tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post6117909949925716520..comments2024-03-28T09:17:03.940+00:00Comments on AncientBriton: Church in Wales to embrace polygamy next?AncientBritonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12357913998344777403noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-56246511789203014182015-05-28T10:49:20.982+01:002015-05-28T10:49:20.982+01:00http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32909444
The Methodi...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32909444<br /><br />The Methodists decide to come clean at long last.#Justsayingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-70005345997227590402015-05-22T20:52:36.669+01:002015-05-22T20:52:36.669+01:00LP, I wrote what I did because it seems to me that...LP, I wrote what I did because it seems to me that the undoing of Anglicanism is its refusal to acknowledge any authority other than its own contemporary opinion - justified by appeals to tradition and "reason" for its interpretation (or more properly revisionism) of holy scripture. <br /><br />Tradition has been around a very long time, and it is possible to find arguments and precedents for almost anything. "Reason", properly understood, is the use of our critical faculty to examine tradition and to ascertain what is orthodox and what is not. In Anglican hands it has become the supreme judge of all else, with the disastrous results which we see in the Church in Wales. <br /><br />Scripture however is fixed by Canon and unchanging from generation to generation. If we look there for our authority, rather than looking for ingenious arguments by which the plain meaning of scripture can be overturned, then we have the assurance of God's word written for our faith and for our life as the body of Christ. <br /><br />Rather than make the church conform to the world, we should always be looking to see how well the church conforms to God's word. Like the Ten Commandments, God has revealed it all for our edification. <br /><br />Reformernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-74174394632770089382015-05-21T07:51:40.186+01:002015-05-21T07:51:40.186+01:00I must say that this is thread is attracting a fai...I must say that this is thread is attracting a fair smattering of comments from the extreme fringes. I am left wondering if Reformer, with his hard-line reactions to the comments of others, is actually reading the same text as I am? Which leads me to wonder whether he is reading the same Bible as I am? But, of course, that was Blake's point with his recognition that<br /><br />The image of Christ that thou dost see<br />Is my vision's greatest enemy...<br />Both read the Bible day and night<br />But thou readst black where I read white.<br /><br />Where the things of God are concerned, I have always valued less certainty and more humility.Fascinated Outsidernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-10285237286170521152015-05-21T07:39:49.399+01:002015-05-21T07:39:49.399+01:00Why, Reformer, do you presume that I reject any pa...Why, Reformer, do you presume that I reject any part of Scripture? If you read my earlier post correctly, you will see that I was arguing for the whole of the Scriptural canon (Apocrypha and all) IN RELATION to tradition and reason. Anglicans do not treat the Bible like Muslims do the Qu'ran! You will also see that I was arguing against the selectivity of which you accuse me.Llandaff Pelicannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-69248239425284757662015-05-20T20:33:13.114+01:002015-05-20T20:33:13.114+01:00@Fred
Kindly note.
I did NOT write "the whole...@Fred<br />Kindly note.<br />I did NOT write "the whole of the clergy in South Wales". They were your words friend.<br />I wrote "the vast majority of the CinW clergy .....".<br />I can think of only two recent examples of CinW clergy standing up to the Dark Lord.<br />The letter signed by 20 plus clergy of St David's diocese demanding an investigation into Carl Cooper's extra-marital affair with his lady chaplain.<br />The recent Governing Body vote by the clergy against the confiscation of their wedding and funeral fees.<br />For the record I wholeheartedly support those clergy in both the stated examples.<br /><br />If only there were more such examples of the clergy giving ++Barry a bloody nose.<br />Please DO tell us of any others.What would Jesus say?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-5547203611268500332015-05-20T18:04:45.021+01:002015-05-20T18:04:45.021+01:00Accepting the whole of the bible is part of the ve...Accepting the whole of the bible is part of the very definition of Anglicanism. This is very different from Sola Scriptura, which is a different argument,<br /><br />So, LP, which parts of the word of God do you reject? And how does that make you different from the Abp and his fellow travellers?<br /><br /><br />Reformernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-44776090528876428232015-05-20T07:54:48.412+01:002015-05-20T07:54:48.412+01:00Dear Llandaff Pelican
