"Former Llandaff Cathedral choir members question £4,000 payment to former Dean" says a report in WalesOnline. That is Barry's old mate Dean John Lewis who was paid £4,390 as an “Easter gift” despite the Cathedral's desperate financial position which resulted in "the slimming down of the Cathedral Choir in order to save nearly £50,000 which would significantly cut down the anticipated deficit of £81,000" (see 'Morgan's organ' here). Dean Henderson left with nothing other than "an apparent discrepancy in diocesan documents"!
Another WalesOnline report says that "Wales is no longer a nation of churchgoers but faith is alive"! Between 2011 and 2012, the number of adults attending Church in Wales Sunday services fell by 5%, from 33,783 to 32,171. Easter attendance dropped by 8% from 60,924 to 56,063. Research by Tear Fund in 2007 showed Wales had the lowest level of regular church attendance in the UK at 12%, behind England (14%), Scotland (18%), London (22%) and Northern Ireland (45%). The 2001 census showed 71.9% of the Welsh population were self-described Christians but this fell to just 57.6% by the time of the 2011 survey.
The Archbishop's response? - "Archbishop of Wales Barry Morgan is also intrigued by the continuing self-identification of so many people with the faith, saying: “It’s interesting, lots of people who are not regular worshippers claim to be Christian and they want that label for themselves. It’s not something people put on them.” Regardless of the low ranking of the Church in Wales in attendance figures the Archbishop likes to give the impression that he is leading world opinion. Concluding his Presidential Address to the Governing Body of the Church in Wales he said of blessing same-sex unions: "Much as some people may want to do so, the rule is the same as was the case over the re-marriage of divorced people – we need to wait for the Church, as a whole, to decide the matter – and we are beginning that process at this GB".
A law unto himself, there was no "waiting for the Church as a whole" to decide the question of the ordination of women. He did his own thing. This process is continuing at the Governing Body. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" sounds pretty unequivocal to me so why is Assisted Dying being discussed? The official position of the Church is that marriage is between one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others but the Governing Body is being dragged through the same process used to see women ordained to the priesthood so that it appears unremarkable despite being contrary to the faith of the Church as a whole.
Easter gift to Dean John Lewis? That puzzles me. Is this normal practice? Or is it a keep quiet present for something else we don't know about .
ReplyDeleteSo what is 'the Church as a whole'? The greater part of the One Holy Catholic Church (of which the Anglican communion professes to be a part),is the (Roman) Catholic Church.
Since when did++Barry follow 'rules'. As I previously commented ,as long as The Archbishop includes the word 'love' in his arguments , then he believes he has a Divine right to put anything into practice.
You can either call him a bully or deluded that he is infallible.
And going back to the previous blog where 'anonymous' referred to 'elected members of the GB' , let me tell you that ++ Barry does personally canvas,in a very charming way, for those puppets he wishes to see elected.
++Bazza's dirty little secrets are slowly coming to light.
ReplyDeleteConsider the available facts published in the Cathedral accounts.
Throughout the time Bazza's chum Bonaparte was in charge, increasingly large annual Easter 'gifts' were paid out to the Dean 'calculated on an agreed formula as a percentage of the giving throughout the year'.
In 2011 on a total recorded giving figure of £369,231, the Dean received a 'gift' of £4,190.
In 2012 on a (reduced) total recorded giving figure of £347,973, the Dean received an (increased) 'gift' of £4,340.
In 2013 on a total recorded giving figure of £387,109, Dean Janet Henderson received £nil.
Is it any wonder that Janet Henderson resigned in the face of such blatant discrimination?
And who has the authority to change the 'agreed formula?
Was the 'agreed formula' changed by agreement?
Perhaps the rumours that Janet is taking legal action against ++His Darkness personally are not groundless
It's fascinating to read the Archbishop's 'spokeswoman's (presumably his press officer) remark that "The Easter offering was common practice in the Church in the days before clergy could claim expenses. It was abolished in the Diocese of Llandaff in 2012 so the former Dean, John Lewis, was the last Dean to receive it."
DeleteThe accounts for the previous two financial years clearly indicate that large sums of money were spent on Trustees expenses, £30,970 in 2011 and £10,804 in 2012, but none in 2013, so it appears that Janet Henderson was shafted on both counts.
http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/news/2014/04/church-launches-mediation-service/
DeleteThe timing could not be more amusing!
Perhaps Barry Morgan and Janet Henderson will be the first to use this new service?
His Darkness jumps on yet another bandwagon, climate change http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/news/2014/04/archbishop-calls-for-action-on-climate-change-easter-address/ However he forgot to mention one cause of climate change, bovine flatulence, plus all that b*llsh*t which he and his senior managers excrete.
DeleteThe following is part of ++ Barry's Easter. Sermon referring to climate change:
Delete“We need to make fundamental changes to our lifestyle by living and working sustainably. That means promoting social justice and equality through Fair Trade, foodbanks, outward giving, night shelters and helping those in need; leading communities on ideas and learning about sustainable living; and seeking to reduce the use of resources through recycling, car sharing or making our graveyards havens for wildlife."
How can "promoting social justice" through Foodbanks,Night Shelters make any contribution to climate change?
Isn't it practice of the past for Clergy to 'receive' the Easter offering? I struggle with the assisted dying debate. The professional associations for doctors, nurses and others are clear that they do not support it. I can understand that a debate might want to be had about how the Church can support people with terminal illness. It would be far better putting efforts into supporting palliative care across Wales.
ReplyDeleteMost of these comments are just further examples of the personal vitriol that is propagated on this blog that make no helpful contribution other than, I suppose, to make those who post them feel better!! To me, the sad reality of the Janet Henderson debacle is:
ReplyDelete1 she should never have applied for a job that she patently couldn't do;
2 Barry certainly shouldn't have appointed her;
3 she had a nerve to accept the post;
4 she had a greater nerve still to do a runner in the way she did;
5 if any rumours that she's threatening legal action, whether against the Church in Wales, Llandaff Cathedral or the Archbishop prove to be true, that will show that not only does she have complete brassneck nerve but that she's also shameless;
6 despite this, we must, in the true spirit of our Faith, show forgiveness, compassion and understanding towards EVRYONE involved in the sad episode.
Instead of all this venom, and comments from malcontents, wouldn't it be good to have some charitable, supportive comments for the new dean, and expressions of goodwill towards him in a challenging post? As one who worships at the cathedral week in week out, he certainly has that from me, and from many others too, even though they and I recognise the difficulties of the past eighteen months or so. He is certainly showing himself to be his own man and no puppet of anyone.
As a Luddite, I'm afraid I can't seem to be able to give myself a name on here, so, as much as I don't like anonymous posts, I think this will, again, appear as anonymous. Apologies, but I'm just a simple person in the pew at the cathedral with no axe to grind for or against any particular person or group, and I try to follow the teaching of the Gospel.
Again I have published one anonymous comment on this thread in the interests of fair play since it presents the other side of the coin but please see "Introduction" in the right hand column . It is not too difficult to make up a pen name so no more on this thread please. If you want to share your opinion please follow the rules.
DeleteWell, Anonymous Luddite- I and many find these posts very helpful in that they provide me with some reassurance that it is not I who has lost the plot ! Clearly there are many who can see the Church in Wales disintegrating and bankrupting itself.
DeleteIt's a choice between laughing and crying,as they say.
The Archbishop is a 'control freak'.
There is nothing whatsoever which is democratic in respect of the Governing Body. Not that I think that democratic decisions affecting the faith and doctrine of the Church is the way to go.
As I have pointed out several times on various blog entries, we recite in the creed that " we believe in ONE Holy Catholic Church". It therefore follows that the C in W should not go' out on a limb' changing the Faith and the tradition of the One Church. The Church in Wales is virtually unrecognisable as part of the Catholic Church to which it claims to belong.
