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| The bishop-designate of Llandaff, the Very Rev June Osborne Source: CinW |
“This service will be a wonderful celebration of faith and hope for the future as we consecrate June as bishop and welcome her into the family of the Church in Wales. I am sure everyone will welcome, support and pray for her as she begins this new stage in her ministry." - Bishop John Davies
Faith? What a load of old cobblers. Faith has long since been abandoned by the Church in Wales in favour of an ideology of relativism. Why the new bishop is to be presented with a copy of the Bible is a mystery unless it is to act as a reminder of when the Church was built on faith.
A graduate in Social Sciences, June Osborne was a founder of the Church’s Leading Women programme. No surprise, then, in the travesty that the Gospel will be read by Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, former Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church of the USA, the Anglican Communion’s first woman primate and the ruination of the Episcopal Church in the United States.
A portent I wonder?
Be thankful that Katherine Jefferts Schori, the homilist of "the worst sermon ever" (http://lowly.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-worst-sermon-ever-presiding-bishop.html), is not preaching. This sounds like a service you should boycott unless you go as a reporter to chronicle the decline of the CiW.
ReplyDeleteMethinks people are boycotting this service, Underground Pewster. Bishop John Davies has offered the clergy of his diocese 4 tickets each for the event which means that he thinks the cathedral is going to look rather empty. Shortly he will resort to sending the Cathedral Chapter out into the highways and byways to compel people to come in that his cathedral shall be full. After all, he doesn't want an empty cathedral standing in the way of his election as Archbishop!
DeleteTiglath-Peleser
One hears rumours of coach loads of pensioners being driven down from Merthyr by the Ven. C. Smith again.
DeleteBut Underground Pewster, "to which editor shall we go to buy an editorial in Wales?".
DeleteCporying Barry
Send all reports to A.B.
DeleteOr Martin Shipton @ WalesOnline.
DeleteHis publication is almost as popular as Ancient Briton's blog!
Perfect timing Simple Simon.
DeleteToday's grumblings on The Green indicate Martin Shipton is once again digging into the Llandaff swamp.
The question is what or who has he got his teeth into this time?
The smart money around The Green is on a pre-Christmas relocation for Bazza's golf caddy.
Shipton chose not to dig into Barry's swamp in 1997 and towed the party line keeping mum. Conclusion - he became boring.
DeleteYou might find that 20 years make a significant difference especially when emails and transcripts are made available.
DeleteUnfortunately it's already beginning to look like we can expect more of bully boy --Bazza's liberal elitist agenda.
Deletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-40610296
Fear not - whatever they may call this charade they can not make a silk purse out of it.
ReplyDeleteIs there no one in the Diocese of Llandaff who is capable of proclaiming the Gospel on such an important occasion for the local church? Why is a bishop proclaiming the Gospel? Do we not have any recently ordained deacons who can fulfil the role for which they were ordained? This is not a good start. Llandaff has suffered for far too long with imports at the expense of local talent. Bishop John, please rethink and let a deacon proclaim the Gospel.
ReplyDeleteHere, here! I agree Prester John - a recently ordained deacon from the bishop-elect's new diocese should read the Gospel at this very special service for the start of her ministry amongst us. The needs of the local church far out way any attempt at making a 'big statement' by bringing in a superstar from across the pond. I am sure that Katharine Jefferts Schori would be only too pleased just to be present as a sister bishop instead of taking centre stage? Come on diocese of Llandaff, lobby for one of our own to proclaim the Gospel!
DeleteIt could be argued that having a newly ordained diocesan deacon would certainly have signalled something quite different to the bringing in of a celebrity presiding bishop in his/her place. On the other hand, if Katharine Jefferts Schori is truly going to act as a liturgical deacon throughout the consecration (and robe as such (without mitre)) then that in itself will signal something quite beautiful about the way women seek to exercise episcopal authority. What we would witness would be a preparedness for +Katherine to lay aside patriarchal notions authority - as often exercised by male episcopacy - and show a genuine willingness to serve in a diaconal context. So if Schori is truly going to be the liturgical deacon (and remove her mitre) then what a stroke of genius by Bishop June: signally from the outset that women do episcopacy quite differently from men. How many male bishops can you imagine removing their mitres at such a high profile service and taking up the diaconal towel in its place. Genius.
DeleteIt could be argued that having a newly ordained diocesan deacon would certainly have signalled something quite different to the bringing in of a celebrity presiding bishop in his/her place. On the other hand, if Katharine Jefferts Schori is truly going to act as a liturgical deacon throughout the consecration (and robe as such (without mitre)) then that in itself will signal something quite beautiful about the way women seek to exercise episcopal authority. What we would witness would be a preparedness for +Katherine to lay aside patriarchal notions authority - as often exercised by male episcopacy - and show a genuine willingness to serve in a diaconal context. So if Schori is truly going to be the liturgical deacon (and remove her mitre) then what a stroke of genius by Bishop June: signalling from the outset that women do episcopacy quite differently from men. How many male bishops can you imagine removing their mitres at such a high profile service and taking up the diaconal towel in its place. Genius.
Delete" I am sure that Katharine Jefferts Schori would be only too pleased just to be present as a sister bishop instead of taking centre stage?"
DeleteI am unclear- did you mean this as sarcasm, or are you unfamiliar with the former presiding bishop of TEC? And don't be surprised if she wears a mitre while reading.
While you're at it Scapegoat why don't you try and persuade Gerwhine to forego parking his backside on the Queen's chair reserved for her Majesty's use?
