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| A rainbow of hoops under the Majestas in Llandaff Cathedral Original source: Church in Wales |
Is it just a coincidence that children are making a rainbow of coloured hoops in Llandaff Cathedral?
Artist Gilbert Baker who created the LGBT rainbow flag died in New York on Thursday. There was nothing Christian in its design. Baker's original flag had eight colours, each representing a different aspect of humanity:
- Pink - sexuality
- Red - life
- Orange - healing
- Yellow- sunlight
- Green - nature
- Turquoise - art
- Indigo - harmony
- Violet - human spirit
California State Senator Scott Weiner said Baker's work had "helped define the modern LGBT movement". Eager not to be left behind in the secular stakes, the Church in Wales quickly became gay friendly which makes the recent challenge by the Dean of St Albans to his rejection on grounds of homophobia all the more ridiculous.
The orchestrated campaign in favour of Jeffrey John's mission to be made bishop of Llandaff has been extraordinary in its breadth. From Commons to Senedd, from Cathedral Chapters to Area Deans. The written complaints displayed a similarity in their conclusion suggesting an organised attack.
Some members of the Electoral College decided that their oath of confidentiality was optional. Harry Farley of Christian Today was being briefed to present a one-sided case in favour of John. Why? The implication is that there is a group within the Church working to further their own aims similar to methods employed by feminists in Women and the Church. The results are plain for all to see.
The bench needs to heed the average pew-sitter who has had little to say but has supported a church which has become increasingly alien to them. Feminism and gay rights are not the primary mission of the Church.
AB, have you not just done the same thing that was condemned in an earlier post?... linking a photo of school children with these events in a public forum?
ReplyDeleteGhostOfTeilo
http://llandaff.churchinwales.org.uk/
DeleteAfraid it is a coincidence. The hoops were provided by Llandaff City School for the Year Six Leavers' Service in 2012, prior to the London Olympics, so in one sense the hoops alluded to the Olympic Rings and the harmony of nations. But my talk was about how many million miles the earth had travelled during their time at primary school (a figure which involved a lot of noughts) and how Christ had run with them for every mile,and would run with them for the rest of their lives.
DeleteThank you for your clarification +David. However, you will understand the confusion as there are five Olympic colours, blue, yellow, black, green and red, not the colours displayed.
DeleteFair point - I did order the Olympic colours, but the message didn't quite get through. But the Year Six Leavers' service is always a thrilling occasion, the cathedral packed with Year Sixes from our 22 wonderful church primaries, both excited and fearful for what the future holds. Last year just before the service I spotted one of the mums who looked very fragile, and asked if she was OK. It transpired she was due for major surgery the next day. We went into a side chapel where I prayed with her and anointed her for healing. At the end of the day, these quiet unsung moments are what ministry is all about. God bless. +David
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteGhostOfTeilo and others, I try to be sensitive to concerns of commentators whether or not I agree with them. There have been opposing views which have not been published because unwelcome attention is being drawn to the point you raised.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteThe time for change is long overdue AB.
ReplyDeletePerhaps there has not been a better opportunity in living memory.
On page 165 of the latest (2016) edition of the Llandaff Diocesan Yearbook published by the Church in Wales (and in the public domain - no leaks required to obtain this information!), there are 21 names listed under the heading “College of Episcopal Electors”.
The oath breakers, leakers and complainers must be among them.
“The Ven C Smith
The Revd Canon M Preece
The Revd Canon M Komor
The Revd Canon M Davies
The Revd J Gould
The Revd Canon S Kirk
The Revd B Andrews
The Revd Canon R M Capper
The Revd Canon S Lisk
The Revd Canon P A Cox
The Revd R T Pitman
Mrs J Young, Cardiff
Mr Paul Bennett, Neath
Miss C A Cobert, Cardiff
Ms M Seavor-Bevan, Merthyr Tydfil
Mrs M Lloyd-Nesling, Abercynon
Mrs B Cole, Neath
Dr G Foot, Cardiff
Prof J Shepherd, Cardiff
Mr S Jones, Bridgend
Mr D A Evans, Neath”
Those who did not take part will have no difficulty in coming forward to protect their personal and professional reputations.
As for the 12, if the guilty parties refuse to come forward of their own volition the others should feel duty and honour bound to identify them.
If they also refuse to do so but choose instead to close ranks then they should be dismissed en masse from the besmirched tainted “College of Episcopal Electors”.
The Electoral College had new elections for members at the end of 2016. This is the previous list not the electors for 2017-2019 and only the first six clergy and six lay would have been at the Llandaff election.
DeleteHas a later edition of the Yearbook been published?
DeleteIf not, be a dear and provide us with your updated list.
I don't "CHG,osi" will mind and perhaps you would also be so kind and send us the latest list of the Diocesan Standing Committee and Area Deans while you're at it.