You have to accept Luddite ,that the Archbishop is aspiring to build his own Protestant Church of (not in)Wales.
I for one,cannot water down my faith,my understanding and my belief to satisfy the personal ambition and kudos of Archbishop Barry.
The latest published Cathedral accounts seem to shed some light on why Janet Henderson only lasted a total of 54 days in the post.
DeleteRemember, ++Barry has never provided any official explanation for her resignation and neither has she. That single fact may indicate on-going legal proceedings.
http://www.pcc.org.uk/news/index.html?article=ODg3Ng
PRESS COMPLAINTS COMMISSION
COMPLAINANT NAME:
Resolved - Reverend Janet Henderson v Wales Online
CLAUSES NOTED: 1, 2, 12
PUBLICATION: Wales Online
COMPLAINT:
Reverend Janet Henderson complained to the Press Complaints Commission that the newspaper had published inaccurate information in breach of Clause 1 (Accuracy) of the Editors' Code of Practice. She was further concerned that the newspaper had not afforded her the opportunity to respond to inaccurate allegations and discriminated against her on the grounds of her gender in breach of Clause 2 (Opportunity to reply) and Clause 12 (Discrimination). The complainant said that the newspaper had published inaccurate claims made by an anonymous source that she had resigned as Dean of Llandaff Cathedral due to difficulties she faced due to her gender and also that her resignation was connected to a dispute with the choir. She was further concerned that the newspaper had not put the allegations to her prior to publication.
RESOLUTION:
The newspaper denied that it had breached the Code, and said that the reporter had been told by the Archbishop of Wales' press office that the complainant did not wish to speak to the media. The complaint was resolved when the PCC negotiated the publication of the following statement as a footnote to the article:
In March 2014, Dean Henderson provided us with the following statement: "My resignation had nothing at all to do with either opposition to me as a woman or an alleged row with members of Llandaff cathedral choir. I received a warm welcome from the cathedral congregations and the community of Llandaff. The only objections to my gender of which I was aware were in the anonymous comments reported in the South Wales press and by one anonymous blogger. I received a letter from members of the then choir stating that there was no dispute between us. All members of the choir had my full support."
DATE PUBLISHED: 04/04/2014
Here's the original story.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/songs-praise-pay-row-over-3002626
The recently appointed Dean of Llandaff, Janet Henderson, said: “Hosting Songs Of Praise is an honour and a privilege for Llandaff Cathedral as it allows us to share our worship with millions of viewers across the UK and beyond. “It’s a low budget programme and we are not taking part in order to profit financially,” she added. “At present, the form of the programme and the musical items are still being considered and no final decision has been taken about which musicians will be taking part.”
You might ask yourselves, when Janet Henderson had made it clear that she did not wish to 'speak to the media', how and why was a press statement released from the Archbishop's press office in her name on April 24th and published on April 25th?
The PCC ruling clearly upholds Janet Henderson's complaint that she did not make that statement. It suggests that it was submitted without her knowledge by the Archbishop of Wales' press officer (Anna Morrell) who either simply made it up or was ordered to issue the statement in Janet Henderson's name without her knowledge.
Why have you dragged the new (latest new) Dean into this?
DeleteHave you forgotten that he was the Archbishop's Chaplain, confidante and part of his inner Sanctum throughout the Janet Henderson debacle and the subsequent cover up?
Perhaps you haven't noticed ++His Darkness' golf caddy wandering around the Cathedral with a large A4 ringbinder marked 'Janet Henderson' under his arm?
And here's the link to the amended resignation article that first appeared on May 9th last year.
Deletehttp://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dean-of-llandaff-cathedral-quits-3567892
The additional text that now appears at the foot of the online article is as per the PCC resolution statement.
In March 2014, Dean Henderson provided us with the following statement:
"My resignation had nothing at all to do with either opposition to me as a woman or an alleged row with members of Llandaff cathedral choir. I received a warm welcome from the cathedral congregations and the community of Llandaff.
"The only objections to my gender of which I was aware were in the anonymous comments reported in the South Wales press and by one anonymous blogger. I received a letter from members of the then choir stating that there was no dispute between us.
"All members of the choir had my full support."
So now the good people of Llandaff it has been confirmed in writing by the PCC, Wales Online and Janet Henderson herself in a joint statement that her resignation had nothing to do with alleged anti-woman sentiment in the Chapter or anywhere else and nothing to do with the Cathedral Choir row over professional fees for Songs of Praise recordings.
What possibilities does that leave?
Going back to 'anonymous Luddite' who says that Janet Henderson should not have applied for the post of Dean,well I thought that one did not 'apply' for a Dean's post ,but that it is a personal appointment made by the Bishop of Llandaff? Can someone clarify this please?
DeleteAs I understand matters, one does not simply 'apply' for such a post in Llandaff, but one might be 'invited' to apply. His ++Darkness appointed John Lewis and Janet Henderson without reference to the Llandaff pew sitters.
DeleteOne also wonders if the Archbishop's press secretary is considering that His ++Darkness might have made her position as untenable as that of Janet Henderson and if so, whether April 25 will be Groundhog Day this year for another resignation?
Llandaff Pewster seems to have hit the bullseye. One hears that the Janet Henderson 'folder' has been moved (for safe keeping you understand) to Llys Esgob and a game of Cluedo has been initiated to discover who has seen the folder under the Capon's arm.
DeleteOne hopes that Janet Henderson has the sense to realise that she has the right to see everything in 'her' folder and that, if His ++Darkness will not co-operate with a data access request from her, she can refer the matter to the Information Commissioner.
Thanks for your help. Do you mean I can put my pseudonym at the end of my comment - like a signature at the end - but anonymous will appear before the date of the comment? If that's the case, it's easy, even for a Luddite like me! If so, I'll sign off with the name Llandaff for ever.
ReplyDeleteLlandaff for ever.
Yes, that's fine thanks you Llandaff for ever.
DeleteCan anyone explain the reasons for the salaries bill and number of employees recorded in the accounts heading in different directions and how the 2012 totals can be different from one set of published accounts to the next?
ReplyDelete2011, 26 employees, £215,382
2012, 27 employees, £217,326 (recorded in the 2012 report and accounts)
2012, 27 employees, £199,881 (recorded in the 2013 report and accounts)
2013, 19 employees, £221,831.
What is the explanation for the difference of £17,445 and where has it gone?
If the Cathedral Choir redundancies (5) and assistant organist (1) happened at the end of December 2013 (and I suppose will appear as a reduction of 6 employees in next year's accounts), which 8 employees disappeared between 2012 and 2013?
No-one has offered any answers to my questions above.
DeleteIs there anyone who can explain why this years Cathedral accounts have not been qualified by the auditors please?
2011 deficit was £76,620
2012 deficit was £71,673 with a projected deficit of £81,000 for 2013.
2013 deficit was £94,567 with an unidentified 'anticipated' deficit for 2014 'reduced by over £60,000'
Yet under paragraph 4 of last years minutes Peggy Jackson is recorded highlighting 'that although concern had been raised by the auditors, they were reassured that efforts were being made to address the annual deficit and the accounts were not being qualified'.
Peggy the chartered accountant and acting Dean for 8 months of last year, is now shown to have missed the budget deficit of £81k by £13.5k (by my arithmetic a margin of error of some 17%) and an actual increase over the previous year of £22,894 (some 32%).
Why is an actual figure for next year's anticipated deficit not published?
How are the books going to be balanced next year when communicant numbers (and therefore I assume giving) are plummeting?
March 2013, 2392 communicants averaging 478 per week.