DeleteScapegoat wrote, "something quite beautiful about the way women seek to exercise episcopal authority". Seek is the operative word. Women have no episcopal authority in the One Holy catholic and Apostolic Church other than that granted by progressives who have abandoned scripture, tradition and reason for political purposes, casting aside the faithful in the process. 'Beautiful' it is not.
DeleteI go back to what I suggested when you commented about the recent ordinations at Llandaff - why not try their ministry out? Attend the consecration and be a little open to God's Spirit gently leading you to a boarder understanding of the catholicity of Anglican orders. I've been on the receiving end of many a woman's ministry and found it quite beautiful. Give it a try - you might like it.
DeleteThe difference between us Scapegoat is that you believe the church should reflect what you want, not what what the catholic faith teaches. I have no objection to the ministry of women but along with the vast majority of Christians I cannot in conscience accept their ordination to the priesthood so like it or not, giving it 'a try' as you put it would be a betrayal of belief.
DeleteGive it a try?
DeletePeggy the Pilate and Wigley the Witch have more than had a chance and have been complete disasters.
Incompetent misfits first class.
The only positives I can find in recent goings-on are that Jeffrey John got his just desserts and that June could not possibly be any worse than Bazza's coven or the Fantabulous Fairy in the Deanery.
Tut tut Gabriel, have you said his name too many times?
DeleteAccording to the Church Times Jeffrey John is still doing his best to get to the bottom of things, so to speak.
https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2017/7-july/news/uk/emails-reveal-welsh-bishops-anxieties
Emails reveal Welsh Bishops’ anxieties over potential appointment of gay dean Jeffrey John
"HOSTILITY to the appointment of the Dean of St Albans, the Very Revd Dr Jeffrey John, to the see of Llandaff began with the Welsh Bench of Bishops before the electoral college met, it was revealed this week."
"Using the Freedom of Information Act, Dr John has now obtained partially redacted emails sent between the Welsh bishops in the run-up to the electoral college. An email dated 8 February, which appears to be from Bishop Davies, states: “My instinct is that JJ’s stance on the matter of same-gender relationships and his own situation might be unwelcome to many in the Diocese who would suspect that Barry’s [the former Bishop of Llandaff and Welsh Primate, Dr Barry Morgan] evident liberal agenda was being perpetuated by his election. It would probably do the perception of the Bench, at home and elsewhere, no particular good either.
“Personally, I also think that his election would be an immense distraction in the Province at the wrong time.”
In another email, another author, presumably the Bishop of St Asaph, the Rt Revd Gregory Cameron, writes: “If, in the end, God wants Jeffrey to shake us up and the entire Anglican Communion, then so be it, but he has still got to get 32 votes. . . I don’t think he has any episcopal vote (?), and he certainly doesn’t seem to attract the St Asaph electors. . .
“However, I think we have to stand back and try not to manage the process, even if we can be honest with our electors.”
In an email dated 17 February, Bishop Davies takes this advice to influence his own diocesan representatives. “I will be meeting with my electors in Cardiff, probably on Monday evening, and expressing my anxieties.”
He also writes: “I am still of the view that JJ’s election could set off a media circus.” He returns to the state of the Llandaff diocese: “Whilst neither sexuality nor age are conclusive factors here, I think that the depth of problems in Llandaff has yet to fully emerge. . . Getting to grips with all this, becoming known and trusted and turning things around will take a deal of time, possibly more than JJ has given his age.”
Dr John is 64. So is Dean Osborne.
Bishop Davies concludes the email: “I am not sufficiently anxious to think that, at the College, I would need to say that there are anxieties or cautions which need to be taken into account. I tend to think that those who might have these are better at sharing them privately with our electors.”
Two hours later, he again writes to the other bishops that he has heard of Llandaff’s continued support for Dr John: “What is clear is that, if there are to be candidates proffered by other dioceses, the homework on them needs to be well done and that they need to be well presented as very credible. Heigh-ho!”
The electoral college met from 21 to 23 February. Afterwards, having been given an account of the confidential meeting, Dr John attracted significant press interest when he accused Bishop Davies of colluding with “anti-gay discrimination”. The accusation was firmly denied by the Welsh Bench of Bishops in a letter to the Church Times (Letters, 31 March).
Two days after their letter’s publication, on 2 April, Bishop Davies writes to a correspondent about the “mind-numbingly grotesque” public fallout, but concludes: “As for the Jeffrey John saga, I (and a number of people, not least some C of E bishops) am of the firm view that we have had a lucky escape and that the Holy Spirit spoke (at least to some!).”
Batten down the hatches Llandaff.
One doesn't make FOI applications unless one is intent on taking matters further suggesting the Jeffrey John/John Davies saga has plenty of life in it still.
Delete"Heigh Ho!" indeed eh John?
"Getting to grips with all this, becoming known and trusted and turning things around will take a deal of time, possibly more than JJ has given his age.”
DeleteSounds as though the other bunglers on the bench have been following your blog very closely Ancient Briton.
No wonder the glove puppet has been seen going around Llandaff in recent weeks with a face like a blind cobbler's thumb.
Is a Bishop's visitation in the writing on the wall?
