, referring to the first definition of Odd.
By the way, your're not the same flat-capped Watchman that I have been in dialogue with on Thinking Anglicans over statues by any chance, are you? I have my doubts, however, as on TA you politely refuse to refer to me as "Father" as Jesus allegedly once said "Call no man father except ...."
Sorry Father, mistaken identity. We are only acquainted through the medium of this blog. If you are in regular Anglican Orders (Pre Bazza) then it is an honour to address you as "Father".
DeleteApologies. Yes, I'm 40 years in Holy Orders so I am well "Pre Bazza" although having spent my entire ministry, to date, to the East of Offa's Dyke. However, being 50% Welsh thanks to a Walian father I take a particular interest in the Ancient Briton Blog and the goings on of the Church in Wales.
ReplyDeleteYou're pre (epsicopal) "Pre Bazza" just like me. Suddenly , I feel better already.
DeleteI think all eventualities in the episcopal and archiepiscopal electoral processes are covered by that comprehensive guide, The Constitutions of the Church in Wales. Or so, having long ceased to be governed thereby, I dimly remember from Prof Wood's lectures on the subject at Lampeter.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right Matthew. I recently saw a copy of Archbishop Green's magnum opus for sale for £2.00. Less than the price of a pint. He must be turning in his grave. How are the mighty fallen and the CiW with them !
Delete