March 2014, 1921 communicants averaging 384 per week.
A drop of some 20% in a single year.
Can someone please explain?
Simple Simon : Go back to the "Assisted killing of the Church in Wales -part 3 ",April 6th, and in the last paragraph there is a link (Protestant backwater) to a GB discussion of the "Churches Uniting in Wales".
DeleteI am one of those members of the PCC whose eyes glazed over when accounts were discussed.
However, the plan ,via 'The Gathering' is ,it seems , to join up with the Non-Conformist Churches and to have ecumenical Bishops. Then the accounts will all be absorbed and assimilated into one pot maybe ,and the Church in Wales may look solvent all of a sudden?
Does that seem any sort of possibility ?
Simple Soul, it seems that anything is possible in the imaginary world of His ++Darkness.
DeleteIf they're wise, the non-conformist churches would carry out all due diligence tests on the financial record keeping and contents of all Church in Wales accounts and then run for the hills.
Would you buy a used car from ++Bazza?
If you're on the Llandaff PCC perhaps you could arrange for my questions to be put to Tuesday's Easter Vestry meeting and have the answers published?
I'm sure there's also a great deal of interest in how the resignation dates of '25/4/13' and '25th April 2013' appearing in the annual report in different places. These are obviously not typographical errors.
Surely the process would be: someone drafted the annual report and accounts (presumably Peggy the chartered accountant, since she was nominally in charge of the day to day running of the Cathedral for most of last year), that the draft accounts went before a Chapter meeting for dissection, discussion and final approval, typed up in the Cathedral office by the administration assistant, signed by ++Bazza's glove puppet, photocopied by the administration assistant and then distributed.
Does the Archbishop's spokeswoman (Anna Morrell?) really think that the rest of us are so stupid as to swallow the party line that 'the date of Dean Henderson's resignation in the report appeared to be a mistake. It is understood she was on annual leave at the time.'?
Would anyone care to report on what occurred at the Llandaff Easter Vestry meeting?
DeleteDid anyone put the questions posed by Simple Simon, or any other questions for that matter?
If so, what answers were provided?
Or was it a case of the pew-sitters not daring to challenge the official line?
If the Easter offering has been abolished why are certain parishes canvassing for contributions? Was it selective abolition?
ReplyDeleteAs I understand it, only selective to Llandaff Cathedral. There were plenty of parishes (some running at a significant loss) whose vicars received an Easter offering last April. Surely any Easter 'gift' calculated on an 'agreed formula' should be based on any annual surplus, not annual 'giving'?
DeleteAn 'agreed formula' based on 'giving' could easily result in rewarding failure rather than success but would guarantee that any annual deficit would be increased rather than reduced as in Llandaff under John Lewis.
After all, a parish could have annual 'giving' of £100,000 but annual expenditure of £200,000.
If, as suggested elsewhere on this blog, the well-to-do parish of All Saints Penarth is running an annual deficit of £20k, did ++Barry step in there and prevent an Easter 'gift' going to Peter Cox?
I am rather reminded of those words by St John Chrysostom:
Delete"Mules bear fortunes and Christ dies of hunger at your gate."
Rural Pewster, there are some in the Llandaff Cathedral chapter who received Easter 'gifts' from their Parishes in 2013 and 2014.
DeleteThe Archbishop's spokeswoman's statement to the Western Mail is simply wrong.
The question is this. Is she peddling ++Bazza's bullshit deliberately or has she been misled?
The stink of of L'eau de ++Bazza has crossed the Atlantic and has reached Shohola PA.
ReplyDeleteHere's what VirtueOnline, "The Voice For Global Orthodox Anglicanism", has to say.
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=18850#.U1paglVdXDU
Never mind that the Anglican Church in Wales is on a steep numerical decline and could tumble over one of its many cliffs, the Archbishop of Wales, Barry Morgan faced some embarrassing questions this week.
"Former Llandaff Cathedral choir members questioned a £4,000 ($6,000) payment to former Dean John Lewis,” says a report in WalesOnline. He is Barry's old mate who was paid £4,390 ($6,585) as an “Easter gift” despite the Cathedral's desperate financial position which resulted in "the slimming down of the Cathedral Choir in order to save nearly £50,000 ($75,000) which would significantly cut down the anticipated deficit of £81,000" ($121,500). Dean Henderson left with nothing other than "an apparent discrepancy in diocesan documents"!
Another WalesOnline report says that "Wales is no longer a nation of churchgoers but faith is alive"! Between 2011 and 2012, the number of adults attending Church in Wales Sunday services fell by 5%, from 33,783 to 32,171. Easter attendance dropped by 8% from 60,924 to 56,063. Research by Tear Fund in 2007 showed Wales had the lowest level of regular church attendance in the UK at 12%, behind England (14%), Scotland (18%), London (22%) and Northern Ireland (45%). The 2001 census showed 71.9% of the Welsh population were self-described Christians but this fell to just 57.6% by the time of the 2011 survey.
The Archbishop's response? “It’s interesting, lots of people who are not regular worshippers claim to be Christian and they want that label for themselves. It’s not something people put on them.”
Regardless of the low ranking of the Church in Wales in attendance figures, the Archbishop likes to give the impression that he is leading world opinion. Concluding his Presidential Address to the Governing Body of the Church in Wales, he said of blessing same-sex unions: "Much as some people may want to do so, the rule is the same as was the case over the re-marriage of divorced people – we need to wait for the Church, as a whole, to decide the matter – and we are beginning that process at this GB".
A law unto himself, there was no "waiting for the Church as a whole" to decide the question of the ordination of women. He did his own thing. This process is continuing at the Governing Body. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" sounds pretty unequivocal so why is Assisted Dying being discussed? The official position of the Church is that marriage is between one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others, but the Governing Body is being dragged through the same process that was used to see women ordained to the priesthood, so that it appears unremarkable despite being contrary to the faith of the Church as a whole, noted one blogger.
2 Timothy 4:1-5 sums up the situation perfectly:
Delete'In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I solemnly urge you: proclaim the message; be persistent whether the time is favourable or unfavourable; convince, rebuke, and encourage, with the utmost patience in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander away to myths. As for you, always be sober, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, carry out your ministry fully.'
Perhaps, some might wish to consider the above exhortation, especially in relation to the Matthean warning: 'Even now the axe is lying at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.'
Come clean, Dr Morgan, and declare your expenses of office as Archbishop of Wales and Bishop of Llandaff.
ReplyDeleteHis ++Darkness come clean?
DeleteThis is the bullying arrogant control freak Archbishop of Wales you're talking about.
The answer is simple.
DeleteLet every Parish in Wales, but particularly the Llandaff Diocese, publish in the Western Mail the value of whatever Easter offering or 'gift' was given to their Vicar at Easter 2013 and Easter 2014.
Either no 'gifts' have been given or the Archbishop's spokeswoman (presumably Anna Morell?) and/or ++Bazza is seeking to deceive.
Which is it?
Why limit coming clean to just ++Bazza? Let every Vicar come clean.
Why aren't all Parish accounts in the public domain as a matter of course?
Readers may be interested to read about Parish Accounting in the Church in Wales here
Deletehttp://www.churchinwales.org.uk/structure/representative-body/finance/parish-accounting/
Archbishop Barry has been on the back of us Bankers about our well-earned bonuses, so let’s have some reciprocal disclosure. I want to see a break down of every Easter bonus paid to every cleric in the Church in Wales. It is a scandal that the clergy are taking untaxed back handers from the hard up laity. How about those wedding and funeral fees, are they declared taxable income?
DeleteThe Western Mail / Wales on Sunday need to dig a bit deeper here.
DeleteNONE of the Bench declare their expenses of office?