Much appreciated.
That's a very useful titbit Pickwick.
DeleteSo, does that mean there were a different set of Llandaff representatives at the St. David's Electoral College of 1st & 2nd November 2016 to those attending the Llandaff Electoral College of 21st-23rd February 2017?
In which case, you might have unwittingly revealed why the deliberations at St. David's have remained confidential while Llandaff has leaked like a sieve and simultaneously narrowed down the list of possible suspects quite considerably.
Bravo.
Meanwhile in other news...https://stchrysostoms.wordpress.com/2017/04/01/jack-callahan-nominated-for-bishop-in-church-of-england/ If nothing else, at least we have a successor to Peter Capaldi!
Delete@CHG,osi @Pickwick @Ruth Does anyone REALLY care? Wales is bored with this ongoing nonsense. No-one is going to accept any blame and unless JJ lets us know which Bishop telephoned him, we'll NEVER know for sure. Can we leave it here, accept that what has now been decided has been done under the everwatchful care of the Holy Spirit and just move forwards please? Yes it's not entirely right or proper but at least we've dodged the bullet of Jeffrey John and for that we should be truly thankful.
DeleteAbsolutely not rbnr, what's the matter with you?
DeleteDodging the bullet of JJ is one thing but the unscrupulous bastards with the gun who fired the bullet must be dealt with before they have a chance to fire another bullet.
.So were the children told these were originally used to represent olympic rings ?
DeleteThat is not education -it is planting confusion in young minds.
Look Mummy those colours are the Olympic colours! The Bishop said so in church!
The whole plan is to make the gay flag colours a familiar sight in children's minds.
Indoctrination by stealth .
Beg to differ 'Retired but not retiring', it is not nonsense and people that care about Llandaff and the CinW certainly do care when you have dishonourable and cowardly people in one of the most important bodies of the CinW. It is not "...not entirely right or proper..." it is not right or proper at all. And to be so gutless as to implicate all the other members, cravenly hiding behind those members of the College who take their duty seriously and cannot comment on any of it is utterly beyond the pale. Since they did not have the simple decency to resign, we cannot move on with confidence while the person/s linger, a cancer within the College.
DeleteMatters Landavian have once again reached the threshold of the Bursary, where the following financial tidings were received with much interest.
ReplyDeleteAs the Easter Vestry meeting heaves into view, my sources inform me that the Cathedral's giving for the year ending 2016 dropped below the expected amount. Apparently the excuse for this was that the current economic climate is unfavourable.
However, I also understand the Parish Share was lower in 2016. This means quite simply that the numbers on the Electoral Roll are declining, as referred to by various correspondents in this blog. [see below as to how the Parish Share is calculated]
What is also interesting is that the Diocese has increased its contributions to the Cathedral. This surely means that they see a need to do so.
Also there is a significant amount of repair work to be done to the clerestory level in the Cathedral, which was scheduled to start after Christmas but has yet to materialise. This will undoubtedly be costly, despite grants received from Cadw and the Friends.
Let us hope a new Bishop of Llandaff addresses the need to put the Cathedral's finances on a sound basis, which will include stewardship, improved ministry, outreach and tourism.
-------
Parish share calculation - Diocese of Llandaff
http://cinw.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/10/Parish-Share-I-want-to-know-v2.pdf
After calculating a parish’s Fixed Ministry Element [i.e. stipendary clerics paid by the parish, but not by the Diocese] the remainder of the Fairer Share assessment is based upon the average number of weekly church attendees, over the most recent three year period. This information is provided by parish clergy and officers through the annual parish return provided to the diocese.
Extremes in attendance, at such times as Christmas and Easter do not form part of the formula which parishes are asked to use. Those aged under 18 years old are also excluded from the assessment.
Unlike the Church of England, The Church in Wales includes all its cathedrals within the diocesan Fairer Share system; cathedrals contribute through the Fairer Share system in exactly the same way as all other parishes within the diocese.
Is it possible to calculate the average number of weekly attendees at the Cathedral during 2016.
DeleteNow that Gerwhine has prevented the weekly Communicant numbers being published in the Bell, it might be very telling.
As for the new Bishop, a visitation is an urgent priority, just like Exeter.
Clearly there is enough money sloshing around at Llandaff to enable the choir vestry to be converted into a very large new office for the Dean.
DeleteIt seems that the overly-large office already provided for the bloated Cathedral administration is not sufficient to accommodate his ambitions. The robing room, which has been there since the Cathedral was rebuilt after World War II and served generations of choristers, is in the process of being converted.
Meanwhile I am reliably informed that the beautiful Chapter House is now used as a dumping ground for surplus furniture. This lumber room is said to be very convenient for the Head Verger in his constant effort to cut corners.