The part that really jumps out at me is this:
Delete"[John Davies] returns to the state of the Llandaff diocese: “Whilst neither sexuality nor age are conclusive factors here, I think that the depth of problems in Llandaff has yet to fully emerge. . . Getting to grips with all this, becoming known and trusted and turning things around will take a deal of time"
Finally we have some official acknowledgment of what AB and the rest of this blog have been saying for years: the Llandaff diocese has been circling the plughole during Barry's episcopate and whoever takes up the reins is facing an uphill struggle.
As for the problems that are "yet to fully emerge", one assumes this must include the issues at the Cathedral. Of course one wonders what else the senior management are party to.
Much as I dislike JJ (as do some C of E bishops it seems!) I'm pleased that his FOI has brought all this to light.
Suspect being caught red handed so obviously disrespecting Lord Morgan isn't going to help John Davies, who must be reeling as his leadership falls apart. Davies' panic can be felt even now and one suspects there is a LOT more to come out.
DeleteAgree with Silent Majority, it's a very good move by Jeffrey John.
Out of interest, Bishop Davies, perhaps you'd enlighten us all what you believe is "mind numbingly grotesque?" Do you mean gay people?
Inviting Katharine Schori is nothing more than a political statement.
ReplyDeleteI'd 'eat my hat' if Barry has not had a hand in this. As long as Barry has breath he will continue to work for his quest to stamp out Anglo-Catholicism: that is clear.
Former Archbishop Barry is virtually allergic to the word 'catholic'.
The penny hasn't quite dropped with you Simple Soul. For Barry, revenge is like a dish, best served cold. He is not just allergic to, but is obssesed, not just with one, but two "C"s - "Catholic" and "Clifford".
ReplyDeleteBerwyn
I think Bishop June should invite Gerwhine to preach exactly the same sermon he spouted today at the 9am and 11am services in Llandaff. (Obviously writing two different sermons was too much like hard work!)
ReplyDeleteAmidst the waffle about love and unity, he felt to moved to attack "the small minority" who are "undermining his work" and invited them to "leave" so that he can march bravely into the future.
Poor old Capon got so worked up that he tripped over his words and repeated himself. The congregations at 9 and 11 were bemused to say the least. Reactions afterwards ranged from "what's he blathering about?" to "shame on him" and "useless little man". It was generally felt unworthy to use the pulpit for personal attacks on specific members of the congregation.
I've known many Deans over the years and some were right rum pansies, but none of them would've stooped to this. If Capon is feeling the heat he should take some time off, permanently if need be.
Ones work can only be undermined if one actually does any.
DeleteWas he referring to his moonlighting in the antiques trade?
Pity the diminutive twerp wasn't present a couple of weeks ago to hear Canon Cahill's sermon about leadership and leadership qualities.
Capon Senior, is an ordained Presbyterian minister, a sound theologian and a riveting preacher. Whats he doing in Babylon?
DeleteBerwyn Ynys Mon.Long time no hear, Barry?
As other contirbutors have very helpfully pointed out elsewhere, the former Dean of Salisbury was in the habit of publishing their sermons on the Cathedral website.
Deletehttp://www.salisburycathedral.org.uk/news/fourth-sunday-after-trinity
Would Gerwhine have the balls to do likewise?
One doubts it so perhaps the electronic ears in the walls very usefully deployed during Friends' meetings could also be put to work every time the glove puppet climbs the steps to the pulpit thus providing us with a transcript so the "quality" of his spoutings can be preserved for posterity?
Any assistance this might provide the new Bishop of Llandaff with her much heralded Visitation would be an additional advantage!
What a shame - wish I had been there but visiting my husband who is working in New York for a week. Would have loved to have heard Gerwin's sermon especially if he had the prophetic nerve to say it how it is. Might have to email him for a copy of said sermon.
ReplyDeleteGoodness me, "visiting my husband"? Heavens above darling, that was a quick trans gender op you seem to have had. Unless of course you're still a 'he' or an 'it'?
DeletePeggy Mount
?? Peggy, why would you think me an impersonal "it"; I suppose I should be insulted, but truth to tell, I genuinely feel sorry for the person who has left that message. It can't possibly come from a good place within them. Speak kindly and intelligibly, or not at all please.
DeleteIf only you could heed your own advice!
DeleteIs that by "Divine permission" or by "Canonical Obedience" Scapegoat? Remember the good old days in Bangor? Of course you do.
DeleteBerwyn from Anglesey.
Your would have enjoyed it Scapegoat as it touched on 'natural right constitutionalism'.
DeleteIn the Church of England, there is a clear policy at consecrations, introduced by +Rowan, that a newly ordained Deacon from the Bishop-elect's Diocese reads the Gospel. That is their distinctive ministry, and they should not be big-footed by has-been bishops.
ReplyDeleteAs for Gerwhine's sermon of yesterday, it was a display of insecurity of the highest magnitude. The poor little gnome has lost it completely, hasn't he? When you take to the pulpit to 'have a go' you know you have lost every ounce of authority you might have ever had (in his case, not a lot, given the nature of his appointment). Mind you, all this self-righteous whingeing is probably his way of screaming 'help' because he knows the stilettos are clip-clopping towards his door. Yes, indeed, if I were June Osborne, I'd be demanding a copy of yesterday morning's rant - and demanding to know whatever possessed him to believe that one single word of it could nourish and inspire the people of God to go out and proclaim the Gospel. Talk about a misuse of authority and office. Mind you, he's learnt at the feet of the Master, hasn't he? Sad. Sad. Sad.
With due respect guys, you must take a long hard look at yourselves if you go to the cathedral just to find fault in the leadership. Why not bless another church with your presence with leaders you respect?