DeleteFollowing Ancient Britons suggestion above, I found the following stipulations.
Delete1. Parish Accounting
a.Reporting and other financial requirements of the Church in Wales
All Parochial Church Councils (PCCs) are required to prepare and annual
report and accounts, which must:
i.comply with the Church in Wales Constitution and the Accounting
regulations set out within the Constitution;
ii.be retained along with all of the accounting records for 6 years;
iii.be available for inspection by the Archdeacons;
iv.be available to the public on request.
I would like to see copies of all Llandaff Diocese Parish accounts for the last six years.
Where amd to whom should I direct my request?
What a sad Church, for which the responsibility can only be at the feet of the Archbishop. He seems quite unaware of his own incompetence.
ReplyDeleteAs the previous anonymous commentator on this thread added the identity 'Llandaff forever' I am publishing this anonymous comment because it makes a very valid point but I would be grateful if additional commentators would note the remarks under 'Introduction' at the top of the right hand column, ie, no 'Anonymous' comments so that contributors can be separately identified by their own pseudonym. Thanks.
DeleteIf the archbishop had any sense of honour he would resign now and let someone attempt to salvage the train crash that is the Church in Wales. Since honour, decency and integrity are hardly the watchwords of his style of management, I don’t hold out much hope of him going. If the other bishops of the Bench had any backbone and sense of duty one would have thought that they would have had a quiet, but forceful, word with the archbishop and demanded his resignation. But that is not going to happen because they are week, ineffectual and dance to the archbishop’s tune. There is not one of them who is capable of showing any independent or courageous leadership. Pathetic poodles one and all!
DeleteI amused myself when I first read your entry 1549, when my brain came up with "If the Archbishop had any sense of humour...."!
DeleteAt the recent Governing Body this week,and with regard to the discussion about a Code of Practice for women Bishops in the Church in Wales,the following procedural note appeared:
ReplyDelete"The Bishops will be present at the discussion, but will not participate. Members are encouraged to share their views about what provision should be made in the Code of Practice, but not to return to general principles about women bishops made during the original debate in September last year. Standing Orders will remain in place, and so the usual time limits will apply and members may not speak more than once."
The hands, or rather the tongues, are tied of those who cannot in conscience accept women as Bishops (or indeed women as priests). Governing Body members may state what provision should be made,but there cannot be any force in the point being made because members cannot qualify or support their suggestion by reiterating the error to tradition by appointing women to Holy Orders.
It seems to me that the discussion will have been sterile and that delegates will only have been allowed to ask for a male Bishop as overseer, and discussion about a 'traditional' male Bishop will not be permitted - as I see it.
Anybody there at the GB?
I was following the 'discussion' on twitter, not being able to be at Governing Body myself. As one of the people who proposed the amendment giving us this 'code of practice', the Archdeacon of Llandaff said "anyone confirmed into the Church in Wales after last September's decision should not receive conscience provision." What sort of equality is that? It is the so called inclusive church so cheered last September. It continues to confirm that the only option will be to leave the Church in Wales. I hope the Bench will have more sense than to put such things into the code.
ReplyDeleteSo we have the wife of the Principal of the failed and useless St Michael’s College saying that nobody should be accept for ordination if they are opposed to women’s ministry, and the Archdeacon of Llandaff stating that new traditionalist members of the Church in Wales should not receive any pastoral provision. Now we all know where we stand. It is about time that the Bench and their senior management teams come clean and clearly state that they see no long-term future for traditionalist Anglicans in Wales. Don’t do it by deceit, coded messages and half-truths, say it honestly. However, if that is not the case, then the Bench one and all needs to sort this mess out now.
DeleteN.B. A quick look at the CinW membership figures does suggest that the number of ‘new members’ barely fills one pew.
All parish accounts are in the public domain. Or at least they should be and appear in the parish report each year. I would be very surprised if there are many priests who take the gift of the 'Easter offering' but if they do they should be ashamed of themselves. ANONYMOUS FRED.
ReplyDeleteThe history behind the Easter offering is that the collection monies taken on Easter Sunday were 'offered' to the Vicar of the Parish as a means of topping up their otherwise pittance of a salary. Yes, they had a house in which to live gratis, but they still had to clothe and feed their families. Don't forget that many vicars died in office and were carried out of their Parish in a box. Those few who reached retirement age were evicted by the ever so grateful church to make way for the new vicar. Rarely did they have the money to buy a home of their own and that is something that has only become common in the clergy in the last 30 to 40 years, usually for those whose wife worked part or full time in a well paid job as a doctor or teacher.
DeleteThe money from the Easter plate was openly declared to be going to the Vicar an an 'offering' and those vicars who worked hard and ran a successful Parish would usually (some Parishes were very poor even with a hard working vicar and successful attendances at Sunday School, Choir, services, confirmation classes etc) get a reasonable lump sum. Vicars who were lazy, disliked, unpopular and so on did not do so well. One wonders if that was the reason for the introduction of 'an agreed formula' calculated as a 'percentage of the giving throughout the year' in Llandaff? It is well known and widespread that many regulars in Llandaff thought John Lewis was idle and he certainly made himself extremely unpopular with all too regularly. One imagines that the old method of a collection plate Easter offering would have yielded a very small annual 'gift' for him indeed.
None of the Llandaff pew-sitters ever had a chance to demonstrate their approval, or otherwise, of Janet Henderson as bully boy ++Bazza imposed his decision to stop both Easter 'gifts' and expenses in Llandaff Cathedral after his pal Bonaparte had retired.
I have no difficulty with hard working Vicars running a successful Parish that is paying its way (without having to selling off the family silver to hide large annual deficits) and running at a surplus is provided with an Easter offering that is open and clearly identified as such to those who are funding it. Indeed, I feel it should be welcomed and encouraged as there as so few incentives on offer to attract good hard working vicars to the Church in Wales.
His ++Darkness prefers to keep things under wraps as far as possible but to pontificate on bankers bonuses. Of one thing I am certain, that is that ++Bazza's expenses will be paid in full by the RB and no expense spared. He's tighter than a duck's backside with his own money but profligate with everyone else's.
All Parish accounts should be in the public domain and published each year on their websites.
Items listed in such accounts should not be allowed to appear under the heading 'Other' but every penny clearly accounted for and identified.
I recognise your description of events Llandaff Pewster.
DeleteOur Vicar was questioned one year by an obnoxious individual trying to stir things up.
The individual challenged our Vicar over the Easter offering and demanded to know by what right the Vicar claimed an Easter offering rather then the money be used for the Church.
Quick as a flash, our old Vicar replied that at the end of the service he would fling the entire contents of the collection plate into the air.
What God wanted he would keep to put to his use and what came down God wanted the Vicar to have.
In 2013 at Llandaff Cathedral, His ++Darkness denied Janet Henderson even the opportunity to let God decide which portion of the Easter offering he would keep. No wonder she is suing him and good luck to her.
Very many parishes continue the age old tradition of giving the Easter offering to the parish priest. It is fully taxable, as are marriage, funeral and other fees. And unlike most of us, priests, ministers, etc, including bishops, are ALL obliged to complete a tax return declaring their income each year, even though they are not self employed and pay tax under PAYE. The extract below from HMRC guidance sets this out. The website address is:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/need-tax-return.htm#1
HMRC say clearly that the following HAVE to complete an annual tax return::
You're a company director, minister, Lloyd's name or member
You must complete a return if you're any of the following:
•a company director (unless you're a director of a non-profit organisation, for example a charity, and don't receive any payments or benefits)
•a minister of religion (any faith)
•a name or member of Lloyd's
There is so much unpleasant, uncharitable, indeed, Unchristian vitriol in many of the comments here that I'll no longer contribute or even look at this site any more. Yes, there are things wrong with the Church in Wales, yes, Barry has made some dreadful decisions, and may well continue to make them, but we are a Christian church, and as such, should have hope for the future and certainly show tolerance and forgiveness. Before anyone posts a comment that Barry doesn't show tolerance, which would itself be a very heavily laden personal judgement, I would merely say that two wrongs do not make a right.