Also located in the Chapter House are the hymn books that were also dumped there. Llandaff now spends £1000s printing out separate service sheets with hymns in them for the 9am and 11am services. I suspect this is to justify the additional staff who require all that space in the office.
A simple way of stopping this constant waste of money at Llandaff would be to abolish the Office and just have a single verger on a zero-hours contract. The rest of the administration could be handled by the Dean, in his office at the deanery which was sufficient for all his predecessors.
So that's where the grants from Cadw and the Friends of Llandaff Cathedral are being spent while absolutely nothing is being done to repair the Clerestory, the Lady Chapel, the processional way, the Prebendal House..........
DeleteWhat of the Quinquennial report? Of the work listed under the headings "for immediate attention", "needs doing within 12 months" and "needs doing within 24 months", what has been carried out in the Cathedral that sacked its handyman and cleaner the week before Christmas?
The true priorities of the Chapter (that have spent more time trying to rig the Electoral College and force Jeffrey John on us than they have on their duty of care for the Cathedral fabric) couldn't be clearer.
Come on +John Davies, get translated and get sweeping with that new broom asap please.
Gerwhine's accommodation needs are many Simon Stylites.
DeleteApart from the choir vestry conversion he already occupies two other vestries with Mr Toad while the Sunday School is desperate for more space but goes without.
Then his new accommodations will require furnishing in the style to which he is accustomed which might be why the vergers were humping new furniture into the place yesterday.
With so little time given to Cathedral matters one could be forgiven for wondering if his main job is in the antiques trade with the Cathedral and Parish being a hobby.
Or just another case of 'little man' syndrome?
DeleteThe Diocese of Bangor also contributes to its cathedral, for better or for worse. The place remains cold, dark and closed to visitors on the city's busiest day each week but with decreasing numbers of volunteers and no apparent vision I suppose that we must
ReplyDeletethank heaven for any tiny nuggets of joy that affirm our shared faith.
Disillusioned with well dressed priests
A gracious response from the Assistant Bishop. He is a writer; so, we might expect to encounter his own reflections on these turbulent weeks, in due course, in story, memoir or diary form. Whether that will happen or not, I hope that history is kinder to him than this blog has sometimes been. He came to Llandaff to assist an Archbishop whose focus was often (necessarily) dissipated between the immediate Diocese and beyond. In some ways, he, (the Archbishop) seemed to operate in a similar manner to the late John Paul II, who channelled significant energies into the world outside the Vatican, leaving some internal concerns to be settled by delegated deputies, at home. Evenso, the Pontiff always retained the ultimate say over each matter, never wholly devolving anything in its entirety. And this has probably been the case with +David – some – but not complete -authority to act in some- but not all- matters. So hopefully, he will be remembered (like his namesake) for his attention to the ‘little things’, as much as anything else – as illustrated in his own vignette reported above. I suspect he provided balance and contrast on many occasions, unknown to many of us, in a context that would not always have been easy, and where difference had to be carefully negotiated by all concerned.
ReplyDeleteHear hear @Commonsense40 - +David is an exceptional man who will be greatly missed. Never took his eye off the mission of the church in spreading the good news of the risen Christ. His Lent talks have been superb. I am so sorry the the CiW will be losing out on his undoubted qualities.
ReplyDeleteCodwallop.
Delete"But my talk was about how many million miles the earth had travelled during their time at primary school (a figure which involved a lot of noughts) and how Christ had run with them for every mile,and would run with them for the rest of their lives." +David.
Christ has and will run with those children all their lives.
But the Church in Wales will not.
If any of those children are from traditionalist Apostolic catholic Anglican families (as mine are and my grandchildren) who don't accept priestesses bishopesses, civil partnerships, gay marriage and so on, there is no ministry for them from Wilbourne. His 'ministry', like that of so many others, has been highly selective and at all times had to tow Barry Morgan's secular line.
At no time have I heard of him speaking out in favour of a replacement for Bishop David Thomas.
Just another of Morgan's dud appointments selected for a lack of spine who wouldn't stand up to the deadly Jackson/Wigley duet and their MAE coven.
After all, Wilbourne was the front-man for all the PR spouted by the websites on the appointment of Ceirion Gilbert just 18 months ago. (http://llandaff.churchinwales.org.uk/news/2015/10/new-cleric-for-llandaff-cathedral/)
Where Wilbourne when Ceirion mysteriously disappeared?
That was certainly one of those quiet 'unsung' moments of his ministry!
After 8 years in the Llandaff Diocese what is the legacy of +David?
DeleteDoes anyone believe -Barry permitted him to exercise any initiative or independence, never mind a legacy?
In any case, he's gone, history.
I am delighted to read --Barry's Chaplain has also been promoted into a real job, good luck to him and God's blessings.
So now Barry's appointees have been retasked elsewhere that leaves another outstanding matter.