ReplyDeleteAu contraire, @Whamab, it's the leadership that has to accept _us_. We're the ones who pay for these clerics and the frankly useless cathedral staff. I go because it's my parish and my damn Cathedral, and I'll not be driven out by a bunch of Johnny-come-latelys with horrible ties, overly shiny shoes and squinty little eyes in horn-rimmed glasses. You're the ones who should be seeking new churches that cater to your 'requirements'.
DeleteI go to Llandaff Cathedral to find God and his leadership.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately I no longer find God there very often but more usually the lunatic fringe screeching their liberal deviant dogma.
One is reluctant to rub salt in to the wound of a young and inexperienced Dean who lacks skill and sensitivity in the pulpit, but may be the (let's call him) 'current' Dean of Llandaff would benefit from some advice from a recently retired English Dean, who certainly does have the experience, skill and sensitivity to occupy a cathedral pulpit. In his recent book, Michael Sadgrove of Durham has published...
ReplyDelete1 Speaking too soon.
The fault is preparation that is too thin, too hurried or too late. Put the sermon to bed before Saturday night and spend the evening watching football. Tweak early on Sunday morning.
2 Being too long.
The 21st century calls for the art of the miniaturist. 12-15 minutes is long enough for the parish communion: any longer and the liturgy will drift. Lengthiness is the sin of sloth in those who can’t be bothered to refine and sharpen up the content.
3 Jokeyness.
Don’t subvert the faith by throw-away lines that suggest you don’t believe what you are saying any more than your hearers do. Humour and irony are one thing, cynicism quite another.
4 Not taking the text seriously.
Don’t undermine the sermon by closing the gospel book after reading from it and then changing the subject. Your task is to preach the word of God.
5 Playing to the Gallery
Never preach to impress, or try to be clever, especially on big occasions. People will see through your insincerity. Be yourself, and they will respect you.
6 Moralising and Thought Control.
It’s not your job to control what people think or how they behave. They probably won’t pay much attention anyway. Your job is to proclaim good news, and invite people to consider their lives, attitudes, behaviour and thought in the light of it.
7 Lack of shape and direction.
Without structure, a sermon falls at the first post. Avoid stream-of-consciousness soliloquising. Know where you want to go and take your hearers with you. Pay attention to how you begin and especially how you end.
8 Cliché.
Don’t fall for pat sayings, either those in common use or your own, or even thoughtless biblical quotations. Cliché is the idleness or cowardice that avoids having to say something new, at least to yourself. An entire sermon is cliché if it’s just another variation on what you’re said a hundred times before. Be original.
9 Being Boring.
The biggest sin of all. Boredom comes from sermons that are too long, too verbose, too simplistic, too didactic. It thrives on lack of narrative, metaphor and symbol, or just on dull delivery. If you’re bored by your own preaching, be quite sure your hearers will be too. If you suspect you’re incapable of interesting them let alone being inspiring or challenging, get some training fast or stop preaching.
10 The unlived sermon.
Don’t dare to preach to others what you have not yet prayed before God and preached to yourself, and can offer as an act of love to your hearers. Your sermon goes on in your life and character long after you have left the pulpit.
Amen to that.
Spot on Father and encapsulated in the verdict on the curate's first sermon.
DeleteFirstly he wrote it all down. Secondly he read it all out and thirdly it wasn't worth reading.
I was a bit disappointed to read Bishop June looks forward to supporting Cardiff City, Welsh Rugby and Welsh National Opera!
ReplyDeleteHonestly??? So predictable and falling in to the mould already.
Please be yourself and have integrity!
Oh and btw many people in Neath deanery support Swansea city so you've missed one out!
Hoist with her own petard brother Danny. In an earlier post I predicted that the Llandaff CRACH would see off the charlady from Sarum Cleansing Services but she seems to be doing a splendid job herself.
DeleteSoon she will aspire to keep sheep, learn the Welsh language and preach at the National Eisteddfod in an attempt to engratiate herself. Pathetic.
I don't see any reference to her music interests or singing abilities.
DeleteHere's hoping she is considerably better than Morgan the musical moron whose insipid plainsong warbles were an embarrassment to the Land of Song.
Speaking of music, has anyone else read the glove puppet's letter in the 84th Annual Report of the Friends of Llandaff Cathedral?
"Reflecting on what is now my fourth year here as Dean, I am glad that great steps are being made in terms of the recovery of our tradition of music."
Most amusing, he must be as cloth-eared and unmusical as Bonaparte and Morgan.
"Again, since our last report, the Cathedral has welcomed Mr Stephen Moore as Director of Music. Since his arrival, our fortunes have changed as far as music is concerned. A huge amount of hard work has been involved creating the right atmosphere and opportunity for the musical life of the Cathedral to flourish......".
Those who know better and remember what a real Cathedral Choir sounded like will realise this is first class manure most usefully fed to rhubarb or roses.
I wonder if June or Jefferts Schori will have anything to say about this during the installation?
Deletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40491311
FGM: More than 5,000 new cases in England
@Harold
DeleteSince the passing of Sir Donald Walters the ears in the walls report Gerwhine is wheedling to get Alun Williams voted in as Treasurer of the Friends of Llandaff Cathedral.
Lest anyone forget, that's the same Alun Williams who helped fiddle the Organ Appeal accounts.
Obviously Gerwhine is still after the Friends' pot of £900k to hide the hole in the Cathedral accounts.