Signing off with my final comment and visit to this site. Thanks to the blogmaster for trying to get a balance.
Llandaff for ever, aka Anonymous Luddite.
Thank you for you comment 'Llandaff for ever'. If by chance you visit this blog again I hope you will reconsider your decision. It is important in any debate to hear both sides otherwise there is a temptation to egg each other on thus weakening the argument.
DeleteIn defence I would ask you to consider the sense of betrayal felt by many so called 'traditionalists' who are constantly encouraged to support changes in a Church in which they no longer feel wanted and have to pay for the privilege. Many of these changes have been introduced by newcomers to Anglicanism who seem more comfortable with political correctness than the historic faith of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
For example, I don't know which startled me most, Elliott King's report (above), " As one of the people who proposed the amendment giving us this 'code of practice', the Archdeacon of Llandaff said "anyone confirmed into the Church in Wales after last September's decision should not receive conscience provision" or the Archbishop of Wales in his Presidential address when he claimed that Church doctrine evolves to meet the demands of culture. Perhaps more worrying is the fact the the Archbishop's remark seems to have gone unnoticed, a sad comment on the state of the Church in Wales under her current leadership.
I agree that as a Christian Church we show tolerance and forgiveness. That doesn't mean however, that its governing structures and people should be free from scrutiny and criticism. After all we are a church of synodical governance. I think many of us, including myself, struggle to see the tolerance and Christian attitude in the Archdeacon's and other comments made.
Delete"Church doctrine evolves to meet the demands of culture" says the Archbishop.
ReplyDeleteThe Church in Wales also professes to be part of the One Holy Catholic Church.
So this means that the demands of wider society are dictating the doctrine of the Church? Does it?
It also means that ++ Barry is indicating that he wishes to be independent of other Anglican communions ,let alone declaring UDI from the Holy Catholic Church. Do they still say the Creed in Llandaff Cathedral?
In response to' Llandaff for ever' - the Anglo-catholic wing of the Church in Wales have shown 'tolerance and forgiveness' for far too long. It is ,of course, a good thing to forgive others' errors, but it is not a good ,or a compassionate or even Christian act to support a leader who is persisting in his path of destruction of the Faith,doctrine and tradition of the One a Holy Catholic Church.
Here, here, Simple soul! Well written!!
DeleteHis ++Darkness wants to lead those of us brought up with the difficult 'straight and narrow' route to everlasting salvation and away from that simple truth. Rather, to suit his views and egocentric personality, he seeks to entice everyone with the easy crooked and wide route to eternal damnation. I can hear him now, 'Come on in, the water's fine!'
DeleteIf Darth Insidious is going to heaven I'd rather be in Hell.
The problem is that for traditionalists like me, the new rite at the 11am tells me I'm already there.
No proper liturgy, no choir, rarely any worthwhile preaching? It must be 11am at Llandaff Cathedral
Does the 'disestablished' Church in Wales need another Archbishop? No, given the disastrous reign of Pope Morgan! I believe we desperately require a Bishop-President / Primus, 'elected' for no more than a 2 x 3 year term of office. We can avoid further disaster in the C in W.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteIt will be a very small postcard, probably just big enough for the stamp and your address Llandaff Pelican.
DeleteHave you all noticed that since the revelation of Janet Henderson's Press Complaints Commission resolution statement becoming significantly more public by being posted on this blog early on 24th April, thanks to the vigilance of Episkopos, that since that time there have been no new 'News' announcements on the RB website attributable to Anna Morrell?
DeleteIf she was in on ++Bazza's schemes to deceive all and sundry, her complicity is revealed, her position is untenable and she should resign.
If she was unaware of ++Bazza's deceit and has only now become aware of him implicating her in his scheming, her position is still untenable, she needs to protect her own integrity as a journalist and she should resign.
The signs suggest that she might have already gone.
A Farewell to Welsh Anglicanism: Part 1 – The Rejection of Scripture
ReplyDeleteIt is with enormous sadness that I observed the most recent Presidential Address capitulate in its entirety to transient cultural norms. The most striking aspect of this speech was its dilution, abandonment, and reinterpretation of scripture to the point of rendering it at best useless, and at worst of no significance to the Church. The observations made were premised upon an uncritical application of a secular agenda. There appears to be the mistaken assertion that by abandoning distinctive Christian doctrines the Church will somehow become more acceptable to contemporary Welsh Culture. It is interesting to observe that the speech attempts to appropriate the work of Richard Niebuhr to justify a liberal argument. However, Niebuhr was uncomfortable with a liberal social gospel intimating that its message offers little more than: “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross” (Niebuhr, 1937). Perhaps, the issue of greatest concern is the rejection of the Examination at Ordination, which charges the candidate: “Do you believe that the Holy Scriptures contain all things necessary to eternal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ?’ Similarly, the Examination continues: “Will you be a diligent minister of the Word of God, proclaiming the Gospel and teaching the Christian Faith?” Furthermore, the Charge made to a Bishop includes: “You are to be the centre of unity, a teacher of the Faith, and a guardian of discipline in the Church.” With the approach delivered at Governing Body, one is left asking the legitimate question: ‘What constitutes teaching the faith, and what constitutes Church Discipline?’ With the wholesale rejection and dilution of Scriptures, we are now into the territory of ‘Cheap Grace.’ The Church in Wales runs the risk of embracing a cheap grace that is “represented as the Church’s inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits…Cheap grace therefore amounts to a denial of the living Word of God, in fact, a denial of the Incarnation of the Word of God” (Bonhoeffer, 1959, p.3).
For those who continue to doubt that there is a legal dispute going on between Janet Henderson and Darth ++Insidious, you may wish to reconsider. The High Street grapevine indicates during the week following the Press Complaints Commission resolution published Friday 4th April, Gerard Elias QC is believed to have had a meeting with Janet in London. One does not imagine it was merely a social chat and the conjecture is that the PCC resolution provided Janet with significant ammunition for a discrimination/misrepresentation lawsuit case against ++Bazza.
ReplyDeleteThe smart money is on His ++Darkness having been advised that Janet has got him over a barrel with a poker heated and ready, so discussions concern only how much compensation he'll have to pay her. If Janet had intended to work until 70 that could be as much as 15 years Dean's salary (plus expenses and Easter 'gifts'?) plus a consideration for her prospects of becoming a Bishop at some point. Call it a cool £500,000.
Of course, His ++Darkness would be desperate to include a gagging clause as part of any settlement, but let's hope Janet insists on a public apology and explanation from bully boy ++Bazza.
That's very interesting and ties in with the story that Janet Henderson had been in touch with Charles the senior solicitor in 39 Cathedral Road asking for information from him concerning the constitution of the Church in Wales and how to go about launching a formal complaint against His Darkness.
DeleteI assume that the correct means of seeking compensation for any such mistreatment would be to follow all internal complaint procedures with your employer to a conclusion (unsatisfactory) before seeking redress externally through a legal or mediation process.
That might explain why the Janet Henderson story continues to dog the shadow spread by His Darkness.
Should this have been the case, a robust and fair complaints procedure would prevent ++Bazza dealing with a complaint about himself. Surely the task of carrying out an investigation into complaints made by Janet Henderson would have fallen to the next senior Bishop which in turn would mean that knowledge of the real reason(s) for Janet's resignation is more widespread than ++Bazza would like and the cover up proportionately bigger.