Perhaps many of AB's readers won't know, to to fund --Barry's profligacy and empire building he effectively took money out of the pockets of the retired clergy.
There was a charitable fund that had been built up over many years by a loyal and faithful servant of the Llandaff Diocese (John Nixon, a former solicitor who sadly passed away years ago) for the purposes of providing retired clergy with a Christmas gift, a small amount of money.
If most people realised how poor the CinW clergy pension scheme is, they would understand how much this meant and how significant it was to a great many of the retired clergy.
But to pay for his Chaplain and Ass, --Barry confiscated this fund and stopped the retired clergy's Christmas gift.
Since --Barry's Ass and Chaplain have now been redeployed, I invite +John Davies as acting Bishop of Llandaff to announce the immediate re-instatement of the retired clergy's Christmas gift.
Except for --Barry, he doesn't need it over in Llys Ego.
God forbid, but if the rumours are true, Lord Morgan of Gwaun-cae-Gurwen will be able to claim £40,000 a year for nodding off in the upper House.
Gifts that are given for specific, or even implied, reasons should always be honoured unless it is impossible to do so.
DeleteJust when you think this man could sink no lower, out seeps yet more ordure.
To lay waste to the cathedral in your charge and more than decimate the CinW – who knows, perhaps he has become so secularised that he thinks there will be no reckoning for selling your soul to get your bottom on a red leather bench.
If anyone has a copy of the doc deed of gift, will whatever, now is the time to get it out for an airing, with the stench surrounding some of the Greener appointments, the last odour they'll want to add is a high, rank clergyman.
"God forbid"? When it comes to shifty trusts or Church in Wales pension accounts during Morgan era, maybe First Minister Carwyn and all Assembly Party Leaders should pull the brakes on possible peerage for the Dark One, and remind themselves what happened when the Rector of Benllech stepped on a dodgy clergy pension fund managed at 39 Cathedral Road 1994. www.scandal and offence.com "Who shall rid us of this troublesome priest".
DeleteIf Dr Morgan's sermons and leadership were as riveting as his ability of aiding, abetting and to conspire, his contribution to the church and society would inevitably guarantee peerage. Tragically, as it turns out, he has proven himself to be more like a feudal landlord and thief. He has left a church which is in disarray, it would be wrong even to wish him well let alone a peerage. But then, aren't they, like him, a bunch of joker's anyway?
DeleteBerwyn
Not the Berwyn from Anglesey of 1993? Blimey I thought Barry had embalmed you a long time ago. Shame you fell out over the Llan (Welsh Church newspaper) RIP. Was a good laugh, but He didn't take too well. Did He?
DeleteI do hope that we have managed to dodge "Bishop" John (more a damp squib than a bullet), but whilst we have people who are so dishonourable and cowardly driving personal agenda, anything is possible.
ReplyDeleteIt is important that the College of Episcopal Electors represent the widest possible spectrum of views within the CinW but they must ALL be honourable, trustworthy people.
The person/people who did this went so far beyond "...entirely right or proper..." conduct that the perpetrator/s, far from acting under the guidance of the Holy Ghost, utterly betrayed the sacred trust invested in them.
They are dishonourable not just for breaking that trust, but that they did not immediately resign.
Worse still, they are cowardly, sheltering behind all those that acted honourably, knowing that they can say nothing about what happened without breaking their sacred trust.
It is impossible to “…move forwards…” while the untrustworthy, dishonourable and craven remain in the College, waiting an opportunity to do it again.
That Llandaff has been made into bloated, rotting carcass can hardly be surprised given that people were appointed to posts way beyond their experience and competence to deal with and all they have done is invent posts for their chums.
Precisely Sian.
DeleteWell said.
Craven indeed.
Talking of inventing posts for chums, the ears in the walls report that the slimy amphibian Mr Toad has been given a new job title.
DeleteDid anyone spot an advertisement, a job description, a competitive interview process conducted by the Chapter?
Of course not.
The Chapter don't even know about it because they are being deceived, just as they have been over the disappearance of Hugh the handyman and Jade the cleaner.
What happens now to the Archbishop's PA, the Archbishop's press officer, the Assistant Bishops secretary and the extra part time secretary, as well as the enormous office spaces built at Llys Esgob???
ReplyDeleteAB, I have sent two entries drawing attention to your exploitative use of the picture of our dear children in the Diocese and your abhorrent suggestion that they were the victims of a pro-gay subliminal form of indoctrination at the hands of the assistant bishop. I asked for your apologies and you have not published my comments. You are, without doubt, spineless.