Do you actually think that +...Dear Llandaff Pelican<br />Do you actually think that +Bangor will change so completely if becomes ++? I see no sign currently of "mindless biblical fundamentalism", unless of course support for women priests and bishops comes under that banner, and support for gay marriageEvangelical Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09393283334628401985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-90619845183608802322015-05-20T07:35:17.333+01:002015-05-20T07:35:17.333+01:00Reformer, I think you will find that, as Anglicans...Reformer, I think you will find that, as Anglicans, our motto is not 'Sola Scriptura' (which is a Lutheran principle). We live-out our Christian lives by recourse Scripture, of course; but also to tradition and reason. To say that 'It is a requirement to live by the whole Word of God' is okay insofar as it goes; but that cannot be the last word for Anglicans. <br /><br />Unfortunately, we have an Archbishop who has abused this fundamental theological principle, with his selective use of Scripture, his contempt for tradition as a living and developing dimension of the Church's mission, and an equally selective appeal to reason. Nonetheless, this should not give the rest of us permission to fall into some kind of mindless biblical fundamentalism. That has not been the Anglican way - and I hope it never will be (unless, of course, 'Fog' from Bangor becomes the next Archbishop - from which possibility 'Good Lord deliver us!).Llandaff Pelicannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-59536954781345366072015-05-17T22:59:28.015+01:002015-05-17T22:59:28.015+01:00St Paul's writings are just as canonical as th...St Paul's writings are just as canonical as the four gospels. Which ones do you propose to discard? How does that make you any different from our Lost Bishops?Reformernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-66977803741840768192015-05-17T16:32:04.038+01:002015-05-17T16:32:04.038+01:00Dear Old Nick- certainly S.Paul are early written ...Dear Old Nick- certainly S.Paul are early written works but this does not alter the fact that some of his writings are extreme and OTT. Or is it that in modern times selective writing is taken out of context to support the radical views of some?Simple soulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-23330224243762940642015-05-16T13:59:47.430+01:002015-05-16T13:59:47.430+01:00It is a requirement to live by the whole Word of G...It is a requirement to live by the whole Word of God, <i>including</i> the four canonical gospels, and <b>not</b> excluding the rest of the Old and New Testaments. The books of the bible are not presented to us a la carte, to pick and choose as we please. Reformernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-33445639793386489622015-05-16T03:55:25.709+01:002015-05-16T03:55:25.709+01:00It is also the case that the Letters of S. Paul ar...It is also the case that the Letters of S. Paul are our earliest written evidence for Christianity and Christian teaching.old nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-60148166530063393952015-05-16T02:35:07.621+01:002015-05-16T02:35:07.621+01:00I think 'What would Jesus say' may describ...I think 'What would Jesus say' may describe the clergy in Llandaf but I don't support that view of the whole of the clergy in South Wales. In fact in one diocese they are vociferously against ++Barry's liberal ways.Frednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-62165602465370662592015-05-15T22:06:32.862+01:002015-05-15T22:06:32.862+01:00It is entirely acceptable to live by the canonical...It is entirely acceptable to live by the canonical Gospels, in fact it is a requirement. Simple soulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-54100980548605267932015-05-15T20:09:27.339+01:002015-05-15T20:09:27.339+01:00@WwJs
Your point about the Roman Catholic church i...@WwJs<br />Your point about the Roman Catholic church is well made and that organisation is by no means the only one to have put saving "face" or their reputation before the welfare of vulnerable people and the victims of their associates.<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32757978#Justsayingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-83760914592992535362015-05-15T20:01:02.058+01:002015-05-15T20:01:02.058+01:00Which is why the early church had his letters inco...Which is why the early church had his letters incorporated into the Bible in the first place.<br />The Pick'n'mix approach of Barry Morgan and his cronies would be worthy of Woolworths but look what happened to them!What would Jesus say?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-15412177452690743042015-05-15T18:14:13.112+01:002015-05-15T18:14:13.112+01:00St Paul is the principal architect of the theology...St Paul is the principal architect of the theology of the new Christian community as it emerges from its Jewish roots into the gentile world. His writings form part of the accepted canon of scripture, with the full authority of the Church, expressed in General Councils and in many local synods in the following centuries. They can not be dispensed with as a matter of personal preference. Nor is there any rational basis for setting up Jesus and Paul in opposition to one another. Paul - one of the outstanding Jewish theologians of his day - was called by Jesus to be an apostle and to teach his church. There are many hard sayings in the words of Jesus, who calls sinners to repentance first if they wish to receive the blessings of forgiveness. Reformernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-2975862420940741772015-05-15T16:03:46.792+01:002015-05-15T16:03:46.792+01:00@ Reformer. I am a little wary of Pauline Christia...@ Reformer. I am a little wary of Pauline Christianity : St Paul is very authoritarian and sensorious. I am a follower of Jesus Christ,the Son of God ,whom I see as compassionate through the Love of his Father, who is Love.Simple soulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-75743140587788301972015-05-15T15:21:18.148+01:002015-05-15T15:21:18.148+01:00What would Jesus say? I wouldn't be so foolish...What would Jesus say? I wouldn't be so foolish or arrogant to claim to know. But I imagine he would probably weep.Fascinated Outsidernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-11550681476780387312015-05-15T13:11:26.791+01:002015-05-15T13:11:26.791+01:00How would anyone know that God truly calls any gay...How would anyone know that God truly calls any gay people to serve as priests any more than one might know if God truly calls heterosexual people to serve as priests?