The gangrene of ++Bazza's reign has spread to at least one other limb and urgent amputation required to save the rest.
Is there a surgeon in the house?
'how much compensation he'll have to pay her'.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't that read 'how much we will have to pay her.'
Observer, you're right but if His ++Darkness has(had) any chance of keeping a lid on this particular can of worms, he probably have to stump up from his Archbishop's discretionary fund, you know the one, the one that is not audited or overseen and that is fed by the collections he confiscates from all the ordination and confirmation services he does.
DeleteWould that be the same unaudited discretionary fund with which His ++Darkness is rumoured recently to have paid out circa £50k to get one of his clerics of out a little financial difficulty?
DeleteIncidentally, it is hard to know what to make of Anna Morrell's statement that 'the Easter offering was abolished in the Diocese of Llandaff in 2012.'
ReplyDeleteThe issue has never been raised at a Diocesan conference, and cannot be decided by archiepiscopal fiat. The Church in Wales is considering the issue of fees (including Easter offerings) at present; the Diocese of Llandaff cannot jump the gun on this. Strange though that 'The Diocese of Llandaff' allegedly abolished the Easter offering just after the departure of John Lewis as Dean.
The Diocese of Llandaff could not, did not and has not abolished the Easter offering.
DeleteThe Archbishop's spokeswoman speaks with forked tongue, again.
Easter Offerings: Canonical Regulation
ReplyDeleteDoe (2002, p. 335) asserted that: "The Incumbent has a right to Easter Offerings." This assertion was supported by his reference to legal precedent: Cooper v Blakiston [1907] and thew House of Lords [1909].
This is further supported by any Diocesan Decree to form a Rectorial Benefice within a Diocese which must state "the rights of the Rector and Vicar or Vicars with regard to Easter Offerings and surplice and other fees" (Doe, 2002, p.59).
I would be surprised if the rulings made by the Court of Appeal [1907] and the House of Lords [1909] could be unilaterally overturned by a Diocese.
Please note that I am not offering an argument for or against Incumbents receiving the Easter Offering. I merely offer a legal insight into the current position.
Reference
Doe, N. (2002). "The Law of the Church in Wales." Cardiff: University of Wales Press
Thank you for this reference, mpst helpful and enlightening.
DeleteI found a more general description at http://orca.cf.ac.uk/2918/
The law of the Church in Wales
Doe, Christopher Norman 2002. The law of the Church in Wales. Cardiff: University of Wales Press.
Like other major social institutions, the Church in Wales is regulated by a complicated body of rules that are the product of continuous historical development, theological reflection and practical action. In this book, Norman Doe provides the first comprehensive statement of the modern law of the Church in Wales and the law of the State applicable to the church. The Law of the Church in Wales sets out the legal structures of the Church in Wales, and how these operate within the context of both the law of the State and the laws of other churches in the worldwide Anglican Communion. It describes how the church organises its internal government, the rights and duties of its clergy and lay people, its public worship, its rites (such as baptism and marriage), its relations with other Christian churches, and its property and finances. The Law of the Church in Wales is an accessible and practical guide to the legal rules, rights and duties which have an impact on so many aspects of the church's life and role in society. It will be an essential text for clergy and lay officers of the Church in Wales, and for anyone interested in ecclesiastical law in Wales.
Item Type: Book
Book Type: Authored Book
Date Type: Publication
Status: Published
Schools: Law
Subjects: B Philosophy. Psychology. Religion > BR Christianity
B Philosophy. Psychology. Religion > BX Christian Denominations
K Law > K Law (General)
K Law > KD England and Wales
ISBN: 9780708317488
Last Modified: 15 Nov 2013 09:21
URI: http://orca.cf.ac.uk/id/eprint/2918
I hope Janet Henderson has a copy or that at least she is reading this blog and will follow the breadcrumbs scattered here.
Or alternatively you could get your wardens to write beginning letters to the parishioners for the Vicar's Easter Offering as happens in one particular seaside parish in Llandaff Diocese!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteCome on Private Eye, get to work on this lot! Remember how Bishop Hugh Montefiore was nick named Monty Fiasco? What fun they would have with His Darkness! Each commentator should consider copying their entry to the editor of Private Eye, here is the E-mail address strobes@private-eye.co.uk
ReplyDeleteThe pew-sitters, as the major funders of the Church in Wales, should demand to see an audited breakdown of how much His Darkness has cost the Church in Wales in legal fees and settlement monies during his time as both Bishop of Bangor and Archbishop of Wales. It is very difficult to respond to requests to increase giving if one knows that the man at the top is squandering our hard earned cash by his dysfunctional management style. All pew-sitters should seriously consider holding back their giving until this issue is addressed. Furthermore, perhaps it is time that His Darkness and his poodles on the Bench took out some form of professional indemnity insurance to cover their malpractice whilst in office? I’ve even got a name for it, the Prelates’ Insurance Scheme – after all they spend most of their time taking the PIS.
ReplyDeleteA prerequisite for Professional Indemnity Insurance cover would surely be professional behaviour and conduct?
DeleteI, for one, am entirely happy that Janet Henderson's alleged legal action against ++Darth Insidious personally should succeed in taking a very very large chunk of his pension pot and personal (and, according to rumours of an ever expanding property portfolio, not inconsiderable) wealth.
There are only three things bully boy ++Bazza fears; legal disputes, bad PR and scandals over money.
He had his hands full all last year with the Employment Tribunal brought by long serving and long suffering members of the Cathedral Choir and to make it go away he had to order Peggy to disband the 130 year tradition of the Cathedral Choir.
Now he's rumoured (and readers, notice, there have been no further denials from his mouthpiece Mrs Morrell) to be facing a big fight with Janet and relying on his local Queen's Counsel to cut a deal for him in the smoke.
Here's hoping Janet takes him to the cleaners.
Janet Henderson MUST pursue this one because if she doesn't do it, with a water-tight case, Byzantine Barry will do it again and again to others who are less robust and more inclined to buckle under his ruthless charm-cum-bullying. A deal behind closed doors will only fuel the malaise which Morgan has created during his time in office, and which has fuelled a fundamental lack of trust which goes right to the top. Byzantine Barry's tactic in the past has been to refuse to speak to the media when things are going badly for him. Because of the PCC decision and Janet Henderson's determination, he will not be able to do this. Finally, the Morgan-Morrell conspiracy will be out in the open. Has anyone brought all this to Martin Shipton's attention at the Western Mail - or has Morrell got a gagging order on him as well?
DeleteConcerning the attention of Martin Shipton, perhaps we, as a group, could provide him with the basic outline for a story, for example, a list of the obviously deceitful press statements issued by the Morgan-Morrell duo.
DeleteLet me provide the first example.
25th April 2013, Western Mail.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/songs-praise-pay-row-over-3002626
The recently appointed Dean of Llandaff, Janet Henderson, said: “Hosting Songs of Praise is an honour and a privilege for Llandaff Cathedral as it allows us to share our worship with millions of viewers across the UK and beyond. It’s a low budget programme and we are not taking part in order to profit financially,” she added. At present, the form of the programme and the musical items are still being considered and no final decision has been taken about which musicians will be taking part.”
Quite apart from it now being understood that this statement was not released by Janet Henderson, it is full of deceit.
It was certainly not a low budget production.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/news/songs-of-praise-commissioning-opportunity.shtml
"The Programme Fee per episode is £60,000 made up as follows: BBC Contribution: £58,000 and BBC Worldwide investment: £2,000."
Any TV insider would tell you that the average for an episode of a soap opera is £40k, so a budget of £60k is a relatively high budget program.
Then there is the claim that "we are not taking part in order to profit financially".