ReplyDeleteScapegoat - you lose your value by being 'obnoxious'. Don't take your eye off the ball - keep up your valuable and considered objections to the hugely conservative (and often offensive) comments posted on this blog. Conservative and meaningless to the majority of non-churchgoers they may be - but we have to answer them. Don't descend to the level of ad hominem. You've been doing well so far. AB will always publish your considered comments even if he/she doesn't agree with them
DeleteScapegoat, your next tirades have been binned as were your previous obnoxious comments about other commentators. The answers to your complaints should be apparent from the comments above. If you check the timeline you should realise the stupidity of your offensive claims. If this is still beyond your comprehension I suggest you seek help.
ReplyDeleteIf Scapegoat has returned from feeding his ducks at Roath Park to start blogging again (after he said he was off to form his own little gay Church) I'd quite like to see his latest petulant remarks AB.
DeleteHe's done a very good job of proving he is a troll.
Some more one-sided drivel might be helpful in revealing yet more insights about the nature of the flawed character behind the nom-de-plume
Rather like the insights we all gained from sight of Masson's email to the Chapter and Jeffrey John's letter to +John Davies.
LP, I know how irritating it can be when things are going on in the background which you cannot see. Suffice to say that my reference to children holding hoops has been used to obscure the fact that a rainbow effect was being used on the Llandaff Cathedral web site. Different rainbow symbols have been used in other churches.
Deletehttps://ancientbritonpetros.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/first-misogynistic-then-homophobic-now.html
Whether the hoops were held by adults, children or displayed on easels makes no difference. +David has since explained the circumstances. I have simply disallowed unwelcome exploitation to gain points. See also 2 April 2017 at 22:26, above.
Forgive me AB, I am not in the least bit irritated.
DeleteBut I can well imagine Scapegoat is most frustrated at not getting his way.
As I also imagine are Barry Morgan, Jeffrey John, Philip Masson, Peggy the Pilate (who has been remarkably invisible of late - imminent retirement I hope), Wigley, Capon and the other usual suspects.
And still no news of a new Bishop for Llandaff.
I hear speculation that no-one wants the job.
Except Jeffrey John.
DeleteAnd he's not getting it!
You assume that scapegoat wanted Jeffrey John as Bishop. Actually, I believe he would have made a fine bishop and it angers me that homophobic comments in the Electoral College prevented him from being considered without bias. That said, my particular candidate was a woman. If I had been on the electoral college I would have voted for her.
DeleteSo I am not at all frustrated, but I will call out injustice where I see it, and there is a difference.
Still looking for a suitable venue for my 'little gay church' - the thing is, we tend to like our home comforts do we gays, so it's proving difficult to find a place which is sizeable enough and also of a standard worthy of gay reception. You know what we gays are like - very fussy.
All will be welcome in the gay wing, once established. There will be no 'gossip on the green' though - we prefer things out and very much in the open.
Scapegoat. You speak as if you were on the Electiral College in that you say homophobic remarks were made. If you weren't there you really don't know what was or wasn't said. You are merely repeating hearsay. Unless of course you were a member and are pulling wool over our eyes!
DeleteOut?
DeleteReally?
Well you can have Peter Tatchell too.
While you're at it take Capon and MrToad with you.
I call bullshit again.
Delete@Scapegoat
DeleteI assume nothing.
I was referring to your churlish tantrums to have Jeffrey John's name re-instated to the short list.
If you weren't at the Electoral college, you saw nothing.
All you achieved was highlighting some of your own prejudices.
Pickwick has the measure of you.
Just to keep you updated on the Oath-breaking bishop. We are getting no where fast. Below is my letter plus response.
ReplyDeleteDear Mr Lloyd
I do not seem to have received a response my email of last Friday.
I would be grateful if you could clarify the matter as soon as possible.
If the undertaking by the Bishop of Swansea and Brecon is not going to be fulfilled, would you please send me the relevant paperwork upon which I can make my own complaint under the Clergy Discipline Measure? I had requested this from the Secretariat, nearly two weeks ago, but that request has been ignored.
Yours sincerely
Gareth James.
Dear Mr James
Further to your emails of 31 March and 4 April. Mr Lloyd is currently on annual leave, returning to the office on Tuesday, 11 April so will not be in a position to reply before then.
With my good wishes
Sue Brookman
PA to the Provincial Secretary
You will understand why, in the light of the above, I am not an enthusiast for the emerging desire to see the occupant of Ely Tower translated to Llandaff. He is just another of those who promises what he has no intention of delivering.
I hate to be the person who urinates on a particular bonfire, but does this scenario strike others as being close to the truth? I am beginning to wonder.
ReplyDeleteThe Diocese of Llandaff (in the collective guise of its electors and senior staff - all appointed by the Golfer, of course) were picking up on the possibility of a translation: not from St Asaph; but from Swansea and Brecon. This, they concluded, would be the end of the gravy train and bring the era of political correctness to a screeching halt. A credible 'Stop the Dodgy Ex-Solicitor At All Costs' strategy had to be mounted. They convinced themselves, given all Barry Morgan's rhetoric about inclusivity, that this was a view shared by all the Bench Sitters. What possible objection could there be to a big fish like Jeffrey John?