@1662, to the best of my recollection no final account was ever published for the main Llandaff Organ Appeal. Only the Solo Organ appeal had a proper final account.
DeleteSolo Organ Appeal accounts were promised by David Jones in his letter published in The Bell but as far as I know such accounts have never appeared. Do you have a copy Bursar?
DeleteHarold Darke should be reassured that June's musical tastes are rather more nuanced and developed than her musically illiterate predecessor. For her farewell Eucharist and Evensong here in Salisbury next Sunday, she has chosen Haydn's Missa Sancti Nicolai and Durufle's Ubi caritas; along with Vaughan Williams' Let all the world in every corner sing, Bob Chilcott's Even such is time and the Howells Coll Reg Te Deum to round things off while the altar is censed. Mind you, she'll be lucky to get anything like that in Llandaff, won't she? Also, she is completely at ease in a catholic liturgical environment, unlike her predecessor.
DeleteAll I can say is that it's going to be a white-knuckle roller-coaster ride for you all. But, behind the steely professionalism and complete inability to suffer fools gladly, June leaves people in no doubt that she is a person of transparency. I think that alone is one quality Llandaff desperately needs. Her support for the choral foundation and her passionate commitment to cathedrals as places of primary mission means that she will not stand idly by and fiddle while Rome burns. I cannot imagine she will be anything but appalled by the events of recent years. Your present Dean had better prepare himself for the devastating conversation that begins with the line 'Gerwyn, let me offer you some coaching...'
.... or "Good Morning Dean, I require access to the Cathedral accounts....."
Delete@Once Llandaff Now Sarum
DeleteSupport for the choral foundation?
There is no choral foundation in Llandaff nor has there been any serious effort to establish one which is ultimately the underlying reason for the Lay Clerk and assistant Organist redundancies along with the immoral use of discredited zero hours contracts for the faux cathedral Choir.
Llandaff's dean & chapter don't really give a hang about the Cathedral music department as long as they can avoid any further PR disasters.
Similarly they don't give a hang about being associated with other disreputable employers taking advantage of vulnerable and/or hard-up workers.
UBER
https://www.lawyer-monthly.com/2016/10/gig-economy-hit-by-uber-employment-tribunal-ruling/
Deliveroo
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/03/06/tribunal-rule-deliveroo-riders-employment-status/
Excel & Citysprint
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/03/24/gig-economy-tribunal-rules-excel-courier-must-pay-worker-holiday/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/24/second-cycle-courier-wins-holiday-pay-in-tribunal-ruling-affecting-gig-economy
Pimlico Plumbers
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/10/pimlico-loses-appeal-against-plumbers-worker-status-in-gig-economy-case
The manifest hypocrisy of Darth --Insidious, +John Davies, Peggy the Pilate, Gerwhine et al proclaiming campaigning and fund raising for "social justice" causes whilst mistreating employees to cut costs is sickening.
Without a meaningful contract of employment and the financial security it provides the glove puppet would find himself unable to indulge his true passion of dabbling in the antiques trade.
But that's OK, I'm alright Jack.
From: Gerwyn Capon
DeleteSent: 03 July 2017 11:15:44
Subject: The Friends of Llandaff Cathedral
Dear Friends,
Sir Donald’s death is indeed sad news for us all.
I am of course aware of the various flurries of emails that have concerned the appointment of Sir Donald’s successor as the Treasurer of the Friends.
I took immediate steps to ask Mr Alan Williams to take charge to set up new mandates for the Bank and I am very grateful to him for this help at such short notice – retrieving files has been a practical and diplomatic challenge as you can imagine – that is why I asked for Alan’s help and we should all be grateful that he was willing to come to our aid.
Ultimately of course, we will all wish to appoint the Treasurer after process under the constitution. And it seems to me an issue of vital integrity, professionally, morally and spiritually, that the person holding such a position in the Friends, will need to be a person who is also, deeply embedded in the worshipping life of the Cathedral in all ways, including their own financial stewardship. Sir Donald was a very generous financial supporter to the Cathedral month by month – he was in every sense a friend. It would be wholly inappropriate for anyone to hold the office of Treasurer of the Friends, who did not also understand that their own financial support for the Cathedral was at the heart of their own Christian witness to the overall ministry of the Cathedral itself.
The reason why I can be as bold in this statement is that I have said publically that, on arrival as Dean, I chose to tithe my income directly to the Cathedral – that is a sacrificial decision that means I can morally challenge others in their financial giving. Confidentiality is important BUT it is not an excuse to hide from one’s own conscience.
In the choice of the next Treasurer the matter of a generous attitude will be a matter of integrity as well as financial probity and efficiency. And we need time to discern that.
Our emergency council I hope will be able to begin to consider this in due course.
With all good wishes,
Gerwyn
From: Norman Lloyd Edwards
DeleteDate: July 3, 2017 at 4:07:33 PM GMT+1
Subject: Re: The Friends of Llandaff Cathedral
I agree that at this time we need to only consider having a bank mandate to pay the bills which are now coming in. The current signatories are Sir Donald and Arthur, the latter goes abroad on 11th July for a month. It is therefore essential that the Dean and a temporary Treasurer be given authority to sign cheques. To do this we should not be bogged down with postal votes, proxies, adequate notice and other legalistic rules. Let's just appoint a temporary Treasurer to see us over the coming months until we meet in October by which time careful consideration can be given to the permanent appointment.
N.LL-E
How interesting, given what members of the Cathedral Friends have been telling me about today's AGM.