The usual hire fee for the Cathedral was £1,000 a day (overheads being a few hours overtime for the vergers and electricity for the lighting system- central heating would not have been needed in May) but the Cathedral is understood to have charged Avanti £7,000 for the 3 days hire of the building to make the recording (more then double the usual daily hire charge).
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/398777/Woman-Dean-quits-in-unholy-row-over-Songs-Of-Praise-fee.
No denial ever issued by the Cathedral, ++Bazza or Morrell.
The final deceit was the claim "At present, the form of the programme and the musical items are still being considered and no final decision has been taken about which musicians will be taking part.”
Here's the evidence that contradicts the statement.
(Note the first line that appears under "Wednesday 15th May"
From: Richard Moorhouse
Date: 23 April 2013 11:58:49 BST
To:
Subject: Songs of Praise
Dear All
As promised, here is the schedule I've been sent by the production company.
Wednesday 15th May
17.00-18.00 Cathedral Choir rehearsal for our items
18.30 Preparation time (into robes, seating etc)
19.30 Record hymns with congregation, organ and brass.
22.00 Wrap.
Thursday 16th May
12.45 Arrival and preparation.
13.45 - 14.45 Record with Elin Manahan Thomas, strings and piano.
14.45 - 15.15 BREAK
15.15 - 16.00 Choir item record
16.00-18.00 Break
18.00 Arrive for evening hymn record session.
19.30 Record hymns with congregation and organ.
22.00 Wrap
There seems to be a lot of time between us being asked to arrive and the evening sessions starting.
I will find out what this is for and whether it can be reduced.
I also plan to rehearse our choir items tonight and on Tuesday 7th May.
Thank you for agreeing to take part.
With best wishes
Richard
Let's now see how many more contributions are forthcoming.
Copy all this to the Editor of Private Eye at strobes@private-eye.co.uk
DeleteThere is a toxic sandwich that exists in this diocese. At the bottom there are the pew-sitters who are the main source of cash for the CinW, and because of falling numbers (largely as a result of the failed leadership of the church) they are expected each year to pay more cash. On top there is the bishop and his senior management team who take the cash from the pew-sitters and decide how it is spent. (There are also allegations that there is an unaudited, secret, episcopal discretionary fund fed from collections taken, again from the pew-sitters, at Confirmations and Ordinations.) In the middle of this sandwich are the clergy. They need the pew-sitters to pay constantly into the CinW to fund their salaries, housing, expenses and pensions. But why should hard earned pew-sitter cash be used to pay for legal settlements resulting from His Darkness’ dysfunctional management style? Cash that was given to fund our clergy is reportedly being poured away to resolve blunders committed by His Darkness. The clergy need to ask how much longer can this go on, and at what point will in it impact on their pension pot? It is time that the clergy took responsibility for the way their peoples’ money is being squandered by His Darkness. Clergy Chapters should meet in emergency session and call for some accountability for what is being done by the senior management team. It may help to concentrate the mind if they appreciated that we as pew-sitters pay their salaries and pensions from the money we have earned from our own labours.
DeleteUrban, your references and information are most convincing, but one question if I May?
DeleteWhat is the evidence that the statement was issued by Anna Morrell and not Janet Henderson?
Go Compare!, charities should be transparent. Anyone who has genuine cause for concern can complain under the procedure here:
Deletehttp://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/how-to-complain/complain-about-a-charity/
AncientBriton, as I understand the current situation to be, none of the Church in Wales Cathedrals are charities. The RB has been making applications for them to become so.
DeleteIf you visit the Charities commission website, at
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/
search for charities, enter Llandaff Cathedral, press Return, the information you will receive is
Charities matching your search ...
Your search has found 3 charities which are shown below.
Click on the link provided to view a charity’s details.
Otherwise click New Search to try again or Refine Search for more search options
Registered Number Charity name
507289 LLANDAFF CATHEDRAL CHORAL SOCIETY Registered
1103522 THE CATHEDRAL SCHOOL (LLANDAFF) LIMITED Registered
501362 THE FRIENDS OF LLANDAFF CATHEDRAL Registered
No Llandaff Cathedral as a charity in its own right.
In the past, it has been handled (fiddled) by the Diocese of Llandaff and the RB.
You can't complaint about a charity that does not yet exist.
Try the other Church in Wales Cathedrals and see what you get.
Bangor Cathedral.
DeleteYour search has found 2 charities which are shown below.
Click on the link provided to view a charity’s details.
Otherwise click New Search to try again or Refine Search for more search options
Registered Number Charity name
238514 BANGOR CATHEDRAL APPEAL FUND Removed
502723 THE FRIENDS OF BANGOR CATHEDRAL Registered
St David's Cathedral
DeleteCharities matching your search ...
Your search has produced no results.
Click New Search to try again or Refine Search for more search options
St Asaph Cathedral
DeleteCharities matching your search ...
Your search has found 1 charity.
Click on the link provided to view the charity's details.
Otherwise click New Search to try again or Refine Search for more search options
Registered Number Charity name
220106 FRIENDS OF ST ASAPH CATHEDRAL Registered
St Woolos Cathedral
DeleteCharities matching your search ...
Your search has found 2 charities which are shown below.
Click on the link provided to view a charity’s details.
Otherwise click New Search to try again or Refine Search for more search options
Registered Number Charity name
1133935 THE CATHEDRAL CHURCH OF ST WOOLOS, NEWPORT, PAROCHIAL CHURCH COUNCIL Registered
518396 THE FRIENDS OF ST WOOLOS CATHEDRAL Registered
My apologies 1662 and indeed to Go Compare and to other readers. I wrongly assumed that Cathedrals would be subject to the same provisions as larger parishes -
Deletehttp://www.churchinwales.org.uk/structure/representative-body/finance/parish-accounting/
No need to apologise AncientBriton, as you can see, none of the Welsh Cathedrals are charities as yet. Llandaff Cathedral is a parish church as well as a Cathedral.
DeleteAs is St Woolos in Newport 1662 which from your investigations is registered. All very interesting but I seem to have introduced an unnecessary diversion.
DeleteA little digging in the link you suggested 1662 led to this snippet which may be of interest to others:
Delete"f) Bishop's Mission Fund
Donations are made to this fund primarily from collections taken at induction and confirmation services, and Gift Aid is claimed where appropriate. All monies received are paid over to the Bishop to be used at his discretion."
From [page 18] http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends52/0000242452_AC_20121231_E_C.pdf
Urban, another obvious example of misleading press statements is that of 9th May 2013,
Deletehttp://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dean-of-llandaff-cathedral-quits-3567892
In a statement, the Church in Wales said: "The Archbishop of Wales has, with enormous sadness, accepted the resignation with immediate effect of the Very Reverend Janet Henderson as Dean of Llandaff."
As this year's Annual report now shows, this was a lie as Janet Henderson had resigned on 25th April 2013.
It looks like the misleading press statement was designed to cover up the lies His ++Darkness told to the Easter Vestry meeting on 30th April 2013, that "The Archbishop welcomed everyone to the meeting explaining that Dean Janet Henderson had requested he chaired in her absence."
Janet had resigned 5 days before the meeting took place, so the press statement was obviously a second lie to cover up the first lie.
This is all a distraction from the issue of alleged unaudited episcopal discretionary/slush fund. Does it exit? Where does the money come from? Who manages it? What are the funds used for? Why is it kept secret from the pew-sitters?
ReplyDeleteGo Compare, following the link suggested by 1662 I found accounts from 2008 to 2012 under
ReplyDelete242452 - THE LLANDAFF DIOCESAN BOARD OF FINANCE
Using the link as an example the 'Bishops mission Fund' shows Income Resources £15,196 and the Outgoings (£15,196). I hope that helps.