What is becoming clear is that not all of the Bench Sitters share the Golfer's convictions. What has become abundantly clear is that this was never really about Jeffrey John, fundamentally: it was about blocking John Davies being translated to Llandaff. We watch the ultimate outcome with interest because chickens could still come home to roost. Then there will be one hell of a lot of squawking.
The problem with this scenario Aghast is that certain people in Llandaff were known to be desperate to avoid a woman bishop. Jeffrey John seemed the most likely candidate to achieve this and nearly did. Perhaps it was supposed to be a foregone conclusion. After all, I heard months before the St Davids Electoral College that Joanna Penberthy was to be the next bishop. Along with others I dismissed the suggestion as mischief making.
ReplyDeleteThe furore that followed Jeffrey John's rejection suggests that his election was expected to be nodded through. When that failed the public campaign was launched to achieve the desired result even though it clearly demonstrated that John was not a suitable candidate.
A woman bishop in Llandaff? Really? Is there any way the Electoral College, let alone the Bench Sitters (minus the manipulating Golfer) would have gone with that and caused meltdown in the most populous Diocese of the Church in Wales? However, I agree with your thesis on St David's. This was to be the jewel in the Golfer's crown before retirement, and he deployed his various lieutenants around Ceredigion to drip-feed Joanna Penberthy's name. I am told that she was even prayed for in St Michael's, Aberystwyth, on the Sunday before the Electoral College met at St David's.
DeleteI prayed for her and was pleased she was appointed. And what would be so wrong with a woman bishop in Llandaff - in the most welcoming and populous capital city where being a women does not preclude you (nor should it) from appointment to any vacancy.
DeleteGrow up folk and end this phobic stance on gays and women. Learn some kindness please.
Do you remember what happened when the Dark --Lord tried a woman Dean?
DeleteOr weren't you here then?
You can take the MAE coven with you to your little gay church at Minsky's.
I was here - she was the best thing to happen to the Cathedral and a fabulous preacher. She was kind and deeply spiritual. Sadly she had to leave (I was never sure why) but was replaced by someone equally kind and spiritual. I thought we were looking for a new Bishop not as Dean? Have I misunderstood?
DeleteWhy don't you ask her why?
DeleteOr better yet, ask bully boy --Bazza why?
You have had 3 years to do so.
Or perhaps you actually didn't care that much?
Equally kind and spiritual?
DeleteAre you serious?
Have you read the letter sent to Mrs X?
What Universe do you inhabit?
Janet's biggest problem was Barry.
DeleteAnd that she believed the bullshit he fed her before she agreed to take the job.
Llandaff was a crock of shit then and it's a crock of shit now.
The only difference is that Morgan has gone.
It could and should have happened sooner, but we are where we are.
You do make us laugh and you are full of shit!
DeleteI like to believe I am full of faith; I don't take kindly to the suggestion I am full of shit. But each to their own.
DeleteCut out the 'I am' scapegoat. You're giving the game away.
DeleteBenllech is a beautiful place for a bit of role play and game playing, I would have thought. Without giving too much of the game away, wink, wink.
DeleteAs for asking Dean Janet why she left, I never asked her. However, I have remained in correspondence with her and follow her work with genuine interest. It seemed a brave act at the time and she was too discreet and spiritual a person to say anything that might stroke 'the gossip of the Green'. I rather admire that, leaving behind people who would give anything to know what happened because they love the gossip and the intrigue. Janet is a person of faith and dignity and the manner in which she left and the manner in which she has subsequently conducted herself continue to speak of her integrity. There are many of you who contribute to this site who would do well to learn from her, myself included. An inspiration.
Delete"Benllech"? You might just be sailing too close to the wind on this one Scapegoat. Such extraordinary curiosity is in danger of killing the cat. It depends what your predilection is.
DeleteOld enough to recall the BBC Wales headlines of the time ... no smoke without fire? Or was it more a case of more fire, less smoke? Certainly seemed hot stuff at the time.
DeleteCan we avoid tit for tat comments and remain on topic please.
DeleteAny comments I have made that have been 'on topic' have been deleted because you are incapable of saying sorry for exploiting the image of the children of our Diocese. I repeat - you are shameful and shallow, but you will not publish this. You unashamedly exploit the 'rainbow' image for your homophobic purposes.
DeleteHowever, it pleases me more that the message gets to you personally. I care not that it is published and still less that you will post your own facile response without publishing my comment.
You ought to be totally ashamed of this post, but sadly, I doubt that you are. And you refuse to say sorry - too drawn by generating 'gossip for the Green'.