<br /><br />Is it not every bit as possible they chose to join male only vacations/communities that would put them into a position of trust and regular contact with choir boys, altar boys, servers, acolytes, monks, friars and other men in Holy orders for entirely their own personal reasons?<br /><br />It was a bit rich him for Basil Hume to proclaim "You cannot avoid the evidence".<br />The Roman Catholic Church in the USA, Ireland and elsewhere has deliberately chosen to "avoid the evidence" of systematic physical and sexual abuse (heterosexual and homosexual) perpetrated by priests and nuns on children and adults alike over many decades.<br /><br />The vast majority of the CinW clergy toady, pander, scrape and bow to Barry Morgan's secular liberal anything goes dictats so there's precious little genuine "priestly leadership" to be found in south Wales regardless.<br />How long will it be before Barry has Diocesan conferences discussing proposals to support the lifestyle choices and demands of a societal minority to marry their horses, dogs, goats, sheep or goldfish?What would Jesus say?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-4109880320926637262015-05-15T08:11:39.517+01:002015-05-15T08:11:39.517+01:00Given that Polygamy is still practiced by some Ang...Given that Polygamy is still practiced by some Anglicans in the fundamentalist province of Nigeria (a fact openly admitted by the new Secretary General of the ACC) Wales would hardly be breaking new ground! Similarly, remove all the gay clergy in the Diocese of Llandaff at a stroke and there would be no priestly leadership in some of the most socially unpromising communities in South Wales. As the late Cardinal Hume memorably reminded some Catholic purists a year before his untimely death, 'You cannot avoid the evidence: God seems to have a habit of calling gay people to serve as priests.'Llandaff Pelicannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-83137426636645793192015-05-15T01:08:41.312+01:002015-05-15T01:08:41.312+01:00Homosexual sexual activity was characteristic of t...Homosexual sexual activity was characteristic of the pagan nations surrounding Israel, and was one of the reasons why the people of Israel were constantly urged to remain a holy people, set apart from their neighbours. In decadent Greek and Roman society many rich men had catamites. It is precisely this against which St Paul warns so firmly in Romans 1: <br /><br /><i>18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honour him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.<br /><br />24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonouring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.<br /><br />26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonourable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. </i><br /><br />It appears that <i>Romans 1</i> has been bowdlerised from the edition of the bible consulted by many church leaders, particularly among the Church in Wales leadership. <br /><br />Reformernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-14486926777084794482015-05-14T21:17:08.916+01:002015-05-14T21:17:08.916+01:00It's no different in the Ordinariate:
http:/...It's no different in the Ordinariate: <br /><br />http://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/579/0/ordinariate-priest-suspended-after-revelations-of-civil-partnership LeClerqnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-26870602197617595872015-05-14T20:14:23.637+01:002015-05-14T20:14:23.637+01:00Homosexuality predates Christianity and is certain...<br /><br />Homosexuality predates Christianity and is certainly recorded in Ancient Greece.<br /><br />I cannot agree with the inference that all same- sex attraction is depraved and immoral and I do not agree that the 'goal' in all same-sex relationships is solely or primarily sexual satisfaction : I have no doubt there are genuine loving relationships within same sex partnerships.<br /> There will be a 'recreational element' in some same-sex involvement ,just as exists by virtue of the culture of today ,in heterosexual 'loose' friendships. It would be naive to think that there are not debased activities present and practiced in heterosexual relationships and this is not excluding marriages.<br /> Same sex attraction is not totally understood and it is wrong the sweep everyone in this category with the same brush.Simple soulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4019954714374602353.post-13653916900104510502015-05-14T16:12:30.355+01:002015-05-14T16:12:30.355+01:00We all know that polygamy is extant in the Muslim ...We all know that polygamy is extant in the Muslim community - they simply don't bother with secular oversight but carry on within the community context.<br />I always thought that "homosexual" referred to sexual attraction, not love. For government ministers or CiW bishops to refer to love in a gay marriage context is therefore mis-leading.<br />I love my sister and my Mum, but I don't want to marry them any more than my brother, whom I also love. In response to a recent questionnaire "are you attracted sexually to men or women or both" I responded "none of the above - I am happily married (to a woman!)"Evangelical Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09393283334628401985noreply@blogger.com