DeleteNot only did Alan Williams's appointment as pro tem Treasurer get pushed through - not without opposition I understand - but this business about the bank mandates was also raised.
Personally I don't understand why it was not considered previously nor - excluding the issue of the former Treasurer's death - why was it suddenly important that the Dean should now become a signatory. After all he's been in post for over three years!
More tellingly, Robert Render tabled a very pointed question from the floor about the Dean's position as Chair of the Friends, noting that it was not the case with most other Cathedral Friends organisations. Apparently he he spoke eloquently about obvious conflicts of interest and both Sir Norman and the Dean flapped about trying to say why these conflicts could not possibly happen.
Hearing all this second hand, I can only conclude that the Friends should consider changing their Constitution to prevent such a situation occurring again.
Giving of ones 'Time & Talents' is no longer sufficient for the glove puppet.
Delete"Sir Donald was a very generous financial supporter to the Cathedral month by month..."
This is a HUGE breach of confidentiality.
The ONLY person who should know about anyone's giving is the Stewardship Secretary Helen Patterson.
"It would be wholly inappropriate for anyone to hold the office of Treasurer of the Friends, who did not also understand that their own financial support for the Cathedral was at the heart of their own Christian witness to the overall ministry of the Cathedral itself."
These remarks are obviously aimed at possible candidates for the post of Treasurer who have stopped giving to the Cathedral due to their complete lack of trust in Gerwhine and his gay mismanagement cabal.
It suggests the poison dwarf also has knowledge about other people's giving, reduced giving or non-giving which he should not have.
It seems either Helen Patterson has been indiscreet or Gerwhine has been sticking his nose into the GWADD records behind her back.
Another matter for June's IN tray.
Sir Donald would certainly have opposed what Gewhine is attempting to do now.
DeleteThe man is barely cold and not even in his grave before the tawdry money grab is under way to fill the hole in the Cathedral accounts.
Never mind not giving to the Cathedral directly, there is absolutely no point in giving money to the Friends as it is now essentially one and the same.
What a thoroughly repugnant little creature he is.
Isn't the new "pro tem" Treasurer of the Friends the same person who was the Treasurer of the Organ Appeal?
DeleteAnd whatever happened to those accounts?
As Ruth says, especially when the Dean has made it his business to judge his "flock" by what he knows they give, he's succeeded in blocking giving to the Friends as an alternative for those who feel unable to give to the Cathedral because they don't trust the Cathedral management.
Lux et veritas - There was NO breach of confidentiality when the Dean referred to Sir Donald being a generous financial supporter. He did NOT say that he gave £x per month and so how could you say it was a breach of confidentiality. No figures were mentioned!!! For heaven's sake THINK before you put your fingers to the keyboard. Also, Old Scratch the reason for the Dean becoming a signatory yesterday was so that he could counter sign cheques as a matter of urgency with Alun Williams as the Secretary (Arthur Impey) is on holiday now and, alas, our former Treasurer, Sir Donald Walters, is no longer with us.
DeleteYou really are a dullard as well as perplexed.
DeleteIf the poison dwarf doesn't know the amounts involved he would not be in a position to describe them at all, much less as "generous".
The point is that the glove puppet should know absolutely nothing at all about individual people's giving and obviously you are equally ignorant of the meaning of "confidentiality".
Not to mention that an individual's giving to one registered charity has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their giving to a second registered charity or their fitness to hold office in either charity.
Here's the bit that "perplexes" me. In the email of 3rd July, the Dean (in his capacity as Chair of the Friends) "took immediate steps to ask Mr Alan Williams to take charge to set up new mandates for the Bank" before any mention was made of him becoming pro tem Treasurer of the Friends.
DeleteThen at the Friends AGM Williams presented himself as pro tem Treasurer. This was not subject to a vote. What was actually voted on was whether he and the Dean should be signatories to the account. In which case, Williams has not actually been voted into his current role as such.
I leave it to members of the Friends' Council to consider the implications of this for the charity.
The question of conflicts of interest is highlighted by the Dean's statement later in the 3rd July email re a new Treasurer: "the person holding such a position in the Friends, will need to be a person who is also, deeply embedded in the worshipping life of the Cathedral in all ways, including their own financial stewardship."
Quite apart from the unnecessary emphasis on the stewardship question, this reveals considerable naivety on the Dean's part because the Friends are a separate charity and a capable Treasurer could equally be a member of the Friends from far away and have no connection to the Cathedral whatsoever.
In this case let us look at the regulations governing Charity trustees and conflicts of interest:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/conflicts-of-interest-a-guide-for-charity-trustees-cc29/conflicts-of-interest-a-guide-for-charity-trustees
"2.2 PREVENT the conflict of interest from affecting the decision:
Trustees must make their decisions only in the best interests of the charity. This means that they must consider the issue of the conflict of interest so that any potential effect on decision making is eliminated. How they do this will depend on the circumstances. In cases of serious conflicts of interest it may mean the trustees deciding to remove the conflict by:
* not pursuing a course of action
* proceeding with the issue in a different way so that a conflict of interest does not arise
* not appointing a particular trustee or securing a trustee resignation"
"3.1 What is a conflict of interest? (legal requirement)
A conflict of interest is any situation in which a trustee’s personal interests or loyalties could, or could be seen to, prevent the trustee from making a decision only in the best interests of the charity.
Key points about identifying conflicts of interest:
A conflict of interest exists even where there is the possibility that a trustee’s personal or wider interests could influence the trustee’s decision making.