How ashamed of your initial post you must be not to be able to post the criticisms that I have levelled at you - namely that you have exploited this innocent image of the dear children of our Diocese. Yet how arrogant not to delete the post all together. How arrogant and lacking in humility not to say 'sorry, I over stepped even myself and construed evil intent where there was none". And how even more shallow and lacking in grace that you will not publish comments that draw attention to the error you fail to confess. I can't tell you how disappointed I am by your lack integrity; but then you know that most keenly.
DeleteIf you don't like Ancient Briton's blog so much, why don't you bugger off and start your own, like your little gay Church?
DeleteI can't say I have noticed any sign of contrition on your part, much less an apology, for your comments about the Bishops excluding Jeffrey John from further consideration.
Even after you have had the benefit of reading a 16 page legal decision on the false allegations and three meritless complaints.
I agree with 1662.
You're full of it and full of yourself.
Some of your contributors AB are simply divisive activists, and rather than enabling the discussions you present,their goal is subversive undermining of the tradition and faith of the Church.
ReplyDeleteIf one is full of faith then we accept the doctrines and teaching of that faith: attempts to rewrite our creed system is anarchy.
If the cap fits...
"Thank you for your clarification +David. However, you will understand the confusion as there are five Olympic colours, blue, yellow, black, green and red, not the colours displayed."
ReplyDeleteOf course we will not understand - you made a cheap and facile correlation between those hoops help by innocent children and your warped homophobic mind. Shameful and unchristian.
Scapegoat appears to lack an increasing and worrying degree of caution AB. In times of desperation He needs to calm down. "Take heed all ye who enter here".
ReplyDelete@Scapegoat
ReplyDeleteI think the original question AB asked was within reason. +David clarified what the intent was behind the event, after all the rainbow belongs to all not just to the LGBT lobby. Maybe a postscript would've been in order with the Assistant Bishop's clarification?
I think you are not doing your cause any good by latching onto this tenuous grievance against AB. Your comments are becoming as vitriolic and nasty if not worse than some that have been directed your way.
Regards
Whamab
Following on from the Bursar, last year's Llandaff Cathedral accounts are now available in any Cardiff library in the section marked "Fiction".
ReplyDeleteWho does the glove puppet really think he's kidding?
There were some donkeys on The Green yesterday but only one of them had four legs.
DeleteLlandaff is not alone in facing financial problems.
Deletehttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/08/cathedrals-financial-crisis-church-england
"Anglicans launch rescue bid as England’s finest cathedrals battle a financial crisis"
"Fiction" indeed Simple Simon.
DeletePage 7, "Changes in Employed Staff
The following staff left the Cathedral's employ in 2016:
1) Mr Tim Hill Acting Director of the Choristers - June
The following people were appointed in 2016:
1) Mr Stephen Moore Director of Music - September
So, on the face of it, one in and one out during 2016.
But, page 20 under Note 4
"Staff costs
Gross Salaries for 2016 = £157,225 and 2015 = £154,477
Average number of employees for 2016 = 9, 2015 = 10
Therefore, 10-1+1 should=10
But somehow in Llandaff 10-1+1=9
Then there's the mystery of how the dismissals of Hugh the Handyman and Jade the Cleaner don't even merit a mention.
So the average salary of 10 employees in 2015 was £15,447.70 but in 2016 the average salary of 9 employees was £17,469.44?
It would seem Peggy the Pilate's school of creative accounting is still in business.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39556634
DeleteCathedral closures possible amid cash crisis, Church of England says
A friend from Llandaff kindly sent me a copy of the Annual Report and Financial Statements for the year ending 31st December 2016. He thought it would make interesting reading and so it did.
DeleteThe headline is of course that in 2016 there was a "net surplus on unrestricted funds is £42,550 vs £4250 in 2015." On the face of it this is encouraging.
However, a little digging is soon rewarded. On page 18 of the accounts is the "Incoming resources" page, listing donations and income.
Firstly the Donations are down £17K on 2015 (£323,053 versus £340,080). This is partly due to a significant decline in Envelopes given at services (£47,514 vs £53,999 last year) and the direct giving dropping by about £1700.
Secondly there is a marked increase in the Diocesan contribution. Last year it was £48,699 and this year it rose to £67,322, up by £18,623. The Diocese evidently needs to shore up the Cathedral's finances.
Moving on to p19, "Resources expended" we can see trends in the Cathedral's outgoings.
The key figure here (as I predicted earlier in this thread, see above) is the Parish Share figure. This has dropped from £168,049 in 2014, to £153,980 in 2015 and now £146,430 in 2016. Remember this is calculated on average Sunday attendance.
This means the attendance is now 13% less than it was in 2014. Curiously this is exactly the same as the fall in envelope contributions at Sunday services.
Other things to note:
DeleteSalaries have risen from £155,922 in 2014, to £165,551 in 2015 and now £172,057. There has been a £16K rise in just two years.