And what was the £15,196 used for? Planning permission and architect's fees for a proposed eco home?
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify Knight on the Green, the £15,196 referred only to 2012. The five years from 2008 to 2012 totaled £58,632.
DeleteThe explanatory note states "Donations are made to this fund primarily from collections taken at induction and confirmation services, and Gift Aid is claimed where appropriate. All monies received are paid over to the Bishop to be used at his discretion".
If Gift Aid is added the figure will be more. I have found no indication how the Bishop uses his discretion.
£58.6k slush fund? That is a staggering large amount of unaccounted for cash for His Darkness to be playing with. That definitely needs to be looked into by Private Eye strobes@private-eye.co.uk
DeleteAncientBriton, I think you've identified the Bishop's "Mission Fund" on page 19.
ReplyDeleteBut if you look on page 21, under the heading Clergy expenses there is another fund called "Bishop's discretionary Fund" with a further sum of £19,095. There is no explanation that I can find of how it is funded or how it is spent.
From 2005 to 2012 ++Barry spent a grand total of £208,185 at his "discretion".
I believe the people of the diocese of Llandaff have the right to an explanation for how this vast sum of money was spent and ++Barry should publish an itemised list to account for every £.
Correct 1662. The Bishops Mission Fund I take to be funded under the Note "Donations are made to this fund primarily from collections taken at induction and confirmation services, and Gift Aid is claimed where appropriate. All monies received are paid over to the Bishop to be used at his discretion."
DeleteUnder "6. CHARITABLE ACTIVITIES: SUPPORT FOR MINISTRY" another item "Bishop's discretionary fund" appears as "Clergy expenses". Over the period 2008 to 2012 I calculated the sum of £93,629. I see the same figure of £19,095 for 2012 and 2011 but I have not found any clarification of where the money comes from or how it supports ministry.
Discretion? Um, that's a novel concept for His Darkness. I can't help but seeing the irony of a prelate criticising bankers for their bonuses and yet he sits with his snout in a private, unaudited £208,156 slush fund.
DeleteAllegedly 1549. It would be interesting to know where the £208,156 figure comes from and how the money is spent. There may be a rational explanation. My understanding is that such funds have been abandoned in the Church of England to avoid situations such as this.
DeleteAncientBriton, the figure of £208,156 is the sum of all monies listed in the Diocesan accounts from 2005 to 2012 under the headings 'Bishop's Mission Fund' and then either 'Bishop's discretionary fund and hardship fund' or just 'Bishop's discretionary fund'. The words 'and hardship fund' disappeared after the 2006 accounts.
DeleteMission Fund Discretionary Fund Total
2005 £ 6,488 £ 11,985 £ 18,473
2006 £ 3,911 £ 12,202 £ 16,113
2007 £ 3,791 £ 17,556 £ 21,347
2008 £ 6,077 £ 18,083 £ 24,160
2009 £12,976 £ 18,627 £ 31,603
2010 £12,922 £ 18,720 £ 31,642
2011 £11,461 £ 19,095 £ 30,556
2012 £15,196 £ 19,095 £ 34,291
Add the lot up and assuming my arithmetic is correct ++Bazza's 'discretionary'spending over 8 years totals £208,185.
I wonder what this year's accounts will reveal.
It looks as though the bad news for His ++Darkness continues.
DeleteIn his article of 11 September 2013, Martin Shipton identified that "The Church in Wales as a whole had an operating deficit last year of £518,000, despite earning £12.1m from stock exchange investments and £3.7m from property."
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/worshippers-asked-increase-donations-amid-5898529
According to the latest accounts filed with the Charity Commission, the situation goes from bad to worse.
Go to http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/ and then type in charity number 1142813 for the RB/Church in Wales.
Nice little pie charts and brief explanations state
Income £19,019,000 Spending £19,878,000
A defecit up from £518k to £859k, an increase of £341k (60%).
Ancient Briton, I am the long-serving journalist at Media Wales (Western Mail, WalesOnline etc) and husband of the Archbishop's Media Officer mentioned by "Llandaff Pelican" on April 28 at 10.46am.
ReplyDeleteThe allegation is malicious nonsense.
Please stop writing and publishing lies and libellous comments about myself and my wife.
Please kill such comments from your blog and do not repeat the defamation.
Thank you.
Peter Morrell
Thank you for your clarification Peter. I am happy to accept your assurance that the claim is incorrect and have deleted the comment as requested. Commentators please take note.
ReplyDeleteThank you
ReplyDeletePeter
Peter, the above comments resulted from an entry following reports from two of your WalesOnline journalists on 24 April, the first of which carried the headline "Former Llandaff Cathedral choir members question £4,000 payment to former Dean". You may have noted the considerable concern expressed by commentators about the handling of much larger sums at a time when church members are constantly pressed to increase their giving. To relieve the frustration of those concerned, is this an area your people could explore to ensure that these suspicions are unfounded
ReplyDeleteTwo quick points:
ReplyDelete1) I work as a night production manager... I am not very influential.
2) I have no desire to engage in further conversation on a blog where anonymity is the norm and therefore unfounded allegations are rife and where anonymous contributors are permitted to call for my wife to be sacked!
Dear Peter,
ReplyDeleteplease can you clarify the statement made in Wales on line that the 'Easter offering was abolished in the Diocese of Llandaff in 2012.'
This issue has never been debated at a Diocesan conference, and instructions have not been sent to clergy and treasurers that the Easter offering should no longer be paid. How was this decision made; how could it have been made without reference to the rest of the Church in Wales?
Please read "two quick points" above
ReplyDeletePeter: I am not calling for your wife to be sacked, and I too deplore unfounded allegations.
DeleteI am merely asking for you to clarify a point. As you are married to Anna, you are in a good place to provide the clarification.
There may be some confusion here because of the delay in posting some comments.
DeletePeter Morrell has made his position clear. Whether readers agree with his conclusions or not his decision must be respected. Thanks.
Peter, you refer to "unfounded allegations".
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that unfounded allegations have no place here and it is only right and proper that you should defend yourself.
But what about the press statement published by The Western Mail on 25th April 2013 and the deceits identified (and supported with independent evidence) on this thread by 'Urban' on May 2, 2014 at 9:04 PM?
To appear in print on 25th April one assumes it was sent to the journalist the day before at the latest.
Who wrote that press statement?
Who carried out due diligence to check its content was accurate?
Who signed it off?
Who sent that press statement to The Western Mail and when?
How is it possible for a three sentence press statement to contain three lies and the Archbishop's Press Officer not to know about them?
What is the significance of Janet Henderson resigning later the same day?
As Peter Morrell has highlighted my post as the 'anonymous' source of 'unfounded allegations' about his wife, perhaps I might be allowed to say that I was - and still am - highlighting a fact stated by the findings of the Press Complaints Commission and conversations I have had with journalists who know they have been lied to. For example, what did Anna Morrell tell Martin Shipton when he put it to her that two figures in the 2008/09 Church in Wales accounts were the pay-offs for Carl Cooper and Mandy Williams-Potter? I think it is regrettable that the bullying tactics of Byzantine Barry have been employed here in an attempt to have legitimate concerns removed (echoes of Llandaffchester Chronicles...?). As an employee of the Church in Wales (whose post is funded by mugs like me who put money on the collection every Sunday) Anna Morrell's actions are a cause for legitimate concern and, if what I am saying is unfounded or untrue, need to be investigated. This is how Anna Morrell will be completely exonerated - not by getting her husband to make thinly veiled threats of legal action. In view of this, I will pass what evidence I have to the BBC and to John Shirley, the Provincial Secretary of the Church in Wales.
ReplyDelete