Even the perception that there is a conflict of interest can damage the charity. Where the perception is not accurate because there is no conflict of interest, the trustees should always be able to respond appropriately to the situation by managing the risks to the charity and being prepared to explain how they have made their decisions only in the best interests of the charity.
Conflicts of interest relate to a trustee’s personal interests and the interests of those connected to them. This means that there is a conflict of interest where there is a proposed transaction between the charity and a connected person. Similarly, there is a conflict of interest where there is a benefit or a potential benefit to a connected person."
As the Dean is the Chair of the charity giving grants, and the head of the charity receiving them (Dean & Chapter of Llandaff Cathedral, a separate body), there's a clear and obvious conflict already. The best interests of the Friends charity do not necessarily coincide with the Cathedral.
There should be clear blue water between the two charities.
Gerwhine's pathetic email makes it sound as though the position of Treasurer of the Friends of Llandaff Cathedral is up for auction to the highest bidder.
DeleteUtterly squalid.
I hope and pray someone had the foresight to make a recording of the Friend's AGM and provide a transcript to those who were unable to attend?
DeleteLux Et Veritas is absolutely correct.
DeleteBoth written descriptions of Sir Donald's giving as "very generous" and "month by month" are indeed significant breaches of confidentiality and I can only imagine Sir Donald being horrified by private information being carelessly bandied around as justification for this unseemly hostile take-over of the Friends' bank account.
A formal investigation by the highest Church in Wales authorities into the Llandaff situation and the conduct of this sham Dean is already long overdue.
How much worse will it have to get before John Davies will pull his thumb out of his backside and react?
There's a very simple solution to all this. This correspondence should be forwarded to the Charity Commissioners with immediate effect (and copies to the Bishop-Designate of Llandaff). The poor little gnome is clearly out of his depth, and is being pushed about by persons unknown in the shadows (I wonder who?). This is the biggest car crash in slow motion I have seen for a long time. By the way, Norman Lloyd Edwards is behaving to form. Perfectly.
DeleteI pray for the Dean - imagine having to wake up each day and having to deal with you bitter, bitter, tiny-minded and unkind people. I understand (from good authority) that Bishop-designate June is impressed by the calibre of the Dean's leadership and intends to fully support him. We need to remind ourselves that you bitter people are very much in the minority in the Cathedral and probably amongst those who give the least (not just in terms of money on the plate).
DeleteI couldn't agree more Scapegoat. Well done for sticking up for our much loved, hard working Dean. I will back you all the way.
Delete@1662, a transcript is now available at:
Deletehttps://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/the-llandaff-problem.html
So I see Llandaff Pewster, many thanks once again.
DeleteYou and Ancient Briton should be Knighted for services freely provided to the good people of Llandaff and Freedom of Information.
Perhaps the little Dean thinks they should have a big seat at the front of his Cathedral like they used to for the biggest givers in Welsh chapels. Perhaps he was so concerned to remind the Friends of his own righteousness that it didn't occur to him that some people like to do good works without it being widely known but he misused information which he should not have had and clearly cannot be trusted with. It seems he only looks at the headline giving and has forgotten the widow's mites.
DeleteI would hate to cause any last-minute flusters and high blood pressure, but it may be the case that our young, inexperienced and insecure Dean may have failed to put the date of the new Bishop's Enthronement in his diary. I thought I would mention it, because I'm sure he would not want to find himself answering a call on his mobile phone, whilst driving to an indeterminate location in, say, Herefordshire, only to discover he should be in his Cathedral doing his duty to install his Neme... I mean New Bishop. Why am I worried? Well, if you go to 'Future Events' on the Cathedral website, you get a very impressive electronic diary, all beautifully laid out. On Saturday 22nd July it simply says there is a visiting choir and services are at the usual times. Unless, of course, the new Bishop is going to arrive for her enthronement only to find there is no-one to greet her. Given the wholesale lack of information about the enthronement on the Diocesan website, one wonders as to the significance of the silence.
ReplyDeleteHeadless chickens in the Deanery? Surely not!
DeleteFor heaven's sake get your facts right before you criticise the Dean. If you look at the July music sheet it clearly states about the Bishop's enthronement is at 11.00 am on 22 July.
DeleteAnd I see a similar absence in the diary in THE BELL, too, with only a passing reference to Her Ladyship's impending enthronement from the lad in the deanery. Anyone would think he's not looking forward to this new era in the life of the Diocese.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Gerwhine is appealing for a new editor of THE BELL. Not only is the readership falling (just like the regular giving - any connection I wonder?); but we're told that this is 'an important ministry of communication.' Well I never. If the poor little gnome got up off his arse and approached some suitable people instead of making pathetic appeals in the parish magazine, he might not need to come over as the incompetent, bumbling amateur he is. Do you imagine June Osborne has put out similar appeals in her publications in Salisbury? I bet not.
Why doesn't The Capon simply scrap his tawdry parochial rag and suggest that people head for this Blog, where they will get all the news they can manage about Llandaff Cathedral, without it being filtered and manipulated. Job done.
.... except communicant numbers, Organ Appeal accounts or the Quinquennial report, all of which remain hidden.......
DeleteOf course. I had forgotten. Up to the time of Napoleon's departure, the communicant numbers were always published in THE BELL. No need to speculate why they are hidden from sight these days. Never mind, they will be fully available to Bishop June every time she asks to see the service register (which any member of the electoral role can request to view, too, by the way).