Meanwhile the Office supplies budget has also risen from £12,853 in 2014, to £18,734 then £19,123. Again, a rise of over £6000 in two years. Has paper suddenly become more expensive?
The contribution from the Friends amounts to £53K, which is split between the annual contribution to the Music and a sum of £26,599 towards Repairs.
Taking into account the Diocesan contribution and the decreased Parish Share, the so-called "surplus" includes £26,173 of funding from the Diocese. Also the Cathedral only spent £22K on repairs, thanks to the Friends, compared to £39K last year. That's another "saving" of £16,475.
Put these together (£26,173 plus £16,475) and you get £42,648 which is just about the so-called "surplus".
In reality the Cathedral is barely breaking even and with a falling congregation it is already in a dangerous position.
After all, there's only so much creative accounting one can do with the "fair value" of properties.
Thank you Bursar, as enlightening and helpful as ever, but exactly what IS going on with the property valuations, re-valuations, re-re-valuations and re-re-re-revaluations?
Delete2012 Accounts – page 18
“A valuation was carried out on the properties in October 2010 by Crofts Davies & Co Chartered Surveyors. The basis of valuation was open market value and the trustees are of the opinion that there has been no significant movement in the valuations since 2010. The valuations were as follows:
11 The Green, Llandaff £680,000
Llandaff Cathedral School £725,000
Playing field £10,000
1 The White House, The Green, Llandaff £660,000
2 The White House, The Green, Llandaff £630,000
White House Cottage, The Green, Llandaff £785,000
Parish Hall £80,000
The Memorial Hall was independently valued during October as follows:
Memorial Hall, Llandaff £200,000”
2013 Accounts – page 17
“The basis of valuation was open market value and the trustees are of the opinion that there has been no significant movement in the valuations in 2013. The valuations were as follows:
11 The Green, Llandaff £680,000
Llandaff Cathedral School £725,000
Playing field £10,000
1 The White House, The Green, Llandaff £660,000
2 The White House, The Green, Llandaff £630,000
White House Cottage, The Green, Llandaff £785,000
Parish Hall £80,000
Memorial Hall, Llandaff £200,000”
2014 Accounts – page 19
“The basis of valuation was open market value and the trustees are of the opinion that there has been no significant movement in the valuations in 2014. The valuations were as follows:
11 The Green, Llandaff £680,000
Llandaff Cathedral School £725,000
Playing field £10,000
1 The White House, The Green, Llandaff £660,000
2 The White House, The Green, Llandaff £630,000
White House Cottage, The Green, Llandaff £785,000
Parish Hall £80,000”
2015 Accounts – page 20
“The basis of valuation was fair value. The residential properties and the parish hall were revalued in February 2016 by Graham Griffiths Estate Agents & Chartered Surveyors. Llandaff Cathedral School and grounds was valued by Alex Glanville BSc FRICS. The valuations were as follows:
Residential Properties £2,500,000
Llandaff Cathedral School and grounds £810,000
Parish Hall £35,000”
2016 Accounts – page 20
“The basis of valuation was fair value. The residential properties and the parish hall were revalued in February 2016 by Graham Griffiths Estate Agents & Chartered Surveyors. Llandaff Cathedral School and grounds was valued by Alex Glanville BSc FRICS. The valuations were as follows:
Residential Properties £2,525,000
Llandaff Cathedral School and grounds £825,000
Parish Hall £45,000”
So it appears 2016 was another peculiar year for property values in Llandaff on buildings that are only a couple of hundred yards apart.
The 4 residential properties increased in value by £25,000 (+1.0%), the Cathedral School and grounds increased in value by £15,000 (+1.86%) and the Parish Hall increased in value by £10,000 (+28.6%). However, remember this followed on from an equally peculiar 2015 when the 4 residential properties decreased in value by £255,000 (-9.07%), the Cathedral School and grounds increased in value by £75,000 (10.2%) but the Parish Hall decreased in value by £45,000 (-56.25%).
Not forgetting that although the Memorial Hall was valued at £200,000 it was sold for over £300,000.
For the five years of 2010 to 2014 "The basis of valuation was open market value and the trustees are of the opinion that there has been no significant movement in the valuations".
Does ANYONE have a legitimate explanation for these huge fluctuations in Llandaff property prices since the glove puppet moved into the Deanery?
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/church-wales-move-hq-one-12881289
DeleteSurely this article should be dated 1st April?
DeleteHaving spent £1000s on their redevelopment plans and planning applications it has just been shelved?
What's wrong with moving the 55 staff to all the empty accommodation at the former St Michelle's college of social work and the dark arts? That's losing over £300k per year BECAUSE IT IS UNDERUSED!
Truly, truly I say unto you, the lunatics are running the asylum.