DeleteNice bit of information 'Arrogant L.S**t'. I shall review when I'm back next term in Cardiff.
DeleteIf you don't like how the Dean is running the Cathedral you know what you can do.....go somewhere else. The Dean and his loyal parishioners would be better off without you and your vicious libellous words. Good riddance and don't come back.
DeleteIf you don't agree with how the Dean is running the Cathedral you know what you can do - belt up, shut up and get out and take your vicious words with you. Good riddance....
DeleteNo. I prefer to stay and be a thorn in his side. And yours.
Delete"Why doesn't The Capon simply scrap his tawdry parochial rag and suggest that people head for this Blog, where they will get all the news they can manage about Llandaff Cathedral, without it being filtered and manipulated" - ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..can't breathe...
ReplyDeleteLaSophia
Can't breathe? Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
Delete@Perplexed may be acting as Gerwhine's spokesperson with his/her "belt up, shut up and get out and take your vicious words with you" (very similar to Gerwhine's lack of punctuation, actually). But what would happen if they did? Certainly there'd be no money coming in to run the place, and no-one worshipping there. May be Gerwhine should consider his position, especially as he was never really up to the job in the first place, and allow his new Bishop to appoint a properly qualified candidate who will enable the Cathedral to grow and flourish like it did before Morgan's Minions got their sticky fingers on it.
ReplyDeleteHe will be Assistant Bishop in the autumn so don't worry.
ReplyDeleteThe intellectual pygmy couldn't make Assistant Bishop on a chess board.
DeleteDon't you believe it, Laughing Gas. In the Church in Wales, the more inept a person is, the higher they rise. Just look at the bench of bishops, and tell me in all honesty, which of them is a true Guardian of morals and Faith, a teacher of the word of God, and a Shepherd of souls?
DeleteMr Inquisitive
No Mr I, I believe I was correct first time.
DeleteIMHO, being appointed Bishop (or assistant Bishop) and making a Bishop are two very different things.
Sauron appointed Gollum Dean but Gollum will never make a Dean in this life or the next.
Bet Capon Senior wished son followed dad into Presbyterianism?
ReplyDeleteI bet Capon senior is very happy his son is a practising Christian and doing well in the Christian denomination of his choice.
ReplyDeleteAnd even more so, if as you say here on this blog, he will be the Assistant Bishop in the autumn. A very worthy appointment for such a talented, hard working servant of the church. June and Gerwyn, the dream team to rescue the diocese of Llandaff, with Dr Morgan in the background to give a helping hand and sound advice.
DeleteWhy on earth would the Diocese need rescuing if it wasn't for Morgan in the first place? After presiding over its decline he should get out and take his glove puppet with him. Then Gerwhine could find his rightful place as Bazza's butler.
DeleteSplendid! "Oh you of little faith". Babylon will rise from the ashes. The Enforcer is also your Enabler, who has always been consistent concerning the doctrine of the second coming, "Lo he comes with clouds descending". Target practise on Pontcana Fields will remain for the time being.
DeleteI was joking about the Asst Bishop. I don't actually know nor have ever met the Dean. However, when one considers appointing an Asst Bishop, I would think the Deans and Archdeacons in Wales would be all considered as a matter of course.
DeleteThat's all right Whamab - no stress or harm done. I'm sure that young Capon loves it really. Its just that Barry has always been allergic to having his leg pulled. I'm moving down soon. I've heard there's a Clint Eastwood lookalike hanging around Pontcana.
DeleteI really hope we don't get an Asst Bishop as increasingly we are all chiefs and no Indians .We have ever increasing office staff too which does not seem to help the parishes who pay for it all.
DeleteHere in Monmouth no one wants to lead Ministry Areas so one has just been given to a curate as no one applied for several months. My parents "ministry area" used to have 4 full time clergy and soon will have none!
When will senior management accept that Ministry Areas are not working?
I realise it is death pangs of a dying organisation but still painful to watch........
Ministry areas were never designed or intended to work, they are merely the mechanism by which the rapid decline of the Church in Wales was to be disguised and 'managed' until His Darkness retired and some other gullible fool is left in the hot seat to take the blame when it finally collapses in on itself.
DeleteInterestingly, the greatest resistance to these mission areas was in St Davids, where clergy morale is not yet at rock bottom, despite having an inept bishop foisted on them. +Wyn knew that the very idea of 'mission areas' went against the grain of traditional Anglican identity - and it means sweet F.A. to Joe Public if they are trying to arrange a baptism, marriage or a funeral. Talking of inept bishops, just look at Bangor. You have to have a PhD in faux ecclesiology to work out which is your local parish church: Bro Dyfi, Bro Enlli, Bro F**king What? Come on June, sort the lapdogs out before it's too late.
ReplyDeleteIt is already too late.
DeleteTrue enough Watchman, Bangor appears to be on its knees for all the wrong reasons, which is useful for lurking Barry, as he continues to manipulate his way around his kingdom of darkness.
DeleteMeanwhile, the 'Anglican Catholic Church of Wales', (not in Wales) has held its first Mass in the town of Llanrwst, St Asaph, where two gay lesbian clerics preside and cohabit in the vicarage. Well done Anglo Catholics, and, in the further interest of 'equality', may Father Parry find himself a good 'housekeeper' to provide nourishment for the mission ahead -"The Lord be with you" Rev. Not that it will cause indigestion for the Tree Eating bishop.